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[Shechinah]

(to Winged Silver) I would have liked it that since your forces are still in the Arbor Wilds, all of your companions have to step up and help you make your way to Corypheus either indirectly by mobilising and leading what remains of your forces or directly by helping you. How much approval you have garnered or lost with them determines how it may go; As an example, imaging you become surrounded by, say, demons and Sera can help you deal with them but if you do not have enough approval gained with her, she will not risk her own life for you and you'll have additional enemies on your hand versus if you have high approval with her, she'll be willing to confront her fear of demons for you because it'll increases the chances of your survival.

 

I'd have absolutely adored having the unselected companions also be involved in the fighting even if it was just a moment on-screen for each and even if they are unable to help after Corypheus does his hovering trick. I loved it in DA:O, I loved it in DA:II and I would have loved it in DA:I. Here's hoping something like it might be in DA:4.

 

I always headcanon'ed that the reason they were only seen at the end after Corypheus' defeat was because they were carving out a way so the Inquisitor and their smaller party could make it through faster to Corypheus and so when they had finished the demons, Corypheus had already raised the remains of the temple and they were unable to follow.           

[Winged Silver]

(to Winged Silver) I would have liked it that since your forces are still in the Arbor Wilds, all of your companions have to step up and help you make your way to Corypheus either indirectly by mobilising and leading what remains of your forces or directly by helping you. How much approval you have garnered or lost with them determines how it may go; As an example, imaging you become surrounded by, say, demons and Sera can help you deal with them but if you do not have enough approval gained with her, she will not risk her own life for you and you'll have additional enemies on your hand versus if you have high approval with her, she'll be willing to confront her fear of demons for you because it'll increases the chances of your survival.

 

I'd have absolutely adored having the unselected companions also be involved in the fighting even if it was just a moment on-screen for each and even if they are unable to help after Corypheus does his hovering trick. I loved it in DA:O, I loved it in DA:II and I would have loved it in DA:I. Here's hoping something like it might be in DA:4.          

 

Absolutely! Bioware puts so much work in creating these characters...it'd be cool to see them acting on their own, and making decisions, based on their perception of your character. I would also love to see this in future games.

[SofaJockey]

*snip*

 

 

ok, sincerity respected.

 

Many people were hoping for a blend of DAO and DA2?

I think that's what DAI provides.

 

As far as Crestwood is concerned I was more bemused by your comment that DAI's success was down to people seeing the leaked demo. 

I remain of the view that the differences you are pointing out are minor quibbling.

 

Certainly don't want to fall out, there are simply different views on these things.

[Domiel Angelus]

ok, sincerity respected.

 

Many people were hoping for a blend of DAO and DA2?

I think that's what DAI provides.

 

As far as Crestwood is concerned I was more bemused by your comment that DAI's success was down to people seeing the leaked demo. 

I remain of the view that the differences you are pointing out are minor quibbling.

 

Certainly don't want to fall out, there are simply different views on these things.

 

I wasn't referring to anything that was leaked, strictly the things they were showing off at the various shows, Pax being one of the most well known, and I was happy that someone else had brought it up previously for me to snag that footage so you can see the changes.  I never specified Crestwood in my response, I stated test footage that they showed as in Bioware as an entity showed, not the 'leaked' demo. That is obviously not just a tech demo considering how overly enthusiastic they are about the entire thing. 

[SofaJockey]

I wasn't referring to anything that was leaked, strictly the things they were showing off at the various shows, Pax being one of the most well known, and I was happy that someone else had brought it up previously for me to snag that footage so you can see the changes.  I never specified Crestwood in my response, I stated test footage that they showed as in Bioware as an entity showed, not the 'leaked' demo. That is obviously not just a tech demo considering how overly enthusiastic they are about the entire thing. 

 

It was a pre-alpha demo of Crestwood. I've walked my Inquisitor along exactly the route shown in the demo. That it was a pre-alpha demo has been confirmed by people who attended the event and who commented on it in this forum. That features were not locked down was stated at the event. BioWare recorded no footage, the only footage was from a few folk's phones.

