19 réponses à ce sujet

[SACanuckin Oz]

The Before the Dawn side quest has all the features I would associate with a well done Dragon Age type quest:
-multiple conversations along the storyline leading to further/deeper exploration
-multiple areas involved - giving a reason to visit the Emerald Graves, Emprise de Lion, and even the special location
-impact on the main quest - Samson is weakened, etc. and you get the best rune on offer
-taking one of the advisors along - was nice to get Cullen some fieldwork.

So, you don't always have to look at the competition to see what works well, you just have to do more of what works really well, that already exists within this game (DAI).

Now, if only we can get them to write e few more like this, and less 5 of this and 7 of that rubbish.

[Domiel Angelus]

This is an extremely constructive post. I'm pleased to see someone using examples from the game itself to get a point across rather than pointing out something from another series. 

[b10d1v]

You are correct, Bioware knows how to create engaging dialog and character behaviors properly "they're a smart bunch", but didn't or had spotty performance much of the time making DAI.  

So, if it's not the knowledge base and not the creativity -the fault falls in one area program management.  EA and Bioware know this and have taken definite steps reorganizing people with management talents, that's not to say a learning curve may yet delay performance improvements.  

 

What I have not seen other than some simple testing and  angry public ranting in the press, now months old (and likely due to and over the intense IP rights and its little surprises) is some management effort to understand the boundary conditions that frostbite injects into the game environment to produce the stunning visual effects.  This technology affects every aspect of the game environment, even the parts you don't see like dialog, com, GUI and character memory and thus it needs to be at the top of the food chain along with the foundations it impacts.

 

 

Please notice tactics never entered the discussion -optional =low priority.  There are much bigger fish to catch!

[Winged Silver]

Goodness yes.

 

Even if much of it is cosmetic, I think there's a lot of value to be had in giving players an opportunity through conversation within quests to further flesh out their character's personality. It's a good opportunity to learn more about the world as well, so long as it's handled well (none of this Lavellan Inquisitor asking Morrigan to explain who the elven gods were )

 

Definitely agree on giving solid reasons for visiting multiple areas. There were a few times during Inquisition where I just couldn't remember why I was visiting an area. Was it helping the Inquisition? Probably. But in what way? I've tried to experiment by changing up the order in which I visit areas, but still, having some really solid reasons per area would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'd have liked to have had opportunities to go out with my advisors once in a while. Not necessarily always for fighting missions (though those too), but even just having Josephine tag along in my party one day when I got to a city, or a party, or something. Get a chance to hear some special banter between an advisor and a regular party member, maybe.

 

Just some food for thought

[Bacchus]

Ok, this might be a stupid question, but I don't recognize this quest and I can't find it via Google or the wiki. Can anyone point me to it, how and where to start it and what the requirements are?

Would really appreciate it

[SACanuckin Oz]

http://dragonage.wik...Before_the_Dawn

 

My error in naming it 'Dawn Rising'. It is "Before the Dawn"

[Bacchus]

http://dragonage.wik...Before_the_Dawn

 

Thank you!

[Sartoz]

The Dawn Rising side quest has all the features I would associate with a well done Dragon Age type quest:
-multiple conversations along the storyline leading to further/deeper exploration
-multiple areas involved - giving a reason to visit the Emerald Graves, Emprise de Lion, and even the special location
-impact on the main quest - Samson is weakened, etc. and you get the best rune on offer
-taking one of the advisors along - was nice to get Cullen some fieldwork.

So, you don't always have to look at the competition to see what works well, you just have to do more of what works really well, that already exists within this game (DAI).

Now, if only we can get them to write e few more like this, and less 5 of this and 7 of that rubbish.

 

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Too much effort involved.

 

Already there was too much time, money and resources spent on game content that was cut. Also, remember that the game has a limited word budget. Creating  "an engaging quest(s)" with team dialogue requires cutting conversations elsewhere. Perhaps skipping some unnecessary game romances (ie: xeno ones like Bull) might be one way to do it. Perhaps the alloted word budget is too small (but voice overs cost a lot). Who knows?

