Because Full Draw still wouldn't be worth the casting time.
It'd take a lot to bring the Hunter up to the Archer's level of ridiculousness. He's my most promoted class and requires very little effort beyond positioning. Add a Long Shot ring to the mix and it's even worse.
The Leaping Shot ring doesn't even work, so that's yet another disadvantage for Hunters, since they tend to swear by this skill.
wth
ive been using it for some time
thx biower.
DoD works, its just that DB uses stamina on both hits. DB's second hit needs to be stamina free unless it is a major balance issue.
They actually are two different problems, you can go from 100 to 0 stamina by killing an enemy with deathblow. It doesn't happen every time, but it happens sometimes.
wth
ive been using it for some time
thx biower.
Probably wouldnt take much more than giving his Full draw the ability to pierce multiple enemies, like archers full draw.
Not gonna go on another Hunter defense ralley (so let me anyways as usual), but I do find it peculiar that the most popular classes on "weakest" lists are the hybrids. Basically most complains boil down to "does less damage then", which I REALLY hope does not become the standard by which balancing is measured by.
The Archer has zero crowd control skills and not as many defensive maneuvers, and he makes up for it by high damage output and DPS - same goes for the Alchemist compared to the Assassin. It's streamlined gameplay versus indirect gameplay.
The reason I am complaining is merely that if you were to raise the sheer damage these two make, you'd have to fairly cut some of their survivability measures, which is something would kill the classes for me. I'm not saying my opinion is more valuable than those of others, I'm merely asking to consider this, too.
I agree with your views on the hunter. I can actually do very well with the hunter myself, and I love the fact that adds basically act like I don't exist, even outside of stealth.
The only issue I really have with the hunter, is the particular build I like to use takes so long to set up.
It doesn't really start to shine until around level 16-19.
I basically have to go down both trees to pick up my core abilities, and until i get all of the upgraded poison stuff, he's kind of boring to play.
Sorry to hear it. I tested it in-game since it doesn't change the tooltip, and saw no damage increase whatsoever.
I'd accept that change, though the cast time would still make lining it up a problem.
do you have a list of these bugs by any chance?
I don't have a comprehensive list, since I stopped playing regularly, but there were a few things effectively mentioned by veramis here:
http://forum.bioware...ems/?p=18696398
This was a while back, but there was still no tooltip change last time I checked, so chance is the ring is still broken.
Edit: Just ran another test vs. Red Templar swordsmen and got around 300-600 damage (bold = crit) without the ring. With the ring, the damage was around 375-780. The ring works now. Tooltip still doesn't reflect the increase, though.
Also, I didn't mention it because it's a personal opinion but I despise Shield Wall*snip*
Stop attacking, Stop pulling Aggro, Drain Stamina, all to build a bit of guard that is barely useable in Perilous? No thanks.
I think you forgot the part where you completely block any attack and take no damage whatsoever 
Well since Katari is my favourite class, i will login and test this new Katari.....chmm i hope there will be new difficulty. I dont want to brag but i prety much owned perilous with katari before this patch...
Alchemist is the weakest because, its doesnt have any cooldown reduction (shadow fist doesnt count much), and the "slot machine" (mines) are anoying as hell.
I said the same thing about the vorcha...
As for the Lego, I didn't say there was anything wrong with his ability to survive it's just that despite hitting mostly crits he takes forever to kill anything with his slow swings that also miss. Speaking of which there was this one time a lego on my team was the last person alive, I wanted the xp, it felt like an hour had gone by.
I myself don't have the (un)privilege of pugging, so I don't get to see horridly played Legos. Though you can't judge a character by what you see you in pug games.
I am pretty sure if you play the Lego yourself, with a proper build, a high level 1-handed weapon (preferably Caliban), attack animation cancelling, Payback Strike and To The Death, you won't find the damage output that bad. You might even be surprised how efficient and quick the Lego is when it comes to Boss killing.
Probably wouldnt take much more than giving his Full draw the ability to pierce multiple enemies, like archers full draw.
You mean Longshot right? FD doesn't pierce for Archers, does it?
Imo, archer long shot ability needs to be looked at or adjusted because this class relies on it far too much with opportunity knocks and other passives it's not uncommon to see five or six longshots fired in succession each hitting for 3-4k. For the stamina cost, which is far too little and the amount of dps and leniency in its upgrade with regards to los kills, it is very dominant. Have the stamina cost increased as well as los from its upgraded version be stricter. It's an extremely boring class, and adjusting it will make players diversify outside of just that ability or use it in a way that requires more tact. The trade-off is his low survivability, but I'm not hesitant to say it's a very one dimensional class in which most players rely on that one ability too much without much thought.
