161 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

How?

Have the game take place in a part of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave. Connect that part to the places of the trilogy via one primary relay and have that relay conveniently destroyed prior to using the Crucible. The wave doesn't reach there, the races are already there (since the region is already settled), there is room to have quarians (Idenna, Deception was confirmed faulty by the developers) and the geth - some isolated pocket of them, stuck in that part when the relay was destroyed. 

Forced to find new trade partners and resources, the races start to explore previously uncharted relays.

[ZoliCs]

Have the game take place in a part of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave. Connect that part to the places of the trilogy via one primary relay and have that relay conveniently destroyed prior to using the Crucible. The wave doesn't reach there, the races are already there (since the region is already settled), there is room to have quarians (Idenna, Deception was confirmed faulty by the developers) and the geth - some isolated pocket of them, stuck in that part when the relay was destroyed. 

Forced to find new trade partners and resources, the races start to explore previously uncharted relays.

'nuf said:

[Vazgen]

'nuf said:

So? 

First, you assume they'll address Refuse. For me it's the same as addressing Shepard's death in ME2.

Second, the Reapers will need time to get to that region of space. The game can be set when they haven't yet arrived and establish a move to another galaxy.

 

I'm not opposed to the Andromeda setting as it is, I'm opposed to having it right now without any basis for that.

[ZoliCs]

So? 

First, you assume they'll address Refuse. For me it's the same as addressing Shepard's death in ME2.

Second, the Reapers will need time to get to that region of space. The game can be set when they haven't yet arrived and establish a move to another galaxy.

 

I'm not opposed to the Andromeda setting as it is, I'm opposed to having it right now without any basis for that.

1. Shepard's death in ME2 is offically not canon. Refuse is.
2. That would incredibly awful. The whole story and setting would be constrained.

Seriously I haven't heared one compeling argument why would it be better to have a setting in the Milky Way as opposed to Andromeda. The best people can come up with is "because I want to".

[Vazgen]

 

1. Shepard's death in ME2 is offically not canon. Refuse is.
2. That would incredibly awful. The whole story and setting would be constrained.

Seriously I haven't heared one compeling argument why would it be better to have a setting in the Milky Way as opposed to Andromeda. The best people can come up with is "because I want to".

 

1. There is no canon ending, Bioware said it themselves. And Shepard's death is as much a result of player choices as Refuse.

2. Again, that is assuming Refuse is addressed. It won't. And I don't see how it makes the story and setting constrained. It'll be the same exploration-focused game as in Andromeda.

 

And I haven't heard a compelling argument about why it should be in Andromeda. As for why it shouldn't be there, because getting to Andromeda will require either a heavy dose of space magic or creation of new lore (and retconning some old lore as well). I posted a long reply here. Milky Way setting does not have those requirements, the only thing it needs to explain is how the Crucible wave doesn't affect that region of space, which is easier and does not require changes or additions to the established lore.

[ZoliCs]

1. There is no canon ending, Bioware said it themselves. And Shepard's death is as much a result of player choices as Refuse.

2. Again, that is assuming Refuse is addressed. It won't. And I don't see how it makes the story and setting constrained. It'll be the same exploration-focused game as in Andromeda.

Refuse is as much canon as Destroy or Control or Synthesis. Shepard dying in ME2 just didn't happen. Refuse could happen.

 

 

 

And I haven't heard a compelling argument about why it should be in Andromeda. As for why it shouldn't be there, because getting to Andromeda will require either a heavy dose of space magic or creation of new lore (and retconning some old lore as well). I posted a long reply here. Milky Way setting does not have those requirements, the only thing it needs to explain is how the Crucible wave doesn't affect that region of space, which is easier and does not require changes or additions to the established lore.

 

You did, you just ignored it.

 

Staying in Milky Way:

pros:

• You can visit already established and loved places like the Citadel or Omega etc.

cons:

• They have to canonize endings or avoid it, but in that case it would be very constarined.
• The lore is sucked dry, there is no conflict or potential left in it.
• All the mysteries are gone. We know everything about the explored galaxy. Protheans did this, Reapers did that etc.
• If it's not in the explored galaxy then what does it matter if it's in the Milky Way or Andromeda? Same ****.

Going to Andromeda:

pros:

• Brings back the mystery.
• Lot of potential for new lore.
• Doesn't trashes your choices in the trilogy.
• Lots of freedom for the writers.

cons:

• Not seeing the loved places again, but if that's such a huge issue for you just replay the damn trilogy.
• Potentially playing loose with lore.

[Vazgen]

 

Refuse is as much canon as Destroy or Control or Synthesis. Shepard dying in ME2 just didn't happen. Refuse could happen.

