292 réponses à ce sujet

[Winged Silver]

Are there are actually no other games currently released that one could compare DAI to? Because I absolutely think whenever there are companies out there that do something better, it's worth making note of and potentially bringing to Bioware's attention. But with the TW3...it's not out yet. Even assuming everything posted about it is absolutely true and holistic of the entire game, we're still only seeing snippets. 

 

I would love to play the game so many people are envisioning for TW3 right now. It sounds fantastic. But I'm rather ambivalent as to how the reality will hold up. I'm not saying that the game will be good or bad, but that it's tough living up to ideals.

[Dutch]

Puzzles in various forms.
Political intrigue.
Hunting
Dragon Fights.
Judgements (forgot them the last time).
Collecting.
Dialog.
Exploration.
Large expansive side quests.
Short simple side quests.
Large expansive main quests.
Short simple main quests. (granted the last two aren't really 'optional')
Various ways to solve your problems in the game. You can rush through the game and complete it and still get a good result or you can take your time and do things the *right* way and get different results (What Pride Had Wrought, Wicked Eyes)
etc, etc, ad naseum.

Name me one "large expansive side quest".

All of the side-quests in this game were rushed and lazily created. Even the nifty haunted house side quest.

[AmberDragon]

Agreed.

 

With that being said, Bioware used to make side quests just like the one used as an example. DAI was just lacking.

Agreed, and DAI did have some quests like that as well, so again holding up a pre-release video as if it is of the finished game is just being silly. For all anyone knows, outside of those few who currently know exactly what's in the finished game, that could be the only decent side quest in the game the rest could be fetch quests. The point is until Witcher 3 is released and we are playing it no one knows what percentage of side quests are what seem like pointless fetch quests and what percentage are like the one in the video.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

Dragon Age vs The Witcher.

 

[In Exile]

The polish currency is worth a lot less than the US dollar. So if you put the two sums up against eachother, it will look like CDPR are starving their employees. They aren't. Stuff costs less over there than in the US, so in the end its just about the same.

 

I don't think anyone was suggesting they're not being fairly compensated. Just that given how obscene AAA development costs now, a company developing AAA software offshore has a lot of advances in terms of their HR-related expenses. Mostly, I think AlanC9 was suggesting CDPR is actually pretty comparable to Bioware. 

 

And more to the point, with the number of games they've created, they're as "young" as Bioware was circa making BG2 (or NWN1 depending on how you count MDK). 

[BountyhunterGER]

Uh, no.
The fact that you needed Iron Bull to jump to get that one in the Hinterlands by the dragon. That made my day. Not

Since I never play Qunari and never took Iron Bull to the Hinterlands I do not know what you are talking about. (and yes, I've collected every shard with barely any problems.. a few less of them would have been nice though)

[In Exile]

Name me one "large expansive side quest".

All of the side-quests in this game were rushed and lazily created. Even the nifty haunted house side quest.

 

Was there a large "side" quests in DA:O or even DA2, which was basically all cinematic side quests? Mostly the good quests were minor stuff that came alongside a main quest that instead of being a module was effectively spread across different areas. Look at, for example, the Circle Tower + Fade segment. Not a lot of dialogue, no real variety in major things, just a corridor run + the Fade with a few minor things to do on the way. A Paragon of Her Kind had lots of interesting quests along the way and the quest chain was very well developed and very well integrated into the area, but again, there was no "large" "side" quests in that run. 

 

Bioware doesn't do large side quests. The reason DA:I doesn't work is that the ass quest design Bioware used got exposed on two levels: (i) they cut away a lot of the cutscenes they usually better the side quests with, meaning you don't talk to NPCs as much, and they cut away the end-game choices that were kind of cosmetic; in Jaws of Hakkon you basically get exactly the same quests you had in e.g. DA2; and (ii) the main quests aren't broken up across different areas of the map in a kind of continuous way with the side questing, but are a separate module where all you're doing is the MQ. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Don't even need to post Witcher to prove the side quests suck, just go back to DA2 to see it. The worst Bioware Rpg has better side quests.

[Bioware-Critic]

So, this much smaller, much younger company, can do things in such greater detail.

