42 réponses à ce sujet

[Alan Drifter13]

First of all thanks a lot for your explanations and great suggestions. I already realized a lot of mistakes I have made and I am not sure how long it would have taken to realize it on my own.

 

So I bought the respec necklace to correct some of my errors and made a new party:

My main (mage), Cassandra (tank), Sera and Cole.

I did so because i wanted to combine Mark of Death with Thousand Cuts as well as Rally and Mark of the Rift.

 

I tried to fight the The Highland Ravager and my best result was bringing it down to 30% hp. (it is still frustrating to have to use ~10 seconds of battletime to revive somebody but from what you have written here I think it should also work for me by now)

After the fight I've read somewhere that I should have at least level 23 for trying that dragon. Before I followed your suggestions I wasn't able to even come close to this result.

 

You can beat the Highland Ravager "the easy way" before lvl 23, even in Nightmare. In this video (annotations explain the strategy) the inquisitor is lvl 22 and the companions are lvl 21:

 

 

But of course, check out the daggers I had crafted for Cole (at the end of the video). That's T3/4 materials with dragon slaying or corrupting runes. As I pointed out before, crafting is very important to make the game much easier.

 

I don't see any major issues with your new build, but when you are not fighting dragons you should let Cole use MOD and hidden blades, and Sera's stealth should be set to preferred too if she's using daggers.

[Dreizehn]

This is amazing. Thinking of my last fight that somehow ended after 10 minutes (I think).

 

What astonishes me the most is you're playing without a tank. I really did not expect that to work. What do you do when enemies are focusing on your mage? That's actually a big problem for me.

[Heidirs]

My party consists of me (mage), Cassandra (sword & shield), Varric and Cole. I have already unlocked all 3 levels of the focus.

 

I would recommend having at least two mages when going up against a dragon. That way, you have a second person covering barriers (assuming they have been given that trait). They also tend to be good at dealing damage. My all mage party did spectacularly against dragons, though I prefer to have more a mixed party.

 

Cassandra can be good, but I prefer Iron Bull personally as a damage dealer. Though, it depends on your build. Cassandra is still a good choice.

 

I don't like bringing rogues to the fight the dragons. Their attacks are weaker, IMO, and they die faster. Especially Cole. Cole is ALWAYS dying when I play. I would recommend not bringing any rogues and doing a two mage and two warrior party, if not a three mage and one warrior party.

[Arvaarad]

Mighty Offense does indeed increase your damage, but I don't know that I would recommend it over any of the above for anybody having issues with dragon fights, but if they want to spec out of a grenade or regen on one or two characters, sure.

Mighty Offense is almost game-breakingly good. First of all, the bonus damage is added to base damage (before multipliers), so the numbers are much bigger than they look.

Second, when fully upgraded, it gives +100% critical damage, which is obscene.

The fastest assassin Ravager kill, with no focus or Mighty Offense, is 22s. The fastest with no focus is 7s. Mighty Offense cut off 2/3 of the time.

How many regen potions do you need in order to cancel out 2/3 of the dragon's damage?

[S_i_d_e_winder]

edit: I was able to bring Kaltenzahn down to about 30.000 hp and lost the battle because I had to waste 5 healing potions because my characters continuously interrupted any try of reviving. All together I wasted about 20 - 30 seconds of battle time to keep my characters from running away from reviving. On all my 3 tries.
Actually I have no idea how others were able to handle these experiences. ^^

I always revive manually. NPCs don't seem to stay with the command too well, especially if they get interrupted with damage. But it seems like your right there. As you can see by everyone's good advice there's no one way to play. You should be able to find a lot of setups to fit your style. More mages, more rogues, less rogues, it all works. You just need to find what works best for you.

[S_i_d_e_winder]

You can beat the Highland Ravager "the easy way" before lvl 23, even in Nightmare. In this video (annotations explain the strategy) the inquisitor is lvl 22 and the companions are lvl 21:

That's just impressive!

