240 réponses à ce sujet

[Drasca]

This is pretty much my thoughts. I know the Templar receives a lot of love in these forums, but I just don't get it. I've tried a few different builds, and sure she has a couple of nice combo's,... but she just does not shine at all to me. Sure they have "decent" survivability, but outside of demons/spell purge combo's, ... yeah, just not a fan. Templar has to be the class I like the least, and that says a lot, because, I can still be last man standing on the Templar, and feel like dead weight in the party.

 

Most Templars I see, spend the majority of the match, running around trying to be a makeshift tank, and stabby, stabbying whatever they are lucky enough to still poke at that hasn't died yet.

 

Templar - medium survival, high combo damage, buff support - needs an assist with guard generation. Needs a viable non combo based build. Hard to justify in Perilous.

 

Templars need some training to shine. They absolutely need heal on kill and a high damage weapon. Most players suck, period, but it is easier to do well while being a terrible player on some classes than others. Templar isn't one of them. It isn't the best at tanking, and is an off-tank at best. That's fine. It isn't meant to be.

 

You need to learn to weapon animation cancel using shield wall. Hold down the attack button and then tap your shield wall at the end of your first attack.

 

Secondly, you've got the Wrath Purge combo that can potentially kill entire swaths of enemies. You need to run past your fellow players (and single mobs) if they aren't willing to ambush, and you need to learn alpha-strike ambush large groups yourself with good positioning and timing. In this manner, combined with heal on kill, you can empty entire rooms of enemies.

 

Between Shield Wall attack-cancels (SWAC) and wrath purge (WP), you should be outputting high amounts of both single target and multi target aoe damage. With a upgraded blessed blades / flow of battle build, you can perform WP every 10-20 seconds, nuking a lot of enemies in between fast sword jabs.

 

Positioning & timing matters a lot here in order to avoid getting yourself killed, while annihilating the enemy.

 

Templar is sensitive to how well the team coordinates, as it is a 'team' orientated class rather than solo orientated like assassin or cookie cutter AW's (My combo king build is team orientated). Pugs are terrible in general, so yes Templar tends to suffer in efficiency in Pugs until the bad ones die and you can solo (or team with the better ones) with it.

[Luke Barrett]

Lots of great feedback so far! Most of it is in line with my initial assessment of where they're at so that's a good thing. A couple interesting ability specific items popped up that will now be on my radar now as well.

[ellpadre]

I like the Hunter, and don't personally find him that weak. The use of passives, plus stealth, plus upgraded leap shot, plus a good bow can wipe a high priority target easily. I'll list out the characters that I see often taking a nap in the fade.

 

Alchemist, as stated earlier, a weak class. I played as her, and couldn't get any love. Seem to be always falling down.

 

Reaver, I know this is the high risk, high reward character, and a good player maybe never dies, but I see these guys down a lot. Its a character, that when I think I'll play, I just go, "Sure if I want to rambo and get the kills, i'll just be AW".

 

I see a lot more Katari's, they seem to have gotten better. 

 

I know it is hard to do, but the overlap between the characters skill trees kind of takes the unique factor away from them, and is maybe a reason many don't use that character. For instance, people will go, why be alchemist, when I can just be assassin, or why be hunter when I can just be an archer. Same with Elementalist to an extent, with the use of Barrier. (But don't take barrier away from my Ele, I love it )

 

Maybe try to emphasise the characters unique qualities better, with more unique skill trees if at all possible, then people may be more inclined to use them

[veramis]

Worked together with nranola on this list of balance recommendations.

 

Before we start, want to say that I believe in INCREMENTAL balance changes. We suggest some big changes below, but IMO it is best to just buff and nerf things by 5-10% at a time, and wait for player feedback for deciding on further balance changes if any.

 

Need general buffs for the following classes:

 

Alchemist by ~20%. Elemental mines needs some buff to make it useful in teams that kill fast, i.e. the ability to hit enemies while still in the air, with a percentage of them unable to in order to prevent it being too powerful. Toxic Cloud, Poisoned Weapons, and Parry need 10-30% buffs. She is by far the weakest non-DLC class at the moment.

 

Hunter by ~10-15%: Needs something to make him unique. On The Razor's Edge's 15% damage increase could be increased to 30%. Toxic Cloud, Evade, and Hook and Tackle need buffs. Full Draw needs faster animation.

