114 réponses à ce sujet

[corebit]

David Gaider wrote...

In terms of the style we use specifically for Dragon Age, we do indeed have some rules about anachronisms.

We tend to avoid words that have a specifically modern origin -- but we do not restrict our word usage only to things of medieval origin. That wouldn't be very helpful in communication, so anything non-idiomatic prior to the 20th century is generally okay.

Slang we also avoid, but in terms of the way a character speaks it can sometimes be okay. That's a judgement call, both on the parts of the writers as well as the editors. We are, after all, attempting to communicate with a modern audience. Some characters do this more than others (Alistair being an example, as his verbal patter was based on Joss Whedon's "Buffy-speak" specifically), but overall the idea is to be consistent rather than rigid.

Insofar as inventions go, there are indeed clocks in Thedas. They are fairly rare and expensive, but the dwarves make them and export them to the surface. There is also such a thing as a lamp post-- it is a metal post on which one hangs a lamp (in some places this lamp is magical, in fact, and they're said to line the streets in Val Royeaux as a display of Orlesian extravagance).

Is the Dragon Age style specifically medieval? Of course not, nor is it intended to be. Is it appropriate for a fantasy setting? You tell me. Some people prefer fantasy to be all "thee's" and "thou's", some prefer romantic and melodic, some prefer Tolkienesque... tastes vary so I don't think there's any one "right" style. It is what it is.

I always enjoy reading your posts, Mr. Gaider, because sometimes they reveal bits and pieces of lore and other details about Thedas. Very interesting.

Your team must have already written up entire cities like Orlais in great detail during the production (probably as backup in case you want to incorporate into your game). I would love to explore these settings and they would make great expansions in the future.

[fluxcage]

WhyIsThisNecessary wrote...

Since the world is not Earth, Thades is not Europe and Fereldan is not England then one may presume that the characters are not, in fact, speaking English.

It would therefore not make a lot of sense to talk about anachronistic English expressions.

Exactly!

If Thedans spoke their native tongue, none of us would understand it.

The translator portion of the game's code is converting the idioms of the native language into the idioms of our modern languages. You can be assured that the intent of the original speaker is precisely conveyed.

[Szegedin]

Atcherseid wrote...

One that comes to mind is when you ask Alistair about his background and he says something along the lines of "Hello? Haven't you been listening ..." etc. The use of "Hello?" as a synomym for " pay attention" seems pretty recent. Ten or twenty years ago, hello was an answer, not a question.

Good lord, the characters are all speaking English (or whatever localization you're hearing) - which means if you REALLY want to enter into their world as badly as you seem to, you have to assume their common tongue is being immediately translated for your convenience.  As a result, "Hellooo" in context would be an entirely different expression that was being approximated by the words you're reading.

This conversation seems to have steered more towards out-of-game references, which in my opinion are fine as asides or easter eggs.  I agree having a character directly refer to a 'Buick' as an expressive device, as a poster above suggests, would be a bad move. 

But that doesn't happen as far as I'm aware.

The Epic Fail line is a joke, a pretty dumb one (and poorly delivered at that), but jokes have limited immunity and don't threaten the integrity of the universe. 

 

[fluxcage]

Szegedin wrote...

...you have to assume their common tongue is being immediately translated for your convenience.  As a result, "Hellooo" in context would be an entirely different expression that was being approximated by the words you're reading...

The Epic Fail line is a joke... 

Agreed, except I'd wager that the ancient Egyptians (just for the sake of example) had an expression that would translate into "epic fail" in today's English.

(Hoping that there are no experts on ancient Egyptian in the audience...)

[corebit]

Szegedin wrote...

Atcherseid wrote...

One that comes to mind is when you ask Alistair about his background and he says something along the lines of "Hello? Haven't you been listening ..." etc. The use of "Hello?" as a synomym for " pay attention" seems pretty recent. Ten or twenty years ago, hello was an answer, not a question.

Good lord, the characters are all speaking English (or whatever localization you're hearing) - which means if you REALLY want to enter into their world as badly as you seem to, you have to assume their common tongue is being immediately translated for your convenience.  As a result, "Hellooo" in context would be an entirely different expression that was being approximated by the words you're reading.

This conversation seems to have steered more towards out-of-game references, which in my opinion are fine as asides or easter eggs.  I agree having a character directly refer to a 'Buick' as an expressive device, as a poster above suggests, would be a bad move. 

