292 réponses à ce sujet

[mjb203]

You know, I don't think they would have gotten half as much rage about the ending if they hadn't been telling people that the game would have 16 (I think it was 16) endings, and that all the choices in the previous two games would have real impact on the endings. They kept talking a lot about that stuff during the marketing of the game.

Yeah, they do tend to say "X amount of different endings!!!" when they really mean, "3 main endings with variations on choices you've made during the game".  They try to up the number and then act surprised when people think they meant unique endings, instead of variations on a main ending.  I consider DA:O as only having 4 endings (Warden died, Alistair died, or Loghain died, or Dark Ritual), everything else being variations on those endings.

[Rawgrim]

4 endings for DA:O sounds right.

[Winged Silver]

^ Those 4 endings are all you need for the perfectionist achievement (you've no idea how long I spent staring moodily at that achievement, thinking I needed to get every possible ending slide XD) 

 

Bioware should just be like "So....we've got three endings. Sorry" and then pleasantly surprise everyone with five endings...or something (just stop saying you have multiple endings when it's not really...like that)

[mjb203]

^ Those 4 endings are all you need for the perfectionist achievement (you've no idea how long I spent staring moodily at that achievement, thinking I needed to get every possible ending slide XD) 

 

Bioware should just be like "So....we've got three endings. Sorry" and then pleasantly surprise everyone with five endings...or something (just stop saying you have multiple endings when it's not really...like that)

I thought the same thing too about that achievement!  Glad I wasn't the only one.

[In Exile]

Because ME3 was a dumbed down shooter, and almost all of the rpg elements were gone.

If ME1 had RPG elements then DAI is a mechanical masterpiece with a level of complexity as yet unseen on this earth.

[In Exile]

[Double post ]

[In Exile]

Well you can't really take away the dialogue when you want more story elements in a side quest. But BG2 really had some good side quests. One of them even gave you a Stronghold (entirely optional). And if you agreed to take over the place (different stronghold for each class) you got some extra quests later on regarding that too. That is what I call a great side quest.

Ultima was made by Origin. the Bioware of the 80s and 90s. That series went downhill after EA took over too. Strangely enough the games EA released in that series removed more and more rpg elements, and added more and more action elements. Like jumping puzzles and the like. Now where have I seen that happen lately? Hmm....

When I say "take away the dialogue" I mean that Bioware quests always reduce to a very straightforward kill X or find Y. You don't have quests where you have to investigate first by talking to multiple parties. You don't have quests that branch internally in complicated ways.

The Stronghold is definetly the best example of a Bioware type quest... but it's really a quest chain, tied to class. That's not a criticism. But it's actually more similar to how Bioware did the MQs in DAO.

This is the issue a lot of RPG designers' have with quests. Aside from the occasionally clever reward and dialogue the quest itself is a linear thing in terms of its actual design.

[mjb203]

If ME1 had RPG elements then DAI is a mechanical masterpiece with a level of complexity as yet unseen on this earth.

You mean RPG elements like being a white knight or an a-hole, letting the Ascension blow up or saving it, hanging up on the Council or not, killing Wrex or talking him down (or Ash killing him), helping Kirrahe's team or not, talking Saren into killing himself or not, etc. etc.?  Or do you mean RPG elements like character builds? 

 

DAI was at best on par with that level of choice in the judgements and companion interaction.

[In Exile]

You mean RPG elements like being a white knight or an a-hole, letting the Ascension blow up or saving it, hanging up on the Council or not, killing Wrex or talking him down (or Ash killing him), helping Kirrahe's team or not, talking Saren into killing himself or not, etc. etc.? Or do you mean RPG elements like character builds?

DAI was at best on par with that level of choice in the judgements and companion interaction.

I mean mechanics, yes. That was the joke.

In terms of choices and characterisation DAI is really different from ME. In that game Shepard was pretty static and quest content was more varied unless you were talking about sidequests with the UEWs which were even worse than DAI (and that's really saying a lot).

[Dai Grepher]

The liar guy in the vid sounds like Blackwall. Same voice actor?

