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[Ravenman1]

Joss Whedon. Ugh.

[Ravenman1]

So is Alistair supposed to be a South Californian teenager?

[Chas1024]

Ravenman1 wrote...

So is Alistair supposed to be a South Californian teenager?

That would explain a lot.

[David Gaider]

Ravenman1 wrote...
So is Alistair supposed to be a South Californian teenager?

There is a style to Joss Whedon's dialogue patter that goes beyond the setting.

[RogueWriter3201]

David Gaider wrote...

Ravenman1 wrote...
So is Alistair supposed to be a South Californian teenager?

There is a style to Joss Whedon's dialogue patter that goes beyond the setting.

I know I shall loose some' Guy' points with this, but, I must say I rather like Alistair and his Xander-ness. He was, by far, my favorite member of Buffy's so called "Scoobies." I know, I know, I feel shame...

[Valdrane78]

David Gaider wrote...

Is the Dragon Age style specifically medieval? Of course not, nor is it intended to be. Is it appropriate for a fantasy setting? You tell me. Some people prefer fantasy to be all "thee's" and "thou's", some prefer romantic and melodic, some prefer Tolkienesque... tastes vary so I don't think there's any one "right" style. It is what it is.

As far as I am concerned fantasy means anything but reality.  Which is why I think it is such a broad genre, that can come from either very early times meaning King Arthur and such to StarWars.  Any story that deals with fantastic stories, people places, anything outside the norm etc etc etc, is essentially fantasy.

My 2 cents.

[RangerSG]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Atcherseid wrote...
Yes, I get that, but I don't feel that medieval characters should talk like comics on NBC.

You might nit feel that, but the writers obviously did. It's called comedic relief, and i tend to find it quite entertaining. You also used the keyword "medieval". DA:O is set in a fantasy era, in a fantasy world. Not in the middle ages.

RangerSG wrote...

Jowan says;"The clock's ticking."
Clocks would've been almost unheard of in the time (you don't ever see one, mind you). And they wouldn't "tick" yet, since the gears to make them would be primitive still and "grind" and there was no second hand to 'tick, tick, tick." So that's one anachronism that makes me cringe..

It might make you cringe, but it's not anachronistic. Technology isn't exactly on a medieval level on Thedas, and varies with cultures. For instance, the Qunari  have cannons.
Given that the first mechanical clocks in the real world have been invented prior to the 1200, while the earliest known cannon is dated 1282 (and the wars in which the use of cannons is described are actually predating the Dragon Age by quite a lot), you get the picture.
Also, Jowan is a mage. he's grown up in the circle, which is full of artifacts and books. It's definitely possible that, if clocks exist in thedas, he knows about them. And if cannons exist, it's reasonable to believe that clocks do as well.

That's a huge reach. And even 'if' Jowan had read about them or even seen one. He'd never had seen one with a second hand or refined enough to 'tick.' And it certainly wouldn't be axiomatic enough to use as a quotation. Bell Tower clocks (the only ones that would've been known), would've been massive things. No ticking involved. By comparison, an accurate timepiece is a much more sophisticated piece of equipment than a cannon. So saying "cannon=accurate clocks" nope.

That said, I will bow to DG's insight. Though I still don't know that they'd 'tick.'

Modifié par RangerSG, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:05 .

[Enkara the Red]

Shale refers to "genetic superiority" in a conversation with the PC Grey Warden.

[thegoldfinch]

Enkara the Red wrote...

Shale refers to "genetic superiority" in a conversation with the PC Grey Warden.

I didn't mind the way Alistair talked at all or the hilarious hidden jokes like the epic fail, but this thing, yeah, that bothered me a lot. 

To my knowlege, there would be no way that anyone would know anything about genes - recessive and dominant "traits", yeah, but not genes and genetics.

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

Since the world is not Earth, Thades is not Europe and Fereldan is not England then one may presume that the characters are not, in fact, speaking English.



It would therefore not make a lot of sense to talk about anachronistic English expressions.

[Feraele]

How about the town crier in Orzammar who shouts the news about Bhelen and states epic fail after? hehe Cracked me up the first time I heard it.

[SheffSteel]

I think an anachronism remains an anachronism whatever language it is translated into. The defining characteristic of an anachronism is not that it seems new to the observer, but that it is out of keeping with the period of the work.



If you wanted to be pedantic, you could argue that an anachronism is impossible in a fictional work that isn't set in our own timeline, but if you are going to be that "intellectual" about it, you really ought to provide us with the correct term to use to refer to a phrase which is obviously out of keeping with the world in which it is spoken.