But that doesn't happen as far as I'm aware.

The Epic Fail line is a joke, a pretty dumb one (and poorly delivered at that), but jokes have limited immunity and don't threaten the integrity of the universe. 

 

I agree. Just treat them as easter eggs. They are meant to lighten you up.

I remember picking up the "Shepard" dwarven codex entry in the Deep Roads. It was a very minor thing, but it brought me a smile reading it nevertheless.

Their sole purpose is to bring light-hearted moments in an otherwise very serious and dark story.

[cachx]

David Gaider wrote...
Those are indeed out-of-game references... but we've never been above using those. Not in BG, and not in DA. Some people may not like them... but meh. *shrug*

Don't feel bad, I love outside references. Specially when they come out of nowhere. I laugh, say something like "I wasn't expecting that" and then carry on with the game. It doesn't bother me at all  that the "inmersion" is broken or whatever...

[Atcherseid]

Szegedin wrote...

Atcherseid wrote...

One that comes to mind is when you ask Alistair about his background and he says something along the lines of "Hello? Haven't you been listening ..." etc. The use of "Hello?" as a synomym for " pay attention" seems pretty recent. Ten or twenty years ago, hello was an answer, not a question.

Good lord, the characters are all speaking English (or whatever localization you're hearing) - which means if you REALLY want to enter into their world as badly as you seem to, you have to assume their common tongue is being immediately translated for your convenience.  As a result, "Hellooo" in context would be an entirely different expression that was being approximated by the words you're reading.

I get that. But there is a certain line where "translation" into pop-culture cliches can work against the suspension of disbelief. If characters spoke in "LOL WTF OMG BBQ" it would be too much. Again, this is all very subjective. 

[Elphaba]

David Gaider wrote...
... (Alistair being an example, as his verbal patter was based on Joss Whedon's "Buffy-speak" specifically), but overall the idea is to be consistent rather than rigid.
...

This pleases me to no end.

[Chas1024]

So Alistair = Xander! Can't I have Spike instead?

[Will Ever]

Not everything is about you, Marjolaine. 

[AlanC9]

Chas1024 wrote...

So Alistair = Xander! Can't I have Spike instead?

And does that make Morrigan Evil Willow?

[Szegedin]

Atcherseid wrote...

Szegedin wrote...

Atcherseid wrote...

One that comes to mind is when you ask Alistair about his background and he says something along the lines of "Hello? Haven't you been listening ..." etc. The use of "Hello?" as a synomym for " pay attention" seems pretty recent. Ten or twenty years ago, hello was an answer, not a question.

Good lord, the characters are all speaking English (or whatever localization you're hearing) - which means if you REALLY want to enter into their world as badly as you seem to, you have to assume their common tongue is being immediately translated for your convenience.  As a result, "Hellooo" in context would be an entirely different expression that was being approximated by the words you're reading.

I get that. But there is a certain line where "translation" into pop-culture cliches can work against the suspension of disbelief. If characters spoke in "LOL WTF OMG BBQ" it would be too much. Again, this is all very subjective. 

right -

oddly enough the only time i was really struck by an 'anachronism' was when Bodahn described Sandal as a 'savant.'   

[Sloth Of Doom]

Szegedin wrote...

right -

oddly enough the only time i was really struck by an 'anachronism' was when Bodahn described Sandal as a 'savant.'   

You found a word from the 18th century anachronistic but not phrases from the 21st?

[maxernst]

I'm actually more bothered by the curious use of the word "apostate" in the game. Since Morrigan has never taken any vows or joined a chantry, she cannot be apostate. She may be anathema, but not apostate. Alistair or Zevran could possibly be viewed as apostates by the Templars/Crows, but not Morrigan.

[simplificationizer]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

The "epic fail" line cracked me up the first time I heard that, too. The rest of their lines were great, as well. But that line in specific was a laugh at loud moment.

I guess that really goes to show how a seemingly minor point can effect people differently.   Not only did it ****** me off enough to make me stop playing DA for a day, it made me wonder who inn their right mind wrote it, and more importantly who approved it.   It is by far the most disingenuous, low-browed idiocy in the game. As far as I am concerned, adding something like that is as retarded as adding genlocks that screaming "LOL PWNED! NOOB!" so 12 year-olds can laugh and tell their friends how 1337 the game is.

Does that come across as harsh? How about "Easily one of the ten worst moments in video games this decade"?

