389 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'll be willing to admit I'm wrong if you can convince me.

 

Ok, before I type another long post, I'd like to know what your definition of geographical seperation is, if it isn't related to distance?

[ALTBOULI]

Fools! This isnt even Marksmad's final form

[NuclearTech76]

Fools! This isnt even Marksmad's final form

[Kenny Bania]

Ok, before I type another long post, I'd like to know what your definition of geographical seperation is, if it isn't related to distance?

 

Being in a separate location period. You used the example of Asian hosts for instance, and the packets needing to carry out a large number of hops. If the host wasn't in Asia, it wouldn't need the extra hops, implying that "geographic separation" is the cause (not the technical root cause, but the cause nonetheless) of lag in that specfic instance.

[Angry_Elcor]

 

If someone doesn't issue a thunderdome challenge really soon I'm going to get angry. I mean... more angry.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Well, this thread stopped being fun.

It started as being about schadenfreude, and has just kept on producing. Everybody wins!

 

Nope, only stating a fact. You know, just like you were only doing earlier.

Your insult was personally directed at me. If, as you continue to claim, my remark was insulting, please explain at whom.

 

And I'm still interested to know why the original remark stung you so.

 

Everyone I've called out deserved to be. Either for being a douchebag, or doubling down on a really ridiculous stance.

 

Or using a power you disapprove of. Or being new. Or using missiles. Or playing on a different platform. Or using a kit you don't like. Or presetting Geth. Or playing Bronze or Silver. 

 

You choose your own definitions, as is evident across the forum. Someone disagrees with you, they are suffering "butthurt". You disagree with someone else, you're "calling them on their BS". There are other forms of dialogue available, you know.

 

I'll be willing to admit I'm wrong if you can convince me.

And if you're unwilling to be wrong then you will be equally unwilling to be convinced.

[Kenny Bania]

Or using a power you disapprove of. Or being new. Or using missiles. Or playing on a different platform. Or using a kit you don't like. Or presetting Geth. Or playing Bronze or Silver. 

 

You choose your own definitions, as is evident across the forum. Someone disagrees with you, they are suffering "butthurt". You disagree with someone else, you're "calling them on their BS". There are other forms of dialogue available, you know.

 

Complete and utter bullshit. It's very obvious to everyone here (well not everyone clearly) that my over the top comments about the things I dislike are tongue in cheek, and I'd never actually stop anyone from doing what they want. Yes, I won't stay in the lobby, but I've got that right. Show me one instance, just one where I've called out someone legitimately for playing bronze or silver, or being new, or using missiles, or using a power I disapprove of, or playing on a different console.

 

There's a thing called a sense of humour. Look into it. Maybe you won't get so butthurt easily.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Being in a separate location period. You used the example of Asian hosts for instance, and the packets needing to carry out a large number of hops. If the host wasn't in Asia, it wouldn't need the extra hops, implying that "geographic separation" is the cause (not the technical root cause, but the cause nonetheless) of lag in that specfic instance.

 

Ok, I see. Ah, I see. I -did- explain that already a few pages ago. Let's go back to this then:

 

I just said it isn't. I can have an excellent connection to someone in New York, 6000 kilometers away but a crappy connection to someone who lives next door.

 

I just ran a tracer to www.nytimes.com and I got there with 8 hops. 130ms ping. If my neighbour has a different ISP than me, then I might need 10 hops to get to them. Probably still a better ping than to New York but their computer and router still play a role. How many active firewalls do they use? Do they have a program that scans every packet?

 

Distance doesn't matter, what matters is what happens to the packets.

 

The probability that a packet has to go through more hops the farther you go is high, but it doesn't correlate directly to it. For example... I do fine with both american and russian hosts but most italian ones are crap for me.

I never mentioned distance once. "Geographic separation" is the topic at hand.

 

Asian hosts being laggy for whatever reason implies "geographic separation" is a factor.

Mh, okay. I can work with that.

 

For that you'd have to seperate it further though. Individual countries, their providers and then do that for every location... not practical.

 

Anyway... I've played on some good hosts from China while others were unplayable. Same geographical location, different ping.

 

I can play with some people from HongKong (China) while someone from mainland China is unplayable. Geographical seperation is a factor, but it doesn't give you the whole picture.

 

Another factor is the technology used. The newest trend is using LTE to boost ADSL download rates, which can have significant impact on ping (upload is usually handled by the landline, but the host still has to wait on the download through LTE).

 

Yet another factor is the ISP. There's not much difference between the big companies and they usually work well together. There are lots of smaller, local providers who might do things differently.

 

There are some other factors but the point is that geographical seperation tells you nothing about the ping, except in special cases like mainland China (great firewall). I can have a lagfree game on a host in the US while one from my own city is laggy as hell. Why? Because my connection to the US uses the landline, then fibre channel to get across the ocean. While locally it goes from landline to fibre channel to radio relay (longrange wireless internet) to cable and that costs time.

