80 réponses à ce sujet

[Walfan]

My hope was that the lack of cutscenes allowing us to fully view the NPCs we spoke with was due to a limit on resources, rather than some form of artistic direction.

 

I certainly agree that many quests became easily forgettable because we didn't have the opportunity to see with whom we were speaking with. Additionally, even speaking to familiar characters was less fulfilling than it could have been. I often found myself swinging the camera around in boredom while companions spoke to me outside of cutscenes.

Or, you know, they could cut down on the metric ton of skyrim quests and actually make fewer but actually worth playing ones.

[Winged Silver]

Or, you know, they could cut down on the metric ton of skyrim quests and actually make fewer but actually worth playing ones.

 

Well sure, but I'm going to assume they've heard that loud and clear, given how much noise we've been making about it

 

Some of the quests they had had a decent focus. I think there were plenty that really could've felt like a fully fleshed mission, had we had a few cutscenes to get to the know the quest giver, and maybe had opportunities to react to what we were doing (I liked how I had the opportunity to judge the Mayor of Crestwood for what he did. More of that, in the field, would have been a nice touch). And some absolutely weren't necessary, but I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that they find a better balance next game, now that they've had a chance to stretch their legs with the FB engine, so to speak.

[Enigmatick]

Or, you know, they could cut down on the metric ton of skyrim quests and actually make fewer but actually worth playing ones.

It's not even so much the quests that are my problem. It's the "open world activities", no one ever wanted collectables and wave fight generators in Dragon Age. It's painfully clear that this team doesn't know how to make an open world dragon age game.

[Elleria]

It's not even so much the quests that are my problem. It's the "open world activities", no one ever wanted collectables and wave fight generators in Dragon Age. It's painfully clear that this team doesn't know how to make an open world dragon age game.

Oh I do love collectibles and would love them to be made available as trophies that I can collect and display in Skyhold. I would love Bioware implement armory room or museum within Skyhold that houses collectibles and trophies(having collection of dragon heads will be a good start)

[Nefla]

I feel like BioWare didn't care about the NPCs outside the inquisition itself (and a few involved with the main quest) and didn't feel they were worth putting much time or effort into. Most of the NPCs don't even have names let alone closeups or cutscenes or long conversations or any kind of character development.

[bEVEsthda]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really and strongly preferred the lack of cinematics. It made the scene flow better. The solution isn't to have further cinematics to get back to that level of connection, but rather to allow us more control over the camera so we can zoom in on those features if we want.

 

This sounds like what I refer to as telling the story in ambient gameplay. Works great in first person games. First seen in Half Life. Then seemingly forgotten by all developers.

Though I have to say that this does not seem to be the direction or technology that Bioware is moving towards, at all.

 

I'm thinking something different: It would have been cool to have seen what game DA:I would have become, if it wasn't to be released on the old consoles, or if it didn't have to be the same game across the platforms (Skyrim isn't, btw).

[Aravasia]

I 100% agree with the OP, body language and facial expression are so important when communicating, and I really lost the connection to the characters without this. I use a mod that zooms in on the characters faces during those conversations, and I can tell you that it makes all the difference in the world. (Here is a link, in case anyone else is interested.) Of course, the only problem with this is that those conversations aren't given unique facial expressions, apart from lip syncing animations. Cinematic conversations are always preferred for me, and I believe that they should have been used in the more important side quests. But, if this change was made for budget reasons, or to allow us more conversations, then I think that just zooming up on the characters faces, and giving them unique facial animations that correspond with what they are saying, could make a huge difference. 

[Saphiron123]

 

 

In theory, DAI's approach to most dialogue should be insdistinguishable from cinematic dialogue, correct? The words and options are the same.

 

However, that is simply not true, in my opinion, for two main reasons.

 

1-There is a reason movies and tv series and games tend to have only the character who speaking on screen when he or she is speaking. Because humans communicates as much by their facial expressions and body movements as they do by their words.

Now, imagine watching this scene from a position where you can't see Peter Dinklage's facial expressions.

 

 

 

Same wrods, same acting, but it wouldn't be as powerful, would it?