Yes. It bugged me that much.

How exactly is "epic fail" disingenuous?

Anyway, it got a chuckle out of me. It's not exactly witty or tasteful like the humour in the BG series, but it was a one time thing (that I noticed). One of the ten worst moments in video games this decade? Now you're just trolling.

[KahnyaGnorc]

I remember in BG, coming across a trio of kobolds, I believe, that introduced themselves (well the one introduced them) with "Hello, I'm Larry. This is my brother Darell, and this is my other brother Darell." or something similar. It was a bit immersion-breaking, but I though it was a funny little Easter Egg. I feel the same way with the "immersion-breaking" quips in DA.

[Sresla]

And yet, when Zevran says, "We are ridiculously awesome" I love it. He's right, we are awesome. We just got through that entire battle without a scratch. Take that, Darkspawn! It didn't bother me one bit.

[Kwanzaabot]

So.. you want everyone to speak old english? Good luck understanding a word of that.

[SheffSteel]

The characters aren't supposed to be speaking English; we're supposed to be reading a translation. A good translation is a translation into a form of language that the readers can understand and will appreciate.



Perhaps in this case, most readers were expecting something more old-fashioned, with plenty of thees and thous. But for many, that just smacks of embarassing renaissance-faire nerdiness. It's tricky.

[cmathews03]

I think what a lot of you fail to understand is that the incorporation of "modern speech" or more colloquial expressions is not equivalent to implementing anachronisms. Mind you, the two may be equally annoying, given the context of the game, and the modernisms may break immersion, but anachronisms and modern phrases are mutually exclusive.



"OMGWTFBBQ, these Darkspawn are about to pwn us" is not anachronistic, for instance.

[SheffSteel]

cmathews03 wrote...

I think what a lot of you fail to understand is that the incorporation of "modern speech" or more colloquial expressions is not equivalent to implementing anachronisms. Mind you, the two may be equally annoying, given the context of the game, and the modernisms may break immersion, but anachronisms and modern phrases are mutually exclusive.

"OMGWTFBBQ, these Darkspawn are about to pwn us" is not anachronistic, for instance.

That remark is so two pages ago.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Kwanzaabot wrote...

So.. you want everyone to speak old english? Good luck understanding a word of that.

Ithink you fail to understand what anachronistic means

@Sheffsteel, you are correct that thins should be put into conventional english in ordr to be properly understood.  A whole bunch of 'thee-ing' and 'thou-ing' would be terrible, especially since 90% of people use those wrds incorrectly anyways.

Of course, just because something is put into a modern language does not mean that it has it contain modern ideas (that would be anachronistic) such as internet memes.  Shoud we see lolcat posters in Denerim? Maybe Alistair can Rickroll someone?  Should Stens cream "Don't tase me, Bro!" as he rushes into combat?

[Sloth Of Doom]

cmathews03 wrote...

I think what a lot of you fail to understand is that the incorporation of "modern speech" or more colloquial expressions is not equivalent to implementing anachronisms. Mind you, the two may be equally annoying, given the context of the game, and the modernisms may break immersion, but anachronisms and modern phrases are mutually exclusive.

"OMGWTFBBQ, these Darkspawn are about to pwn us" is not anachronistic, for instance.

Anachronisms are things that are located at a time when it could not have existed or occurred, or the utilization of an event, a person, an object, language in a time when that event, person, or object was not in existence. 

Although DA isn't in our 'timeline'  I think it is fairy obvious that it analogous to a time before computers. Since "pwn" came about only because of a common typo on an QWERTY keyboard, "pwn" is anachronistic to the DA setting.  It could be argued (although anyone being serious about it is probably a complete idiot) that OMG and WTF -could- be shorthand, however unlikely.  Even if I were to grant you that (which I don't) there is n reason for us to believe that Fereldens posses bar-b-ques.   So again, anachronistic.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 03 février 2010 - 10:41 .

[selfsurf]

are you guys seriously having this conversation?

[Kwanzaabot]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Ithink you fail to understand what anachronistic means

"Ana" means "anti" or "against", and "chronistic" means pretty much "time". So against the time period. As in, modern expressions in a medieval setting. It's not rocket science. <_<

The thing is, Dragon Age is loosely based on England in 1200 AD. So, yeah. Old English was the common tongue at the time.

Modifié par Kwanzaabot, 03 février 2010 - 10:51 .