31 réponses à ce sujet

[Kakistos_]

If you spared the Rachni Queen in ME1, you encounter an Asari messenger of the Rachni in ME2 that tells you that the Rachni have reproduced and have ships as well as there being reports of "ships resembling Rachni design" being sighted on the news. The Queen's personal message: She will aid Shepard "against the coming darkness." The implication is clear: The Rachni are rebuilding and becoming a force in the galaxy again and will come to your aid against the Reapers as repayment for allowing their species a second chance.

 

Skip to ME3: All of that is gone and the Queen's fate is in your hands again. Basically a sloppy, shorter rehash of a mission we already did in ME1. I don't consider this a retcon(The Queen promising to disappear clearly is as in ME2 she clearly states she will return), I didn't expect the Rachni to be able to take on a Reaper force alone after only just resurging but it is no less dissapointing after the ME2 build up and anticipation of having one the most dangerous species in the galaxy on your side reduced to a few workers showing up.

 

The Rachni in ME1 and ME2 offfered tantalizing points in gameplay and story but in my opinion their delivery in ME3 was an abject failure. I expect better from Bioware in the future and hope that should the Rachni reappear in future ME installations their unique history, esteem and place in lore/story will merit more than a hasty copy/paste.

[Berit]

Electronic Arts or E.A. ...'Nuff said.

[grey_wind]

ME3 just pretends like the ME2 Asari messenger never happened. For some baffling reason Shepard keeps going on about how the Queen promised to disappear, completely forgetting she promised him a damn fleet in the last game.

 

So either the writers simply forgot about the Asari on Illium, or (as is the case with a lot of ME3) it was another instance of them sweeping an ME2 plot development under the rug.

[Vazgen]

One of the worst design choices in ME3. They should've simply removed the mission and the Ravagers from the game if you have killed the queen in ME1. And have her provide more than workers if spared. 

[Vortex13]

I agree with you 100% OP, in fact I go into a lot of the same details in a thread I made as well:

http://forum.bioware...cal-discussion/

 

 

The Rachni, if you spared them, should have made for one of the most important and game changing assets that Shepard could bring to bear against the Reapers. The Queen one of the very few people that actually took the Reaper threat seriously, not only that but the Rachni was also one of the very few species to actually have something to show for their preparations. 

 

As ME 2 mentions, the Queen was building up an army and a fleet, it may have not been as impressive as the combined might of the Turian military, but the Rachni were actually doing something with the time Shepard bought the galaxy. Compare this to the Council's "Ah yes, 'Reapers'", Wrex and the Krogan's "We'll totally provide aid... honest. It's not like we'll demand a cure for the Genophage before contributing to the fight or anything." etc.

 

The Geth and Quarians were willing to help Shepard fight, but rather than build up their forces with new ships and platforms the Geth decided to build a giant server to hide out in, and the Quarians decided that going to war on the cusp of a Reaper invasion was better than coordinating with the galaxy or at least taking Shepard and Legion's advice and trying to negotiate with the Geth.

 

 

In a nutshell, the Rachni were the best thing to happen to the galaxy in terms of being ready to fight the approaching Reapers. But I imagine that the writers didn't like the fact that these weird, creepy, space bugs would come to our rescue, so for the sake of making Shepard more of hero (and to play up the more 'human' elements like the Genophage cure) the Rachni forces were wiped out off camera, and the Queen was given a very brief cameo.

[Vazgen]

I blame time constraints. I don't see any other reasons for blatant lies like this

[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.

Source

[Vortex13]

One of the worst design choices in ME3. They should've simply removed the mission and the Ravagers from the game if you have killed the queen in ME1. And have her provide more than workers if spared. 

 

 

Really, they never should have given the player the option to completely wipe out a species in the first place, and this is not just the Rachni fan in me speaking. 

 

 

By placing such weighty choices in the players' hands BioWare essentially made it impossible to carry the plot forward with any meaningful consistency. Not only that, but such decisions preclude the writers from wanting to explore these characters more since they could be dead in people's play-throughs. It's the same reason why the ME 2 squad mates got shafted so hard in ME 3, why we got the 'Not-Mordin', 'Not-Legion' and 'Not-Rachni' characters in the third game, etc.