I'm inclined to agree, yet I wouldn't call him boring. I don't think people playing the Archer are simpletons in any way. It's way easier to deal high damage with the Archer, but it is also way easier to stay alive with the Hunter.
A bad Archer can have the best bow and a decent build, but he will get overwhelmed by the aggro generated from his very first Long Shot; as much as a bad Hunter is going to barely make a difference while spamming a few Explosive & Leaping Shots from the back rows, and occasionally finishing off dat half-dead Wraith with a mistargeted Full Draw.
Again, I think when it comes to balancing people underrate survivability and the fact that it's seldomly a problem in a group of there being enough players willing or able to simply dish out damage. I just really enjoy the fact that the Hunter is best played very differently, and I don't want that to change. I'm getting a little worried that most suggestions take the route of "make him more like the Archer".
I still don't understand why hunter does not have flanking fire and sneak attack passive both these are pretty vital for characters like him who excel mainly at close flank ranges, yet the archer has them?
He does have a sneak attack passive, the strongest in the game, so I don't mind. Also "I Was Never Here" in combination with "Watch Your Step" would be way too much. But I agree on the Flanking Fire perk - could easily be traded for the Disable passive IMO.
Hi Luke.
The following is based on my experience in perilous with respect to what the class brings to a team, since it feels as though the game is already well balanced on easier difficulties, in that all the classes are viable with half-decent gear.
Strongest: Always Winning, katari, elementalist, keeper, druffalo
Weakest: alchemist
I'm sure there will be a load of 1337 pro players complaining that "OMG elementalist is 2 ez pls nerf, i solo perilous at lvl 1 with my elbow". I would respectfully disagree that this is the case for many of us. The elementalist is currently a great gateway class for players trying to move up to perilous, and is very well balanced in my opinion. I say this because he's one of the less lag-screwed characters. Naturally I have a vested interest, since my router is a potato and a large proportion of my perilous playtime is spent moving at a crawl or trying to get the rubberbanding to let me go through a doorway (The rest is spent in the fade).
Regarding the alchemist, I suspect it's a l2play issue because a lot of people swear by various perilous viable builds. I just haven't been able to find a role for her. She doesn't provide enough CC with her skittles even with flask of fire abuse. Most of the mines end up just lying around, and the ones that do his merely provide chilled, shocked or burning. Perhaps if they inflicted freeze/paralyse/panic? Or would that be too overpowered?
Nor does she have sufficient spike damage. Flask of frost allows me to freeze a couple of enemies. I can then shatter one of them with shadow strike for spike damage. The assassin already fills this role far better, with twin fangs and hidden blades, and can shred multiple high priority targets far more quickly. For example, neither red templar knights nor despair demons can be frozen. I've also tried a poison based build, but due to the massive enemy HP pools it's not particularly helpful to the team.
tl;dr please buff alchemist
Hahahaha! I love you.
Necromancer:
Simulacrum tends to get the necromancer killed more than it benefits her, as the heal on kill she receives with her spells are wasted here as she is in ghost form instead of reviving her. The change to self-revives counting toward total revive count has nerfed Necromancers in particular. Spells may not have a mana cost, but they are still on cooldown. Initially resetting all spells on cooldown when entering 'ghost form' and preventing the player from accidently using healing potion would go a long way toward reducing frustration with the Necromancer.
QFT
I think you forgot the part where you completely block an attack and take no damage whatsoever from that one attack
FTFY
One of the reasons I quickly realised I hated Shield Wall was precisely because I could take damage while using Shield Wall, you can block an alpha strike, but it is not something you can rely on to turtle with.
You mean Longshot right? FD doesn't pierce for Archers, does it?
Your right, I said the wrong thing.
Still sounds like fun to me, imagine breaking from stealth to hit, well, everything with 7k damage.
Attributes from promotions needs to be looked at again. As it is now, each successive point becomes increasingly more powerful than prior points for damage reduction, and is a linear increase for critical chance. People can reach the 80% damage reduction cap, have very high HP, and quite literally take 5-10x more damage than fresh accounts. It might be worth considering adding some diminishing return or lower damage reduction cap, but keep in mind not to do it too much because many players just play this game in order to keep on farming promotions and they won't be happy with a drastic nerf to the effects of promotions.
