I thought the only (working) mage detonators were mind blast, dispel, and energy barrage? Does immolate actually detonate now?
I've been thinking about this some more. Rather than balancing whole classes, I'm thinking more specifically skill improvements.
Promotion system:
A lot of these high level players have been crying for the abolition or heavy nerfing of the system because they've spent so much time playing and grinding promotions, that, guess what, they are so strong the game is now easy. Seeing as the promotion system is the only real progression in the game (because god knows the loot system isn't reliable for that) that would be a huge mistake. I know I would sell the game if that happened, because without something to strive for, I have no interest in this game. With that in mind, I think at least one reform for the system is in order.
Right now, if you want to get cunning, and thus the all-important crit chance, you are forced to play rogues. Ditto for willpower and mages. Then we have the most useless of the three, constitution, for warriors. I personally prefer warrior gameplay, but because I need cunning and willpower, I'm forced to play as the two other archetypes. My idea goes like this- you promote something, and you get an attribute point. This point can then be distributed into any of the attributes, including the class specific ones like dexterity and strength. This would make it equally rewarding to play as any archetype, so you can pick your favorites rather than the ones you must use to get a specific attribute.
Skills:
Lightning Bolt: A completely useless ability. Single target paralysis and damage depending on how many enemies are around? There are zero situations where lightning bolt is more useful than static cage, yet LB's mana cost and cooldown are higher. What? A big decrease in mana cost and CD might make it more attractive.
Poison Cloud: It's been brought up, but it bears repeating- if your team is killing enemies slow enough for poison cloud to be of any use, you're probably not going to make it anyway.
Flashfire: a good idea in theory, but in practice it's too situational. I would suggest that rather than a panic effect, make it a frenzy effect: maddened by the pain, they turn on their allies until the burning effect ends. This way the necro could have two pets 
Ring of Pain: costs too much stamina. Really, it shouldn't cost stamina at all. A simple duration and cooldown would serve its purpose much, much better.
Blessed blades: BB's downfall is its small aoe. Trying to stay inside that little circle in the midst of a running battle is doomed to failure. As others have said, a larger aoe and/or constant, moving effect like bodyguard would be a big improvement.
I'd like to change the promotion system so it scales differently but that may take a bit. As you said, definitely don't want to just cap it. I've got some ideas but I want to make sure they're actually possible on our end before I let everyone in on my plans
And I'm thinking any tweak would not want to break anything for new players,
who I keep seeing joining lobbies
And I'm thinking any tweak would not want to break anything for new players,
who I keep seeing joining lobbies
To be fair, I'm pretty certain no tweak could make things worse for new players than the current promotion setup. Or veteran players/leaderboarders, though for very different reasons.
To be fair, I'm pretty certain no tweak could make things worse for new players than the current promotion setup. Or veteran players/leaderboarders, though for very different reasons.
Of course in MEMP, promotions did nothing other than giving you a sexy N7 score and a banner
so this is a step forward 
Of course in MEMP, promotions did nothing other than giving you a sexy N7 score and a banner
so this is a step forward
N7 120 4 lyfe
N7 120 4 lyfe
I stopped at 4444 simply because it was a cute number 
Of course in MEMP, promotions did nothing other than giving you a sexy N7 score and a banner
so this is a step forward
Given that most of my friends and I preferred the ME3 system over uncapped account-wide stat advantages, that raises what the definition of "forward" is. For us and for the staff.
Given that most of my friends and I preferred the ME3 system over uncapped account-wide stat advantages, that raises what the definition of "forward" is. For us and for the staff.
ME3 had a weapon progression system that was a hell of a lot better than DAMP's. It was a much better indicator of time spent. Besides, shooters need to be balanced, dungeon crawlers not so much.