 

 

In my personal opinion, the outcome of Noveria in ME 1 should have played out like this:

 

The Queen is going to escape the Peak 15 facility regardless of what the player does, however Shepard can choose to let the Queen go without calling in her location, or he/she can notify the Noveria-based corporations to the break out and sic hunter killer teams after the Rachni. The outcome of these choices will determine how the Queen views the player and her willingness to work with the galaxy in the future.

[Iakus]

"We know you seek those who soured the songs of our mothers.  When the time comes, our voice will join with yours.  And our crescendo will burn the darkness clean"

 

Or not.  

[Vortex13]

I blame time constraints. I don't see any other reasons for blatant lies like this

[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.

Source

 

 

True, but I just don't see the narrative allowing for another species to come in and help save the day without Shepard single handedly going out and solving all of their issues and centuries long problems first. 

 

The Rachni's promise of aid didn't have any stings attached to it, no objectives that Shepard would have had to accomplish before they assisted the galaxy, no opportunities for the player to be a big god**** hero.

[Quarian Master Race]

True, but I just don't see the narrative allowing for another species to come in and help save the day without Shepard single handedly going out and solving all of their issues and centuries long problems first. 

 

The Rachni's promise of aid didn't have any stings attached to it, no objectives that Shepard would have had to accomplish before they assisted the galaxy, no opportunities for the player to be a big god**** hero.

Eh, I don't really think that was the issue, because the writers could have just come up with some conveniently timed issue for the rachni that requires space Jesus's intervention if they wanted to maintain that theme. The Council going full retard and concluding "ahh yes, reapers" was a contrivance to keep the plot going. The krogan were fatalistically concerned with their own low chances of survival from the start, and so were not going to help unless assured (or fooled into believing) that they could have a future. The timing of the quarian/geth conflict was an utter contrivance designed at taking two of the only remaining forces who were willing to fight the Reapers from the get go out of the fight until you swoop in and save the day with one liners. That leaves the rachni, whose forshadowed buildup the writers just decided to ignore in favour of the genophage arc out of either laziness or time constraints.

They could've easily had their own 2-3 mission arc. Have the reapers build frankenqueen regardless, but if you saved the original queen have them use it to send the normal rachni forces the queen spent 3 years building some "sour notes" or whatever and Shanghai them so they can't help you. Real queen asks for help, and Shep swoops in to save the day, defeat frankenqueen and free the rachni from reaper control, with a gratuitous renegade choice at the end to wipe the original queen and her forces or not via plot device, because "you can't be trusted" or whatever. Rachni fleet and ground forces worth 150 war assets each, along with the 100 you get for the workers. Throw some of their ships and warriors into the cutscenes at Earth.

If you didn't save original queen than it plays out similarly, but you can now recruit frankenqueen and it still has utterly predictable results (albiet larger consequences). In this eventuality though, no more enemy Ravagers show up because the Reapers only had time to make a small number using the frankenqueen and all are killed during the arc, rather than indoctrinating a larger number of pre produced drones from the original queen's forces.

[Han Shot First]

The Rachni were a missed opportunity.

 

It might have been interesting to have them shore up Palaven along with the Krogan, if spared in ME1. If the Rachni are recruited in ME3 Palaven holds out, and if not Palaven eventually falls to the Reapers just before Priority: Earth. Have Palaven hold out only if both the Krogan and Rachni are recruited. 

[Vazgen]

True, but I just don't see the narrative allowing for another species to come in and help save the day without Shepard single handedly going out and solving all of their issues and centuries long problems first. 

 

The Rachni's promise of aid didn't have any stings attached to it, no objectives that Shepard would have had to accomplish before they assisted the galaxy, no opportunities for the player to be a big god**** hero.

Their arrival could've been a timely rescue. Like the knights of Rohan at the Battle of the Helm's Deep

[themikefest]

One of the worst design choices in ME3. They should've simply removed the mission and the Ravagers from the game if you have killed the queen in ME1. And have her provide more than workers if spared. 

