327 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Rpg]

Shepard's clone isn't even the same person that was before. It's just a replicant, and I stick more with Rick Deckard than with Roy Baty.

[wright1978]

I think CloneShep would've done OK for himself. Would've pissed people off and burned bridges, but he seemed competent enough. He was on to something about this whole "Cult of Shepard" crap. When it comes down to it, he hates the same stuff I hate in these games.

 

I think he/she would have been an abject failure for exactly these reasons. So desperate to burn bridges and escape from the iconism, which is vital in such darkest times.

[Iakus]

Which conversations? I must've missed them... I thought I explored a lot of dialogue.

 

The only fatalistic stuff I see in ME3 is Liara.. in general.

There's also the scene on Kronos where Shepard can briefly wonder if Shep is real, or just a sophisticated VI

 

Shepard throws K/A out of the way to take the brunt of unknown mystical energy X from the beacon, which we later learn would have exploded most other people's minds.
 

 

Did Shep intent to take the brunt of the energy?  Or tried to pull both back and didn't quite make it?  Did Shep even know it was a potetnialy lethal event, and not simply a security feature meant to restrain someone who tampered with the beacon?

 

 

 

Nope. Shepard was entirely dead before Project Lazarus, then brought back to destroy the Reapers because they're "unique".

Every second lived after Lazarus is "borrowed time" with a clear objective.

I'd take the whole thing a bit more seriously if the "death" accomplished anything beyond advancing the timeline two years.  

[Iakus]

Guess that depends on your view of Space Jesus, as opposed to just regular old Shepard. Could someone else fill that void?

In any event: without the objective, Shepard has no reason to be resurrected. With the objective, Shepard has a reason to be resurrected. TIM didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart so Shepard can have a second chance at doing ... whatever.
 

Yes.  The only thing truly special about Shepard is surviving the beacon.  That's what makes Shepard "unique" Possibly the Cipher as well.  But the beacon message was the important part.

 

TIM's nonsense was simple pandering.  Miranda could have accomplished what Shepard did.  Or any other halfway competent Cerberus Commander (I know, there's not many of those... ) Though likely with more deaths.

 

Also, there was no point to Shepard being dead at all.  It was purely a FEELZ-filled contrivance to advance the timeline and separate Shep from the old crew.  Just as killing Shep off in the endings was a FEELZ-filled contrivance to create an "artistic" ending to the trilogy.  

[dreamgazer]

Did Shep intent to take the brunt of the energy?  Or tried to pull both back and didn't quite make it?  Did Shep even know it was a potetnialy lethal event, and not simply a security feature meant to restrain someone who tampered with the beacon?

Instead of letting it play out or grabbing K/A and diving away, a concerned Shepard shoved K/A in the opposite direction and maintained his/her position while the energy did its job.

[themikefest]

I wonder why an X-Ray (or whatever equivalent tech) wouldn't answer this question. If it was really that severe, I'd think Chakwas would say something....

She did give Shepard the once over when you talk with her on the ship 

https://youtu.be/hNrzsGSNXTs?t=6m35s

[dreamgazer]

I don't think someone else could fill the void personally. Not because Shep's all powerful but because as Miranda says he/she is 'a bloody icon' and i struggle to see anyone else having same ability to bring everyone together. That's a natural human phenomenon.

It's also a natural human phenomenon to have multiple icons, especially following the death of one of said icons.

Either Shepard's all-powerful and all-important, or s/he's not.
 

No one's arguing TIM had an objective but that's as far as that goes. Shep isn't tied to TIM's whims.

Kinda is, actually, since TIM's whims about resurrecting this necessary "bloody icon" are the only reason Shepard's alive.

No Reaper harvest to stop, no Cerberus resources, no TIM faith = No Shepard. Borrowed time.
 

Shep's implants are clearly significant in giving him/her a quality of life but i see no reason why they can't be monitored, maintained and replaced. Especially if you've got the project director as a close ally/significant other.It's replaceable technology and should clearly be treated as such, otherwise you are going down handwaiving avenues of reasoning.

Even Miranda, for those who kept her alive, might not be able to circumvent the easy-to-imagine issues that could come about with the future shelf-life of Lazarus' complex implants, which are entirely experimental and untested in nature. Especially those involved with keeping Shepard's once-dead digi-brain alive and communicating with the rest of the body, and especially with "replaceable" tech. All sorts of hand-waves going on there.