 

Templar by ~10%: She needs something to do after Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge combo. She is a very boring class. Her Horn of Valor's upgrade was ninja-nerfed by 20% damage, and IMO the nerf should be reduced to 10%. Challenge needs to be buffed, whether by reduced cooldown/stamina cost or better guard generation. Combat Roll can  be strongly reduced in effectiveness due to lag, and should be buffed either by reduced stamina cost, momentary invulnerability, removal of DoT's, or eliminate the lag-induced rubberbanding (rubberbanding affects Fade Step too). Line In the Sand needs to be fixed, enemies just walk past often. Bodyguard is very risky, there should be a cap so that you can only take so much damage over a certain period of time from it, or that it cancels before your hp drops below a certain amount. Shield Wall ought to be made activated on HOLD, and made deactivated on RELEASE, as toggling by clicking can result in the ability failing to work when you need it to because of clicks not registering during animation locks (i.e. when staggered or landing from a jump).

 

Reaver by ~10%: She needs ~10-20% more survivability, even at the expense of reduced DPS. No one gets challenge and biggest threat on her. Block & Slash, Combat Roll, and Earthshaking Strike need to be buffed.

 

Need buffs for the following abilities:

 

CALTROPS (100%+ buff, must be able to kill enemies with Caltrops lolol), Block & Slash, Combat Roll, Earthshaking Strike, Evade, Hook & Tackle, Poisoned Weapons, Toxic Cloud, Challenge, Grappling Chain, Shield Wall (buff by making activated on hold, deactivated on release, as opposed to click toggle which can be interrupted by a million animations), Spike Trap, Flashfire, Lightning Bolt, Energy Barrage, Fortifying Blast (Mind Blast upgrade. It no longer builds barrier if you die and don’t revive fast enough)

 

Need nerfs for the following abilities:

 

Opportunity Knocks: When people have enough critical chance, this ability becomes insanely powerful. It needs an internal cap, such as only proccing 2-4 times in any 5 second interval.

 

Flower of Battle: Same as above to a lesser extent.

 

Mark of Death: Can increase damage taken by an enemy a lot. It shouldn’t be affected if reasonable amount of damage increase is done, but there should be a cap so it can’t get ridiculous. I am not sure, but I think there is a bug where if your opportunity knocks cools down Mark of Death during its normal duration, it ends early, and this should be fixed before any nerf.

 

Static Cage: Bugged ring increases duration by 70%. Does double the Static Cage damage bonus for basic attacks due to counting runes as separate damage sources. Bug made it able to trap demon commander after a recent patch.

 

Melees in general need help. As it is now, melees take much more risk than ranged, because they have to get close to enemy ranged before fighting, and they have to be within striking distance of melee enemies. Additionally, the new changes to enemy spawning has caused melee characters to be made further undesirable, because where additional enemies spawn depends upon where the team is, and by having melees in the team, the game becomes like WHACK-A-MOLE.

 

Attributes from promotions needs to be looked at again.  As it is now, each successive point becomes increasingly more powerful than prior points for damage reduction, and is a linear increase for critical chance. People can reach the 80% damage reduction cap, have very high HP, and quite literally take 5-10x more damage than fresh accounts. It might be worth considering adding some diminishing return or lower damage reduction cap, but keep in mind not to do it too much because many players just play this game in order to keep on farming promotions and they won't be happy with a drastic nerf to the effects of promotions.

 

Many rings are bugged, either being above or below the stated effectiveness, or having no or wrong effects. In example, the new Barrier strength 30%+ ring actually decreases Barrier duration by ~2 seconds.

[TormDK]

I think largely, the Templars WoH/Purge combo needs to be toned down so that there is room to look at the Sentinel tree, as it is in sore need. This holds especially true for players with a huge amount of will power promotions.

 

I'll pose some questions that you can look to answer Luke (Doesn't have to be in public, but I think it's a good practice to have the answers for them to help balance across the board)

 

On Hitpoints per class.

 

Why isn't constitution differentiated between the classes? You buffed the Katari with both more hit points AND more hp per con, a move that made total sense. Now you just need to walk further down the road and apply it across the board. Keep mages at 5hp/con, put Rogues at 5.5 and all Warriors at 6. I would also ask for a more differentiated approach to hp gained per level. 

