327 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

Why not? I'm genuinely curious. It's start acting up and he blames Ash for it once he wakes up. Chakwas has to correct you for that.

 

I always like taking this negative approach though, because it's when Ash starts confronting you about your origins (Torfan/Akuze/etc) and starts mentioning "God" right away.

Chakwas mentions the beacon first. Shepard then continues the conversation by asking what happened to it. Ash/Kaidan blame themselves, Shepard can reinforce it or comfort them. Renegade Shepard would not care much about them though, I agree. It's what Torfan is all about, no? My Shepard is a Sole Survivor

[dreamgazer]

Tendency? No. Willingness? Yes. Shepard is presented as willing to put himself in harms way to save others (it is even strengthened considering Ashley had just joined the squad, it is not known that she'll join Shepard later on and there is the possibility of Shepard being highly reluctant to recruiting her). I think it's another form of sacrifice - sacrifice personal safety for that of the others. Saving Joker in ME2 intro is the similar.

Does Shepard have any idea of what the beacon's about to do? Nope, but s/he sure as hell responds to it as if it's dangerous.

Are we asked whether Shepard decides to run after Ash/Kaidan instead of smartly letting the situation play out? Nope.

Are we asked whether Shepard lunges both of them out of the way instead of pushing Ash/Kaidan backwards and standing in their place? Nope.

[dreamgazer]

Like I said, one can read too much into animations. Put everything in context, especially the after-conversation. Shepard doesn't have to be sacrificial. He can just be pissed off about the whole thing.

I get you, but that doesn't change the fact that you're given zero choice as to whether Shepard runs after K/A into the threatening energy or not, let alone the fact that it would be equally as easy to present an animation where Shepard pulls both of them out of harm's way. Instead, Shepard clearly acknowledges the threat of the situation, runs forward without any player input, and responds by hurling their body in front of the beacon and pushing A/K out of that danger zone.

Placing the blame on cutscene limitations only goes so far.

[dreamgazer]

I think they wanted them out of the way, of course (whether you view it as rescue or just concern for the beacon screwing up I think is up to us).
 
It's actually pretty stupid now examining it. I was fine before analyzing this.

Shepard also really didn't know whether the damage was already done to K/A before doing so or whether breaking that "transmission" would've corrupted the target's brain or neural network or whatever, so that sacrificial action feasibly could've borked both soldiers.

K/A afterwards: "No, don't touch him (her)! It's too dangerous!" Preach!

[MrFob]

So we are back to the argument: "Shepard jumped 5 inches further to the left then he could have, during a 8 second action scene". Well, I am not going to gi into that. But I maintain that he certainly did not linger around to be purposefully hit by the beacon. Protective? Yes. Sacrificial? No.

[themikefest]

On another note, I hope to God the next protagonist doesn't touch another mysterious artifact... Or that that's what all this "fate of humanity" stuff is all about. ME and DAI is enough. Err.... or did that happen in Kotor too?

Actually I hope the next main character doesn't ask this, How bad is it? That's Commander dumba** asking that question after Thane the dumba** played chicken with the wannabe assassin

[dreamgazer]

So we are back to the argument: "Shepard jumped 5 inches further to the left then he could have, during a 8 second action scene". Well, I am not going to gi into that. But I maintain that he certainly did not linger around to be purposefully hit by the beacon. Protective? Yes. Sacrificial? No.

More like: "Shepard acknowledged the danger of the beacon's energy, ran headlong into the device's impact area without the player's input whatsoever, and moved into place while pushing K/A out of the way instead of pulling both parties outside the impact area."

And the sequence is a tad more important to the arc of the game, let alone the series, than it being just an "8 second action scene".

[Iakus]

More like: "Shepard acknowledged the danger of the beacon's energy, ran headlong into the device's impact area without the player's input whatsoever, and moved into place while pushing K/A out of the way instead of pulling both parties outside the impact area."

And the sequence is a tad more important to the arc of the game, let alone the series, than it being just an "8 second action scene".

 

So "suicidal Shepard" is accurate in ME2 as well?