I hope this is looked at more than any class changes. Truth be told, there are three levers you can pull to rebalance the game:
1.) Nerf/Buff Classes
2.) Nerf/Buff Gear
3.) Nerf Promotion Stats
Please just don't focus on #1 and ignore the other two levers. If you focus on just classes, that doesn't really fix the problem of imbalance between players. Gear and promotion stats can cause a huge disparity in power level from player A to player B. It's this huge disparity that causes many problems in the game - (i.e., people running ahead to steamroll everything while others stay behind to open doors).
People are leaving this game because it is too boring (no challenge). Fixing the classes is not going to address this issue, really. Fixing the gear and the stats will.
People are leaving this game because it is too boring (no challenge). Fixing the classes is not going to address this issue, really. Fixing the gear and the stats will.
You are making some good points here. But regardless, I would keep playing the game with the same old challenge, if only I had, I dunno, a fourth map?
I'm just saying balancing per se is never wrong and always needed to be improved. But an effort to secure longevity shouldn't start at balancing.
I for one would love to complain about OPness while looking at different stuff.
I will echo the sentiment that Class balance is not really a big issue in this game. Partly because its a co-op game and partly because its not that far off.
Content and Variety is the biggest pain point for me and likely many others. I can see the case for BW tackling class balance first as low hanging fruit though.
Just a thought on Arcane Warrior, I wouldn't mind it being OP at higher levels,
it's just when a player drops into a lobby with a Level 1 AW expecting to walk the match...
Perhaps any nerfing focus could be on base skills, with upgrades less affected...?
Buff poisons. This would go a long way to buffing the 2 weakest classes (hunter/Alch). The current state is just ridiculous, when the assassin can burst out five digit damage, why would she use poisons that tick for two digits? Have throwing knives apply poison as well since it fits with that tree's synergy. If you don't want to just up the damage you may consider having the poison applications stack on each other. Remove the 1 poison cloud at a time limit, or have the cloud apply more stacks of poison if they stay inside the cloud.
I will echo the sentiment that Class balance is not really a big issue in this game. Partly because its a co-op game and partly because its not that far off.
Content and Variety is the biggest pain point for me and likely many others. I can see the case for BW tackling class balance first as low hanging fruit though.
This ^^
Would it be cool if you could progress quickly with bad gear/promotions playing warriors and rogues? Yeah, but right now its in your best interest to play the mage classes early on in your DAMP experience. Not really a terrible system. Newer players get to learn the mechanics of the game while they play as primarily support classes for their teammates who are "hopefully" a little more experienced. In time their gear will catch up and the cycle continues with the next crop of DAMP players. Because all the classes are viable, yes even the amazing shatter alchemist and bomber hunter, if not overpowered once gear/promotions get to a certain point.
We need new content...priority #1.
Just give us a new difficulty that is nothing more than the April fools event with added XP until its time for proper DLC. Looking at you Biomasika and Luke.
I so wish Block and Slash didn't cost stamina for the slash portion, and that the slash could reflect projectiles. If Spirit Blade can do it, why not Block & Slash (which is pretty undeniably harder to use)
Hahahaha! I love you.
so please attempt to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If this goes well it will certainly increase the odds of it happening with more frequency
ok, it's starting to drift a little, but for BSN, 4 pages of deep player insight, pretty much spam and snark free is a serious achievement 
.
So if you could reply with whichever class you feel isn't up to par and maybe a very brief explanation as to why (in your opinion) that would be fantastic.
As a side note, I would like to increase the amount of developer interaction with the community here so please attempt to stay on topic and not derail the thread. If this goes well it will certainly increase the odds of it happening with more frequency
Just curious, what limitations are you working around when making changes? The Katari buff didn't involve changing the skill tree ect...it was Multiplayer exclusive. Are mechanical changes like that what you plan to use to buff or nerf the classes in place? Or would changing skill trees be an option? I'm assuming changing abilities functions isn't an option, and as a result buffing poison or throwing blades would not be achievable?
Hunter: Adding "I Was Never Here" or "Opportunity Knocks" would elevate it to nearly the same level as the archer, if not even more so. Longshots awesome but sweet shotguns with LBTG auto crits out of stealth with opportunity knocks could be pretty salty. Would have to be one or the other, not both.
Alchemist: Increase frost flask duration? Add deathblow?
Arcane Warrior: Remove GS. Change how FC generates barrier or remove it all together.
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