 

Since Heal on Kill is a procentage, as hp pools increase as a result, HoK should be toned down as otherwise it's value would be even greater than it is now.

 

On Armour class, and Guard;

 

I think the scaling of damage between the difficulty levels is the real problem here (especially if making a "Nightmare/Platinum difficulty setting is being considered), however why are classes so near each other armour rating wise?

 

When you add Tier 4 and Tier 5 armour, don't be afraid to take a differentiated approach. Let armour rating mean something.

 

Also, why do the Legionaire recieve so many abilities that effect their armour rating (Either permanent or temporarily) while the Templar gets exactly one?

 

Why is max guard only influenced by two talents? Why not go further and either add more talents, or increase the max guard bonus they provide? This is likely needed in conjuration with a higher armour rating pool if we get a "Nightmare" difficulty.

 

Why are there no talents that improve max stamina, yet an item (necklace) that adds up to 50%? 50% more base resource is a huuuuuuge thing, and we really shouldn't be reliant on RNGsus blessing us for something like that.

 

On the Templar;

 

Two classes currently can cast Barrier to help support the party, yet only one can build AoE threat. Why is that? An easy suggestion would be to replaced Unbowed and upgrade, with Warcry and Upgrade. It would also mean getting Cutting Words would be a worthwhile investment.

 

Bodyguard as a support ability is a nice idea, however why are Sentinel Templars not given any tools to bounce back from absorbing damage that would otherwise have killed her?

 

Consider adding a talent needs to be added below Unyielding that works similar to Death Siphon (HoK on enemies dead near player) so that the Templar can bounce back more easily after absorbing enough damage that it would have otherwise killed her. Otherwise Bodyguard needs a Heal on Kill item to function, or it's a once-per-minute one trick pony (due to needing Unyielding to be ready for use)

 

Line in the Sand needs to be fixed so that mobs cannot simply walk through it.

 

Why did you give "Balanced Combat" talent to the Legionaire, when their talent design means that they don't care about shield blocking?

Modifié par TormDK, 26 avril 2015 - 10:04 .

[ellpadre]

 

 

 

Many rings are bugged, either being above or below the stated effectiveness, or having no or wrong effects. In example, the new Barrier strength 30%+ ring actually decreases Barrier duration by ~2 seconds.

 

Is that true? I have been using this for the last few days!

[veramis]

Is that true? I have been using this for the last few days!

 

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18747313

[Zehealingman]

Firstly, it's good that you made that topic. Alot of prople would like to talk about class balance, but didn't know where. Not only do they have a place now, it's also a topic made by someone working at BW. Maybe we could have a perm. sticky balance thread?

As I mentioned above, guard needs a buff and/or a redesign. Right now, it's "only" an extra healthbar just like barrier. But barrier is way stronger guard. (Ev. buffs/nerfs for barriers are another discussion)


Maybe guard could give the warrior extra armor or reduce damage taken by XY %.

Now, let's take a look at some of the spells/abilities.


Caltrops: I don't know if it is bugged or just very UP.
To my understanding, it is an AoE damage and slow skill. But maybe it's just me, but I can neither see any damage or slow effect. After all, the effected area isn't that big. But why not add a 3-4 second stun to it?

If ab enemy enters an effected area, they get "stunnend".


Ice Rune: Although it isn't bugged (nor UP, really), some changes to it would make folks use it more often.

You could either simply remove the rune stage and turn it into a AoE CC/low damage spell. It freezes X enemies for Y seconds.

Now, I know the spell alread does it. But most of the time the rest your group meets the enemy head on, while you tacticly place your rune => 1 or 2 enemies try to get to you, but then they may not trigger the rune, etc.

[Dieb]

Not gonna go on another Hunter defense ralley (so let me anyways as usual), but I do find it peculiar that the most popular classes on "weakest" lists are the hybrids. Basically most complains boil down to "does less damage then", which I REALLY hope does not become the standard by which balancing is measured by.

 

The Archer has zero crowd control skills and not as many defensive maneuvers, and he makes up for it by high damage output and DPS - same goes for the Alchemist compared to the Assassin. It's streamlined gameplay versus indirect gameplay.