 

2-If the character we are speaking to isn't even worth cinematic dialogue, we can already tell he or she isn't important. Thus, why should we care about them?

 

Both of these contribute to forgettable NPCs and when a great number of your side quests are already forgettable (clear this pit of corpses so soldiers you can't speak to will teleport here, find this letter which will take you to another letter, which will take you to another letter, quest completed) that makes thwe vast maps you have created a chore to get through on the way to Adamant or Halamshiral.

 

 

You're wise, OP.

In DAo and DA2 I felt like I was talking to my companions, in DAI it was like talking to an NPC in final fantasy 1 on the NES. Sure they had actual arms and legs, but the expressiveness was about the same...

[b10d1v]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Ah.. but the Dragone Age series have devolved to become an action shooter via 8 button smashing console controllers. What you are asking, I believe (and I support), is more RPGeesh.

That is anti console thinking (from EA's PoV). Besides, the cost of such a game would skyrocket.

 

Game cost break down to ( from google searches):

 

1. 15-18% programming

2. 30-40% art

3. 30-40% marketing

4. remaining = license fees, hard media (dvds), etc

 

However, a good game would become epic!

 

 

Correcting a spelling error

No doubt I agree with your premise, but those statistics are more typical for developed games on schedules.  DAI added computational surface effects (Frostbite) and tried to add a sophisticated character behavior controller as new technology.  The first came with little surprises and the second seriously behind schedule -and essentially dropped.  Together these two could produce impressive dialogue with facial expression special effects and body language that the OP desires, that is when they are completed.

[9TailsFox]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Ah.. but the Dragone Age series have devolved to become an action shooter via 8 button smashing console controllers. What you are asking, I believe (and I support), is more RPGeesh.

That is anti console thinking (from EA's PoV). Besides, the cost of such a game would skyrocket.

 

Game cost break down to ( from google searches):

 

1. 15-18% programming

2. 30-40% art

3. 30-40% marketing

4. remaining = license fees, hard media (dvds), etc

 

However, a good game would become epic!

 

 

Correcting a spelling error

This biggest problem with game making. It's not my problem EA is idiots. If you spend half of money to make game not on game making, you are stupid no other they to describe it. Stop trying to sell games, and start making them.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

i don't like cutscenes (or DA2/DAO cinematic dialogues), they remind me of movies - noninteractive, constrained and linear. facial expression, posture and dialogue-related behaviour - sure, why not - those things define chars (PC's action should be chosen by gamer, not by a designer)

simply allow me to control the camera, zoom in or out, even change to FPP if i want immersion

[JeffZero]

I often found myself swinging the camera around in boredom while companions spoke to me outside of cutscenes.

 

I spent 120 hours (well not really, but a fair bit of it) resisting the camera's pull-away and forcefully zooming the bastard as close to the characters' faces as possible. I detested the non-cinematic stuff. A third as much wouldn't have irked me, but as it stands, boy did it make my already-lukewarm reception to the content of the side missions all the more tepid.

 

I live in fear that ME4 is going to employ this.

[JeffZero]

i don't like cutscenes (or DA2/DAO cinematic dialogues), they remind me of movies - noninteractive, constrained and linear. facial expression, posture and dialogue-related behaviour - sure, why not - those things define chars.

 

Personally, I love my in-game movies. Always have, always will. I can replay games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Xenosaga: Episode I, where at times there are over 45 minutes of non-interactive, fully-scripted cutscenes at a time.

 

I certainly don't expect the vast majority of this forum to agree with me to such an extreme! But that's how I roll. So when BioWare's trademark cinematic (yet far less so, and also, not nearly as lengthy) conversational approach is frequently discarded in favor of something that totally fails to immerse me, I kinda tear up a little bit.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that we're on totally opposite sides of the coin but it's interesting to see the other side.

[Winged Silver]

I spent 120 hours (well not really, but a fair bit of it) resisting the camera's pull-away and forcefully zooming the bastard as close to the characters' faces as possible. I detested the non-cinematic stuff. A third as much wouldn't have irked me, but as it stands, boy did it make my already-lukewarm reception to the content of the side missions all the more tepid.

 

I live in fear that ME4 is going to employ this.

