42 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreizehn]

From reading through the forums I got the impression most of the players say the game's combats are too easy.

I play on normal difficulty, I am currently level 20, try to beat some of the dragons and have a really hard time.

Actually i was able to beat 3 of them but just now I am at Dragon Island and "try" to fight this lv. 19 dragon... and my best result is beating him to 50% health.

 

Please tell me what you did to have no problems at all. My main problem is my characters ignoring where they should stand (and mostly refusing to revive) but as far as I've read that shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

My party consists of me (mage), Cassandra (sword & shield), Varric and Cole. I have already unlocked all 3 levels of the focus.

[Taki17]

What are your character builds and their equipment?

[capn233]

From reading through the forums I got the impression most of the players say the game's combats are too easy.

I play on normal difficulty, I am currently level 20, try to beat some of the dragons and have a really hard time.

Actually i was able to beat 3 of them but just now I am at Dragon Island and "try" to fight this lv. 19 dragon... and my best result is beating him to 50% health.

 

Please tell me what you did to have no problems at all. My main problem is my characters ignoring where they should stand (and mostly refusing to revive) but as far as I've read that shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

My party consists of me (mage), Cassandra (sword & shield), Varric and Cole. I have already unlocked all 3 levels of the focus.

 

My first run started on normal, and I had more problems in the prologue than I did the first time I played on nightmare.  I had a similar experience in DAO.  In both cases just learning the game, tricks of the trade, and builds is the most important thing.

 

Are you using Tac Cam to order them to hold position?  I don't particularly care for how squad management works in this game, but usually double clicking in Tac Cam (can even do this when paused to make it easier on yourself) will cause them to hold position in the right spot.  As for revives, and some other orders, I still have problems every once in a while with the AI seemingly overriding an order when I switch to another character.

 

Post up your builds for your characters, the tactic / behavior setup, and also their gear.  If you hare having a lot of trouble damaging the dragon at similar level, it may very well be something about the builds or using weapons that aren't level appropriate.

[Gya]

As capn233 says, double clicking a spot in the ground in tac cam will get them to hold that position. You'll see a little shield icon on the ground which will tell you that they will hold once they get there.

As for revives, I believe this was addressed in a patch, though I can't recall which one. I've found that by using tac cam to order a companion to revive someone, then switching to another character before leaving tac cam, it seems to work. If you reselect that character outside of tac cam before they revive, it does something funny to their command order.

[Dreizehn]

Sorry, I should have written that from the beginning:

 

Mage (me)

Equipment:

Staff of the Void

Reinforced Battlemage Mail

Superior Battlemage Cowl

Superb Cooldown Amulet

Superb Belt of Spirit Resistance

Enhanced Winter's Grasp Ring

Enhanced Immolate Ring

 

Abilites:

Barrier

Winter's Grasp

Flashfire

Chain Lightning

Immolate

Mind Blast

Stonefist

Mark of the Rift

 

Belt:

Healing Potion

Lyrium Potion

Regeneration Potion

 

Cassandra:

Equipment:

Serpent's Rage

March of the Everlasting

Masterwork Battlemaster Armor

Venatori Helmet

Superb Amulet of Constitution

Superb Belt of Health

Enhanced Rampage Ring

Enhanced Counterstrike Ring

 

Abilities:

Shield Wall

Challenge

Payback Strike

Grappling Chain

Shield Bash

Charging Bull

Blessed Blades

Wrath of Heaven

 

Belt:

Healing Potion

Rock Armor Tonic

Regeneration Potion

 

Varric

Equipment:

Bianca

Prowler Armor

Curse of Morrac

Amulet of Dexterity

Suberp Belt of Being Hit

Enhanced Explosive Shot Ring

Enhanced Explosive Shot Ring

 

Abilities:

Long Shot

Hail of Arrows

Explosive Shot

Full Draw

Stealth

Poisoned Weapons

Knockout Powder

Spike Trap

 

Belt:

Healing Potion

Antivan Fire

Confusion Grenade

 

Cole

 

Equipment:

Knightslayer

Darkspawn Sickle

Superior Hunter Armor

Assassin Hat

Enhanced Lifeward Amulet

Superior Grenades Belt

Enhanced Deathblow Ring

Enhanced Poisoned Weapons Ring

 

Abilities:

Knockout Bomb

Mask of Death

Deathblow

Stealth

Knockout Powder

Poisoned Weapons

Hidden Blade

Cloak of Shadows

 

Belt:

Healing Potion

Jar of Bees

Antivan Fire

 

edit:

Thanks for the hints. Yes, I am using Tac Cam but I expected my party to stay where I have left them (at least Varric and my mage) so I did not really use the 'stay' command. ...and I was not aware I could do this by double clicking.

My tactical settings are quite default.

[capn233]

Crafted weapons and armor are almost always better than whatever loot drops you get because masterworks are so powerful.

 

I might have missed it, but what specialization did the Inquisitor take?  In any case, for practically any mage, try to pick up Flashpoint and Clean Burn passives in the fire tree.  I personally don't care for Mind Blast except on a KE or some other CQB mage, so not sure how you are playing it.  It is on the way to ok passive though.  Stonefist upgraded would be even better if there was something to clump enemies like Static Cage, Pull of the Abyss, etc.  Winters Grasp is fine as a bread and butter skill I suppose.  Chain Lightning is fine too, although if you are fighting Vinsomer, she has electricity resistance IIRC.

 

Cassandra looks like she is the tank, so it would be a bit more ideal if you had some more skills from Vanguard, like War Cry (upgraded is also good for armor bonus), and possibly Unbowed (upgraded).  Make sure Charging Bull is upgraded if it isn't.  All these abilities should be set to "Preferred" in the tactics section.  Rampage is the Reaver focus skill, and Counterstrike is the Champion focus skill so those rings should probably be replaced at your convenience with something more general like critical chance or maybe life drain.  Wrath of Heaven is fine against mobs of mooks, it probably won't be too great against Vinsomer.  So might want to just disable it for the fight.

 

IMO Dagger assassin rogues like Cole should mainly just need upgraded Flank Attack, upgraded Deathblow, Upgraded Stealth, Upgraded Hidden Blades, Mark of Death (which will help a lot against Dragons), then fill out the rest of the passives in Assassin except for throatcutter (can get later), try to get Pincushion from the archer tree (it works for daggers), Evasion, Easy to Miss, Look Like It Hurt... and then you can just start picking up whatever else you want.  That said, it might make your life easier if you just dropped Cole for another mage like Solas who could provide more barrier, and more CC/Weakening with Pull of the Abyss and other magic attacks.  If you do keep him, use his Mark of Death on the dragon to open the fight, and keep an eye on it to detonate (you get bonus damage if manually detonating).  The damage will be non-trivial depending on how much damage your party can do.  For instance, I set off MoD on the Hissing Waste dragon the other day for 33000 damage, at level 21.

 

Varric as an archer, try for Long Shot (upgraded), Stealth (set to preferred), Leaping Shot (upgraded), Pincushion passive, then fill out artificer passives for party buffs, and then other passives like I listed for Cole.  I set all his trap skills to disabled, and I don't personally care for using Full Draw on him, I prefer him to mainly auto attack and spam Long Shot.  Since he doesn't have Knife in the Shadows, boost his crit chance via crafting Bianca mods, rings, armor, whatever so he gets as many critical hits with arrows as possible.

[Gya]

Edit: once again, capn233 has beaten me to it!

@capn233

rift mage.

@OP

Your equipment seems fine though you might want to craft some T3 stuff, though I'm curious why Cass has a rampage ring? Am I missing something here?

If you're having trouble with 2 rogues, you could try switching up a bit. 2 mages is always easier, due to barrier rotation. I've not ever taken Cole along with me, but from what I've heard, the AI is awful at using him as a dw rogue. Unless you want to micromanage him for flanking bonuses etc.

Just something to double check, but have you accidentally applied a berserk masterwork to any of your equipment?

[SofaJockey]

 ...and I was not aware I could do this by double clicking.

 

I think I played around 800 hours before that penny dropped...

[Gya]

I think I played around 800 hours before that penny dropped...