[PBI]

Having the characters use modernisms, or modern-sounding phrases (i.e. anachronisms) does serve to interfere with the immersive quality of the game, in my opinion. If this was set in modern times, Alistair's "hello?" or the crier's "epic fail" would fit right in. It is a bit jarring, though, to have someone in what is for all intents and purposes a medieval/Tolkienesque setting to start injecting bits of modern speech.



P.S. I do applaud trying to emulate some of Whedon's characterizations, though. One thing he does right is character interaction. Though I prefer the Big Damn Heroes of Firefly as inspiration, but YMMV

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

I think an anachronism remains an anachronism whatever language it is translated into. The defining characteristic of an anachronism is not that it seems new to the observer, but that it is out of keeping with the period of the work.

Then every word that comes out of these characters mouths is an anachronism, since they all very much speak Modern English rather than Middle English, which is what they spoke in the medieval period (representative sample: "A knyght ther was, and that a worthy man, that fro the tyme that he first bigan to riden out, he loved chivalrie, trouthe and honour, fredom and curteisie."), which is what the DA setting seems to be based on. 

The fact that they speak forms of English more current to the 2000s than the 1950s is small pie, anachronism-wise. Presumably, the style of expression for each character was chosen so that it has the same associations for a speaker of modern English as their use of Fereldanese would sound to another Fereldanese speaker, e.g. Morrigan's somewhat archaic English represents whatever wild-ass dialect Fereldanese she got from growing up in a swamp, and Wynn sounds like the product of an expensive education (presumably, they teach a lot more than spells at the Tower)

So long as they don't say things like "information super highway" or "catalytic converter", I don't really mind since they have to make the choice between either authentic or intelligible.

Modifié par WhyIsThisNecessary, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:00 .

[SheffSteel]

"Dude WTF? My sword is broken" ... not anachronism, just modern language.

"That magical device looks interesting. Let's see what's under the hood." ... anachronism, because "under the hood" presupposes a world with cars.

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

Agreed.

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

Also, interesting fact: "dude" was coined in 1873, meaning a well dressed man, which is only fifty years later than the modern usage of the word "hello", which - counter to the OP- seems to have originated as an expression used to call attention to something.

Modifié par WhyIsThisNecessary, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:26 .

[Apocalizz]

 As long as they like, you know, like totally, don't talk like this, you know, cuz, that would like, totally asbo, right?

[TyroneTasty]

Enkara the Red wrote...

Shale refers to "genetic superiority" in a conversation with the PC Grey Warden.

When you have that long to do nothing but sit and think, I'm sure you could come up with the concept of genetics.

Modifié par TyroneTasty, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:26 .

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

Apocalizz wrote...

 As long as they like, you know, like totally, don't talk like this, you know, cuz, that would like, totally asbo, right?

Actually, absos were invented in 1832 by Sir Henry Asbo.

(not really)

[SheffSteel]

If only the back alleys of Denerim were infested with happy slappy hoodies with asbos and ringtones. That would have been something.

[danielsun1]

they are called thugs, we have just renamed them in the modern age =P

[Ravenman1]

David Gaider wrote...

Ravenman1 wrote...
So is Alistair supposed to be a South Californian teenager?

There is a style to Joss Whedon's dialogue patter that goes beyond the setting.

I was being a little silly

Seriously though, from a writer's standpoint what about said linguistic style appealed to the creation of the Alistair character?

[Atcherseid]

SheffSteel wrote...


If you wanted to be pedantic, you could argue that an anachronism is impossible in a fictional work that isn't set in our own timeline, but if you are going to be that "intellectual" about it, you really ought to provide us with the correct term to use to refer to a phrase which is obviously out of keeping with the world in which it is spoken.

I'm not sure there is such a word. My first thought was "exonym," but that's not it. I guess this would just fall into the category "lack of verisimilitude."

[Eudaemonium]

David Gaider wrote...

There is a style to Joss Whedon's dialogue patter that goes beyond the setting.

As an (admittedly amateur) writer who has spent time with other (admittedly amateur) writers, I (and others) find that Joss Whedon's particular dialogue style is actually quite difficult to emulate in an effective and natural way. It frequently comes across as very forced. I just wanted to say that you did an excellent job doing it with Alistair.

Oh, and in response to the Shale remarks. I believe she uses 'superior lineage', though she also refers to 'elevating' one's 'genetic stock'. 'Genetic' is, however, a 19th-century term relating to the study of heredity and origins (from Greek genesis), so there's actually no indication Shale is using ti to mean 'genes' instead of just one's heredity. I will admit it does come across as a bit anachronistic though.