 

Good points though.

[duckley]

I think there is a difference between side quests and fetch quests. Side quests, from my perspective, tend to be fewer and farther between, in most games and fetch and collection quests more prevalent. You can skip the fetch and collection quests, but the side quests tend to add to the overall story and should be played in my humble opinion.

[NRieh]

 

The Before the Dawn side quest has all the features I would associate with a well done Dragon Age type quest...

It's a choice-specific quest.

(Just saying.)

 

 

I think there is a difference between side quests and fetch quests.

There is indeed, it's like comparing DA2 'Bait and  switch' with a random 'kill the bandits' mission.

[berelinde]

Kudos for making a constructive post that draws on examples within the game universe rather than making it all about comparing it to a different franchise.

 

And yeah, I love Before the Dawn.

[SpiritMuse]

I didn't mind some of the fetch quests. Especially when they made sense, like the guy in the crossroads who needs ram meat but he can't hunt because it's too dangerous with all the fighting mages and Templars about. Clearly this is something we need to pick up as a fledgling Inquisition trying to build goodwill among the populace.

I loved the way DA2 did side quests so much better though. They had a beginning, middle and end with full cutscenes and often different ways to resolve them and you really knew who you were doing this for and why. They were like mini stories in their own right, even when they didn't directly impact the main story. It's the only game I do side quests one by one instead of just picking them up as soon as I can and then doing them all in one go.

DAI has some of this, most notably in the companion quests. Cutscenes, resolving them in different ways resulting in different outcomes, all that good stuff. The game really needed more of those and fewer of the "find a note here" quests. It also needed some stronger area-spanning quests. The Fallow Mire one was pretty good, though basic - find missing patrol. The stuff in the Emerald Graves was also interesting - rooting out the enemy encampments one by one to liberate the area. It could have been better though, by adding cutscenes and actual encounters with the enemies instead of just finding notes all around the place. As amusing as it was to read the increasingly panicked notes as enemies begin shitting themselves on realizing that you're slowly eradicating them all, seeing the actual people would have made it feel more alive.

[Domiel Angelus]

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Too much effort involved.

 

Already there was too much time, money and resources spent on game content that was cut. Also, remember that the game has a limited word budget. Creating  "an engaging quest(s)" with team dialogue requires cutting conversations elsewhere. Perhaps skipping some unnecessary game romances (ie: xeno ones like Bull) might be one way to do it. Perhaps the alloted word budget is too small (but voice overs cost a lot). Who knows?

 

Good points though.

 

 

Krem who isn't even a playable character has as much dialogue as most of your team. That's including both ways you handle Bull's mission and 'he' has a few cut scenes where 'he' passes more words than the Inquisitor and everyone else in the room.  Then again, Krem has more depth that three of your party members so maybe we'll get to have 'him' join up for battle in a DLC. They did say no new characters, but 'he' and the rest of the chargers are already in the game.

 

I'm really wondering now why they weren't our multi-player team instead of the fugly raggamuffins that we got. They wouldn't have even needed to write extra backstory due to them having stories; and they covered all of the basic character types just about. 

[berelinde]

Domiel, your post confuses me. The quotations around the pronouns makes it sound as if you are being judgmental or even resentful, but your observations about character depth and quest worthiness suggest otherwise.

 

Seriously, though, I would absolutely love a DLC where the Inquisitor gets to adventure with the Chargers. That would be an automatic sale for me, no matter how many mods it broke. IMO, Krem is the second most engaging NPC in the game, and he deserves every word allocated to him in the word budget. 

[SACanuckin Oz]

Gotta ask berlelinde, who is the most engaging NPC in your opinion?

[berelinde]

@SACanuckin Oz: Cullen, since you ask. I must have a thing for interesting men.

 

(Interesting, attractive men, as it happens. Thus, the whistling emoticon.)