Lies! You don't play SP

[Dreizehn]

Wow... that's a lot of great stuff I was not aware of. Thank you for these great hints.

Now I will concentrate on the tactical settings and the right abilities.

 

About Cole: I think using Dorian instead of Cole would be easier for me... but actually I really like Cole and the conversation between him and Varric is also great. ^^

[ndw542]

IIRC, Serpent's Rage (unless crafted version) has a Berserk effect, which means your tank is dealing slightly increased damage but receiving double damage. Probably a bit part of your problem.

[SofaJockey]

IIRC, Serpent's Rage (unless crafted version) has a Berserk effect, which means your tank is dealing slightly increased damage but receiving double damage. Probably a bit part of your problem.

 

Berserk: 20% Damage Bonus, 200% Damage from all Sources

[Magdalena11]

The axe Song of the Marshes comes with a master dragon rune on it, and an open hilt for crafted customization boosts.  Definitely worth seeking out, as it's got a poison masterwork that's cool too.  It's got a level restriction of 17, which is cool.  Against a dragon, berserk is a very dangerous talent to use.  All resistances drop, including drastic penalties to elemental resistance.  If Cass has gear that makes her weak to elements, any elixers/buffs you can think of would help.  I look on berserker loot as more DPS oriented (I lie--I sell it) and it's probably not a good fit for the party tank.  I wondered why Cass kept dying with the shield Wintersbreath equipped....  Think of things like a fully upgraded elemental elixer.  +60% against dragon's breath....

 

Obviously, double check your gear against your abilities.  Some masterwork allows cross-class access to talents, like guard and walking bomb or hidden blades, but rings only amplify the talents the character already has.

[PapaCharlie9]

You also need to prepare for the specific boss battle. Vinsomer uses an attack similar to Static Cage, so you either need a lot of electrical resistance, easiest through tonics but also through crafting armor, or you need evasion/fast escape skills. Every class has at least one. The lightning rings take a few seconds to detonate, so use an evasion skill, or if you are out of mana/stamina, just walk out of them.  If you start soon enough, you can get away.

 

Dragons have some standard attack patterns. Learn them and exploit them. For example, a tail swipe can be a very nasty attack, can one-shot a low HP character and knocks everyone down. But the dragon animation is very obvious and there is a fairly long wind-up time, so you have time to evade or prepare. When I run KE, I like to use Fade Cloak to negate those attacks. But you can avoid taking damage just by walking underneath the dragon's belly, if you start soon enough.

 

Make sure you have a save near the boss battle, but far enough away that you can fast travel back to base. Enter a new boss battle with eyes open and take notes. What can you exploit? What should be avoided? Learn from the first couple of battles, form an attack plan, reload from the save, go back to base and prepare, then try again. You'll get it on the third or fourth try.

 

Learn and adapt. The more you try to force the game to play the way you prefer it to play, rather than adapting to it, the more frustrated you will be.

[capn233]

@capn233

rift mage.

 

Yeah, wasn't thinking, even though I talked about Stonefist.

 

Oh and agree with above about Berserker equipment, that is not ideal except on a few special builds.

[caradoc2000]

Sera's Thousand Cuts is excellent against dragons.

[Dreizehn]

Again - thank you, I have realized there are a lot of flaws in my equipment and ability choices so I'll go for some blueprints to craft and gain experience to get the missing abilities.

 

Your equipment seems fine though you might want to craft some T3 stuff, though I'm curious why Cass has a rampage ring? Am I missing something here?

 

 

The Rampage ring is because I seem to have mixed something up. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll go exchange it now for something useful.

 I personally don't care for Mind Blast except on a KE or some other CQB mage, so not sure how you are playing it.  It is on the way to ok passive though.  Stonefist upgraded would be even better if there was something to clump enemies like Static Cage, Pull of the Abyss, etc.  Winters Grasp is fine as a bread and butter skill I suppose.  Chain Lightning is fine too, although if you are fighting Vinsomer, she has electricity resistance IIRC.