Wow, really wow

Sad really

 

They not only CAN do it ... they also WILL do it!

AND EVEN WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO - INSTEAD OF JUMPING OFF THE BOAT!

 

LOL! THAT'S ... where BioWare need's to pay attention!

 

Customers are not stupid, EA!

If you want to ... "pay bigger bills" ... PAY MORE ATTENTION!

 

 

Sad.

REALLY SAD!

[BountyhunterGER]

 

THAT'S ... where BioWare need's to pay attention!

 

Customers are not stupid, EA!

If you want to ... "pay bigger bills" ... PAY MORE ATTENTION!

Yes Bioware, PAY MORE ATTENTION AND RELEASE A "THE WITCHER"-CLONE!

 

Sad.

Really sad!

 

(I am sorry I could not refuse to write this )

[Dutch]

Agreed, and DAI did have some quests like that as well, so again holding up a pre-release video as if it is of the finished game is just being silly. For all anyone knows, outside of those few who currently know exactly what's in the finished game, that could be the only decent side quest in the game the rest could be fetch quests. The point is until Witcher 3 is released and we are playing it no one knows what percentage of side quests are what seem like pointless fetch quests and what percentage are like the one in the video.

Can you name me one fetch quest in DA:I that is near similar to this quest I showed you? It shouldn't be hard right?

[Dutch]

Was there a large "side" quests in DA:O or even DA2, which was basically all cinematic side quests? Mostly the good quests were minor stuff that came alongside a main quest that instead of being a module was effectively spread across different areas. Look at, for example, the Circle Tower + Fade segment. Not a lot of dialogue, no real variety in major things, just a corridor run + the Fade with a few minor things to do on the way. A Paragon of Her Kind had lots of interesting quests along the way and the quest chain was very well developed and very well integrated into the area, but again, there was no "large" "side" quests in that run.

Bioware doesn't do large side quests. The reason DA:I doesn't work is that the ass quest design Bioware used got exposed on two levels: (i) they cut away a lot of the cutscenes they usually better the side quests with, meaning you don't talk to NPCs as much, and they cut away the end-game choices that were kind of cosmetic; in Jaws of Hakkon you basically get exactly the same quests you had in e.g. DA2; and (ii) the main quests aren't broken up across different areas of the map in a kind of continuous way with the side questing, but are a separate module where all you're doing is the MQ.

And you still didn't name me one long expansive side quest.

[Gileadan]

Why do people keep bringing up "witcher clone"?

 

People are merely wishing for higher quality side content with quests that maybe have a choice somewhere and a camera not a dozen yards away from the conversation and such. Something more engaging than "Hi, what's your problem?" - fetch - "There you go."  More Crestwood style, less found letter garbage.

 

There's nothing wrong with the occasional fetch quest. I sometimes like to play "simple content" too. But that's not what I buy BioWare games for, and I would wager that's true for a lot of people. Less quantity. More quality. That is not a too unreasonable thing to ask, and it's not about cloning any other game.

[BountyhunterGER]

Why do people keep bringing up "witcher clone"?

 

People are merely wishing for higher quality side content with quests that maybe have a choice somewhere and a camera not a dozen yards away from the conversation and such. Something more engaging than "Hi, what's your problem?" - fetch - "There you go."  More Crestwood style, less found letter garbage.

 

There's nothing wrong with the occasional fetch quest. I sometimes like to play "simple content" too. But that's not what I buy BioWare games for, and I would wager that's true for a lot of people. Less quantity. More quality. That is not a too unreasonable thing to ask, and it's not about cloning any other game.

I agree that the game is flawed. I agree that more quality and less quantity would be good. This is however the probably the millionth time I have to read "look at the witcher - look at the witcher btw LOOK AT THE WITCHER!!11!" which makes my head hurt very bad.

[Dutch]

I agree that the game is flawed. I agree that more quality and less quantity would be good. This is however the probably the millionth time I have to read "look at the witcher - look at the witcher btw LOOK AT THE WITCHER!!11!" which makes my head hurt very bad.

Then ignore and don't come into this thread with your asinine posts.

[Winged Silver]

Why do people keep bringing up "witcher clone"?