 

Anyway, a decent quest with some decent storyline. Nothing spectacular though. Also, I didn't like how the wheel tracks light up and other gameplay mechanics like that. I think it should just be something the player observes as is. And the character calling out the obvious kind of breaks the immersion.

[Gintoki4869]

Another great suggestion, excited for the next one.

[Sidney]

Name one.

Still Waters and Still Ruins just to double up on your request.

[Dutch]

Still Waters and Still Ruins just to double up on your request.

Oh yes...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz some great fleshed out side quests, eh?

[Eelectrica]

Just saw the video. That's how to do side quests. Starts out as a simple fetch quest and becomes something.

The DAI version would have had our Inquisitor pick up the box, bring it back for +2 power and 50XP.

 

Doesn't have to be epic, but it still had an interesting side story and options on how to solve it.

Adds replayabilty and lets us roleplay our character.

 

Hell of a lot better than following a quest marker and planting flags.

[AlanC9]

You know, I don't think they would have gotten half as much rage about the ending if they hadn't been telling people that the game would have 16 (I think it was 16) endings, and that all the choices in the previous two games would have real impact on the endings. They kept talking a lot about that stuff during the marketing of the game.

Bio never said 16. That was IGN.

[Eelectrica]

(to Dutch) But what if there is the possibility that this small menial sidequest is an exception to how the small menial sidequest in this installment of the "Witcher" will usually play out?

If that's the case which is certainly a possibility, then I would expect people to be asking CDPR what happened. How did they go from mildly interesting side quest to mind numbly dull ones and be taken to task accordingly.

[Al Foley]

Name one.

Any of the taking of the Forts.  (so three)

The tombs of Fairiel.  

Chateu d'Onterre

The Knight's Tomb

All of the lay the ramparts to rest/ undead ramparts in the Exalted Plains (So...five?)

For the Empire

Lost Souls

 

And that is all I want to touch right now but that is not all the side quests that I enjoyed, though it is certainly quite high up there in the memorable department.  Also compiling this list also makes me appreciate the Emerald Graves a lot more.  

 

Plus throw in the main quests which I loved every one (minus perhaps In Hushed Whispers), and the great companion and adviser quests...

 

Oh yes...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz some great fleshed out side quests, eh?

You asked for quests he enjoyed, you got your answer.  

 

^ Those 4 endings are all you need for the perfectionist achievement (you've no idea how long I spent staring moodily at that achievement, thinking I needed to get every possible ending slide XD) 

 

Bioware should just be like "So....we've got three endings. Sorry" and then pleasantly surprise everyone with five endings...or something (just stop saying you have multiple endings when it's not really...like that)

DA I did.  All the main quests where you die you get a different ending.  So there is...what eight right there.  Plus the staggering number of different slides based on your actions...etc...etc...

[b10d1v]

Al, Bioware forums often look that way concerning DAI -Its hard to believe the outcome range from "it never worked" to "no problems at all" but there it is tied up in a lot of emotion.

 

What I took from the video (taking account for much of the dynamic loss over u-tube) was the game dynamics.  Old tech would be to use a cinematic of a horse moving on a game background (picture on a picture) and progress to an NPC horse with its animation models moving on the rendered game surface and the game reacting to the horse being there -BIg difference in processing power!  Frostbite is superior when they can control the boundary effects that cause so many distortions.

 

I also became fed up with the fetch quests  "what's the point and often WTF"  over some of the logic and poor linkage to the story -Much of this falls under QA in the first round cleaning up the obvious stuff and then QA continues to review and improve.  Much of DAI's programmatic failure is centered in management of QA processes and not its creativity.

[Kulyok]

I don't want any side quests like this one, if it means a male-only protagonist for the entire game. And flowers on the grave was a lovely little quest, by the way. I admit, collecting ram meat and receiving sidequests via notes wasn't the best experience, but I'd rather have that and play my female elf than touch the Witcher series.

[Sartoz]

I think you meant your thread title to be...

 

"Attention Bioware, this is how the folks who make Witcher do side quests.  As you are a different company that doesn't have anything to do with the Witcher series, it really has nothing to do with you, so I'm not  sure why I posted a video about Witcher in the Bioware forum, but oh well, what the heck." 

