Guest_StreetMagic_*
No, The Catalyst isn't trying to trick you.
The Catalyst helps you, plain and simple, because its beaten, not just this cycle but in future cycles as well. He figures organics are now so resourceful, the cycle does not work anymore. He quits while he was ahead.
This explains why the Catalyst is more hostile on low EMS playthroughs as well.
This is all that really needs to be said.
Assume for a moment that the catalyst does not really exist, and is harbinger in disguise. Then pick refuse and know he is harbinger in disguise.
why trust harbinger?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Assume for a moment that the catalyst does not really exist, and is harbinger in disguise. Then pick refuse and know he is harbinger in disguise.
why trust harbinger?
If it's a trick, then it didn't do a good job at warding me off of Destroy. All he could do to distract me was the line "The peace will not last". Great. Lucky for me, I don't care about peace.
If it's a trick, then it didn't do a good job at warding me off of Destroy. All he could do to distract me was the line "The peace will not last". Great. Lucky for me, I don't care about peace.
look at it this way. he has to offer destroy as an option or you would know it was all BS.
look at it this way. he has to offer destroy as an option or you would know it was all BS.
Doesn't mean that the 'destroy' he offers actually *is* destroy. You've already assumed that he's lying to us - why would Harbinger-as-Catalyst offer us a genuine option to blow the Reapers to hell?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'll take it's word for it, that it's actually a valid means to "Destroy".
After playing ME1 again, it's essentially the same interface as when I killed EDI on Luna. I suppose this is how you destroy AI in Mass Effect. 
Big epic battles unnecessary. Just shoot at a box.
The catalyst is and always was a joke I could never take him seriously
Not sure if he is trying to deceive Shepard (is too stupid for that if you ask me)
the less you think about him the better
Yeah, you can't trust it. But at the end of the day, my Shepard just goes "Yeah, yeah, had enough of your bullshit. But I will take your stuff though."
Hmm. Now I'm thinking that instead of (or perhaps in addition to) the ability to refuse, we should've had the ability to just brush past it, tell it to STFU and pick our choice (destroy or control, doesn't really work with synthesis since that actually needs the bullshit to operate).
Holokid: Synthetics will always rebel against-
Shepard: Boring! *shoots tube/grabs rods*
Why can't people just take the most straightforward approach to the ending?
Its really not that complex.
Doesn't mean that the 'destroy' he offers actually *is* destroy. You've already assumed that he's lying to us - why would Harbinger-as-Catalyst offer us a genuine option to blow the Reapers to hell?
indeed. if you want to talk about endings you have to assume that all 3 endings are in a way some form of trap. I picked destroy as it is the only ending where shep survives... or is it?
Refusal to accept harbingers BS has massive appeal to me.
If you've read the so called leaked story of ME4 then we're all boned anyway.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
indeed. if you want to talk about endings you have to assume that all 3 endings are in a way some form of trap. I picked destroy as it is the only ending where shep survives... or is it?
Refusal to accept harbingers BS has massive appeal to me.
If you've read the so called leaked story of ME4 then we're all boned anyway.
I find it appeaing too, tbh..
But if this is the actual end to Shepard's story, then I have to take it at it's word. It's only cool if we get another story in this timeline.
Well, the head cannon I've adopted at this point is it's all a trap...that is everything we saw through three entire games was an elaborate simulation carried out by the Reapers to assess the psychological makeup and decision making process of organics in this cycle. Shepard is just now waking up back on the Normandy after his/her encounter with the Prothean beacon on Eden Prime. The Reapers all along were aware of the beacons and repurposed to determine which organic races had advanced far enough to warrant harvesting. Of course now not only do the Reapers know which races to target but additionally have a deep understanding of the strategies and tactics we'll deploy to counter their "arrival." Now humans and the other races need to develop an entirely new set of tactics for countering the Reaper threat.
If they ever want to do a reboot this is how you do it. Bioware you have my permission to run with this. (Lol, a guy can dream.)
Well, the head cannon I've adopted at this point is it's all a trap...that is everything we saw through three entire games was an elaborate simulation carried out by the Reapers to assess the psychological makeup and decision making process of organics in this cycle. Shepard is just now waking up back on the Normandy after his/her encounter with the Prothean beacon on Eden Prime. The Reapers all along were aware of the beacons and repurposed to determine which organic races had advanced far enough to warrant harvesting. Of course now not only do the Reapers know which races to target but additionally have a deep understanding of the strategies and tactics we'll deploy to counter their "arrival." Now humans and the other races need to develop an entirely new set of tactics for countering the Reaper threat.