 

This has all been debated in numerous threads on the matter.

 

'We have dismissed that claim'...

[otis0310]

Another thread made by dedicated RPG fans to try to convince a company that is only interested in making casual multiplayers games to change their company policy.

 

EA doesn't care people. They made a press statement saying that A: their games are too hard so they have to dumb them down and B: all games should be multiplayer.

 

This means they are appealing to the 15 year old I-pad or X-Box market.  Something my nephew might like, but not me.  And it is obvious that they don't care about PC gamers or older gamers at all.

 

Take a hint people, give it up.

[Domiel Angelus]

So from what you're saying they're 'pre-alpha' work had more into it that massive parts of their released game? I managed to stave off watching any show materials or anything else until after the game was already released and in my hands and I had played at least half way in, as I didn't want spoilers of any kind. So when I first went hunting to see just what was shown after the outrages claims of "They lied" came up I wanted to know just what people were claiming they lied about.  

 

It seems to have far more polish on so many details that didn't appear in the final product, details that based on other games Bioware has produced would have had no problem appearing on the earlier generations of consoles. There's at least that much expression in a face in ME3 on 360 and there are at least that many particle effects in a given power. By showing that as a pre-alpha it makes me fear for just how many corners they actually cut to finish it for release. They showed an actual working product that had 'features that weren't locked down' and it look at least 50% more interesting than a lot of what we got. I wanted far more scenes of just talking with my team and being able to actually see how the world gets shaped by the Inquisition not just "plant a flag and open a new zone"

 

and @Otis "Never give up, Never surrender" so sayeth the toy!

[SofaJockey]

*stuff*

 

There are clearly different views. You may see it as 50% better, I just don't see it.

 

From my perspective those who were saying they made purchase decisions based on the leaked footage in 2013 and then avoided all the extensive official marketing thereafter only to complain of 'lies' at release can only be... well I won't spell it out, but it's neither complimentary nor polite.

 

Generally, early demos are often problematic as they are an attempt to produce a vertical slice of a game that's a long way from being finished. 

I would however like to see some of the things that didn't make it, in DA4.

 

Anyway, this is getting circular so I'll leave it here.

[Sartoz]

Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of folk who have sub-optimal PC UI experiences being able to say so.

I remember even pre-launch Angry Joe dropped his review of the PC version specifically by a point.

The game does appear to be very much designed with a controller in mind, I would not want to be fighting the controls.

On console, playing some MEMP this week I find the DAMP controls smoother, for example.

 

Nope, I'm sticking with the view that fewer skills still requires some thinking, sometimes more so.

 

Take DAO - I knew which were the tier 4 skills I particularly wanted and I would drive my skill progression to get them.

I would occasionally use a whole host of skills, but my focus would be on the fewer 'go-to' skills I'd use repeatedly.

 

Insight into less skills = more skill, came from the ME3 multiplayer, and the same applied to DAI and DAMP.

 

Instead of (in DAO) one build of warrior/mage/rogue with access to dozens of abilities to choose

I now (in DAI) have to identify and construct a build for a particular type of warrior/mage/rogue

and balance my party so that works in a range of circumstances.

 

Sure on Casual and probably Normal, you can run around button mashing (a play choice after all) but on harder difficulties you are using a combination of skill choice, crafting, and positioning. After playing so much DAMP I now prefer real time combat rather than tactical cam and beat the game on Hard difficulty.

 

I would welcome more complex Tactical choices and anticipate them in DA4 as I'm sure that was another feature that would have had to have been built from scratch in Frostbite 3 and clearly wasn't able to be done.

 

By all means laugh away, however I think the biggest simplifications have been involved in what passes for some of the arguments on BSN  .

 

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Now I fell in love with the ME3 co-operative multiplayer. No doubt there. But..but .. ME3 is really a shooter not a supposedly aRPG. Comparing the two?.. hm.. not sure it's proper.

 

My tactical preferences is with the previous DA AI scripts... set them up and see how well you did... change as necessary. This worked because of the addition of two critical elements. the Auto-Attack and the Auto-Lock on the enemy which are missing in DAI.