[S_i_d_e_winder]

Regen potion is absolutely worth it's slot on every character, particularly if you only have 8 max healing potions. Regen keeps characters from falling so low in health that they can get one-shotted by a melee attack or by a lightning ring. It also prevents AI characters from falling below the healing potion threshold, stretching that scarce resource out. Finally, fully upgraded, you get a healing AoE effect. When I have that potion active on all four characters, nobody needs to use a healing potion. Even for the Highland Ravager on Nightmare.

Nice! Very good points here. My problem with them is I can't seem to get the best use out of them with the Dragons. The few times I've used the fully upgraded versions, the NPC's seem to move away before it took hold. So I stopped trying and went with some other tonics and grenades. The one thing I forgot about the Vinsomer, you have to fight through some Templars and dragonlings to get to him. So having a few Regens to top you off for Vinsomer is a good idea.

I learn more every day!

[Gya]

Mighty Offense is almost game-breakingly good. First of all, the bonus damage is added to base damage (before multipliers), so the numbers are much bigger than they look.

Second, when fully upgraded, it gives +100% critical damage, which is obscene.

The fastest assassin Ravager kill, with no focus or Mighty Offense, is 22s. The fastest with no focus is 7s. Mighty Offense cut off 2/3 of the time.

How many regen potions do you need in order to cancel out 2/3 of the dragon's damage?

Pffft, mighty offense is for scrubs. Real men use flask of fire + caltrops.

[Arvaarad]

Nice! Very good points here. My problem with them is I can't seem to get the best use out of them with the Dragons. The few times I've used the fully upgraded versions, the NPC's seem to move away before it took hold.

If you're having trouble with your allies wandering, try double-clicking the ground where you want them to stand. A little shield icon will show up, and they'll move to that location and hold it.

Proper positioning/holding helps (a lot) with dragon fights anyway, because all high dragon attacks have huge animations and are avoidable. Party members should only get hit if they're too slow or if she calls dragonlings.

[S_i_d_e_winder]

Yes, I agree. But doesn't switching between characters remove the hold?

[Arvaarad]

Yes, I agree. But doesn't switching between characters remove the hold?

It never does that for me.

I play with tactics off, so maybe some of the tactics can override the hold? That seems unlikely, though, as it would defeat the purpose of holding. Plus, I can choose close-range abilities without breaking a hold.

Maybe try doing a double-click hold instead of using the hold button? I've heard the hold button acts weirdly outside of tac cam.

[Gya]

Yes, I agree. But doesn't switching between characters remove the hold?

Like Arvaarad, I've also not had a problem with it if hold is initiated in tac cam. If you're in 3rd person OTS view, yeah, hold is completely random. Cassandra will continue to chase after a random ram that got accidentally aggro'd, Varric will run straight to the nearest bruiser to eyeball him in the crotch, and Solas will just wander off like the useless hippie rambler that he is.

Which brings me to another tip for OP: micromanagement. Other than your tank, who should be able to eat dragon attacks without too many problems, your companions will act like depressed lemmings listening to Radiohead on repeat. You'll have to pause and manually reposition them (best achieved by using tac cam), otherwise Dorian will assume that the dragon lifting up its back leg is inviting him to examine her nether regions, and run over for a closer look. AI tanks, however, use shield wall and payback strike like a boss.

[capn233]

Mighty Offense is almost game-breakingly good. First of all, the bonus damage is added to base damage (before multipliers), so the numbers are much bigger than they look.

Second, when fully upgraded, it gives +100% critical damage, which is obscene.

The fastest assassin Ravager kill, with no focus or Mighty Offense, is 22s. The fastest with no focus is 7s. Mighty Offense cut off 2/3 of the time.

How many regen potions do you need in order to cancel out 2/3 of the dragon's damage?

 

You mean if OP was killing the dragon in 22 seconds, he could save "2/3" of the time.  But I imagine if OP was killing the dragon that fast to begin with he wouldn't have made this thread.