That would be ok with me. Grunt could join Shepard on the Normandy if alive

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"Shepard is my Battlemaster. She has no match."

[Massa FX]

"Shepard is my Battlemaster. She has no match."

 

 

Truth.

[elrofrost]

Not having any of the ME2 crew on the Normandy (except for the ME1 crew - Garrus, Joke, and Tali) was a big dissapointment for me. I was expecting Gunt and Samara especially. Since both  sort-of pledged their lives to Shepard's service/command. And Legion was another one.

I

[Vortex13]

The Rachni were a missed opportunity.

 

It might have been interesting to have them shore up Palaven along with the Krogan, if spared in ME1. If the Rachni are recruited in ME3 Palaven holds out, and if not Palaven eventually falls to the Reapers just before Priority: Earth. Have Palaven hold out only if both the Krogan and Rachni are recruited. 

 

 

That would have been awesome. Plus it would have provided some interesting dialogue/roleplaying opportunities if the Krogan and the Rachni had to fight alongside each other. 

 

If nothing else I would have loved to see some wind taken out of the "pro-Genophage cure" sails. I am not against helping the Krogan in general, but there was an obvious agenda in the narrative to make player sympathize with the Krogan plight. The Genophage was evil, and listen to the tales of all the dead Krogan babies that our abused females tell you, etc. ME 3 completely glosses over the fact why the Genophage was enacted, about the fact that the Krogan rendered 3 garden worlds completely uninhabitable via redirected asteroids, about their attempted hostile take over of Council space, etc..

 

It would have been nice, once the player secures both Rachni and Krogan aid for Palaven, for Shepard to make the comment to Wrex/Wreave that those space bugs that his species wiped out are helping the galaxy without demanding concessions.

[Kabooooom]

True, but I just don't see the narrative allowing for another species to come in and help save the day without Shepard single handedly going out and solving all of their issues and centuries long problems first.

The Rachni's promise of aid didn't have any stings attached to it, no objectives that Shepard would have had to accomplish before they assisted the galaxy, no opportunities for the player to be a big god**** hero.

At least the Krogan and Quarians actions made sense, though - they are simply people, despite their alienness, and their story arcs reflect that. The Krogan saw an opportunity to get what they want in exchange for their help - no one would have acted otherwise. Humans would have done the same damn thing. The Quarians had been wandering for 200 years and finally had am opportunity to regain their homeworld, albeit in an extremely immoral way. Their perspective was more or less "**** the galaxy and the war, if we want our homeworld back we have to act now. We'll deal with that Reaper apocalypse bit later". No one would have acted otherwise - humans would have done the same damn thing.

Their actions are flawed because they as a species are flawed, just like humans.

[shodiswe]

One, the Rachni had very little time to recover, two Bioware decided to have the Reapers hit them.

I still had expected a little bit more from the Rachni, but not fleets. Fleets are fielded by the major and established civilisations.

[Vortex13]

At least the Krogan and Quarians actions made sense, though - they are simply people, despite their alienness, and their story arcs reflect that. The Krogan saw an opportunity to get what they want in exchange for their help - no one would have acted otherwise. Humans would have done the same damn thing. The Quarians had been wandering for 200 years and finally had am opportunity to regain their homeworld, albeit in an extremely immoral way. Their perspective was more or less "**** the galaxy and the war, if we want our homeworld back we have to act now. We'll deal with that Reaper apocalypse bit later". No one would have acted otherwise - humans would have done the same damn thing.

Their actions are flawed because they as a species are flawed, just like humans.

 

*Warning: Off-Topic rant inbound*

 

Well ultimately that ties back to one of the things I disliked as the trilogy moved on, the 'humanization' of the setting. At the end of the day the Krogan, Turians, Quarians, etc. were humans with rubber suits on. Their actions, personalities, even their social structure, and general culture were just slight tweaks on humanity. It would have been nice to see more of the alien elements to the setting, more specifically alien elements that aren't automatically opposed to the player.

 

The Rachni was one of the few 'alien' aliens in the game, after the Thorian was killed and the Geth were 'fixed' to be more like us they are the only different sentient species in the setting. It would have been nice to see them get a bigger role in the narrative. ME 3 is (essentially) a very human take on war, all of the major species that Shepard encounters react to the fighting like we do, I would have loved to see how those species without direct human analogues engaged the Reapers, at the very least it would have helped add some variety to the narrative.

