11 réponses à ce sujet

[Domiel Angelus]

I was recently replaying Mass Effect, yes I know its a Dragon Age forum and I'll get to the point, and I got to the point where you either engage in coitus with the blueberry (Liara) or you turn her down. I of course turned her down and then remembered about the broken code in the 360 version of the game.

 

Being as your hero is always Shepard through all three installments there's code cohesion that goes on, if you turn down Liara and play the same male Shepard in Mass Effect 2 Ashley becomes auto-locked as your interest later in the series. Also  there was a break in the coding that if she didn't survive Virmire then you couldn't save your awesome sauce engineering duo. They fixed the latter issue but not the earl, you will be inflicted with Ashley as your romance option earmarked from the first game. 

 

This brings me to the point, thanks to all three protagonists being unique this never becomes an issue. You're never tossed into a romance with someone. Your options may be limited based on sex or race but you're never just stuck with someone. Now I mean yes, you do have time to change it in ME2 and she will try to woo you in ME3 but still; the Warden, the Inquisitor and the Champion are all allowed to live and love as they see fit.

 

I did want to see my Warden come back as my playable hero, but it comes up with the issues that would arise when doing coding based on old data to new and how they would handle that sort of thing, I'm far happier that he's only spoken of in hushed whispers and legends. 

 

 

Side Tangent: The Dragon Age Keep isn't really a needed thing which another company proved through the use of the Cloud. Borderlands by Gearbox allows you to use your saves from Borderlands 2 in the Handsome Jack Collection by plugging them into the Cloud and downloading them. Why Bioware couldn't do that is beyond me.

[drummerchick]

...

 

Side Tangent: The Dragon Age Keep isn't really a needed thing which another company proved through the use of the Cloud. Borderlands by Gearbox allows you to use your saves from Borderlands 2 in the Handsome Jack Collection by plugging them into the Cloud and downloading them. Why Bioware couldn't do that is beyond me.

As I understand it, the 'cross-platform save files' issue was secondary to the 'faulty plot flag' issue. So, they really couldn't do what you're suggesting, because Inquisition still wouldn't accurately reflect plot points. The Keep is necessary if you want your world-state to be consistent with your previous games (buggy Keep imports notwithstanding).

[b10d1v]

Maybe it was just the blue and the neurology lead of reproduction, Liara was a keeper.  No fault if we disagree on that, purely subjective attraction.

 

I agree that Shepard was the cohesion that held the mass effect series together in a serial fashion, but in DA series the religion and oppression is a large part of the story, so using parallel paths (different protagonists) shows how this affects many people and how they dealt with it from different perspectives.

 

Drummerchick is also correct that the complexity of multiple protagonists necessitated the keep to streamline the process and minimize errors as there are fundamental differences in the games for instance healing and other skills lost in DAI.  Merging those inconsistencies is a recipe for disaster.  Borderlands has no similar inconsistency.

[Domiel Angelus]

Maybe it was just the blue and the neurology lead of reproduction, Liara was a keeper.  No fault if we disagree on that, purely subjective attraction.

 

I agree that Shepard was the cohesion that held the mass effect series together in a serial fashion, but in DA series the religion and oppression is a large part of the story, so using parallel paths (different protagonists) shows how this affects many people and how they dealt with it from different perspectives.

 

Drummerchick is also correct that the complexity of multiple protagonists necessitated the keep to streamline the process and minimize errors as there are fundamental differences in the games for instance healing and other skills lost in DAI.  Merging those inconsistencies is a recipe for disaster.  Borderlands has no similar inconsistency.

 

The cohesiveness of the series isn't what I was referring to, I meant actual code cohesion between the games itself. The game inflicts Ashley upon you in the console version of the game if Liara is turned down as the romance option. Which means if you play through Mass Effect 2 when you get to the scene where you're staring at a picture on your desk, its Ash and there isn't anything to change it. They fixed this tidbit when going through the looking glass into the third installment of the game, but still had bits of broken code that meant if Ashley wasn't the one that survived Virmire then you couldn't save Kenneth and Gabby.The latter of the two problems is fixed but they have never gone back to uncouple Shepard from Ash going into the second game. 

 

In the DA series you have no relationship chains being imported from game to game so just because your Warden did the dance with no pants doesn't mean the Champion is stuck marrying this person and so on. That's what I was going for, it was strictly about coding of the game itself. I wasn't really getting into the reasoning for seeing the world through different eyes or anything of that nature, but good on you for bringing it up.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As I understand it, the 'cross-platform save files' issue was secondary to the 'faulty plot flag' issue. So, they really couldn't do what you're suggesting, because Inquisition still wouldn't accurately reflect plot points. The Keep is necessary if you want your world-state to be consistent with your previous games (buggy Keep imports notwithstanding).

Also, the Keep removes the need for the design of each game's save files to foresee every possible relevant detail of future games. The Keep allows DAI to use details from DAO or DA2 which weren't actually in the save file (because they weren't important to those games).

If a future game hinges on yet another detail, they can add that to the Keep later.

[Kantr]

I was recently replaying Mass Effect, yes I know its a Dragon Age forum and I'll get to the point, and I got to the point where you either engage in coitus with the blueberry (Liara) or you turn her down. I of course turned her down and then remembered about the broken code in the 360 version of the game.