 

DAI tactics, you say? Really, the AI is suffering from having Alzeimer stuck on his shoulders. I still remember my first Hinterlands battle. "Hold" I said to my team by pressing the H key=hold.. Started throwing spells and the next thing I knew my other range character turned into melee class. Yes, yes... i tweaked tha tacs options, generated Guard, used preferences but I needed to change the tweaks each time my team changed.... 'cause I wanted to hear the banter.

 

You say you welcome complex tac choices? DAO and DA2 drowned you in tac choices with the AI scripting feature. DAI?... come now.. just count them and compare.

 

ME3 co-op mp, btw, the tac choices you had was the build evolution of your character. I personally loved the Adept 'cause I could pass through walls...pop into the next room take 'em out and back out through the wall...

[AWTEW]

That's why I put the segment in about sandbox - open worldedness. This is their first actual attempt beyond The Old Republic (and we know how that handled due to the sudden meh I feel from a lot people) in the recent times to do sandbox/open world. If they're following Skyrim they should just stop, Elder Scrolls and Bethesda have been doing open world games since 1994, and I specified recent times because their take on the Baldur's Gate portion of Forgotten Realms and its surrounding areas did quite well and that is quite expansive. That however was a pre-existing world that they only populated with some of their own characters where as the rest was already in play, where as SWoToR and DA:I have not done so well because there's too much ground that has nothing to do in it. How they managed to make the SW universe feel so empty was saddening when I did try it for a short time. 

 

While I am on the side of the line screaming "DA:O is number 1" I will concede that DA 2 did have several very good points. I did very much prefer the Rivalry/Friendship to just the "Love me" bar just as one example of what they did right with the second game. 

 

 Dao is god tier, this is pretty much established in the fandom. sO I'm not going to rehash how great origins is, because that horse, is well and truly dead.

 

DA2's story, protagonist, character quests, tactical system, mouse keyboard controls, and  banter system were all better than DAI. DA2's fault was its recycled maps and lack of polish. If they had two more years with DA2,  added another race for hawke..then the backlash would not have been so bad. 

 

DAI has better maps, and import system..and some okay characters. But it didn't feel like a dragon age game.

[AresKeith]

Dao is god tier, this is pretty much established in the fandom. sO I'm not going to rehash how great origins is, because that horse, is well and truly dead.

DA2's story, protagonist, character quests, tactical system, mouse keyboard controls, and banter system were all better than DAI. DA2's fault was its recycled maps and lack of polish. If they had two more years with DA2, added another race for hawke..then the backlash would not have been so bad.

DAI has better maps, and import system..and some okay characters. But it didn't feel like a dragon age game.

Please don't go down that route

It's bad enough the ME board is doing this

[Uccio]

Agree with most OP but disagree with the blood magic. Now in DAI you can only be a goody two shoe. A blood mage inquisitor could have brought the "evil" any-means-to-and-end -kind of guy in the game with storyline different from the main path. Are you a ruthless blood mage who does what he wants to achieve the end he wants, even using blood magic on people close to him, or are you a goody two shoes mr nice guy. or anything in between? Currently, unfortunately nothing of the sort is possible.

 

Edit: Also the respawning three miniature mooks plus one combat needs to return to Origin style. I thought DA2 was bad but I couldn´t have been more wrong. DAI combat is abhorrent.

[Domiel Angelus]

(to Domiel Angelus) Why do you consider the Rift Mage specialization to be "oddly out of place"?

 

It seems like it should have been exclusive to Solas, not something just anyone could pick up. Exclusive trees was one of the things DA 2 did right when each person got a tree that was solely theirs even if it was only a mash up of the good bits of other trees. 

[LoudAngryJerk]

IMO the only thing that the devs need to fix in any future installments is the choices and their repercussions. Theres a few in this game but only a few. Even looking at the keep you can tell that the choices are limited to 'did a thing'/'didnt do a thing' in most cases.

That being said you can tell that the game's original intention, to be a co-op game similar to what shadow realms was going to be, maybe happened a little later in development than they let on, given that the first DLC to the game offers a plethora of meaningful choices.