 

The best reason to take Regens is to prevent squad members from dropping and wasting time ressing them.  Upgraded regens also do AOE heal, which boosts their healing efficiency dramatically.  In any case, if the squad is undergeared or have lowish crit chance for whatever reason the fight is going to drag on longer, and as it does Regens are probably going to be more beneficial than the Mighty Offense.  Or if character in question is a mage.

 

In any case, not dismissing MO, just disagreeing with the notion that regens are going to be useless against dragons, especially in a thread where someone is having problems keeping the squad up and spending time ressing them.

[Duelist]

If you have no qualms about using focus abilities, Varric or Sera alone, especially with Mighty Offense Tonic, are better than taking a full party.

For me personally, Varric and Hail Of Arrows has proven particularly effective against dragons that are a much higher level than my party.

[PapaCharlie9]

Mighty Offense is almost game-breakingly good. First of all, the bonus damage is added to base damage (before multipliers), so the numbers are much bigger than they look.

Second, when fully upgraded, it gives +100% critical damage, which is obscene.

The fastest assassin Ravager kill, with no focus or Mighty Offense, is 22s. The fastest with no focus is 7s. Mighty Offense cut off 2/3 of the time.

How many regen potions do you need in order to cancel out 2/3 of the dragon's damage?

 

 

You mean if OP was killing the dragon in 22 seconds, he could save "2/3" of the time.  But I imagine if OP was killing the dragon that fast to begin with he wouldn't have made this thread.

 

The best reason to take Regens is to prevent squad members from dropping and wasting time ressing them.  Upgraded regens also do AOE heal, which boosts their healing efficiency dramatically.  In any case, if the squad is undergeared or have lowish crit chance for whatever reason the fight is going to drag on longer, and as it does Regens are probably going to be more beneficial than the Mighty Offense.  Or if character in question is a mage.

 

In any case, not dismissing MO, just disagreeing with the notion that regens are going to be useless against dragons, especially in a thread where someone is having problems keeping the squad up and spending time ressing them.

 

 

Different goals, both valid. If you are going for a quick kill, I completely agree that gearing for maximum damage output makes sense. Short-circuiting the dragon's reinforcement and guard phases are important tactics for quick kill.

 

Back when TC + Flask of Fire was an "I WIN" button, I used to go for the easy kill every time. Got boring real quick, though. Now I play long ball with dragons. Sure, it means I have to deal with all the extra adds and guard and stuff, but I'm appreciating the challenge. So now I use Regen instead of MOP, oops, I mean MO.

[Arvaarad]

Different goals, both valid. If you are going for a quick kill, I completely agree that gearing for maximum damage output makes sense. Short-circuiting the dragon's reinforcement and guard phases are important tactics for quick kill.

And if someone is having trouble with the dragons, quicker is easier. Fast iteration means less big attacks to dodge, less frustration on failed runs (because it isn't an hour of fighting down the drain), and more immediate feedback when you're doing something wrong.

With a champion, if you're taking more damage from the dragon than you should, it can be hard to tell until the potions have all dried up. With rogues, you know. The dragon slaps off 80% of their health, you realize that maybe that attack should be avoided.

[jedidotflow]

TC, like you I play on Normal. Haven't had much trouble with dragons after following advice from other players. 

 

Two things:

1. Don't have more than 3 abilities set as preferred. More than 3 seems to bug them out.

2. Set party members to follow themselves, except for Cole, KE Vivienne, and Iron Bull; these three should be set to follow the tank.

[Alan Drifter13]

This is amazing. Thinking of my last fight that somehow ended after 10 minutes (I think).

 

What astonishes me the most is you're playing without a tank. I really did not expect that to work. What do you do when enemies are focusing on your mage? That's actually a big problem for me.

 

I brought this party just to a quick dragon kill. Normally I would bring a tank along, either Blackwall or Cass. Although, to be fair, the knight enchanter (in that video my inquisitor is a KE) can do the tank job quite well, except for the taunting part.

 

That's just impressive!

 

And I'm not even close to the best players in this forum. Some people kill that dragon in 20 seconds playing solo. With the best weapons and upgraded mighty offense tonics, it can be done. That's why people say this game is easy (once you learn how to beat it the easy way).