 

Being as your hero is always Shepard through all three installments there's code cohesion that goes on, if you turn down Liara and play the same male Shepard in Mass Effect 2 Ashley becomes auto-locked as your interest later in the series. Also  there was a break in the coding that if she didn't survive Virmire then you couldn't save your awesome sauce engineering duo. They fixed the latter issue but not the earl, you will be inflicted with Ashley as your romance option earmarked from the first game. 

 

This brings me to the point, thanks to all three protagonists being unique this never becomes an issue. You're never tossed into a romance with someone. Your options may be limited based on sex or race but you're never just stuck with someone. Now I mean yes, you do have time to change it in ME2 and she will try to woo you in ME3 but still; the Warden, the Inquisitor and the Champion are all allowed to live and love as they see fit.

 

I did want to see my Warden come back as my playable hero, but it comes up with the issues that would arise when doing coding based on old data to new and how they would handle that sort of thing, I'm far happier that he's only spoken of in hushed whispers and legends. 

 

 

Side Tangent: The Dragon Age Keep isn't really a needed thing which another company proved through the use of the Cloud. Borderlands by Gearbox allows you to use your saves from Borderlands 2 in the Handsome Jack Collection by plugging them into the Cloud and downloading them. Why Bioware couldn't do that is beyond me.

The cloud already exists for saved game on xbox,pc and I assume the playstation. This is awhat you did in game transfer, without the messy missing of plot flags and no need to import saves from 3 games for the fourth in the series to reference something

[Dai Grepher]

I disagree. The Hero would be perfectly capable of loving whoever, even if one romance is locked in during a previous game.

 

All you would have to do is change the storyline in the Keep, or replay the Hero from before the romance was initiated onward.

 

You're also forgetting the main benefit of having only one protagonist. The opportunity for the relationship from the first game to grow stronger. With three separate protagonists, you only get one game's worth of romance for each character. With one protagonist, you get three games' worth of romance for that character.

[Domiel Angelus]

I disagree. The Hero would be perfectly capable of loving whoever, even if one romance is locked in during a previous game.

 

All you would have to do is change the storyline in the Keep, or replay the Hero from before the romance was initiated onward.

 

You're also forgetting the main benefit of having only one protagonist. The opportunity for the relationship from the first game to grow stronger. With three separate protagonists, you only get one game's worth of romance for each character. With one protagonist, you get three games' worth of romance for that character.

 

That's another tally in the "why the keep is bunk" set of answers. Your first answer was change it in the Keep, a feature we didn't have for the previous two titles. In response to your second answer, its not nearly that simple in the first or second game in the series as the seeds of romance must be planted very soon and even leading someone astray could ruin the romance with your intended. You don't usually get that "I'm out" option they built into all romances in DAI.

 

The biggest issue I had here is the coding that inflicts her upon you, pretty much as revenge for not picking 'dealers choice'. Its pretty much just so they can guilt you slightly over the romance you may be 'ruining'. 

 

Also based on the fact that I played all three ME games in addition to the DA titles that last section doesn't work either. They effectively used the second game in the series to give you a relationship wipe into the third game as you have to start from scratch with any love interest in the third game in the series. I have tried the games both by staying true through all three titles to a given person, and by choosing a different romance in the sequel only to go back in the third game and nothing changes. So you can toss that three games worth of romance off a cliff. You only see Ashley or Kaiden for only a few moments in the second game and Liara is all but missing until you see her for 2 minutes in a mission and her DLC, so the romance gets no time to bloom in the sequel anyhow. 

[M_Helder]

Upon reading the title I thought it was a GTA V thread.

[Sartoz]

 Big Snip

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Side Tangent: The Dragon Age Keep isn't really a needed thing which another company proved through the use of the Cloud. Borderlands by Gearbox allows you to use your saves from Borderlands 2 in the Handsome Jack Collection by plugging them into the Cloud and downloading them. Why Bioware couldn't do that is beyond me.

 

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Game design for the previous two DA games failed to anticipate the need to control and properly track players'  game decision tree. They did try to use the saved games but were unable to properly import them with the correct player's decisions. Simply put, there were just too many possible outcomes.. Pruning was the only way.  Lore became fixed in some areas and the KEEP was created as a solid "foundation" to import decisions.

 

The Cloud option was a nogo from the start.

[Lightpanda]

I played Awakenings with my Warden after romancing Alistair in Origins. If romancing in Awakening were actually a thing, I would have felt pretty scummy for chatting up Anders as my Warden. So, because for ^that reason, I'm good with three different characters too.

 

Also, we don't run into the inevitable on-screen PC character death issues by having multiple protagonists. By having the same character for 10, 20, or 30 in-game years, the likelihood of the game ending with their death is a given. I know that all the protagonists will die eventually but that event won't be the way the story HAS to end.

[In Exile]

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Game design for the previous two DA games failed to anticipate the need to control and properly track players'  game decision tree. They did try to use the saved games but were unable to properly import them with the correct player's decisions. Simply put, there were just too many possible outcomes.. Pruning was the only way.  Lore became fixed in some areas and the KEEP was created as a solid "foundation" to import decisions.

 

The Cloud option was a nogo from the start.

 

It's a cross platform issue, and it avoids the headache of bug-fixing all the coding issues with the old saves. This way, Bioware has a single template they need to work on. Plus, it's a win for the players. Never RP'd a character who'd allow Loghain to live? You can still see that worldstate in the Keep.