 

Geographical seperation doesn't work as sole explanation because it's just one of a dozen factors.

[MaxCrushmore]

Hmm, obviously there wasn't enough coffee to go around this Monday

 

The internet is full of opinion, many others will disagree with said opinion. Many times, it is how an opinion is presented as to the reaction it receives.

 

Case in point, over the past 3 years new posters will appear on BSN. The majority of their first posts will be about asking for advice or looking for people to play with, the messages are virtually interchangeable, but some aren't as gifted at conveying their message in English, or with language in general. The reactions to these very similar messages range from open hostility to friendly, constructive advice. I personally find it amazing that the same message, presented not as eloquently, will illicit such hostility.

 

People posting serious responses like L2English, lolSilver, L2P at posters who are asking for advice, or presenting what they have found to work, annoys me. It's one thing to use these statements in jest with posters you have come to know, but to new people? This is just a case of the classic internet tough guy, it accomplishes nothing except to drive away new posters.

 

While i'm going to get assaulted for this, look at Captain Bonecold, they weren't a troll, they were someone who likes playing ME3MP but had trouble beating Bronze. Well, when I started, i had trouble beating Bronze. They also obviously did not speak English at all and used an online translator to post, so of course they were mocked for their language skills. Personally I had no trouble understanding what they were trying to say.

 

People use the label 'troll' far too frequently on this board. Off the top of my head XFG was probably the king, but there were few others.

 

Damn, I hate being bored at work.

[BurningLiquor]

 

*snip*

 

Wasn't Captain_Bonecold the guy who insisted that the vanilla human characters were all useless, even when told and shown otherwise? Or am I remembering it wrong?

[TheN7Penguin]

People can play different classes at different levels of skill. I, for example, can literally play no sentinels well, nor any Krogan, nor the Fury. What I can play, however, is the QFI despite my friends repeatedly telling me it's crap.

[cato potato]

And I'm still interested to know why the original remark stung you so.

 

Or: Y U so butthurt?

[DaemionMoadrin]

People can play different classes at different levels of skill. I, for example, can literally play no sentinels well, nor any Krogan, nor the Fury. What I can play, however, is the QFI despite my friends repeatedly telling me it's crap.

 

The QFI is one of my favourite kits and she is awesome. Especially with a Widow vs. Geth.

[TheN7Penguin]

I use her with the Mattock vs. everything. I only have the Widow I, so I may as well just use the Mantis X instead.

[MaxCrushmore]

Wasn't Captain_Bonecold the guy who insisted that the vanilla human characters were all useless, even when told and shown otherwise? Or am I remembering it wrong?

 

Yup, that was certainly their opening position. They wanted the base humans to be NPCs which couldn't be synch killed and would revive the player.

 

But that's my point, they got pilloried for that position, even though they had obviously only been playing MP for a few hours and were having difficulty advancing very far in Bronze.

[TheN7Penguin]

In all fairness, I used to think Silver was hard. And then I started playing Gold. And then when I go back on Silver or Bronze, it's just so easy.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Or: Y U so butthurt?

If you prefer me to phrase the question that way, sure. Why did it cause you such butthurt?

[Quarian Master Race]

I normally enjoy your posts, but I hope that you were sarcastically submitting this for the "dumbest thing ever written on this forum" award.  Yeah, the telegraph might have increased the speed of communications more than the internet, but that doesn't mean the internet hasn't astronomically increased the speed and efficiency of communications.

I don't think it was objectively dumb, because I don't agree with the assertion that the internet has "astronomically increased the speed and efficiency of communications" over methods that came before it, and it really hasn't had a huge societal impact even for the minority of the human race that actually has regular access to it.

To put things in perspective with an example, before the starting of trans-Atlantic wired telegraph services in the 1860s, it took around 3 weeks to send a message across the ocean. The telegraph reduced that to a few minutes. If we use an example of a telegraph message long enough that takes 10 minutes to convey and do the math, that is an increase in efficiency by an order of magnitude of over 2500x. The ability to transmit messages across entire continents in minutes rather than weeks or months forever changed how human society functioned. Entire wars used to be fought because of the inability to communicate over long distances, for example.

The internet, by contrast is only faster than the 1960s fax machine (actually, the patent for the first such device is from 1843 and used telegraph, but I'll use the more modern example that ran on telephone lines)  it replaced by the seconds or minutes it takes the fax machine to print the sent message. The internet takes 2 seconds or so to send a 500 word E-mail from New York to London, whereas a fax machine would take that time and an additional 8-10 seconds to print the message, an efficiency improvment that can be measured in single digits, around 5-7x depending on message length. A couple seconds is not enough to make much of a difference unless you are trying to avert a nuclear war via email for some reason. 