 

In-game perspective would also support the idea that fighting the Reapers with the same general perspectives and tactics just makes it easier for them to counter the galaxy as a whole; you would want some outliers in the mix to throw off their strategies. How do the Reapers approch a race that doesn't fit into their preferred method of harvesting; if a species doesn't have non-combatants, doesn't establish population centers like the rest of the galaxy, and is seemingly resistant/immune to indoctrination how would they react? Sure they could just annihilate the Rachni with their superior technology, but the fact that the Reapers would have to divert their resources, change their MO, would at least help the rest of the galaxy out by buying them a little time.

 

/rant 

[Berit]

*Warning: Off-Topic rant inbound*

 

Well ultimately that ties back to one of the things I disliked as the trilogy moved on, the 'humanization' of the setting. At the end of the day the Krogan, Turians, Quarians, etc. were humans with rubber suits on. ,snip>

/rant 

Well, ... What did you expect?

As far as we (currently, and leaving aside personal beliefs) know, we are the only intelligent species in the galaxy. We can only use "human" behaviouer and history as a guide. For instance science will anthropomorphize the behavior of an Ant Colony, because we have know other way of describing how a Queen Ant and the colony at large "think".

 

How de we "know" that an Ant colony, given enough time, might not evolve into something more? Something like the Rachni? We don't. So all we can do is speculate on what we see, and can study and make (barely educated) guesses, and that's for another "terrestrial" species. Even amongst  our own species, we can sometimes barely fathom the way certain "cultures" view the world, and enact various behaviors, some customs almost seem "alien" from one culture to the next.

 

So how on earth (no pun intended) do you expect a game developer to make an "alien" species feel alien? The only way they can. By looking at "human" cultures both past and present, and by looking at "science" past, present and future, and using that wonderful thing called "poetic license".

 

They "alienify" (I just made up a word ) various "human" religions, cults, histories, behaviors and cultures. because there really isn't any other way they can tell a story, and have us, the players, understand and relate to that story.

 

... ...

 

As for the Reapers, I think you are overlooking one of the central themes in the Trilogy ... "history repeats itself" ... The concept of "cycles" and the "Harvests" signifies that the Reapers have known for some time, that races and cultures  "evolve" along predictable and repeatable "patterns". Javik mentions this when/if you take him to Sur'kesh, and the Prothean VI on Thessia also mentions that the "cycles" appear to be non random, and are not totally a Reaper contrivance.

 

So you will always have the same or similar cultures and behaviors each "cycle", you'll always have non-combatants, and always have population centers to harvest ... and apparently, always have quislings.

 

In other words, the Reapers are conducting an experiment on a Galactic scale over the course of Millennia to try and find the solution to their original problem. That being to stop the Galaxy from what they believe to be it's inevitable conclusion, the self annihilation of all life.

 

Of course you may see it differently, and that is yet another example of what makes us human

 

...

Having said all that, I too would have liked to see the Rachni play a bigger role in ME3, but what we ultimately have here, is a now completed game, and this is nothing more than corporal punishment of deceased equines.

[Vortex13]

Well, ... What did you expect?

As far as we (currently, and leaving aside personal beliefs) know, we are the only intelligent species in the galaxy. We can only use "human" behaviouer and history as a guide. For instance science will anthropomorphize the behavior of an Ant Colony, because we have know other way of describing how a Queen Ant and the colony at large "think".

 

How de we "know" that an Ant colony, given enough time, might not evolve into something more? Something like the Rachni? We don't. So all we can do is speculate on what we see, and can study and make (barely educated) guesses, and that's for another "terrestrial" species. Even amongst  our own species, we can sometimes barely fathom the way certain "cultures" view the world, and enact various behaviors, some customs almost seem "alien" from one culture to the next.

 

So how on earth (no pun intended) do you expect a game developer to make an "alien" species feel alien? The only way they can. By looking at "human" cultures both past and present, and by looking at "science" past, present and future, and using that wonderful thing called "poetic license".

