161 réponses à ce sujet

[Steppenwolf]

Couldn't disagree more. Bioware created an amazing universe to spend time in. And we've hardly seen any of it.
Cast away 95% of that universe by going to And Andromeda and all you actually have is a spin off, doesn't matter how you dress it up.

kek

I would not argue about crucible and the rest of RGB,but situation is most certainly not "untenable".
<snip>

I notice all of you people who desperately want the series to continue in the Milky Way don't care at all about our choices mattering. What is the point of these games giving us story-altering choices if all the important choices are retroactively removed? Sure, we still had the experience of playing the previous games, but what's the point of continuing in the exact same setting if it's just more of the same? Or in this case, less of the same since we could be down four races in ME:N?

[BioWareMod03]

Hey everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.

[Iakus]

I can't believe how upset people get about intergalactic travel. Especially since ME is full of Deus Ex Machina. The Ark wouldn't be the first, or even the second.

 

The plethora of dei ex machina  in the series isn't exactly Mass Effect's strongest selling point.

[Steppenwolf]

Have the game take place in a part of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave. Connect that part to the places of the trilogy via one primary relay and have that relay conveniently destroyed prior to using the Crucible. The wave doesn't reach there, the races are already there (since the region is already settled), there is room to have quarians (Idenna, Deception was confirmed faulty by the developers) and the geth - some isolated pocket of them, stuck in that part when the relay was destroyed. 
Forced to find new trade partners and resources, the races start to explore previously uncharted relays.

Soooo just narrow the scope of the ignore every player choice from the trilogy? What would be the point? Or the benefit? You could do ALL of that in the Andromeda without making it the Dragon Age 2 of Mass Effect.

And I haven't heard a compelling argument about why it should be in Andromeda.

It's new and exciting and it won't be tainted by the unbelievably stupid endings of ME3. There ya go.

As for why it shouldn't be there, because getting to Andromeda will require either a heavy dose of space magic or creation of new lore (and retconning some old lore as well).

One of the game's own devs showed us how they could get to the Andromeda without space magic or breaking the lore. That you choose to ignore this says a lot about your argument.

If the new game does not acknowledge Refuse as a viable choice then it didn't happen. Simple as that. 
And Refuse was added by the Extended Cut. What about players who don't use it?

Jeez, you really don't care about player agency at all, do you?

It is known that the Crucible affected known galaxy.

Now you're just making stuff up. We can see the Crucible's energy spreading through the entire galaxy in the ending.

[Steppenwolf]

I can't believe how upset people get about making a canon ending, to the point where they'd rather leave an entire galaxy just so they can have their illusion of choice not be shattered.
The fanbase is the worst aspect of this series sometimes.

I can't believe how much people care about staying in one setting just because. It's silly. "Throw out the choices we made, just keep us in the same setting! Just come up with more space magic or something, but whatever you do just keep us in the same setting!" Why? "It's only 1% explored!" So what? We hadn't even explored 1% of the ocean's floor before we went to the Moon. Not going to another galaxy makes no sense for humanity. We're explorers. It's in our genes.

[Ansea]

As we don't know yet if this leak is real or 100% accurate, that's a lot of arguments.
Even if this leak is actual, we don't know how and when Milky Way species got there (in Andromeda Galaxy) and why. For example, let's imagine Milky Way Species have been invited in Andromeda Galaxy by one of the species which live there for its own agenda, it may make invalid a lot of them.

It may shock some of you, but Bioware is still the storyteller of the ME universe. I guess when they decided to do another game they had at least a pitch for this new opus. If they estimated that it will be a better, a more consistent story by setting it in a new galaxy, that remains their choice. I don't even know if we will able to judge if their choice was an appropriate one or the best one after the end of the first next game.

Not directly related to the management of the lore, I think that setting the new game in a new galaxy is also a way to put seasoned players of Mass Effect and new comers on the same step. If you have to play the first three games before being able to jump into the next opus, it's a too high prerequisite.(Especially when the first opus is so old and the first trigoly not (yet?) available on next gen consoles). I can't help thinking that the character James was mandatory in the first missions of ME3 because of new comers. At least there is another character which doesn't know the whole picture like a player which starts directly by ME3.

[marcelo caldas]

I don't see how intergalactic travel is any worse than the Lazarus Project or the Crucible.

 

Nothing is worse than the Crucible.

[Revan Reborn]

A change of scenery is exactly what the ME series needs. 

Even though it has already been stated, you are commenting on mere speculation and rumor, so hold your horses. Also, we only explored 1% of the Milky Way, so that hardly cause for a "change of scenery."

[Anacronian Stryx]

Personally I'm glad were out of the milky way as well, The milky way has pretty much been written into the ground and not with good results in my opinion - sometimes a fresh start is not such a bad idea.

[Pasquale1234]

Have the game take place in a part of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave. Connect that part to the places of the trilogy via one primary relay and have that relay conveniently destroyed prior to using the Crucible. The wave doesn't reach there, the races are already there (since the region is already settled), there is room to have quarians (Idenna, Deception was confirmed faulty by the developers) and the geth - some isolated pocket of them, stuck in that part when the relay was destroyed. 
Forced to find new trade partners and resources, the races start to explore previously uncharted relays.

