Legal issues isn't something new. All those loudy copyright laws is what was actually created to solve those issues. i see no reson why this system won't work with paid mods.
If modders are getting paid for their work then they're using the game company's hard work in developing the original product for profit.
Modders do this as a hobby. It was not their idea in the first place to profit from this. It never was.They were perfectly okay modifying their game files and sharing it with the rest. Free of charge. They already have the "donation" button at the nexus sites, in case you wanna reward their work. Can't you see this is big companies trying to monetize mods? As if they didn't have enough with DLC's...
Do you think this benefits the modders at all? Do you honestly think this is worth all the drama it will bring to the modding community?
Of course, nothing like this has happened yet. Big business may have built the paywall, but only the modders can decide to put stuff behind it.
The key word here is 'yet'.
This is a very slippery slope indeed. Allow it to gain traction and the sky's the limit.
This may sound like ludicrous and extreme scaremongering but can actually imagine a future in which my copy of Skyrim (which probably has around 35+ mods running) will be frozen by Valve unless all the installed (and newly monetized) mods are paid for. Assuming the typical price is 10 euros, that works out at around 350 euros.
I'm not paying for mods, period. I'm sick of this industry nickle and diming consumers over every little thing. This just gives more devs a reason to not release a full game. Just go ahead and release a skeleton game and a tool kit then sit back and watch money fall into your pocket. I'm also not a fan of valves "hands off" approach to dealing with modding. A 24hr window isn't really enough when any update to the game can cause a mod to not work months after buying it and theives are already stealing mods.
Then there is the collaboration issue. A modder taking another mod that isn't theirs and creating a new mod. Who gets paid? They can't split the chump change given. And will the person who's mod was stolen get justice? smh.
Personally, I wouldn't even mind a paid mod system if it's done under Nexus or something and even then I would be weary. I just don't trust Valve with handling it because they don't know how to handle anything. Hell they can't even handle a refund.
Overall, I think Valve will be looking to shut down any site with free mods on it to further encourage gamers to purchase their mods. There is no way anyone would buy mods if they can get them for free somewhere else.
Well, that's the problem with slippery slope arguments. You end up arguing against something that doesn't actually exist. And remember, your problem in this case would be with the mod authors themselves.The key word here is 'yet'.
This is a very slippery slope indeed. Allow it to gain traction and the sky's the limit.
This may sound like ludicrous and extreme scaremongering but can actually imagine a future in which my copy of Skyrim (which probably has around 35+ mods running) will be frozen by Valve unless all the installed (and newly monetized) mods are paid for. Assuming the typical price is 10 euros, that works out at around 350 euros.
Modders do this as a hobby. It was not their idea in the first place to profit from this. It never was.They were perfectly okay modifying their game files and sharing it with the rest. Free of charge.
You're putting words in a lot of people's mouths. Obviously there are people who want/need to get paid for their work. Some modders have said as much in this thread. People who choose to mod for free still can.
Do you honestly think this is worth all the drama it will bring to the modding community?
I think we are a very dramatic species and we just need to accept that and/or join the qun.
There's also something else to consider on the modding side of the question. If I were to buy a mod, I would expect full QA to have been done. I would expect to see a list of mods that it is and isn't compatible with. I would expect to be provided with full support after purchase if something goes wrong. All things I would not expect with a free mod. Why? Because a free mod is a free mod. I'm not paying anything, therefore my expectations are significantly lower. But if I've paid money for the mod then I expect and (under consumer law in my country) am entitled to receive a product that works. If it does not work, I am then entitled to expect it to be repaired or to receive a full refund and/or compensation.
And here's where it gets a little more murky and interesting and slightly off on a tangent because we're now moving from the modder to Steam - under Australian law, a company is not allowed to provide a refund as store credit. They must refund you the money you paid. Now Steam isn't an Australian company but the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) has been successful in forcing other multinational and international companies (Apple comes to mind) to abide by our consumer laws.
Now you might say that Steam would just ignore that but I have personal experience with this. I initially purchased Civ 5 through Steam and was unable to download it, let alone install it. After going back and forth with Steam customer service (and Maker, aren't they just appalling at customer service!) and having the case go to a manager, I eventually demanded a refund out of sheer frustration. They first said they couldn't, then they offered a refund as 'store credit'. When I refused that, they held firm. Then when I said that I knew Australian consumer law entitled me to a full refund, they backed down immediately and I got my money refunded onto my credit card. So from that I took it that they damn well know they have to abide by our laws but they just hope we don't know that.
Just a heads up, Steam just scrapped this whole idea due to the backlash. Hopefully that dissuades anyone else...though I doubt it.
Just a heads up, Steam just scrapped this whole idea due to the backlash. Hopefully that dissuades anyone else...though I doubt it.
Here's the announcement:
http://steamcommunit...632365253244218
Valve will undoubtedly try it again with another game probably a new one.
