68 réponses à ce sujet

[Angedechu]

(Note here than I'm French-Canadian, not French, so I don't especially like France)

 

To be honest, as much as Bioware built a credible Thedas, as much Orlais is a bit, uh, caricactural at times (especially with the accent, oh god, the accent...)

 

That the Orlesians are depicted as badass despite being, well, foppish, is commendable, but the focus on fashion and masks for court life is a bit exagerrate for something set in the middle ages. That would come out as (unsublte) caricature for Louis XIV reign, not Saint Louis...

[Cyonan]

The game isn't meant to mirror the middle ages. It's just kind of loosely based on it.

 

Also, why do the French Canadians hate France?

[Angedechu]

They have French names, french accents and french town names. It's a bit thick at times.

[Cyonan]

They have French names, french accents and french town names. It's a bit thick at times.

 

Plenty of things in entertainment have English names, English accents, and English town names too. That doesn't mean they need to be exactly like England.

 

The thing is that Orlais isn't France, nor is it Quebec. It's inspired from it, but it's not meant to be a carbon copy of it.

[Felya87]

Funny. I found Orlais just as much from french inspiration than from Venice and Reinassance. By the way, I find it a good thing having Ferelden more medievalish feeling, and Orlais more Reinassance feeling. It even give much more meaning to why the Orlesian find Fereldian less civilized, or at least more savage, and differentiate the two nations culture.

 

By the way, I can't see why is this a problem in the first place. Orlais was of Franch ispiration already in DAO, where Leliana already described the strange orlesian fashion (even more strange for the more pratical Fereldian) and she had a French accent. Nothing new here.

[aoibhealfae]

Bioware did it for Jade Empire. Its called cultural appropriation. But I don't really think Orlais accent as french but an exaggerated version of it. Dr Michel sounds a lot better though.

[Ashen Nedra]

Bioware did it for Jade Empire. Its called cultural appropriation. But I don't really think Orlais accent as french but an exaggerated version of it. Dr Michel sounds a lot better though.

Take it from a French person having worked in English with native speakers and other French persons for most of my career (me), the Orlesian accent is very painful to hear in the game. Nobody sounds like that, whatever their level of spoken English.

 

It's ridiculous and sounds exactly like all attempts to caricature the French accent in cheap NA fiction.

 

Last example that comes to mind is the horrible and cheesy movie Elizabeth, starring Cate Blanchett, that I had the displeasure to watch yesterday.

 

French actors  -who have been working in Hollywood and have lived in the US- sounds like cartoon versions of French villains in this movie

 

DAI is on the same level.The intent is to ridicule (French word, btw) the French accent to emphasize Orlaisians as villains

 

On the other hand, Leliana has a believable cultured French accent and is actually voiced by a French person since DAO, I think. Why is she the only Orlesian with a 'correct' French accent in DAI?

 

Because she's not supposed to look ridiculous to the average teenage NA player, that's why. She's supposed to be badass and sexy.

 

Cheap, Bioware, cheap...

[Lebanese Dude]

Take it from a French person having worked in English with native speakers and other French persons for most of my career (me), the Orlesian accent is very painful to hear in the game. Nobody sounds like that, whatever their level of spoken English.

 

It's ridiculous and sounds exactly like all attempts to caricature the French accent in cheap NA fiction.

 

Cheap, Bioware, cheap...

 

Overreaction much? It's a made-up accent in a fictional universe. It can be as caricature-ish as it wants to be.

 

I mean...have you heard the Antivans?

Even Fereldan/Free March English accents are sometimes caricatured. Have you heard how Vivienne speaks? It's a caricatured posh English accent if I've ever heard one.

 

The Orlesians are only depicted as villains because you played Fereldan PCs who have a natural animosity with them. The Orlesians themselves also mock the Fereldan language and customs.

 

They're still the most powerful nation on Thedas. Are you claiming that the most powerful nation on Thedas is the underdog because Fereldans make fun of the way they talk?

 

I also disagree with what you said about DAI. The accents are relatively tame compared to those in DA2. I loved Giselle's speech, as well as Celene's. Gaspard's was smexy.

 

DAO didn't even have many Orlesians to speak of. There was Riordan who had a "regular' French accent. There was also Isolde who had a "regular" French accent when she wasn't being hysterical (after solving the Connor crisis). Leliana goes without saying. 

 

Only Marjolaine had caricature'd speech.

[Ashen Nedra]

 

Overreaction much? It's a made-up accent in a fictional universe. It can be as caricature-ish as it wants to be.

 

I mean...have you heard the Antivans?

Even Fereldan/Free March English accents are sometimes caricatured. Have you heard how Vivienne speaks? It's a caricatured posh English accent if I've ever heard one.

 

The Orlesians are only depicted as villains because you played Fereldan PCs who have a natural animosity with them. The Orlesians themselves also mock the Fereldan language and customs.