 

The reason I am complaining is merely that if you were to raise the sheer damage these two make, you'd have to fairly cut some of their survivability measures, which is something would kill the classes for me. I'm not saying my opinion is more valuable than those of others, I'm merely asking to consider this, too.

 

 

edit: Removed the example cause I made my point one way or the other, and it seemed braggy.

[Kenny Bania]

Glad to see that balance is finally being addressed.

[BountyhunterGER]

The dual dagger rogues seem a bit weak to me..

but then again I think I just suck playing them properly.

[junker1990]

It's not class related, but can we have any visual sign of low barrier/guard/health? I mean, like screen fading/goring? Bottom gauge is hard to track through intensive battle.

[ChinookLoki]

Templars need some training to shine. They absolutely need heal on kill and a high damage weapon.

...

You need to learn to weapon animation cancel using shield wall.

...

you need to learn alpha-strike ambush large groups yourself with good positioning and timing.

...

Positioning & timing matters a lot here in order to avoid getting yourself killed, while annihilating the enemy.

...

Templar is sensitive to how well the team coordinates,

 

Drasca, for all of these reasons, Templar needs help.

The fact that you need to be both well geared and learn precise timing as well as understand animation and cancelling is a problem.

That's the kind of attention to game play that should take a good class to a great class, but here it takes a frustrating and weak class to a good class.

 

Also, I didn't mention it because it's a personal opinion but I despise Shield Wall and drop it off my skills as a Lego as soon as possible and truly hate that it is required by the Templar to build the Guard that as has been otherwise brought up is significantly under performing in comparison to Barrier.  

Stop attacking, Stop pulling Aggro, Drain Stamina, all to build a bit of guard that is barely useable in Perilous? No thanks.

[Texasmotiv]

I will also add that there are some survivability scaling issues. I feel that the Reaver, Templar, Necromancer, and to a lesser extent have trouble keeping off the floor in perilous as opposed to other classes. This cones from someone who pugs all my matches so i have to get really lucky to have a balanced team.

I usually feel invincible with my Templar on threatening but almost like a burden on perilous.

Also, i think that some classes have a sweet spot. The assassin for example i dont feel complete until around 16 when i have upgraded deathblow, IWNT, dance of death and hidden blades. Until then, it is the most frustrating class in the game for me. The constant misses from twin fangs leaving me out of stealth, the occasions where something has just a sliver of life and kills me anyway, the fact that i can't one shot a shadow but they can one shot me.

Alternatively, an Archer is complete once getting archers lance and opportunity knock. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

[dasfranken]

AW- Needs a nerf regarding fade shield, but I'm torn on how. I like the idea stated earlier in the thread about lowering his max barrier cap instead of % barrier returned on hit, but that would make for some poor counter-play for keepers and elementalists on the team. Perhaps keep his barrier cap and % restored the same, but make it to where fade shield can only restore up to a certain % of your maximum barrier (like 40%)? This allows for barrier classes to still cast a useful barrier on him when a tank is needed, but nerfs what he can do unsupported. The lowered effective barrier pool will make gathering storm + chain lightning/stonefist spam a lot less ridiculous survivability wise, and make the upgraded spirit blade projectile reflection more useful for tanking.  

 

Alchemist- I think cooldowns are a huge issue for her. Would it be possible to add some sort of cooldown reduction on hit passive like guard on hit for the katari? It would probably need to be fairly minor, like 0.25 seconds at most, not 0.50 seconds like opportunity knocks since elemental mines will get in a lot of hits (especially with fire flask). This would allow builds centered around flask of fire, poison cloud, or ice flask to have a lot less down time on powers and make her unique powers more appealing.  

 

Hunter- Lacks a detonator and some important passives like I was never here and cull the herd. I doubt adding in skills is something you all can easily do, but those two passives would help him a lot. A heal on hit passive bonus could help if adding skills is impossible. A little bit of extra survivability when stealth and /or fall back plan is on cooldown could be a decent substitute to just cloaking more often. 

 

Reaver- Powerful with great gear/crit chance, but I still think she could use a minor buff to help the lesser geared. A buff to the HP pool or 1% guard generation on hit might help (I think the katari is 5% guard on hit right?). I'm partial to the guard generation just to give her a bit better stagger resistance when closing in. She doesn't need much, just a nudge.