I am still a lot influenced by Dragon Age Origins where I could just freeze my enemies and shatter them with the stonefist. I try to stay away from the enemies with my mage - Mind Blast is only if they get near him, though that skill does not save him pretty well so I should think about taking something else instead. ...like upgrading the Stonefist :-) I haven't done that yet.

 

 

Berserk: 20% Damage Bonus, 200% Damage from all Sources

 

Thanks. That's something I really should get rid of now. ^^ I got that axe yesterday and I already wondered why she wasn't able to survive any bigger fight since yesterday as I had no problems that huge before.

[Alan Drifter13]

As someone already mentioned, make sure you craft T3 equipment. The schematics for the best weapons are at the shop you find in the fortress on Emprise du Lion (taking it won't be easy, though), while the schematics for the best armors are in the shop you find inside the canyon on the Hissing Wastes (the one guarded by a dog only). These maps also have T3 materials (Emprise du Lion is particularly good to farm T3 metal). There's also a great schematic for a bow in the cave north of your first camp in the Hissing Wastes (make sure you light the fires in the right order, follow the story, so you don't get demons appearing on your party).

 

Crafting the best equipment makes the game way easier, particularly in the harder difficulties.

 

Apart from this, I guess you didn't find out yet about the easy way of killing high dragons, so here goes the instructions (upgrading your focus to lvl 3 with Cullen's perks is very important for this tactic):

 

[SofaJockey]

Thanks. That's something I really should get rid of now. ^^ I got that axe yesterday and I already wondered why she wasn't able to survive any bigger fight since yesterday as I had no problems that huge before.

 

It's not totally a troll weapon as there are restricted uses,

but Baldur's Gate had troll weapons and this comes pretty close.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Maybe I'll just add my own strategy, for dragons specifically. You mentions Vinsomer, which is a lighting dragon, yet you use the Staff of the Void, which is lightning too, so your weapons does almost no damage to him.

What I typically did is craft the arm and leg pieces (they don't need to be tier 3 on normal, I play on hard). If you have belts offering the elemental resistance for a specific dragon, put it on your me lee or rogue characters.

As a Mage your best defence is mobility, so keep moving, and strafe the dragon with the opposite, or dissimilar damage (I.e. Fire for frost dragons, ice for fire dragons, ice or fire or spirit for lightning dragon).

I don't feel you really need crafted gear in this game, at least not normal or hard, as the masterpiece armors are decent enough. But either craft specific arm and leg pieces, or go the merchants and get the elemental resistance arm and leg pieces.

I used the Grand Enchanter staff for most of my play through, with Bloodwake as backup.
And I always specialise my second Mage for the fight ahead. So I had Dorian as a necro/fire and Vivienne as KE/ice with Solas as spirit/fade (I rarely used him for dragons, but for most of the MQ due to his dialogue).

And for all my people, I focus a lot on the passive attributes, given that you can only use 8 anyway. But the passives increase health, guard, strength, etc. So my own Mage, a KE, had only the first 2 lightning abilities, immolate, freeze, fade step + frost step, and the KE stuff without the heal ability. But I had all the passives that branch out from those actives. And also your staff and weapon upgrades. Focus on ones that also increase your primary attributes, as any ability over 10 starts adding a % damage (or defence in the case of wisdom) to you player. So few skills, but they do high damage.

Hope you can use some of that. I had no trouble with any dragons except the Ferelden Frostback, as I was only level 12 when I tackled him. The others are much easier in my experience

[S_i_d_e_winder]

There's a lot to juggle when fighting the Vinsomer which is why this fight can be so tough. I'm sure you already know most of this, but a reminder never hurt.

1. The Static Cage attack puts a circle of lightning around each team member. If one of them cross into another's circle, the damage doubles. You need to get rid of this effect quickly. Either mitigate it beforehand with a Lightning Potion, or have a Mage cast Dispel on the effect. Sometimes one Dispel can clear out two or three of the circles if you position it right. Have your mage reserve 20% mana. This way you can manually cast it when you need to. You could even disable Dispel so the AI doesn't misuse it. But keep it on ability bar so you can cast it manually when you take control of a mage.