 

They're still the most powerful nation on Thedas. Are you claiming that the most powerful nation on Thedas is the underdog because Fereldans make fun of the way they talk?

 

I also disagree with what you said about DAI. The accents are relatively tame compared to those in DA2. I loved Giselle's speech, as well as Celene's. Gaspard's was smexy.

 

DAO didn't even have many Orlesians to speak of. There was Riordan who had a "regular' French accent. There was also Isolde who had a "regular" French accent when she wasn't being hysterical (after solving the Connor crisis). Leliana goes without saying. 

 

Only Marjolaine had caricature'd speech.

Agreed in DAO the worse caricatured speech was a villain, Marjolaine. Isolde's accent was pretty heavy, you know, not regular. I would say hers should be the limit before stooping to cartoon levels.

 

In DAI everybody in Orlais except Leliana and Celene (got to take an empress a little seriously) have a cartoon-level of caricatured accent. So, a decrease in quality and refinement imho.

 

But I'm not offended or anything. French, like Russians and Italians for mobsters have been used to characterize strange foreigners with strange ways, and often villains, in the English speaking world since forever.

 

It's not very subtle and appeal to base 'nationalism' and a feeling of superiority - which is kind of well-funded in the modern world, after all here I am - a French person consuming NA entertainment products and talking about them in English on an English speaking forum- towards other cultures imho, but I won't start an Internet protest other that. It only made parts of the game in Orlais less pleasant for me.

 

One could also ask why have strong foreign accents in a game anyway? The English speaking world is so diverse in its various strong accents (Welsh, Scottish, East Coast American English, West Coast, upper-class Brit English, Cockney, Texas accent, Indian accents) that you can find a way to express exoticism and diversity without resorting to foreign accents.

 

The likely explanation is that a foreign accent is supposed to be an audio clue to the players that the fictional world is somewhat reminiscent of the country whose accent is used, don't you think?

 

And Giselle's accent is cringeworthy to my French ears, to be honest. Even Jacques-Yves Cousteau, which is sometimes used in France to characterize a bad French accent in spoken English had a Yale accent compared to that.

 

I have no doubt that an Italian or Spanish person might say the same about Zevran or Josephine.

[Lebanese Dude]

*shrug*

 

I suppose it boils down to what you believe is the proper way to speak French.

 

When I visited Paris, despite speaking French relatively fluently, I received some weird looks from people whenever I said anything.

[Akrabra]

I do remember people complaining about the main character in the Pixar movie Brave. Her Scottish accent was so fake, blah blah. And the voice actress is from Scotland. Goes to show what people know about others accents and how we express ourself in different languages. 

 

I do find the Orlesian accents abit over the top, but they do add this upperclass i am better than you feel, which i enjoy. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I do remember people complaining about the main character in the Pixar movie Brave. Her Scottish accent was so fake, blah blah. And the voice actress is from Scotland. Goes to show what people know about others accents and how we express ourself in different languages.

I do find the Orlesian accents abit over the top, but they do add this upperclass i am better than you feel, which i enjoy.

The voice actors in Brave probably had to tone down their accents to be more widely comprehensible. That can sometimes make them sound fake.

And people who live in the presence of different accents through their lives often end up with strange amalgams. Karen Gillan, for example (originally from Inverness, grew up in Ireland). For this reason, I find it odd that Leliana's vooce actor is held up as the only true French accent in the game, as her accent is very English (she has lived in London for many years).

True French accents can be awfully thick. I can think of prominent examples from sport like Romain Grosjean, or Éric Boullier, or Charles Caudrelier.

[Fredward]

I remember people bitching about how 'fake' Leliana's accent was and it turned out the VA actually is French. I haven't heard enough French speaking people to have an opinion on the accents in game but I'd make reeeaaallllyyy sure that the VAs were faking it before I'd point any fingers.

 

As for the rest... build a bridge. People need to realize that just because fantasy or fiction takes ELEMENTS from the real world does not mean they have to be beholden to it in any way shape or form. Orlais is not France. Thedas isn't even necessarily medieval.

[andy6915]

I do remember people complaining about the main character in the Pixar movie Brave. Her Scottish accent was so fake, blah blah. And the voice actress is from Scotland. Goes to show what people know about others accents and how we express ourself in different languages. 

 

I do find the Orlesian accents abit over the top, but they do add this upperclass i am better than you feel, which i enjoy. 

 

Hell, that's the case for Leliana too. People complained about how "fake" her accent was... Without realizing she actually IS FRENCH. The "real life is unrealistic" trope in action, where fiction has given people people a false idea about what something should sound like or look like so the real thing is the thing that feels fake to them. Gotta love the irony of calling a French woman's French accent fake, and you gotta love how stupid it makes them look.