 

Not sure if that would exceed title length limits, though.

 

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How easy you forget that this is a FEEDBACK thread.

 

Pointing out better quest mechanics is something Bio wants to know. Look how often Bio mentioned Skyrim in their interviews.  In any case, Laidlaw has mentioned he plays other non Bio games... for inspirations, ideas... etc.

[Sartoz]

^ Those 4 endings are all you need for the perfectionist achievement (you've no idea how long I spent staring moodily at that achievement, thinking I needed to get every possible ending slide XD) 

 

Bioware should just be like "So....we've got three endings. Sorry" and then pleasantly surprise everyone with five endings...or something (just stop saying you have multiple endings when it's not really...like that)

LOL!

 

But then they have nothing to say in their promos...

[Sartoz]

Just saw the video. That's how to do side quests. Starts out as a simple fetch quest and becomes something.

The DAI version would have had our Inquisitor pick up the box, bring it back for +2 power and 50XP.

 

Doesn't have to be epic, but it still had an interesting side story and options on how to solve it.

Adds replayabilty and lets us roleplay our character.

 

Hell of a lot better than following a quest marker and planting flags.

 

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Quite true. But EA's mantra is simplify.. simplify so that our games have a broader appeal that is attractive to the casual player.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

...and are developed more quickly for half the price.

[otis0310]

I don't want any side quests like this one, if it means a male-only protagonist for the entire game. And flowers on the grave was a lovely little quest, by the way. I admit, collecting ram meat and receiving sidequests via notes wasn't the best experience, but I'd rather have that and play my female elf than touch the Witcher series.

 

I love my female elf too.  The only reason I can actually tolerate this game is that other than DAO which I have played to death, and Neverwinter Nights 1 &2 (the first one aged really badly) this is the only game that lets me play a female elf.

 

Still it would be nice to have better side quests, or a better main quest for that matter.

 

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Quite true. But EA's mantra is simplify.. simplify so that our games have a broader appeal that is attractive to the casual player.

 

They have acutally released a press statement to that effect, they think some of their games might take up to two hours to learn?  The horror! That is way too long in their opinion.  They also said that all games should be multiplayer and all games should have some RPG elements like exp. and levelling.

 

So in short you should expect every game from EA to be carbon copies of each other.  You would think a company that large would want to diversify into several genres rather than try to collate all of them into one.  Look at Take 2 with Civilization and Bioshock, they do not try to make Civ into Bioshock do they?  No, different people like different games so they diversify in order to make games that appeals to everyone. 

 

EA takes the opposite approach, they take every game and try to make them the all the same, which means they re narrowing their target to a niche market.

They sell games that appeal only to casual gamers that like simple games.

Of those casual gamers they only sell to those who like RPG elements.

Of those casual gamers who like RPG elements they only sell to those who also like multiplayer.

 

Now I admit that maybe the average 15 year old might fall into that category.  However narrowing your entire product line to that small niche makes very poor business sense to me.  Take 2 has the idea that some people like FPS games, so they make Bioshock, other people like turn based strategy games, so they make Civilization as well.  Their idea of diversifying their product line to hit several markets makes a lot more sense than streamlining your entire product line to fit one niche, probably a large niche, but still a niche market.

 

You won't believe how happy I am that EA's bid to buy Take 2 failed.  Not to mention that if I bought Civilization game that took LESS than two hours to learn, I would be livid.

[KBomb]

I don't want any side quests like this one, if it means a male-only protagonist for the entire game. And flowers on the grave was a lovely little quest, by the way. I admit, collecting ram meat and receiving sidequests via notes wasn't the best experience, but I'd rather have that and play my female elf than touch the Witcher series.

So, you'd rather have quests that are mundane than to play a male protagonist?

In TW3, you actually get the chance to play as Ciri a bit. You still have the chance to shape Geralt into his own personality.

Personally, I would rather play a game that had deep and meaningful quests. Customizing your own character is excellent, but if the quests are boring- I would trade it for a uncustomized character any day.