- I'm assuming this previously settled region was on our galaxy map during the trilogy - otherwise, it's addition is sort of a retcon.

- The reapers have apparently not yet been to this region, so it should show up as reaper-free on the galactic map through ME3.

- Destroying a relay does a lot of damage. It is also the sort of event you would expect to be reported / known - though I suppose reaper destruction of comm buoys might keep that event unknown to the rest of the galaxy.

- For this to work under a Control or Synthesis ending, the 'friendly' reapers would never visit this region. I think a lot of players who chose Control or Synthesis would expect the reapers to repair / replace / maybe build more mass relays.

- It canonizes the idea that the Crucible wave has an AOE around mass relays, and would not impact the entire galaxy.

- It would have to take too long for them to get to another mass relay - or for anyone else in the galaxy to get to this region to be feasible - so they would be completely isolated for the duration. Also, no comm buoy restoration.

- So they develop the technology to travel to Andromeda and set forth - for what reason? Wouldn't they try to get in touch with the rest of TMW galactic community first?

I don't know that setting it in a previously settled but somehow completely isolated part of TMW would be any less contrived than traveling to Andromeda.
 

And I haven't heard a compelling argument about why it should be in Andromeda. As for why it shouldn't be there, because getting to Andromeda will require either a heavy dose of space magic or creation of new lore (and retconning some old lore as well).

How about... because as long as we're in The Milky Way, people will be looking to reconnect to those old familiar people and places. The galaxy map showed us mass relays and settled (and unsettled) worlds in every part of the TMW. Couldn't the folks from the isolated region get to those areas a lot quicker and easier than going all the way to Andromeda?

As for the tech, well - writers have a tendency to create whatever tech (or space magic) they need to tell the story they want to tell. Throughout the trilogy, we've been stumbling on previously unknown tech, experiments, artifacts, etc., that were not part of lore until they were.

I can appreciate that some of the resistance is based on tech / lore issues. I also suspect that a lot of the real reason for the resistance is the desire to revisit familiar places and see the results of some of the choices made in ME3, and I think sometimes it's easier to just bite the bullet and gth outta dodge instead of continuing to allow people to feed their hope of ever returning to previously tread territory.

Also - it covers their (Bioware's) backsides. Announcing a new game in TMW would engender expectations of reconnecting with people and places from the trilogy.

[jstme]

I notice all of you people who desperately want the series to continue in the Milky Way don't care at all about our choices mattering. What is the point of these games giving us story-altering choices if all the important choices are retroactively removed? Sure, we still had the experience of playing the previous games, but what's the point of continuing in the exact same setting if it's just more of the same? Or in this case, less of the same since we could be down four races in ME:N?

Don't care about choices...

 I hope you do realise that Andromeda scenario means that entire ME3 does not matter. Shepard can go and dance on Omega all the Reaper war and poof - there is now Mass Effect universe in Andromeda anyway.

 

Actually, people want to continue in the same galaxy SPECIFICALLY because they want to see it after the ME3 conclusion,living and breathing , they want to see that what they did in ME3 - matter.

Instead there is Andromeda. Heh.   

[wright1978]

Don't care about choices...
 I hope you do realise that Andromeda scenario means that entire ME3 does not matter. Shepard can go and dance on Omega all the Reaper war and poof - there is now Mass Effect universe in Andromeda anyway.
 
Actually, people want to continue in the same galaxy SPECIFICALLY because they want to see it after the ME3 conclusion,living and breathing , they want to see that what they did in ME3 - matter.
Instead there is Andromeda. Heh.

The choices matter and that is respected the andromeda scenario, instead of being overwritten in a Milky Way one.

[Steppenwolf]

Don't care about choices...
 I hope you do realise that Andromeda scenario means that entire ME3 does not matter.

No it doesn't. You had all of those experiences, start to finish, and made that final choice no matter how far away the next game is set. The galaxy you left behind is still there, intact.
 

Actually, people want to continue in the same galaxy SPECIFICALLY because they want to see it after the ME3 conclusion,living and breathing , they want to see that what they did in ME3 - matter.
Instead there is Andromeda. Heh.

 

Then why is everyone who wants to stay in the Milky Way advocating for our choices to not matter at all? "Just make it so everything is the same no matter what Shepard did." "Just make it so races that can be effected by Shepard's choices aren't around." "Just make it so the trilogy was just an old creep telling a grandiose but incorrect story about Shepard."

I don't want everything I did as Shepard to be washed away just to accommodate your nostalgia.

[The Elder King]

Don't care about choices...
 I hope you do realise that Andromeda scenario means that entire ME3 does not matter. Shepard can go and dance on Omega all the Reaper war and poof - there is now Mass Effect universe in Andromeda anyway.
 