 

People are merely wishing for higher quality side content with quests that maybe have a choice somewhere and a camera not a dozen yards away from the conversation and such. Something more engaging than "Hi, what's your problem?" - fetch - "There you go."  More Crestwood style, less found letter garbage.

 

There's nothing wrong with the occasional fetch quest. I sometimes like to play "simple content" too. But that's not what I buy BioWare games for, and I would wager that's true for a lot of people. Less quantity. More quality. That is not a too unreasonable thing to ask, and it's not about cloning any other game.

 

I agree, it's absolutely not an unreasonable thing to ask. I think the people who are grumbling on this thread (myself included) are just doing so because the OP is comparing a game to one that has not been released yet (and this is...what, I think the 2nd, maybe 3rd time?). 

 

I maintain my stance that the OP should either choose a game they like that's already been released and experienced, or should wait to post these threads until after TW3 has been released, and they've had a chance to actually play the game. As it is right now, all I'm seeing in "DAI - why weren't you as good as my idealized vision of TW3?"

 

Having faith in a company is great, and I'm glad the OP has such high expectations. It's just a little irksome to see this sort of "comparison" made, when no one has all the information needed to make this a fair comparison/assertion.

[Bioware-Critic]

Yes Bioware, PAY MORE ATTENTION AND RELEASE A "THE WITCHER"-CLONE!

 

Sad.

Really sad!

 

(I am sorry I could not refuse to write this )

 

I would never want them to produce a clone of any sort! Save for a clone of DA:Origins !!!

 

But I truly think that they should stay closer to their RPG roots and diverge less into the area of mainstream BS!

Mainstream BS like ... a "12 twelve headed beast", that tries to be everything at once - and in the end is nothing at all!

Like DA:I is ...

 

They should develope the RPG elements much more - like they did in the past! Instead of opening up the games they produce too much (for the casuals).

If they want to call this "hack-and-slash-wash" a RPG ... they should at least try and make one!

 

Hell! A lot of companies can make RPG's instead of them. BioWare doesn't need to lie about it.

Just write "Hack 'n' Slash / Action Adventure" on the box. But stop the false advertising! It's really irritating ...

[BountyhunterGER]

Then ignore and don't come into this thread with your asinine posts.

Alright I'll try to ignore this asinine thread .. now I really need a drink: there are things to forget!

[Shechinah]

(to Gileadan) I think the problem lies in how people communicate this desire because there is nothing wrong with being dissatisfied with how you saw quests being handled and wanting it more to your liking especially if you saw it as favoring quantity over quality but unlike your comment which goes into clarification and detailing of what you want and what you disliked, the opening post links to a video and does not. 

 

Linking to a video that you feel do a good job of outlining and representing what you want is a good idea but I feel it better benefits your feedback to outline your post what you specifically wanted to be implemented and what you disliked about how the quests were done.   

 

Only linking a video which can contain a lot of different content and/or saying "I want all of this" can be taken to mean a lot of things; I want more fighting, I want more swearing, I want more dialogue, I want the reward to be satisfactory, I want to be able to kill people, I want a camera angle return, I want to explore more, I want different enviroment and so forth.

 

I have no problem with people comparing and discussing games including what content they'd like to see be implemented or how they feel an aspect from one game can benefit or improve upon the aspect of another but it is the way people sometimes go about doing this that can bother me a bit because it can end up muddying their message, intent or request.

 

As a note; I have no problem with the "Witcher" series nor an opinion of it since I've never played it but I do wish people would wait with comparison until release when people have seen the entirety of the game and it can be judged as intended; by being played.     

[Bioware-Critic]

I agree that the game is flawed. I agree that more quality and less quantity would be good. This is however the probably the millionth time I have to read "look at the witcher - look at the witcher btw LOOK AT THE WITCHER!!11!" which makes my head hurt very bad.

 

Internet communication and also forum discussion aaaaaand on top of that heated BSN rants are like this all the way!

But of course you know this all too well So ... DEAL WITH IT!

 

It's not pretty. In fact it is SAD But there you go!

You cannot criticise people on the BSN for this. Nobody enjoys this any more than you do ...