If they ever want to do a reboot this is how you do it. Bioware you have my permission to run with this. (Lol, a guy can dream.)
*Throws computer out window*
Well, the head cannon I've adopted at this point is it's all a trap...that is everything we saw through three entire games was an elaborate simulation carried out by the Reapers to assess the psychological makeup and decision making process of organics in this cycle. Shepard is just now waking up back on the Normandy after his/her encounter with the Prothean beacon on Eden Prime. The Reapers all along were aware of the beacons and repurposed to determine which organic races had advanced far enough to warrant harvesting. Of course now not only do the Reapers know which races to target but additionally have a deep understanding of the strategies and tactics we'll deploy to counter their "arrival." Now humans and the other races need to develop an entirely new set of tactics for countering the Reaper threat.
If they ever want to do a reboot this is how you do it. Bioware you have my permission to run with this. (Lol, a guy can dream.)
a no win scenario. testing our ability to fight? Maybe you are on the right lines here. I don't know if i'd go as far back as eden prime tho. Remember shep is supposedly still on the citadel. How is this possible? (it's pretty impossible if you look at ME3's endings) If he's on the citadel then remember the last time a reaper was on the citadel prior to ME3.
Why can't people just take the most straightforward approach to the ending?
Its really not that complex.
Stupidity rarely is.
indeed. if you want to talk about endings you have to assume that all 3 endings are in a way some form of trap. I picked destroy as it is the only ending where shep survives... or is it?
Stupidity rarely is.
Kidding, right? I've seen plenty of complex stupidity.
IT?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
What really bothers me is the fact that the Catalyst looks like that doomed air vent kid.
Why would that be? How does it know about the kid and how Shep feels about him? Can this thing read minds?
It's the million dollar question.
It is beaten because it realizes that future cycles will only repeat the currents cycle's success and that organics are too resourceful now for the cycle to continue. That's why it parleys with you.
The refuse ending proves this, if Shep fails, the next cycle wins.
The current cycle is only successful as it is, and that isn't very much at all, because of what the previous cycle did. If the Prothean scientists had not rewritten the keepers then this cycle would have lost control of the relays in a surprise attack and have been wiped out just like every other cycle before it.
Holo-Kid is now aware of the Keeper issue and can put something else in place, maybe a robotic race that worships them like gods for example.
It was also aware of the Crucible plans well before this cycle and didn't consider them an issue then, there is really no reason it would consider them a threat after wiping out this cycle. So the next cycle may have been a threat but this one wasn't. This cycle was going to lose just like everyone before it, only holo-kid raising Shepard up changed that.
I think the fact he told you that (as opposed to pretending to be something else, like the Crucible's VI interface, Avina, or something else we would have been helpless to know better about) signals that there are bigger things to worry about than what Shepard thinks about him.
To me, it shows that he really wants Shepard to just consider its point.
Yeah, well, that part was kind of Shepard's own fault.
We know in hindsight that it was truthful but the first time I played I didn't know that, Shepard didn't know that. There really was no reason to believe a single word that it was saying. That Shepard couldn't say that was highly irksome.
What really bothers me is the fact that the Catalyst looks like that doomed air vent kid.
Why would that be? How does it know about the kid and how Shep feels about him? Can this thing read minds?
See and this why having that whole thing be in Shepard's mind would've made all the difference. And I don't mean IT.
Barely clinging on to life Shepard activates the Crucible and interfaces with it with his mind. Cue the Catalyst (who is neither a holokid nor the Reaper overlord with a serious bug up its output) guiding Shep through the choices. The Leviathan way of appearing as multiple people he knew was much cooler than what we got in the ending and could've been used far more poignantly.
What really bothers me is the fact that the Catalyst looks like that doomed air vent kid.
Why would that be? How does it know about the kid and how Shep feels about him? Can this thing read minds?
I don't think it's supposed to be the vent kid. What I suspect is that they were going for that mystic child trope and BioWare simply reused the child model asset they had on hand.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I don't think it's supposed to be the vent kid. What I suspect is that they were going for that mystic child trope and BioWare simply reused the child model asset they had on hand.
Same voice though too.
There's something screwy with it (but I don't think it has to be IT either). Also, they overlaid male and female shep echoing the same lines.
I don't think it's supposed to be the vent kid. What I suspect is that they were going for that mystic child trope and BioWare simply reused the child model asset they had on hand.
Had the Leviathan dlc been part of the main game, I would not be surprised if Bioware would have the Catalyst change bodies like what Leviathan was able to do in the dlc
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