2. The Malestrom attack where Vinsomer flaps his wings is devastating for ranged fighters. You need to get you mage/archer within that melee range circle quickly. Mages can use fade step and Rogues can use evade. I think its a good idea to keep your range characters closer to the dragons; just outside of melee range. It's tricky to get them in that sweet spot since the dragons jump around quite a bit, but it's better than getting pulled in with four wing sweeps which will wipe out all your health.

3. Vinsomer buffs up with Guard fairly often. Use the Shield bash upgraded with Ring the Bell to help drop the guard down. If your warrior is also using Might Offense potion that's another 50% of guard damage. War Horn upgraded with Break Their Spirit is supposed to work on Guard as well but I've never noticed the 1200% guard damage to work with Dragons.

4. I doubt if the Regeneration potions help you much. When you need it most you're usually dead before it does enough healing. Instead make sure everyone has Lightning potions, and then a Rock Armor, Mighty Offense, or Jar Of Bees and remember to use them. They work best if you can fully upgrade them.

5. Cole as Rogue Assassin. You can use him, but he's squishy. The best reason to take him along is Mark of Death. But you really need to control him. Wait for the Dragon to jump. After he lands, he won't be jumping around for a while. Drop into the Tac Cam and hit him with Mark Of Death, then Hidden Blades. Have your inquisitor cast Mark of the Rift, and have everyone else drop their biggest attacks and maybe a Jar of Bees. Then manually trigger the Mark of Death after they all hit. Manually triggering the Mark before the 8 second timeout doubles all that damage. Timing it right should get you 20k to 30k damage.

6. Remove Chain Lightning and Mind Blast. They don't help you here. Add Dispel for the removing the Lightning effect. Maybe add Fire Mine if you have it. Great damage if fully upgraded. It takes some time to cast but consider using it while Mark of Death is in effect.

7. You could consider replacing Varric with Blackwall. He should be able to survive longer, and that's one less ranged character that you need to maneuver during the wing-flap attack. You trade damage for survivability, so up to you which is more important.

The wiki has a breakdown of the Vinsomer dragon fight which may be helpful.
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Vinsomer

[PapaCharlie9]

4. I doubt if the Regeneration potions help you much. When you need it most you're usually dead before it does enough healing. Instead make sure everyone has Lightning potions, and then a Rock Armor, Mighty Offense, or Jar Of Bees and remember to use them. They work best if you can fully upgrade them.
 

I agree with most of your excellent advice, but I must disagree with this. Regen potion is absolutely worth it's slot on every character, particularly if you only have 8 max healing potions. Regen keeps characters from falling so low in health that they can get one-shotted by a melee attack or by a lightning ring. It also prevents AI characters from falling below the healing potion threshold, stretching that scarce resource out. Finally, fully upgraded, you get a healing AoE effect. When I have that potion active on all four characters, nobody needs to use a healing potion. Even for the Highland Ravager on Nightmare.

 

For me, I go dragon hunting with 12 healing potions, upgraded Regen, and upgraded elemental resistance, as high as I can go with the materials at hand. I'll even take special trips to get Withered Stalk and Amrita Vein just to have the best upgrades.

[Arvaarad]

4. I doubt if the Regeneration potions help you much.

+1. Against dragons, Mighty Offense and any other damage increasing potion (Jar of Bees, Tears of the Dead, Pitch Grenade...) is the best bet.

The fight lasts significantly longer if the dragon has chances to spam guard. It's very, very tempting to fight defensively, but the longer the dragon survives, the more damage it will do (which negates any added survivability).

And really, don't be shy about using the tac cam. Unless you're a crazy speedrunner, those pauses are helpful for avoiding the big, telegraphed attacks, and maximizing the damage of your big attacks:

Using Mighty Offense, stealthing, and flanking immediately before Hidden Blades.

Drinking lots of potions (to stack Killer's Alchemy) before stealthing and flanking for Thousand Cuts.

Doing big damage during Mark of Death.

Landing any party-wide buffs like Pitch Grenade or Horn of Valor before Mark of Death.

Saving focus skills for Mark of Death... basically anything involving Mark of Death.

[capn233]

I agree with most of your excellent advice, but I must disagree with this. Regen potion is absolutely worth it's slot on every character, particularly if you only have 8 max healing potions.