You may mention something like Skype, but it isn't any faster than the methods that proceeded it. Obama can call Putin no faster today than Kennedy could call Krushchev in 1963. The internet has also not revolutionized commerce to the extent many proponents claim. Mail order has existed for as long as the medium itself, and (to use Kennedy in the same paragraph again for convinence) that same US president was assasinated by a Mail order rifle bought from a physical magazine/ telephone combo in 1963. Even if you order something from Amazon instead, it must still be manufactured by traditional means, and physical shipping methods must be used to actually get it to you, so the reduction in time is once again perhaps a few minutes, not a significant change. Given, the internet does have the caveat of instantaneous transmission of digital media, but as of now that is mostly used for frivolous entertainment purposes such as movies, music, games etc.

The internet's actual impact on human society is mostly measured in how people in developed countries now spend their out of work hours and access entertainment. Facebook/ Skyping, playing online games, watching streamed TV shows or engaging in frivolous discussion on video game forums. It has also improved the efficiency and ease at which we can find information, though not to the point that has drastically altered the way society functions, because libraries and TV news networks still exist. The "digital age" has not changed the way we live the way the agricultural or industrial revolutions did, not even close. It hasn't even changed our lives or society in a fundamental manner as much as a seemingly mundane invention like the washing machine did, as I mentioned previously by pointing to its role in changes to the role of women in society and thus economic, cultural and social family dynamics.

Political, economic and social norms and paradigms are pretty much the same as they were in the 1980s or earlier before it, and the changes that have taken place have not been a result of the internet. We vastly overestimate the impact of the internet only because of its relative novelty and how it affects us now. It's neat, but ultimately trivial at this point, as evidenced by the fact that most of the world's population does without it with little adverse effect.

[DaemionMoadrin]

QMR, you're missing one important point: the actual content of our messages. We can transfer gigantic amounts of data near instantly now, something the older technologies couldn't do. I can send you 5000 novels in 2 minutes, want to do the math for the fax machine?

 

You're also downplaying the impact of the digital age on society, not every change has been minor.

[prinsesbubblegum]

Complete and utter bullshit. It's very obvious to everyone here (well not everyone clearly) that my over the top comments about the things I dislike are tongue in cheek, and I'd never actually stop anyone from doing what they want. Yes, I won't stay in the lobby, but I've got that right. Show me one instance, just one where I've called out someone legitimately for playing bronze or silver, or being new, or using missiles, or using a power I disapprove of, or playing on a different console.

 

There's a thing called a sense of humour. Look into it. Maybe you won't get so butthurt easily.

 

Obvious that. They I'd so one right show; Out won't using everyone. My it's from bronze; You called; Complete it want for a or new; Power maybe what and get over things different someone got or anyone thing are using. In playing on or tongue doing look; Very one there's called. (well disapprove stay or sense stop clearly);

 

I've the of easily a silver in I bullshit butthurt dislike everyone I've a never I playing a me legitimately into top lobby where here won't. I yes and just console or comments.

 

That of to not humour being actually. 

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Complete and utter bullshit. (QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ ... QQ)

 

There's a thing called a sense of humour. Look into it. Maybe you won't get so butthurt easily.

So you're saying if I'd just originally posted

 

"LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!! L2Internet, D00DZ."

 

then that wouldn't have caused you all this butthurt?

 

I'll remember for next time.

[BurningLiquor]

 

Obvious that. They I'd so one right show; Out won't using everyone. My it's from bronze; You called; Complete it want for a or new; Power maybe what and get over things different someone got or anyone thing are using. In playing on or tongue doing look; Very one there's called. (well disapprove stay or sense stop clearly);

 

I've the of easily a silver in I bullshit butthurt dislike everyone I've a never I playing a me legitimately into top lobby where here won't. I yes and just console or comments.

 

That of to not humour being actually. 

 

 

What the flying **** did I just attempt to read?

[Quarian Master Race]

QMR, you're missing one important point: the actual content of our messages. We can transfer gigantic amounts of data near instantly now, something the older technologies couldn't do. I can send you 5000 novels in 2 minutes, want to do the math for the fax machine?

You're also downplaying the impact of the digital age on society, not every change has been minor.

And how does that ability change anything if the time it takes an author/creator to construct and me to read/process said 5000 novels or any other type of data is many orders of magnitude larger than the time it takes for either system to send them, and thus the limiting factor in terms of efficiency?

Examples for your last statement?

[DaemionMoadrin]

What the flying **** did I just attempt to read?

 

That's an original BSN quote, it has historic value. ^^

 

Edit: Damn, I posted too fast. This read exactly like a few guys from 2012.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

 

My it's from bronze; 

Dammit. The translator so nearly generated "My ****** are bronzed", which would have led someone to post a related GIF, and this thread would have been right back on topic for Combat Strategy