I'd like to change the promotion system so it scales differently but that may take a bit. As you said, definitely don't want to just cap it. I've got some ideas but I want to make sure they're actually possible on our end before I let everyone in on my plans
The scales could be altered I'd imagine, but there are other ways to make promoting more meaningful. Every promotion could reward you with crafting materials for that particular class. There could also be promotion milestones (both general and character-based) that reward you with an item, weapon, armor, and/or schematic. So for example:
General
Every 5 promotions: Free large chest
Every 10 promotions: 50% Experience and Gold bonus for 5 days
Every 25 promotions: Unique item raffle, where at least one item you receive will always be of unique rarity
Character-based
Necromancer:
5 Promotions: Ability to tint characters clothing
10 Promotions: Mage Schematic
25 Promotions: Grants you a unique piece of armor that has significantly higher stats than her current unique set.
I will agree that the Alchemist is a very weak class, primarily because her entire alchemy tree consists of skills with short durations, mediocre effects and long cooldowns. All skills in this tree have a cooldown minimum of 20 seconds, with no passives that can help reduce the timer, which makes this character useless in extended encounters when everything is recharging. There's also very little synergy between the alchemy and cunning trees, giving me little clue how to effectively build her aside from fully going down the cunning tree. But why do that when the assassin's a much stronger alternative?
Reaver's pretty weak as well. Without superb:
she may as well make routine runs, as she, like the templar, is far too gear-dependent to function outside of routine (which is why I dropped them). Other people have proposed better solutions to these problems (if they are problems at all to some), so I won't bother typing mine up, as they would sound too similar. Come to think of it, my problems with the alchemist have been better highlighted by more thoughtful posters, so my post is in a way, irrelevant.
ME3 had a weapon progression system that was a hell of a lot better than DAMP's. It was a much better indicator of time spent. Besides, shooters need to be balanced, dungeon crawlers not so much.
True. But the most important effect of this difference, in my view, is that you progressed in ME3 by playing the game in a natural and fun way. With DAI, in order for you to progress you have to sacrifice short-term fun and normal play in order to get long-term progression. You're constantly weakening yourself, having less fun, and going through bizarre promotion hoops (difficulty downgrades or else the promotion exploit, which is very much not natural play) in order to progress.
I don't care all that much how reasonable it is that we've arrived where we're at; what matters to me is that we have to sacrifice fun in order to get any real kind of progress. We don't improve just by playing the game--not without going through these bizarre, uncomfortable contortions. That's a problem. That's a huge, glaring problem. And what's more, the final payoff for this frustration cycle doesn't really make things more fun.
In my view, almost any system would be better than a constant promotion grind as the only real progression. Reward players for playing the game naturally, please.
True. But the most important effect of this difference, in my view, is that you progressed in ME3 by playing the game in a natural and fun way. With DAI, in order for you to progress you have to sacrifice short-term fun and normal play in order to get long-term progression. You're constantly weakening yourself, having less fun, and going through bizarre promotion hoops (difficulty downgrades or else the promotion exploit, which is very much not natural play) in order to progress.
I don't care all that much how reasonable it is that we've arrived where we're at; what matters to me is that we have to sacrifice fun in order to get any real kind of progress. We don't improve just by playing the game--not without going through these bizarre, uncomfortable contortions. That's a problem. That's a huge, glaring problem. And what's more, the final payoff for this frustration cycle doesn't really make things more fun.
In my view, almost any system would be better than a constant promotion grind as the only real progression. Reward players for playing the game naturally, please.
Promoting is a very usual multiplayer trait.
I remember in MEMP people would run with significantly sub-optimal builds to gain weapon and other banners.
Heck, I'd like to get my DAI Mace banner, so I'm doing much less damage at the moment by choice.
True. But the most important effect of this difference, in my view, is that you progressed in ME3 by playing the game in a natural and fun way. With DAI, in order for you to progress you have to sacrifice short-term fun and normal play in order to get long-term progression. You're constantly weakening yourself, having less fun, and going through bizarre promotion hoops (difficulty downgrades or else the promotion exploit, which is very much not natural play) in order to progress.