LOL It didn't happen because Shepard is alive in the next game. Refuse could happen because we haven't got the new game yet. If the new game does not acknowledge Refuse as a viable choice then it didn't happen. Simple as that. 

And Refuse was added by the Extended Cut. What about players who don't use it?

 

 

 

You did, you just ignored it.

 

Staying in Milky Way:

pros:

• You can visit already established and loved places like the Citadel or Omega etc.

cons:

• They have to canonize endings or avoid it, but in that case it would be very constarined.
• The lore is sucked dry, there is no conflict or potential left in it.
• All the mysteries are gone. We know everything about the explored galaxy. Protheans did this, Reapers did that etc.
• If it's not in the explored galaxy then what does it matter if it's in the Milky Way or Andromeda? Same ****.

Going to Andromeda:

pros:

• Brings back the mystery.
• Lot of potential for new lore.
• Doesn't trashes your choices in the trilogy.
• Lots of freedom for the writers.

cons:

• Not seeing the loved places again, but if that's such a huge issue for you just replay the damn trilogy.
• Potentially playing loose with lore.

 

It seems you are the one ignoring what I'm saying.

Staying in Milky Way

Point 1: No need to change or add new lore to explain getting to the locations where the game takes place.

Point 2: please, explain why it would be very constrained

Point 3 and 4: Same potential for conflict, new lore and mysteries - less than 1% of Milky Way is explored (codex)

Point 5: see point 1

Notice that I don't advocate for returning to the places of the trilogy

 

Going to Andromeda

The only difference from a secluded space in Milky Way is that it requires establishing new (and retconning the old) lore to make the journey possible. Or use some space magic plot device. 

 

As you have pointed out yourself, setting the game in an unaffected region of Milky Way is the same as setting the game in a new galaxy. The only difference is that there is no technology for intergalactic travel in established lore and they'll have to make up something to make it plausible. 

[wright1978]

Have the game take place in a part of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave. Connect that part to the places of the trilogy via one primary relay and have that relay conveniently destroyed prior to using the Crucible. The wave doesn't reach there, the races are already there (since the region is already settled), there is room to have quarians (Idenna, Deception was confirmed faulty by the developers) and the geth - some isolated pocket of them, stuck in that part when the relay was destroyed. 

Forced to find new trade partners and resources, the races start to explore previously uncharted relays.

 

The ark theory at least has a reason why all these disparate races are thrown together in far off land with no reaper presence.

The reasoning as to why they are unaffected seems weak to me personally but maybe not fatally.

However even if we accept that surely reapers in two of the endings would be quickly able to reach this area of known space, unlike Ark theory which relies on long distance between the 2 places to maintain the isolation.

[Display Name Owner]

Why? The milky way is incomprehensibly massive, so massive as to potentially have every conceivable kind of environment within it. There's no reason Andromeda should be any different, it's just another huge load of stars, with huge loads of planets, housing huge loads of species no more or less alien than the ones we've already met.

 

So ultimately it doesn't even matter what galaxy we're in, except for Andromeda not having had Reapers reapin' all over it, so the aliens there might be ridiculously advanced.

 

On second thought I guess I just answered myself as to why a change of galaxy means anything. Could be interesting. Still, it's not like the Milky Way was going to be uninteresting.

 

Edit: just read the leak. On the one hand this could also have been pulled off in the Milky way - explore uncharted relays and find the occasional hidden cache of data from previous cycles, or just the Protheans even. Still, no harm in relocating I suppose.

[Vazgen]

 

The ark theory at least has a reason why all these disparate races are thrown together in far off land with no reaper presence.

The reasoning as to why they are unaffected seems weak to me personally but maybe not fatally.

However even if we accept that surely reapers in two of the endings would be quickly able to reach this area of known space, unlike Ark theory which relies on long distance between the 2 places to maintain the isolation.

The reason is there, the region is already settled.

If they do want to reach there, that is. They are busy helping to rebuild the galaxy. 

Hell, they can even make it so that secluded place does not want to reconnect with the trilogy locations. If there is something to be taken from these forums is that there are people unhappy regardless of what choice did you pick. 

[ZoliCs]

Point 1: No need to change or add new lore to explain getting to the locations where the game takes place.

Expanding evolving lore > rigid, written in stone lore

Point 2: please, explain why it would be very constrained

You seriously can't see that? If they want to work around every choice a player could made that means no Krogan, Geth, Rachni, Quarian.

Not to mention stuff like Refuse vs Synthesis vs Control/Destory.

It's known that the Crucible affected the whole galaxy. So if they make your suggestion it wouldn't be any less of a cop-out than intergalactic travel.

 

Point 3 and 4: Same potential for conflict, new lore and mysteries - less than 1% of Milky Way is explored (codex)

Not the same potential.