INTERNET COMMUNICATION ISN'T PERFECT - IT'S FULL OF COMPROMISES.

[Bioware-Critic]

I agree, it's absolutely not an unreasonable thing to ask. I think the people who are grumbling on this thread (myself included) are just doing so because the OP is comparing a game to one that has not been released yet (and this is...what, I think the 2nd, maybe 3rd time?). 

 

I maintain my stance that the OP should either choose a game they like that's already been released and experienced, or should wait to post these threads until after TW3 has been released, and they've had a chance to actually play the game. As it is right now, all I'm seeing in "DAI - why weren't you as good as my idealized vision of TW3?"

 

Having faith in a company is great, and I'm glad the OP has such high expectations. It's just a little irksome to see this sort of "comparison" made, when no one has all the information needed to make this a fair comparison/assertion.

 

This is a forum and on top of that the feedback section - people can write whatever the hell they want to as long as they mean it sincerely and stay polite!

 

I think that the point of Dutch is valid and that the example from tW3 is a fine example, too and of course BioWare SHOULD take notice that RPG fans like Dutch and others prefer it over their approach to sidequests in DA:I!

 

I also think, that Dutch is honest and open about it all and not at all "off topic" here with this thread ...

 

 

You should rethink your stance on his thread, Winged Silver

Keep an open mind and respect honest and open discussions. They are important.

[Bioware-Critic]

I wish I had a witty gif to post here. 

 

Well, find one and post it!

 

... I am waiting ...

[Bioware-Critic]

Yep! And now old BW fans like myself are left wondering where the soul of DA went.

I hate capitalism sometimes. I understand why it works the way it does and I also see no alternative, but it's ruinous for diversity in popular arts.

 

Capitalism ... in the market and in the VG industry ...

DOESN'T WORK AT ALL !!!

 

It is out of control! And as long as lies sell better than the goods they try to market ... all of this is clearly NOT "working"

But I would guess, you know that

 

The market and the rules of the market need to be controlled. Corruption prevents this! So does the greed and the almighty power of the publishers ...

Which completes the cirlce.

 

The goal of capitalism should be efficiency in all things and all areas of human culture and society and "stimulated growth" of everything that is important to us and also scientific exact calculations when spending our precious resources ... Which would be necessary to evolve all of mankind! ... not the power of greed of a few lonely narcissists, who don't like to share - ANYTHING, really !!!

 

 

And the VG market should produce REAL GAMES ... not MONEY!

 

 

But the byproduct is far more important than the real goals, now - in both cases!

Which is simply ... "perverted nature"!

 

 

None of this is "working" - CLEARLY

[Winged Silver]

This is a forum and ontop of that the feedback section - people can write whatever the hell they want to as long as they mean it sincerely and stay polite!

 

I think that the point of Dutch is valid and that the example from tW3 is a fine example, too and of course BioWare SHOULD take notice that RPG fans like Dutch and others prefer it over their approach with DA:I!

 

I also think, that Dutch is honest and open about it all and not at all "off topic" here with this thread ...

 

 

You should rethink your stance on his thread, my friend

Keep an open mind and respect honest and open discussions. They are important.

 

Absolutely - they can write whatever they want, and as a forum poster, I'm allowed to share my opinions as well. I haven't been impolite to the OP, I've only implied that I think their argument is fallacious. 

 

I also never stated that he was off topic. I implied that the nature of his posts were, at best, primarily ungrounded. What do we have to compare to DAI from TW3? A trailer? A list of settlements, with little to no details on how they are structured? To me, these do not make for a good comparison. The OP seems to have issues with DAI. That's totally fine, we're all entitled to our opinions. I just wish he'd post about what he thinks went wrong, and how they could improve, rather than continually post about how DAI doesn't compare to a game that has yet to be released to the public. 

 

I fully support open discussion, but I'm wary of discussion that tries to compare something we have solid evidence of, with something we've only seen glimpses of. I have no issues with the comparison of TW3 with DAI itself, but I believe many of these posts would be far more useful and constructive if the posters would wait until after the game they are trying to make comparisons off of was actually released.

 

I would ask that you take into consideration what I have mentioned.