Conversely, Shepard might even be immortal, not required to eat food and unable to reproduce. All up in the air, right, Mr. Clarke?

[dreamgazer]

This wasn't sacrifice. It was so Shepard could get that cheesy smile from Ash later on in the medbay.

Oh, it's both.

[dreamgazer]

I still don't see what's worth sacrificing for. I see plenty of reasons to fight... but not sacrifice.

You might not, but Shepard does. That's part of the railroading involved in this scene, the origin of this series. It's also why I chuckle at the notion of there not being a canon to Mass Effect. Suuuuuure.

[dreamgazer]

It's just his instinct and heroism. No different than a firefighter. Not this overblown religious bullshit.

(shrug)

I see what I see, and I don't really care about "overblown religious bullshit".

[dreamgazer]

You're just honing in on one thing.

Right: the scene that started the entire trilogy, which involves a display of willful sacrifice from the PC beyond the player's input.

[wright1978]

It's also a natural human phenomenon to have multiple icons, especially following the death of one of said icons.

Either Shepard's all-powerful and all-important, or s/he's not.
 

Kinda is, actually, since TIM's whims about resurrecting this necessary "bloody icon" are the only reason Shepard's alive.

No Reaper harvest to stop, no Cerberus resources, no TIM faith = No Shepard. Borrowed time.
 

Even Miranda, for those who kept her alive, might not be able to circumvent the easy-to-imagine issues that could come about with the future shelf-life of Lazarus' complex implants, which are entirely experimental and untested in nature. Especially those involved with keeping Shepard's once-dead digi-brain alive and communicating with the rest of the body, and especially with "replaceable" tech. All sorts of hand-waves going on there.

Conversely, Shepard might even be immortal, not required to eat food and unable to reproduce. All up in the air, right, Mr. Clarke?

 

No icons aren't easily replaceable, that's the point. There's no one in the narrative that could slot in & fill that void that the legend of Shep occupies.

 

TIM goals are why Shep is back but that doesn't tie him/hero to do whatever whim he wants. It's not borrowed time, its a second chance just as someone who has a disease cured that was going to kill them gets.

 

There's no suggestion in the game that Shep doesn't have to eat. As to reproduction, given the ways we've seen in terms of advanced technology making reproduction possible.(Miranda's father) don't see any reason to assume it's made his genetic material unable to be used for reproduction.

 

  Now there may be issues regarding long term issues with strain on his re-animated tissue i suppose(given renegade tissue breakdown) but not the actual tech itself, we can have both the head of the project and the tech itself. So there's every chance imo of being able to manage it to give Shep a decent lifespan.

[themikefest]

I'd be the first to say that Mass Effect would make for a really interesting alternate story if Ashley/Kaidan could have gotten the beacon message.

 

 Would Ash/Kaidan use the beacon on Virmire or would Shepard use it? Would Shepard get the cypher or would Ash/Kaidan?

 

If Ash/Kaidan did get the cypher instead of Shepard, they would be required for Ilos, Thessia and the From Ashes dlc. That would also mean they can't die during the coup

[dreamgazer]

Sacrifice has to be pretty willful and conscious, for one. He's just trying to get Ash out of the way.

Made the choice to do so in the first place, and didn't dive out of the way with her. Willful and conscious decision.
 

Secondly, I never got any impression it was so bad. If that was the intent, it sucked.

Except for Liara telling you that it's remarkable Shepard made it out of the situation.

[MrFob]

I would agree with dreamgazer that the beacon scene is a railroaded scene, that establishes one of Shepard's character traits. If I had to name one, I'd say the trait it establishes is "protective" but that is rather subjective, depending on how you interpret the scene and it may also be more than just one. I am not sure however, what the point here is (maybe I just didn't read back far enough, though).

 

EDIT: Oh, as for the OP, install JAM -> Problem solved.

[wright1978]

It's just inconsistent with what Saren knows.. or Shepard himself.. or Chakwas. It would have gone a long way to show some actual threat to Shepard's well being.

 

Liara's comments always just came off to me as Drew's attempt at writing a romance with a fawning blue space babe. She's just so instantly accessible... and it starts here with the beacon stuff.

 

Really unless Liara has knowledge of other beacons killing people(i'm missing), it strikes me as more the view of a naive isolated young Asari who's knowledge of humans is sketchy and most probably based a bit on Asari cultural condesending attitude to the relative newcomers.