 

Templar- I think she needs some form of innate health regen to off-set body guard and her lack of war cry/walking fortress/counterstrike/to the death. Preferably one that isn't heal on kill so support/tank oriented templars aren't left behind as much as the offensive builds. Could she be given something passive similar the "heal 15% of damage taken over 10 seconds" perk some shield have? So long as losing guard triggers health regen it would help. Bumping the percentage up to 25-35% might be better, but anything would be appreciated. A significantly lowered cooldown on blessed blades would also make it much more practical to use both for buffing your team and using WoH/SP more often. Challenge needs a longer taunt for buff templars to make better use of cutting words.

[yarpenthemad21]

What do you think about promotions change in which instead of "primary/better" stats we get other ones.

instead of con->strength, cunning->dex, willpower->magic.

[Jackyl]

Am I the only one who likes the classes where they are at(even AW) balance wise? I'd much prefer skills/passive to work as intended rather than see more global nerfs/buffs. Mind blasts upgrade not working after goin down and especially dance of death not restoring stamina are the two more aggravating to me .

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a few tweaks.

Warriors - introduce armor with a much higher armor value (200+) to make armor passive worthwhile. Increase default guard worth from 25% max life to 50% and increase guard gen on shieldwall, challenge, unbowed, and war cry by 10-25%

Would like to see cooldown on veilstrike lowered considerably. The keeper has amazing passive that affect weakened enemies that benefit everyone, but no way of reliability applying them. Could also buff her % to weaken on attack passive . Would like to see dispels upgrade give barrier for dispelling any enemy buff or friendly debut rather than just barrier.

[SofaJockey]

Hey, everyone!

 

Just wanted to gauge the community real quick to see which of the current 12 characters feel either too weak or too strong. It seemed like the response to the Katari changes we put in was very positive so we'll be looking to help out those characters that may also be in need (and maybe down tune a few others... I'm looking at you, Cillian). So if you could reply with whichever class you feel isn't up to par and maybe a very brief explanation as to why (in your opinion) that would be fantastic.

 

As a side note, I would like to increase the amount of developer interaction with the community here so please attempt to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If this goes well it will certainly increase the odds of it happening with more frequency

 

Really good thread thanks. I don't have the in-depth skill knowledge, so this is very much quick reaction feedback:

I'd also echo the suggestions to not make changes too drastic.

 

Strongest

• Arcane Warrior - If there's a nerf I think it needs gentle iteration to get it just right. AW often used by weaker players on higher difficulty.
• Elementalist - Strong, but good. A great all rounder.
• Keeper - Great defensive class.

Fair (solid)

• Archer - great at range, non controversial class.
• Katari - the improvements have been successful and the Katari spends much less time on the floor.
• Legionnaire - Solid reliable Lego.

Fair (with issues)

• Assassin - It's mid range, but most emphasis is on the Stalker tree rather than the largely ignored Assassination tree.
• Necromancer - Simulacrum synergises poorly with heal-on-kill.
• Templar - Great in many circumstances, particularly with the 'demon nuke', but a somewhat exposed class
• Reaver - Largely fine, but I find Devour and Ring of Pain oddly constructed

Weakest (for me)

• Hunter - The trees are a little confused, it's sometimes hard to know quite what to do with it.
• Alchemist - Character and play is very enjoyable, but Flasks and Toxic Cloud could do with more 'oomph'...

[Samahl na Revas]

Strongest Classes: Archer, Reaver, Katari Elementalist.

 

Most survivable: Arcane warrior, Legionnaire, Katari

 

Least survivable: Necromancer(without exploit), Archer, Hunter (despite the skill tree), Alchemist (needs help), maybe Assassin (early on)

 

Weakest: Legionnaire

 

I'm pass 110+ cunning. Archer is a beast once I add Opportunity knocks as one of my passives which why I think archer is the strongest and feel that Alchemist needs help. Throwing mines on the floor was something we did during the early days of DAIMP. Now with a lot of people being strong those builds are gone.

 

 Necromacer is another that is close to needing help, some people might disagree but if the reviving exploit was fixed then they would realize just how much they down. Legionnaire can't hit hard enough to save it's life and his guard break too easily whereas the Arcane warrior is swimming in a sea of barrier. Templar is stronger than Legionnaire and barely has guard.