 

Notice that I don't advocate for returning to the places of the trilogy.

Then what's the point?

 

Going to Andromeda

The only difference from a secluded space in Milky Way is that it requires establishing new (and retconning the old) lore to make the journey possible. Or use some space magic plot device. 

 

As you have pointed out yourself, setting the game in an unaffected region of Milky Way is the same as setting the game in a new galaxy. The only difference is that there is no technology for intergalactic travel in established lore and they'll have to make up something to make it plausible. 

Lore evolves. Deal with it.

[ZoliCs]

I don't see how intergalactic travel is any worse than the Lazarus Project or the Crucible.

[Vazgen]

 

Expanding evolving lore > rigid, written in stone lore

It's not expansion or evolution, it's rewrite. 

 

You seriously can't see that? If they want to work around every choice a player could made that means no Krogan, Geth, Rachni, Quarian.

Not to mention stuff like Refuse vs Synthesis vs Control/Destory.

It's known that the Crucible affected the whole galaxy. So if they make your suggestion it wouldn't be any less of a cop-out than intergalactic travel.

Do you even read what I write? I'm starting to think you don't. None of those choices has to be addressed with this setup.

It is known that the Crucible affected known galaxy.

Not the same potential.

Pretty much the same. 

 

Then what's the point?

Explained.

 

Lore evolves. Deal with it.

I'm all for evolution of lore. I'm against rewriting it. 

 

I don't see how intergalactic travel is any worse than the Lazarus Project or the Crucible.

Which are regarded as some of the worst decisions in the trilogy. Do you really want to start a new Mass Effect game with such a leap of faith?

 

So ultimately it doesn't even matter what galaxy we're in, except for Andromeda not having had Reapers reapin' all over it, so the aliens there might be ridiculously advanced.

 

On second thought I guess I just answered myself as to why a change of galaxy means anything. Could be interesting. Still, it's not like the Milky Way was going to be uninteresting.

This is the first real argument I've seen that favors a move to another galaxy. 

[ZoliCs]

Also:

LOL It didn't happen because Shepard is alive in the next game. Refuse could happen because we haven't got the new game yet. If the new game does not acknowledge Refuse as a viable choice then it didn't happen. Simple as that. 

And Refuse was added by the Extended Cut. What about players who don't use it?

It's not the same. Shepard dying was not a choice. It's like a cinematic critical mission failure. Refuse if a legit choice a player makes. Why would it be any less valid than Destory?

[wright1978]

 

The reason is there, the region is already settled.

If they do want to reach there, that is. They are busy helping to rebuild the galaxy. 

Hell, they can even make it so that secluded place does not want to reconnect with the trilogy locations. If there is something to be taken from these forums is that there are people unhappy regardless of what choice did you pick. 

 

Seems rather odd that secluded area has been settled by all the races but suppose you could walk that tightrope.

In control versions that surely wouldn't be an option. Hard to say to no a reaper army with an overlord intent on maintaining oversight over known areas.

[ZoliCs]

 

 

It's not expansion or evolution, it's rewrite. 

 

 

Do you even read what I write? I'm starting to think you don't. None of those choices has to be addressed with this setup.

It is known that the Crucible affected known galaxy.

 

Pretty much the same. 

 

 

Explained.

 

 

I'm all for evolution of lore. I'm against rewriting it. 

 

Which are regarded as some of the worst decisions in the trilogy. Do you really want to start a new Mass Effect game with such a leap of faith?

 

This is the first real argument I've seen that favors a move to another galaxy. 

 

 

Your notion of adding new tech to the lore equals rewriting it is laughable.

[Vazgen]

 

Also:

It's not the same. Shepard dying was not a choice. It's like a cinematic critical mission failure. Refuse if a legit choice a player makes. Why would it be any less valid than Destory?

Shepard dying is a result of not doing loyalty missions and assigning wrong squadmates during the Suicide Mission. It's as much a choice as picking a dialogue option or shooting the starbrat.

 

Seems rather odd that secluded area has been settled by all the races but suppose you could walk that tightrope.

In control versions that surely wouldn't be an option. Hard to say to no a reaper army with an overlord intent on maintaining oversight over known areas.

It's only secluded because the relay leading to it was destroyed. It wasn't secluded all along

One reason for Sheplyst might be that it simply helps the galaxy to rebuild for the time being. 

 

Your notion of adding new tech to the lore equals rewriting it is laughable.

Your notion of adding new tech in the past is laughable. New discoveries after the endings? Sure. New discoveries before the endings? Rewrite. It's like saying that the cavemen developed nuclear technology at some point.