I don't care all that much how reasonable it is that we've arrived where we're at; what matters to me is that we have to sacrifice fun in order to get any real kind of progress. We don't improve just by playing the game--not without going through these bizarre, uncomfortable contortions. That's a problem. That's a huge, glaring problem. And what's more, the final payoff for this frustration cycle doesn't really make things more fun.
In my view, almost any system would be better than a constant promotion grind as the only real progression. Reward players for playing the game naturally, please.
Absolutely, it's kind of awkward and annoying. That much isn't being questioned. But it's way to late to change this game THAT much; such criticism is best applied to the next game. TBH though, I can't think of anything better that doesn't change DA into something unrecognizable.
Absolutely, it's kind of awkward and annoying. That much isn't being questioned. But it's way to late to change this game THAT much; such criticism is best applied to the next game. TBH though, I can't think of anything better that doesn't change DA into something unrecognizable.
I...actually think schematics are the cheap and easy way to make everything okay. It'd take a bit of work, but there's a loooot that could be done with that system, which isn't really being tapped right now.
Promoting is a very usual multiplayer trait.
I remember in MEMP people would run with significantly sub-optimal builds to gain weapon and other banners.
Heck, I'd like to get my DAI Mace banner, so I'm doing much less damage at the moment by choice.
Promoting to an extent is. But promotion is a chore in all these systems--just in DAI, it's an endless chore. You can pretty easily get Best of the Best in ME3 and then never promote again in your life. That's what I did about halfway through my playtime--plus leveling in that game was a lot less onerous. I've probably put more hours into DAI than ME3 and there's no sign of the chore-promotion ending.
A bit of anti-fun for account strength is an acceptable compromise. It's one of those things that ideally the hardcore players would do and the more casual ones would ignore enitrely. A pretty-mandatory infinite chore cycle, though, is far less acceptable. And indeed, this system is pretty mandatory given the benefits and lack of advancement through any other avenue.
Promotion system:
A lot of these high level players have been crying for the abolition or heavy nerfing of the system because they've spent so much time playing and grinding promotions, that, guess what, they are so strong the game is now easy.
Nope, just the biggest whiners are crying about nerfs. The rest of us are busy having fun. It is disproportionate representation, where the most frequently loudest are heard, rather than the general whole.
I will agree that the Alchemist is a very weak class
Reaver's pretty weak as well. Without ...
The gear and promotes enable the weaker gear/stat dependent classes to be fun.
I'd like to change the promotion system so it scales differently but that may take a bit. As you said, definitely don't want to just cap it. I've got some ideas but I want to make sure they're actually possible on our end before I let everyone in on my plans
I seriously hope you remain true about treading carefully here. Some of us have spent hundreds or even thousands of hours grinding based upon the current promote system. Making it more rewarding would be awesome (or horizontal benefits as suggested above), but follow the negative thoughts of a few crying out would not be good those of us not complaining about the benefits of promotes. Also please brush up on the math involved, considering the implications on every major ability, and gear involved. It is a lot of work for me just to calculate what I need for my own builds, let alone worse builds.
I've spent a lot of time doing calculations and testing how damage works with the different gear, stats, abilities, enemy types, terrain, direction, etc. It is really difficult to actually assess how useful the promotes are without a lot of context, because it varies a lot from situation to situation, skill builds, abilities used, relative positions of players and enemies, lag.
Those that oversimplify thinking, oh more willpower --> more attack power = direct killing speed, are almost always going to be wrong to various degrees depending on what's used (long shot's bonus damage not being affected by attack power for example).
The permutations of how all these numbers interact is immense, and with a lot of implications for better and worse. Please treat it seriously, and consider some of those deeper interactions as you design your plans.
I...actually think schematics are the cheap and easy way to make everything okay. It'd take a bit of work, but there's a loooot that could be done with that system, which isn't really being tapped right now.
And indeed, this system is pretty mandatory given the benefits and lack of advancement through any other avenue.