Actually, people want to continue in the same galaxy SPECIFICALLY because they want to see it after the ME3 conclusion,living and breathing , they want to see that what they did in ME3 - matter.
Instead there is Andromeda. Heh.

How exactly you can see Your choices mattering in the MW? Regardless if they followed a canon or diluted the endings' effects to allow a sequel, your choices won't matter.
Not that with Andromeda your choices surely matter, but MW doesn't really allow that.

[jstme]

The choices matter and that is respected the andromeda scenario, instead of being overwritten in a Milky Way one.

What will matter? You are in different galaxy now, your entire galaxy is been overwritten. 

[Son of Shepherd]

kek             You do know that's in-game universe and not the actual universe?


I notice all of you people who desperately want the series to continue in the Milky Way don't care at all about our choices mattering. What is the point of these games giving us story-altering choices if all the important choices are retroactively removed? Sure, we still had the experience of playing the previous games, but what's the point of continuing in the exact same setting if it's just more of the same? Or in this case, less of the same since we could be down four races in ME:N?

A lot of our choices didn't matter throughout the trilogy, and like a lot of fans I wasn't impressed with some of the outcomes. The rachni choice, the Udina/Anderson choice and the collector base choices were ill though out by Bioware.  

 

However I don't really think expecting your choices to matter in ME3 is the same as expecting your ending choice to carry into the next game. Did anyone seriously finish the game and say "Oh I can't wait to import my synthesis playthrough into next ME"? 

 

If it meant giving the series the best chance to continue then I'd happily see Bioware choose post-destroy as their setting for the next game. But it wouldn't have to be canon. They could just say the game is set from the point of view that Shepard chose to destroy the reapers as it allows for the best story and potential conflict to emerge. You could even have the stargazer say words to that effect. 

 

However, IF Bioware decided there was a way to continue the existing ME Universe (milky way galaxy) by incorporating all ending choices then I don't think many would have a problem with that. I know I wouldn't.

[jstme]

How exactly you can see Your choices mattering in the MW? Regardless if they followed a canon or diluted the endings' effects to allow a sequel, your choices won't matter.
Not that with Andromeda your choices surely matter, but MW doesn't really allow that.

 

Saved council - let council die. Saved collectors base - destroyed collectors base. Did it matter? All choices in trilogy were diluted to allow for limited time and resources,there is nothing new.

Would you have advocated to relocated ME2 to,say, Cigar galaxy so that you would feel your choices in ME1 really mattered? 

[wright1978]

What will matter? You are in different galaxy now, your entire galaxy is been overwritten.

No it won't have been overwritten, it's still there unfolding based on my choices. Overwritten would be going back there and replacing all my choices with canon ones.

[jstme]

Then why is everyone who wants to stay in the Milky Way advocating for our choices to not matter at all? "Just make it so everything is the same no matter what Shepard did." "Just make it so races that can be effected by Shepard's choices aren't around." "Just make it so the trilogy was just an old creep telling a grandiose but incorrect story about Shepard."

I don't want everything I did as Shepard to be washed away just to accommodate your nostalgia.

Again,everything you did as Shepard WILL be washed away if it is now different galaxy. All you did - does NOT matter.   

[Steppenwolf]

What will matter? You are in different galaxy now, your entire galaxy is been overwritten.

No it hasn't. The Milky Way is still there. Nothing would be overwritten. You are objectively wrong.

Saved council - let council die. Saved collectors base - destroyed collectors base. Did it matter? All choices in trilogy were diluted to allow for limited time and resources,there is nothing new.
Would you have advocated to relocated ME2 to,say, Cigar galaxy so that you would feel your choices in ME1 really mattered?

Apples and oranges. The Council and Collector base choices don't alter the entire galaxy in deep, irreversible ways.

[von uber]

No it won't have been overwritten, it's still there unfolding based on my choices. Overwritten would be going back there and replacing all my choices with canon ones.

 

No it isn't. Only in your headcanon.

If Bioware do intend to move the series to an entirely new setting, then that setting is not Mass Effect. It can't be.

[Steppenwolf]

Again,everything you did as Shepard WILL be washed away if it is now different galaxy. All you did - does NOT matter.

That makes zero sense. This is like saying Star Trek:The Next Generation washed away the original series and nothing Kirk ever did mattered.

[ElitePinecone]

If Bioware do intend to move the series to an entirely new setting, then that setting is not Mass Effect. It can't be.

 

For about the tenth time this week: the nature of what defines a series and universe is subjective, yo.

[Steppenwolf]

No it isn't. Only in your headcanon.

That's not what hadcanon is. BioWare has said time and time again that the choices we made in our games is canon and that there is no official canon.

If Bioware do intend to move the series to an entirely new setting, then that setting is not Mass Effect. It can't be.

Why? How is the Milky Way so completely central to what makes the series what it is?

[jstme]

No it won't have been overwritten, it's still there unfolding based on my choices. Overwritten would be going back there and replacing all my choices with canon ones.

Well,it is exactly what is been done. Just hidden behind different galaxy screen. All you did does not matter ,because Milky Way people would get to Andromeda regardless of all your choices.