[johnny.temper]

Not really liking the idea of leaving the Milky Way tbh.  Doesn't seem to fit with the lore (FTL travel over intergalactic distances is beyond Reaper tech, worm-holes have never been in ME and seems a cheap get out to throw them in) plus resetting in another galaxy means losing so many interesting places, so much history and background that the first three have built up.  Yeah sure, lore can be changed, new races and histories can be written but still...

 

Anyway, I'll be playing it come what may.  Not sure if anyone's suggested this elsewhere, but reading through the leak, the Remnant race certainly are taking on the role of the Protheans as the 'mysterious race'.  What would be interesting is if the Remnants were actually literally remnants of the Prothean Empire who arrived where we're heading 50,000 year past to escape the Reapers on their own ark?  Would certainly explain us arriving in a 'Mass Effect'-y galaxy (we all evolved along lines Reapers wanted, so excuse to have similar tech), maybe even have them developing mass relay technology since then, plus they could have uplifted some Asari at least back then and taken them along.  That combines with the baggage we'll be hauling across intergalactic space to keep the favour of Mass Effect in the new game.  Also allows some nods back to the lore of early games (Ilos, the Citadel, Mars archive etc can all be referenced).  If the Remnants are fighting to re-establish their empire against the Khet, who are Andromeda natives - maybe our arrival could lead to a shake-up!

[ZoliCs]

Your notion of adding new tech in the past is laughable. New discoveries after the endings? Sure. New discoveries before the endings? Rewrite. It's like saying that the cavemen developed nuclear technology at some point.

If that's the best analog you can come up with I feel sorry for you.

[ZoliCs]

FTL travel over intergalactic distances is beyond Reaper tech

Except it isn't. The only 2 hurdle for intergalactic travel is energy and discharge. Both is unnecessary for reapers:

 

Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores

[von uber]

I can't believe how upset people get about making a canon ending, to the point where they'd rather leave an entire galaxy just so they can have their illusion of choice not be shattered.

The fanbase is the worst aspect of this series sometimes.

[Display Name Owner]

This is the first real argument I've seen that favors a move to another galaxy. 

 

 

Yeah, I was ready to call the whole thing pointless until that crossed my mind. Having said that though, it looks like the one really advanced species are basically Protheans 2.0 in concept, but I suppose we'll have to see what their story is. Also it doesn't seem these other species, like the pirates and all that, are actually any more advanced than our explorers.

 

Anyway, when it comes to the question of how they got to a new galaxy, it could be something similar to the Mars mssion they talk about. The explorers might have essentially signed their lives away and spent like 50 years in stasis on the journey. 

 

Whatever it is, I won't lie, I don't know why anyone would even need to expand beyond the Milky Way. It's fairly spacious, isn't it?

[Vazgen]

If that's the best analog you can come up with I feel sorry for you.

Feel sorry then. Because that's exactly what you suggest.

Existing lore: Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.

Your suggestion: Have the races of the galaxy develop similar technology and yet let no one know about it so the races of the galaxy still depend on a fuel and drive core discharge when the Reapers arrive.

[ZoliCs]

I can't believe how upset people get about making a canon ending, to the point where they'd rather leave an entire galaxy just so they can have their illusion of choice not be shattered.

The fanbase is the worst aspect of this series sometimes.

I can't believe how upset people get about intergalactic travel. Especially since ME is full of Deus Ex Machina. The Ark wouldn't be the first, or even the second.

[Vazgen]

Yeah, I was ready to call the whole thing pointless until that crossed my mind. Having said that though, it looks like the one really advanced species are basically Protheans 2.0 in concept, but I suppose we'll have to see what their story is. Also it doesn't seem these other species, like the pirates and all that, are actually any more advanced than our explorers.

 

Anyway, when it comes to the question of how they got to a new galaxy, it could be something similar to the Mars mssion they talk about. The explorers might have essentially signed their lives away and spent like 50 years in stasis on the journey. 

 

Whatever it is, I won't lie, I don't know why anyone would even need to expand beyond the Milky Way. It's fairly spacious, isn't it?

The problem with the highly advanced race is that there was one in the trilogy - the Reapers. And dealing with them required space magic plot device. Now if they are not hostile, the problem is their presentation. Asari are supposedly the most advanced race in the trilogy and yet they come out to be on par with humanity. I'm not sure how to write such a highly advanced race and have them stay relatable to the players. Take Javik, for example. He acts with ultimate confidence, does not care about the others and feels superior to all the others. Now imagine a race of Javiks

As for intergalactic travel, I think they'll just use some wormhole to get a bunch of ships through. It's the easiest method that doesn't require any new technological discoveries etc. Of course, it would require very convenient placement of those wormholes so that most (if not all) of the races end up in Andromeda.