 

Kudos for that self control! My camera-swinging was reaching nauseating levels by the end of the game  

 

Considering how many of us have shared our distaste for the system, I would be extremely surprised if the feature stayed. I could see it returning to a shorter amount, similar to ME3, but I would really be quite surprised if we saw this feature implemented in the exact same way for ME4. 

 

There's plenty out there to be nervous about, but I think we might be safe on this one

[AWTEW]

Too costly with with multiple races.

[9TailsFox]

Too costly with with multiple races.

DA:O have multiple races and cinematic camera every time you talk with someone.

[daveliam]

Count me in as a supporter of this request.  I feel that DA: I was really missing something for me when it came to NPCs.  Few seemed as memorable and I genuinely think that the lack of cinematics in dialogue was a huge part of that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

On why cinematic dialogue is needed.

It isn't.

I hope the move away from cinematic dialogue was an artistic decision, because it was an excellent choice.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

It isn't.

I hope the move away from cinematic dialogue was an artistic decision, because it was an excellent choice.

 

People staring blankly at you from several feet away while the camera is even farther away seems artistic to you? Having nothing to keep us focused while even important people drone at us seems artistic to you? Are you a tranquil or something?

 

That's just your opinion. A lot of people, myself included, have expressed that this "artistic decision" is one of the reasons why the game has such poor presentation and why it's so boring.

 

Or are you just being facetious?

[Shechinah]

(to CDR Aedan Cousland) There's no need to insult Sylvius because they prefer something else than you do and so has a different opinion of it.  

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

(to CDR Aedan Cousland) There's no need to insult Sylvius because they prefer something else than you do and so has a different opinion of it.  

 

At what point did I insult him?

 

Edit: The tranquil comment? LOL.

[KaiserShep]

I strongly believe that what really makes dialogue look better is the animation itself. If characters had more unique gestures and moved around the interaction would be more lively.

[Winged Silver]

DA:O have multiple races and cinematic camera every time you talk with someone.

 

Though in DAO most of the conversations were very static, with the exception of facial features (some were fairly lively). A fair number of the conversations in DAI involved our characters moving about in varying degrees. Additionally, while they didn't always succeed, I think they at least tried to account for height differences, which would have added work (in DAO, my male elf managed to grow a couple of inches whenever he and Morrigan shared a moment. I would assume something similar happened with male dwarves? )

[Winged Silver]

It isn't.

I hope the move away from cinematic dialogue was an artistic decision, because it was an excellent choice.

 

I'm not certain I agree, but I'm curious: what did you like about moving away from the cinematic dialogue? 

[sandalisthemaker]

I mentioned Feyriel's quest earlier, and it really shows how the cinematic cutscenes and dialogue help make quests memorable.

 

There were so many parts and scenes to that quest line.

 

Hawke walks up to Thrask speaking with Arianni and then engages Arianni in cinematic dialogue with closeups. 

 

Hawke goes searching for Feynriel by asking his father, Vincento for clues to his whereabouts. Even the minor character Vincento gets face time with a closeup, and because of that I still remember him. I remember his voice, and the way he lies to Hawke. Mage Hawke gets special dialogue and even displays some of his/her power in this scene.

 

Hawke is directed to Samson, who gets face time. We see his lyrium-addled self up close. Bags under his eyes and all. Maybe he's a friend, maybe he's a sleazy good-for-nothing. Again, he is memorable even without his involvement in DA:I.  IMO Samson was better in DA2 but that is neither here nor there.

 

Next we go to the warehouse where we are treated to the scene with the mage girl who turns abomination. Yeah, her voice acting wasn't great, but the scene was memorable as she burst into a flaming abomination.

 

Then we head to Darktown and face the slaver.  Bring Fenris along for some added fun as he walks up to the slaver and thrusts his fist into said slaver's chest.

 

Then we head off to the wounded coast and free Feynriel.  Rogue Hawk gets a badass knife toss option via another memorable cutscene.

 

All this is just part one of Feynriel's long cutscene-rich questline.   *A SIDE QUEST too. Not even part of the main story.* It was awesome and memorable.   

 

I really, really hope we can get content like this again in DA4.