 

They "alienify" (I just made up a word ) various "human" religions, cults, histories, behaviors and cultures. because there really isn't any other way they can tell a story, and have us, the players, understand and relate to that story.

 

I get that no one can truly create an alien species, because by it's own definition an alien is incomprehensible, but races like the Rachni are the more 'alien' of the aliens in the setting (IMO). Even though you can still understand and comprehend the Queen, her portrayal is radically different than the other, more human species out there. 

 

It would have been nice if aliens like the Rachni, the Thorian, and the ME 2 Geth got more screen time, and more weight in the story. Sweeping them to the side, killing them off, and making them like us really robbed the setting of that 'other' element. It was nice when the universe felt like it didn't revolve around us and was only populated with things that we could instantly relate to.  

 

 

As for the Reapers, I think you are overlooking one of the central themes in the Trilogy ... "history repeats itself" ... The concept of "cycles" and the "Harvests" signifies that the Reapers have known for some time, that races and cultures  "evolve" along predictable and repeatable "patterns". Javik mentions this when/if you take him to Sur'kesh, and the Prothean VI on Thessia also mentions that the "cycles" appear to be non random, and are not totally a Reaper contrivance.

 

So you will always have the same or similar cultures and behaviors each "cycle", you'll always have non-combatants, and always have population centers to harvest ... and apparently, always have quislings.

 

In other words, the Reapers are conducting an experiment on a Galactic scale over the course of Millennia to try and find the solution to their original problem. That being to stop the Galaxy from what they believe to be it's inevitable conclusion, the self annihilation of all life.

 

Of course you may see it differently, and that is yet another example of what makes us human 

 

I understand the central theme BioWare had going, I was just speaking in-universe about mixing up the galaxy's approach to fighting the Reapers. If they had established, and manipulated the cycles into producing a relatively 'predictable' average for each harvest, then the most logical thing to do would be to get some outliers involved. Throw some monkey wrenches in the Reaper's plan, bring races that go against their established plan into the fight, add some unpredictability to the cycle, etc.

 

It wouldn't help win a conventional victory, but it would help slow the Reapers down as they try and adapt to new tactics; distract them long enough to finish the Crucible.

 

Having said all that, I too would have liked to see the Rachni play a bigger role in ME3, but what we ultimately have here, is a now completed game, and this is nothing more than corporal punishment of deceased equines.

 

 

Agreed.

 

However, if the rumored leak about ME:Next is true, then I really hope that we get to see the Rachni in the new game. Use the Queen, her clone, or another egg discovered out in the void, anything to bring them back into the setting.

 

BioWare (IMO) hasn't had the best track record in adding new 'alien' elements to an established franchise, especially one that is 3-4 titles old. For evidence simply look at the lack of alien/fantastical elements in both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age games as they moved on. Sure, the settings had sic-fi and magic in it, but look at how the non-human perspective; the Thorian, (ME 2) Geth, the Rachni/the werewolves, Sylvans, Awakened; was pushed to the side in favor of more 'mundane', more human elements. I would prefer they preserve the elements they have rather than scrapping them and trying to make something new.

[Vortex13]

I don't think the rachni even like violence, in their natural state. So they contributed to engineering instead. It contrasts how the Reapers want to use them.

 

 

I never liked the narrative declaring the Rachni as wholly nonviolent personally.

 

It doesn't make sense that a species specifically breed for war, with only the most cunning and ruthless Queens selected (as per Javik) would become completely docile by the time of our cycle. Also, I really don't like the writer get out of jail free card of: "Mind control made me do it!" used when the plot needs someone to do something apprehensible without consequence. 

 

 

My personal head cannon is that the Rachni were the ones to instigate the Rachni Wars and that the Leviathans just piggy backed off of their invasion and forced them to continue the fight even when the Krogan backed council pushed them back to Suen. From there it was a combination of Leviathan thralldom and Krogan bloodlust that saw the Rachni wiped out. The current Queen realizes (rightly so) that working with the galaxy and forming alliances is the best way ensure the survival of her species; altruism trumps xenophobia as far as she is concerned.