[LearnedHand]

At the end of the day, I would rather have new classes. The class balances between the existing characters is not that bad. I play and enjoy more or less all of them. Some are more beginner friendly than others, that is to be expected. Some are more support than dps, that too is to be expected. I would not like to see "tweaks" to existing classes substitute for new content.

[Drasca]

Drasca, for all of these reasons, Templar needs help.

 

Also, I didn't mention it because it's a personal opinion but I despise Shield Wall and drop it off my skills as a Lego as soon as possible and truly hate that it is required by the Templar to

 

Oh I know Templar needs help, but the only way I can help players directly right now is through training (as I have no control over development, and only very minor influence communicating to the devs). I love that BWE Luke has started here, but the way development works is we won't likely see changes for some time in the live version, and there'll be quite a bit of lag between our communication, and their ideas, whiteboards, meetings, working and testing, repeat (let alone releasing to the public). In the meantime, you have the opportunity to learn Templar and have a lot of fun owning the game.

 

Those calling for Wrath / Purge nerf isn't helping. That's the only thing keeping her powerful at all right now. She's technically viable without, but not very fun. For Templar you can be less geared, but you won't be carrying Perilous solo. The HoV nerf made it more unnecessarily difficult. I also need to clarify you need to choose high base weapon damage (swords, usually) as opposed to high dps (axes, maces) if you have multiple 1H equipment, and some appears to have higher dps than others, but the other has higher base weapon damage. For example, a sword with 100 damage, but lower 120 dps, but an axe with 150 dps, but lower base weapon damage of 80.

 

If you're lesser geared, you'll likely just be carrying threatening and below solo, or play in an actual team on perilous, which would be true for all cases with lesser gear.

 

SW isn't good on the Lego because Lego has 3x direct invincibility abilties, and lots of indirect ones.

 

SW is fantastic on Templar, but it is a L2P issue. You don't use it for 'guard'. Guard is trash at the moment. You use it for blocking high alpha burst damage situationally. Demon Commander is one of them. Occasional arrows, but you never stay shield wall up for long. Stamina management is an issue and the amulet (that I don't have btw), and Deep Reserves passive for Stamina are both mandatory, as well as SWAC for additional stamina return.

 

If you learn it can be amazing.

 

BWE Luke is listening and working on stuff, which is awesome, but no one knows how long that'll take. In the meantime, consider actually learning the current successful playstyles of Templar, and its roles in a team.

[Apl_Juice]

Couple things, based off of what I'm reading:

 

1. The Hunter is not weak; his problem is that he is handcuffed to the Griffon Bow. Without it, he most certainly is a poor man's Archer. With it, however, he is equally effective close up as he is from afar. 3 Critical Hits per normal shot do amazing things in regards to Stamina Regeneration and Stealth cooldown, not to mention it is enough to drop just about any normal enemy. Stealth'd Explosive Shot or Leaping Shot are both very heavy hitters. Even just walking up and firing a normal stealth'd shot into their back is huge damage too, thanks to Knife in the Shadows, First Blood, Stealth damage boost, and Razor's Edge, while Easy to Miss makes such a tactic safe. But like I said, without the Griffon Bow, he cannot Stealth constantly, and his Stamina regeneration takes a large hit, which is no bueno for a squishy rogue. An Archer will always kill more from afar, so Hunter needs that melee niche in order to compete. When new weapons release, please PLEASE make another bow similar to the Griffon Bow, or better yet, give the 3 arrow spread to one of Hunter's passives. This is all the Hunter needs, outside of buffs to his useless abilities that no one uses anyhow.

 

2. The Alchemist, in my opinion, suffers the most from the 4-slot restriction. There is a good mix of CC and just enough damage skills to make her deadly. Problem is, you have to pick and choose between those if you want to do either decently. For example, FoFr, FoFi+Knockout Bomb/Toxic Cloud are all great CC options. However, that right there is already 4 skills, which means no stealth, AKA suicide. Elementalist has one skill that takes a dump on all of those combined: Firestorm. Its safer, stronger, easier to do, and is much longer lasting. On the flipside, Ambush and Twin Fangs makes her a powerful hitter for problem enemies, but she doesn't compete against an Assassin, who has Hidden Blades to throw into the mix.