 

Things that should be added in the future:

• choices which change the tactical layout, such as the village that was originally intended to be saved at the expense of soldiers or not saved in order to be expedient in our mission and save the soldiers in the keep.
• Party dialogue discussing the last mission (after important missions) and romance arcs. Some of the best moments in both of the previous 2 games are when your party is teasing you or your mate for being with one another, it adds chemistry, and it makes that choice much more meaningful because it interacts with the rest of the game, without that it's just awkward.
• Blood Magic. seriously. The fact that you don't start out as a blood mage, that it is a learned skill, shouldve been counterbalance enough. Even if blood magic isnt a spec, (as there are similarities between the core concepts of blood magic and necromancy) its a mode; like activating it draws the power from your blood instead of your mana pool, the option should be there so that you can make that choice, so that the others can look at you different and try to dissuade you, that's interesting, removing it is just lazy. That being said, it should be noted that becoming a blood mage in previous games wasn't that much of a decision either. you just were a blood mage.

[mjb203]

Excellent points!  That is possibly the most detailed list of improvements that could be done that I've seen on these boards.  I really hope Bioware takes them into consideration. 

 

One point I really agreed with you on is the specializations.  It really did feel like another fetch quest (but it was much better done than other fetch quests in this game).  But, it could've been better if they were tied to a more in-depth, class specific quest.  Possibly instead of a 0:00 timed war table mission to summon the trainers, they could've put in 3 specialization missions that the Inquisitor and party went on.  For example, a Templar specialization quest could've been scouring a sacked Templar hq, or Mage Tower (which could also serve for a mage specialization quest maybe), and finding a wounded Templar that rewards the Inquisitor with training (or the head of a mage fraternity for a mage specialization quest).  This would also give opportunities to put in more lore about the specialization that you're doing said quest for.

 

Of course, the above is by no means a perfect example, but it would've been better than "find X amount of material" or "fight X random champions", etc., etc.  It just seems that they could've worked more story in with the above example, and possibly tied it into the main quest.

[Domiel Angelus]

 

IMO the only thing that the devs need to fix in any future installments is the choices and their repercussions. Theres a few in this game but only a few. Even looking at the keep you can tell that the choices are limited to 'did a thing'/'didnt do a thing' in most cases.

That being said you can tell that the game's original intention, to be a co-op game similar to what shadow realms was going to be, maybe happened a little later in development than they let on, given that the first DLC to the game offers a plethora of meaningful choices.

 

Things that should be added in the future:

• choices which change the tactical layout, such as the village that was originally intended to be saved at the expense of soldiers or not saved in order to be expedient in our mission and save the soldiers in the keep.
• Party dialogue discussing the last mission (after important missions) and romance arcs. Some of the best moments in both of the previous 2 games are when your party is teasing you or your mate for being with one another, it adds chemistry, and it makes that choice much more meaningful because it interacts with the rest of the game, without that it's just awkward.
• Blood Magic. seriously. The fact that you don't start out as a blood mage, that it is a learned skill, shouldve been counterbalance enough. Even if blood magic isnt a spec, (as there are similarities between the core concepts of blood magic and necromancy) its a mode; like activating it draws the power from your blood instead of your mana pool, the option should be there so that you can make that choice, so that the others can look at you different and try to dissuade you, that's interesting, removing it is just lazy. That being said, it should be noted that becoming a blood mage in previous games wasn't that much of a decision either. you just were a blood mage.

 

 

 

The big one I have to point out is: There is a point of no return for Blood Magic in DA:O, you gain the specialization from giving up Connor to the Desire Demon, so you're not really a Blood Mage until you take that turn to "I will do anything to win". There are two other ways to open it in the first game: Dropping 8g on the manual or taking it as a reward when dealing from the Baroness in DA:O Awakening. So there are two options that require you to commit what most people would consider an evil act to acquire them, based on that becoming a blood mage was a very serious decision for whatever character you made pick those options other than the cop out of buying the manual. 

In DA 2, its open and freely usable once you've gained the ability to pick specializations, as they had no additional requirements to learn them beyond having a specialization point.