We definitely need other avenues, and I too am a supporter for schematic / crafting based avenues. If it takes grinding for 100+ mats, or high tier mats for the 'i want this' item, but it is definitely obtainable, the players will want to do it and believe it is possible to advance. That can be scaled for different levels of progression of course too, but a solid avenue is very useful for the player.
The gear and promotes enable the weaker gear/stat dependent classes to be fun.
But is that how it should be? I know when I first took reaver to threatening I thought "welp, I guess I'd better get some promotions and better gear before I can do this." With lego I was able to do threatening with mediocre gear and next to no promotions. And that's pretty stupid when you think about it. I'm supposed to grind for gear and stats just to be able to effectively play a toon? Shouldn't they all be playable with beginner stats/gear?
But is that how it should be? I know when I first took reaver to threatening I thought "welp, I guess I'd better get some promotions and better gear before I can do this." With lego I was able to do threatening with mediocre gear and next to no promotions. And that's pretty stupid when you think about it. I'm supposed to grind for gear and stats just to be able to effectively play a toon? Shouldn't they all be playable with beginner stats/gear?
The Reaver has a high learning curve AND a high gear curve for perilous difficulty. Threatening and below is pretty much just gear OR L2P. I'm currently to the point where I could (and have) brought in kits without gear or promotes to perilous & threatening (though no longer threatening), that normally require both gear and learning curve. AFAIK, everything is balanced around routine, with threatening being doable with gear, and perilous players left to fend for themselves (and where most of the balance breaks).
I'm all for improving the learning curve for playing. I don't know how to do that though (outside of third party help). There's no inherent system right now for in-game encyclopedia / tutorials for the various kits, nor able to direct to outside sources / player built wiki in-game. This game isn't built with that sort of community input mind. The souls series had player notes in its game, which is sort of interesting way of letting player input. I played Star Ruler 2, which has tabs that open a community wiki and player shared ship designs too (useful, with its limits). This game is not built with linking to community voted favorite builds / gear and such. Dragon Age HQ isn't very good for that either (showing only your own gear + characters). I don't think anyone has built a third party website with those in mind either (I lack the web developing skills too for sure)
But is that how it should be? I know when I first took reaver to threatening I thought "welp, I guess I'd better get some promotions and better gear before I can do this." With lego I was able to do threatening with mediocre gear and next to no promotions. And that's pretty stupid when you think about it. I'm supposed to grind for gear and stats just to be able to effectively play a toon? Shouldn't they all be playable with beginner stats/gear?
I rather like the evolution of builds which the game supports.
Base level Legionnaires and Templars spend much of their time walking around with Shield Wall up.
As your gear and stats improve, other builds become viable.
I'm discovering viable builds with the Alchemist that were unthinkable at lower prestige and gear.
Well, the fact the skill trees are made the way they are also makes most of the builds only viable in later levels.
In ME3MP, you had all your skills by level 3 (or 2 if you skipped 1 skill). That means that by level 3 you were already "effective". My best Assassin build in DAMP gets her last skill on level 16... That's a lot of games without what I would need to call it a "different" build than "normal".
I get that the skill trees are designed in a traditional RPG style of dungeon crawling, but we cap at level 20 and promote so it doesn't really make sense in that context. It also reduce greatly the number of build we can come up with... Somebody forgot this wasn't an MMO, we don't keep our character at max level and they don't stay there long either...
Fully agree with TheThirdRace. Would it be feasible to restructure the skill trees so that they are broader, rather than deeper? That way, the number of viable builds would increase, also increasing replay value.
The trees only support going so wide but I'll try an experiment when I have some time with one of the characters and see how it feels.
This is great, man. This is the kind of stuff we ask for, you know? To feel like we're being taken seriously, that we are being listened to. You don't even have to implement all, or any of it really, but if we know you tried/are trying, it means the world to us. To know something is always better than nothing. Thank you!
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