 

As far as buffs go, all her CCs deserve 'em. Flask of Frost needs to last much longer itself as well as the Frozen debuff it gives. Since a buff to Knockout Bomb or Toxic Cloud will affect other classes, buff it indirectly by changing on of her passives to boost the duration of status effects. Alchemy Mastery is a good start, but 25% only amounts to a second or two; its not enough; she really ought to have +75-100% duration. For a melee CC without any means of protecting herself other than Stealth, she should be rewarded for successfully locking down groups far more than the Elementalist who is probably hiding behind the corner while his Firestorm goes. Alchemists shouldn't spec like Assassins, so she doesn't need buffs to her 2nd tree much, if at all. The only damage skill that I would buff for her is Elemental Mines. Hunter can use that same buff, so changing the skill directly is probably a good idea, though I'm unsure as to how.

 

3. I haven't played much recently nor do I have as much experience with other classes as I have with these two, but from a cursory look, Sword and Board attacks could use a pick me up. It would be nice if Templar could do something other than her wombocombo, and Legos need a touch of help too when it comes to killing.

[LearnedHand]

Couple things, based off of what I'm reading:

 

2. The Alchemist, in my opinion, suffers the most from the 4-slot restriction. There is a good mix of CC and just enough damage skills to make her deadly. Problem is, you have to pick and choose between those if you want to do either decently. For example, FoFr, FoFi+Knockout Bomb/Toxic Cloud are all great CC options. However, that right there is already 4 skills, which means no stealth, AKA suicide. Elementalist has one skill that takes a dump on all of those combined: Firestorm. Its safer, stronger, easier to do, and is much longer lasting. On the flipside, Ambush and Twin Fangs makes her a powerful hitter for problem enemies, but she doesn't compete against an Assassin, who has Hidden Blades to throw into the mix.

 

As far as buffs go, all her CCs deserve 'em. Flask of Frost needs to last much longer itself as well as the Frozen debuff it gives. Since a buff to Knockout Bomb or Toxic Cloud will affect other classes, buff it indirectly by changing on of her passives to boost the duration of status effects. Alchemy Mastery is a good start, but 25% only amounts to a second or two; its not enough; she really ought to have +75-100% duration. For a melee CC without any means of protecting herself other than Stealth, she should be rewarded for successfully locking down groups far more than the Elementalist who is probably hiding behind the corner while his Firestorm goes. Alchemists shouldn't spec like Assassins, so she doesn't need buffs to her 2nd tree much, if at all. The only damage skill that I would buff for her is Elemental Mines. Hunter can use that same buff, so changing the skill directly is probably a good idea, though I'm unsure as to how.

Well said. I agree especially with the comment that the alchemist is hit by the 4 slot restriction the most.

[TormDK]

Those calling for Wrath / Purge nerf isn't helping. That's the only thing keeping her powerful at all right now. She's technically viable without, but not very fun. For Templar you can be less geared, but you won't be carrying Perilous solo. The HoV nerf made it more unnecessarily difficult. I also need to clarify you need to choose high base weapon damage (swords, usually) as opposed to high dps (axes, maces) if you have multiple 1H equipment, and some appears to have higher dps than others, but the other has higher base weapon damage. For example, a sword with 100 damage, but lower 120 dps, but an axe with 150 dps, but lower base weapon damage of 80.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the whole purge/WoH combo thing. I'm of the opinion that that combo should not be all that the templar is about, where as you seem happy just to melt faces.

 

Personally, I find supporting the team more fun, than whatever kill streak combo I can pull off.

[CitizenThom]

It seems to me that some rock paper scissors is missing from guard/barrier mechanics. Guard should be super effective against archers, but not as much melees, and minimal against magic. Barrier should be super effective against magic, not as much against archers, and minimal against melee. Or something along those lines.

 

Barrier seems to work correctly, guard does not. Basically, full guard shouldn't be one shotted away by archer or stealth rogues in my opinion.

 

p.s. and I really like playing Keeper/Elementalist... but the only thing that compromises Katari on Perilous now is that Guard doesn't offer much more protection than a sheet of paper against archers.