[Sartoz]

Krem who isn't even a playable character has as much dialogue as most of your team. That's including both ways you handle Bull's mission and 'he' has a few cut scenes where 'he' passes more words than the Inquisitor and everyone else in the room.  Then again, Krem has more depth that three of your party members so maybe we'll get to have 'him' join up for battle in a DLC. They did say no new characters, but 'he' and the rest of the chargers are already in the game.

 

I'm really wondering now why they weren't our multi-player team instead of the fugly raggamuffins that we got. They wouldn't have even needed to write extra backstory due to them having stories; and they covered all of the basic character types just about. 

 

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Krem has that mush dialogue? Interesting. I only saw him as an uninteresting NPC and left him/her/it after the initial contact.

 

I suspect that much content was cut and we have little clues left over to analyze.....  such as Krem's large dialogue as a hint of what was.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Talking to krem after evry main plot conclusion opens up war table operations for the Chargers.

Worthwhile chats

[Domiel Angelus]

Domiel, your post confuses me. The quotations around the pronouns makes it sound as if you are being judgmental or even resentful, but your observations about character depth and quest worthiness suggest otherwise.

 

Seriously, though, I would absolutely love a DLC where the Inquisitor gets to adventure with the Chargers. That would be an automatic sale for me, no matter how many mods it broke. IMO, Krem is the second most engaging NPC in the game, and he deserves every word allocated to him in the word budget. 

 

I use the quotations because although Krem gender identifies as male, he still has all female parts. So there is the essence of a male identified mind in a female body. The quotations aren't meant as either resentful or as judgmental, in this post I'll rescind the quotes to keep it simpler. I love the fact that we got an actual transgender of some sort because Krem actually had a personality to go along with being a trans, it wasn't just "I'm a man in a woman's body" or vice versa just shoved at you. There have been a few instances where the idea of a trans character was attempted and flopped in gaming. This wasn't one of them. Krem was well developed especially for being what's considered a tertiary character in a game, he felt like he got all the time that we should have gotten out of Varric and Vivienne combined. Varric mainly developed in DA 2 so he didn't get much in this one, and Vivienne gets the last ditch "I'm really human" when ______ occurs. She got the "I want to be a real girl" in a similar fashion of Pinocchio gaining a soul from the Blue Fairy, but replace the Blue Fairy with whatever version of the Inquisitor is assisting her at the time being.

 

Krem has a very well done story and I want to see it and the other Chargers' stories fleshed out further. They all seem to have the perfect set up for a multi-story expansion. I'm saddened that we got so much done with a team we see so little of in the actual game. They can still even stand by their 'no new characters' in expansions because they're A.) Already in the game, so they're already in the coding and B.) have already been shown to have combat actions and other things that would allow them to be in a party. 

 

I still stand by that they should have been our multi-player characters if they were going to give us pre-generated characters. We have the following in that team already: Krem (Warrior, possibly a Reaver being trained by Iron Bull), Rocky (Demolitions, would fit either the Hunter or the Alchemist), Stitches (A real friggin' healer), Dalish, yes that's what they call her (a mage), Grim (Sword and board Warrior, could be either a Champion, Templar or a Spirit Warrior) and Skinner (Could be an Assassin or Archer). He also claims that there are more Chargers but they went for stiffer drinks, so we could have fielded the entire Charger regiment as our multi-player squad. Also between The Grey Wardens, the 'Rebel' mages, the 'reformed' Templars and so many other pre-existing characters there shouldn't have been a need to make any new ones. 

 

Also if you look at it sideways, we have an all trans species in ME with the Asari. I'm certain that the one table conversation is true however and they're just an amorphous blob of some kind and using massive mind control powers to appear sexy to all species to pull a cuckoo bird on all other species in the galaxy. 

[Inex]

Definitely one of the better quests in the game. Wish more were like it. You even have the choice to not weaken samson which is a plus if you want a harder boss fight.