[exboomer]

Take it from a French person having worked in English with native speakers and other French persons for most of my career (me), the Orlesian accent is very painful to hear in the game. Nobody sounds like that, whatever their level of spoken English.

 

It's ridiculous and sounds exactly like all attempts to caricature the French accent in cheap NA fiction.

 

Last example that comes to mind is the horrible and cheesy movie Elizabeth, starring Cate Blanchett, that I had the displeasure to watch yesterday.

 

French actors  -who have been working in Hollywood and have lived in the US- sounds like cartoon versions of French villains in this movie

 

DAI is on the same level.The intent is to ridicule (French word, btw) the French accent to emphasize Orlaisians as villains

 

On the other hand, Leliana has a believable cultured French accent and is actually voiced by a French person since DAO, I think. Why is she the only Orlesian with a 'correct' French accent in DAI?

 

Because she's not supposed to look ridiculous to the average teenage NA player, that's why. She's supposed to be badass and sexy.

 

Cheap, Bioware, cheap...

You do know this is a fantasy game right? If you are so easily offended maybe you shouldn't play it. You're coming off as snobbish IMO.

[Kantr]

I'd say the Madame De Fer accent was rather spot on

[Hunter111]

The portrayal of a lot of crap is off for a medieval time period. If you're that worried about historical veracity as compared with the
Middle Ages, Tjeres a lot more stuff to worry about than Orlesian masks and silly accents.

[Felya87]

Eh. I always find hilarious when Zevran and Josie are said to have Italian accent. I'm Italian, and I really can't see any "italianity" in their voices. Slightly spanish? maybe. But not Italian. (mostly because Italian doesn't have a "standard" accent. Every region have its own.)

[Giantdeathrobot]

Leliana has fairly normal French accent. Most of the oher Orlesians have caricatural accents, truth be told. Gaspard and Celene aren't so bad, but the run-of-the-mill Orlesian fops? Yeah, nobody speaks like that. It's about the equivalent of having every English accented people speak like a caricatural gentlemen type, or a lower-class lad chewing on cockney.

[Lebanese Dude]

Leliana has fairly normal French accent. Most of the oher Orlesians have caricatural accents, truth be told. Gaspard and Celene aren't so bad, but the run-of-the-mill Orlesian fops? Yeah, nobody speaks like that. It's about the equivalent of having every English accented people speak like a caricatural gentlemen type, or a lower-class lad chewing on cockney.

 

Have you heard the Ferelden peasants?

[Alan Drifter13]

Orlais is more based in the Reanissance than the middle-ages, it seems obvious and very intentional.

[Lebanese Dude]

Orlais is more based in the Reanissance than the middle-ages, it seems obvious and very intentional.

 

Yep. Don't have a PhD in History but from what I know it seems that:

 

Ferelden -> Medieval Britain

 

Orlais ->  Late Renaissance France

 

Tevinter -> Byzantine Empire

 

Antiva -> Early Renaissance Spain

 

Nevarra -> Renaissance Russia / Ancient Egypt hybrid

 

Avvars -> Germanic/Gallic/Britannic hybrid

 

etc..

[pdusen]

One could also ask why have strong foreign accents in a game anyway? The English speaking world is so diverse in its various strong accents (Welsh, Scottish, East Coast American English, West Coast, upper-class Brit English, Cockney, Texas accent, Indian accents) that you can find a way to express exoticism and diversity without resorting to foreign accents.

 

Actually, what you're suggesting would be even less plausible. By all rights, most of the nations in Thedas should be speaking totally different languages (or distantly related at best), based on their history and separate tribal origins.

 

As it is, we settle for thick accents in Orlais and a few other places, for the sake of gameplay.

[NRieh]

 

Nevarra -> Renaissance Russia / Ancient Egypt hybrid

An interesting one. But I think that Anderfells looks much more 'Russian' to me (eg known to be a bit extreme, live in cold, have a distinctive accent mentioned). Though, it might also fit Germany or some parts of eastern Europe.

[Ashen Nedra]

The voice actors in Brave probably had to tone down their accents to be more widely comprehensible. That can sometimes make them sound fake.

And people who live in the presence of different accents through their lives often end up with strange amalgams. Karen Gillan, for example (originally from Inverness, grew up in Ireland). For this reason, I find it odd that Leliana's vooce actor is held up as the only true French accent in the game, as her accent is very English (she has lived in London for many years).

True French accents can be awfully thick. I can think of prominent examples from sport like Romain Grosjean, or Éric Boullier, or Charles Caudrelier.

I'm French - French is my mother tongue- and I speak English in business among other people from different origins (these days not so much, but I actually did it).  And I was shocked by the silliness of the French accents in Orlais.

 

I'm telling you from experience those are fake French accents made by non-French actors, i.e. caricature accents.

 

Leliana's voice actor sounds like a French person who speaks English well. It does exist, you know