 

I agree. Regen potion, especially upgraded, is actually excellent for a potion slot.  This is probably doubly true for anybody who is having issues keeping their squad upright and is still learning the ropes.  The third potion slot can be used mainly for Bees, which is easily the best grenade.

 

Resistance tonics are highly situational, and I usually don't bother with them at all.  Of course they will help against the respective elemental type of whatever dragon you are fighting.

 

Mighty Offense does indeed increase your damage, but I don't know that I would recommend it over any of the above for anybody having issues with dragon fights, but if they want to spec out of a grenade or regen on one or two characters, sure.

[Dreizehn]

First of all thanks a lot for your explanations and great suggestions. I already realized a lot of mistakes I have made and I am not sure how long it would have taken to realize it on my own.

 

So I bought the respec necklace to correct some of my errors and made a new party:

My main (mage), Cassandra (tank), Sera and Cole.

I did so because i wanted to combine Mark of Death with Thousand Cuts as well as Rally and Mark of the Rift.

 

I tried to fight the The Highland Ravager and my best result was bringing it down to 30% hp. (it is still frustrating to have to use ~10 seconds of battletime to revive somebody but from what you have written here I think it should also work for me by now)

After the fight I've read somewhere that I should have at least level 23 for trying that dragon. Before I followed your suggestions I wasn't able to even come close to this result.

 

Can you please tell me if you see any bad mistakes from the list of my abilities I unlocked?

 

What I did:

 

Mage: (everything except dispel is disabled so I can take full control)

Barrier

Dispel

Chain Lightning

Static Cage

Winter's Grasp

Flashfire

Stonefist

Mark of the Rift

Actually I have upgraded all the spells I'm using. The reason I have left Flashfire in there for my fight against a fire-dragon is that I don't have another usable skill to replace it anyway (yet). I focused on passives:

Peaceful Aura

Guardian Spirit

Stormbringer

Gathering Storm

Flashpoint

Clean Burn

Mana Surge

Do you think Firestorm is good against ice-dragons? (better than Mark of the Rift?)

Actually I'd like to unlock Static Charge next. This will take 2 more levels for me.

 

Cassandra:

War Cry (preferred)

Unbowed (preferred)

Challenge

Charging Bull (preferred)

Shield Wall

Shield Bash

Blessed Blades (disabled)

Rally (disabled)

All upgraded too.

First I wanted to use Wrath of the Heaven too but I decided to use Shield Bash as it is better against block.

 

Passives:

Bear Mauls the Wolves

Untouchable Defense

It'll cost you

Trust the Steel

Cutting Words

Maker's Will

There is no Darkness

 

Sera:

 

Abilities:
Flank Attack

Deathblow

Twin Fangs

Hook and Tackle

Flask of Frost

Stealth

Thousand Cuts (disabled)

 

Passives:

Dance of Death

Sneak Attack

Looked like it Hurt

Evasion

Easy to Miss

Flaskmaster

(I know I should unlock Pincushion... but not enough skillpoints yet)

 

Cole:

Abilities:

Flank Attack

Mark of Death (disabled)

Deathblow

Stealth (preferred)

Knockout Powder

Poisoned Weapons

Hidden Blades (disabled to save it for Mark of Death)

Cloak of Shadows (disabled) (I think I'm gonna exchange that one later - I haven't found any good use for it)

 

It is embarassing but I forgot to exchange Cassandra's Serpent's Rage. Still.. after using the 'new' abilities she did not die during my fights.

 

Sera and Cole have quite similar stats. (no new armor here)

...and I used the Fire Resistance Tonic for Cassandra and Sera. Cole used an attack tonic but I will change this to a resistance tonic on the next run (against another dragon).

 

=============

 

edit: I was able to bring Kaltenzahn down to about 30.000 hp and lost the battle because I had to waste 5 healing potions because my characters continuously interrupted any try of reviving. All together I wasted about 20 - 30 seconds of battle time to keep my characters from running away from reviving. On all my 3 tries.

Actually I have no idea how others were able to handle these experiences. ^^