I suspect it will be more successful if rolled out the same time that the game is released (rather than years after an established mod community has already been created).Given the way that statement is worded, I'm certain they'll try again, but with a new game.
Wow, really?
75%?
That seems a bit much.
So, one can either continue their hobby and put stuff up for free as usual (maybe), or they can put a price tag on it, discouraging people from trying it out, and not seeing any money since it is going to someone else.
Valve takes a minimum 30% cut off of any game sold on Steam already, this pricing is not wholly outrageous for Steam yet, since a part of that is going to Steam and another part to the publishers/developers.
Part of me is glad that people are kind of pissed at Valve for this, but I see no problem with the selling of mods. I guess, in the end, if it does come back we shall see what happens the next time it's rolled out. Maybe the next Skyrim or Fallout will have it as part of their program.
I'm so happy that idea crashed and burned! 
Yes this was a victory for the mighty Master Race.
Still, I do not think we should just forgive Valve and Bethesda. We should not just cut them slack. We should remain vigilant. Valve and Bethesda said they won't be trying this for Skyrim but who's to say they won't try it on a new Fallout game or a new Elder Scrolls game ?
Plus Steam has lots of problems. Poor customer support, poor refund policies, Greenlight, Early Access, etc...
The main reason Valve and Bethesda decided to try this stunt was because they, especially Valve, hold such a large monopoly on PC gaming. PC gamers should and must diversify to other distributors. We need to have more competition and keep Valve on their toes, so to speak.
The same goes for Bethesda as well. Their base game, their unmodded games has been getting progressively worse. Bad UI, bugs, glitches, etc.
Additionally, the official statement on this sounds like they might try this again. They might try this on Elder Scrolls 6 or Fallout 4.
Like Grey Wardens who are vigilant of Darkspawn...Like Witchers who are vigilant of monsters...We the Master Race should be vigilant of potential future shenanigans...
I'm actually surprised they pulled it. My guess is that, on top of the public outcry, it just didn't end up selling as much as they hoped.
I also kinda hope this wakes people up to the fact that Valve is just as much of a money grubber as any other big publisher, and stop putting the company on a pedestal too.
I'm actually surprised they pulled it. My guess is that, on top of the public outcry, it just didn't end up selling as much as they hoped.
I also kinda hope this wakes people up to the fact that Valve is just as much of a money grubber as any other big publisher, and stop putting the company on a pedestal too.
GabeN is a false god.
Here's the announcement:
http://steamcommunit...632365253244218
Valve will undoubtedly try it again with another game probably a new one.
They still have e.g. Dota 2, where you can also buy overpriced items created by modders.
They still have e.g. Dota 2, where you can also buy overpriced items created by modders.
Those aren't mods, they're player created items that have been added to the actual game.
That's a remarkably frank apology from Valve. It's rare to see this level of frankness from a mainstream organisation. I'm actually rather impressed.
Having said all that (and as stated in one of the posts above), it's wise to remain vigilant. It's likely that this idea hasn't been shelved entirely, but simply placed upon the back burner until a more opportune time/game manifests.
As an aside, I'd like to imagine a scenario in which a Bioware executive released such an honest and frank explanation in relation to one of their various misdemeanors.
"Yes, we deliberately limited the action bar to only eight slots because creating an entire new interface for the PC would simply have been too much work, we needed to ship the game in a timely fashion, and therefore had other priorities that we considered more important - What you get is a pure console port with some minor modifications for PC compatibility. Sorry, but that's the way it is"
I'd have felt far better about the whole thing if such a frank admission had been released, rather than hiding it behind a wall of PR speak and making out that it was a feature.
Idiots! Pc master race? More like pc idiots race! We cold have it all, toolsets for moding, support from companies. And now it's never going to happened, enjoy your free genitalia mod for skyrim because this is all you will get, and this is all that you deserve.
Idiots! Pc master race? More like pc idiots race! We cold have it all, toolsets for moding, support from companies. And now it's never going to happened, enjoy your free genitalia mod for skyrim because this is all you will get, and this is all that you deserve.
Oh get over yourself.
Many gamers have no problems with modders being paid for their work. What we want or what we prefer is a donation based system or a crowdfunding based system. A voluntary system, not a coercive one. That way we have an option to pay or to not pay. Like on Nexus.
Bethesda would never dream of not making toolsets. Their games have the popularity and the lifespans that they do because of modding toolkits. If they do not make them for future games, they they will have lost a major fanbase, the PC market since many who buy Bethesda's games on PC, do it for mods.
EA will never bother making modding toolkits. Their business policy runs counter-intuitive to that idea.
and here i hoped studios would have an incentive to support modding community, add toolkits/world creators instead of forced MP, release patches that don't break mods and perhaps even release modding packages (textures, models, you name it)
every good idea is destroyed by greed. shame really.
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