[MrFob]

More like: "Shepard acknowledged the danger of the beacon's energy, ran headlong into the device's impact area without the player's input whatsoever, and moved into place while pushing K/A out of the way instead of pulling both parties outside the impact area."

And the sequence is a tad more important to the arc of the game, let alone the series, than it being just an "8 second action scene".

 

The implications are important, yes. The action itself is not, it's a reflex of Shepard, who's on adrenaline (hence the railroading), not something he thinks about. It's not like he stands there for a moment, deliberates all the consequences and then acts, he does so immediately.

We are armchair interpreting the living crap out of something that happened in literally a few seconds. It's ridiculous.

 

If you want an example, Shepard saving Joker at the beginning of ME2 might be a better one, even (although, even there, I don't think Shepard planned on getting spaced either but at least there, the entire process is long enough for Shep to be fully aware of what he is doing.)

[dreamgazer]

The implications are important, yes. The action itself is not, it's a reflex of Shepard, who's on adrenaline (hence the railroading), not something he thinks about. It's not like he stands there for a moment, deliberates all the consequences and then acts, he does so immediately.

The action itself is, indeed, important. Had Shepard smartly responded to the scenario by letting it play out and safeguarding the other soldier or reflexively lunged the affected party out of the way, we'd have entirely different circumstances. We don't, because Shepard ran into the impact zone, moved in front of the beacon's energy, and threw K/A away in creation of a situation where they effectively took their place.

I'm not really in the mood to get into a discussion about whether acting on reflex is considered a conscious decision or not. Either way, whether it's considered a choice or a reaction, it's beyond the player's control and an inbuilt part of Shepard's character.
 

We are armchair interpreting the living crap out of something that happened in literally a few seconds. It's ridiculous.

No need to be derisive. It's a significant moment for the trilogy, both in terms of the plot and of Shepard's innate characterization that the player cannot avoid. Monumental things can, and do, happen in seconds. They can make or break what kind of person an individual is, or isn't.
 

If you want an example, Shepard saving Joker at the beginning of ME2 might be a better one, even (although, even there, I don't think Shepard planned on getting spaced either but at least there, the entire process is long enough for Shep to be fully aware of what he is doing.)

So "suicidal Shepard" is accurate in ME2 as well?

"Suicidal" isn't really the right term, but yeah, BioWare imposes their canon on Shepard in the intro Normandy sequence as well.

[themikefest]

Speaking of which, that's another failure of animators. They have a way of making the games more stupid than they need to be.

 

 

But I give that one a slide somewhat, because Thane and all of the Coup had to be re-written. Probably under pressure. Didn't take time to choreograph things or come up with anything truly inspired.

Too bad the game didn't have 12 more months to be worked on. 

[dreamgazer]

It deserves some derision. You might as well say Shepard is Paragon and there's a "canon" psychology. Rendering the other 200 hours of the series pointless, just because of 3 seconds of crappy animation.

There are canon elements to Shepard, yes, but I wouldn't instantly file that into the "Paragon" psychology.

"3 seconds of crappy animation" was also a scenario written out by Drew Karpyshyn that plays a crucial role in the trilogy.

[Vazgen]

What annoys me here though is if I took all this to it's natural conclusion, then we might as well skip to the very end and pick something like Synthesis. Forget playing the rest of the game. Just have the Beacon scene. And then Synthesis.

Just because Shepard is willing to sacrifice himself, doesn't mean he would do that in the ending circumstances. In fact, what Mr. Fob mentioned can very well play a role there - if the decision is not made in a heat of the moment Shepard might come to a different conclusion.

 

Shepard does have some canon personality but it is much more broad than Paragon/Renegade. Shepard is a hero. You can play a ruthless xenophobic jerk but Shepard will still care about his team, still care about Anderson, still hug Liara on Ilium etc. 

[themikefest]

The hug on Illium, while minor, just seems like sloppiness. They didn't know what to do with Liara and I remember the actress even saying she was confused at the time, and was just blindly saying lines. They tried to rectify things with Shadow Broker. And even made sure the "hug" was optional this time. lmao. Which is basically admitting the mistake... petty though it all may be.

They may of made the hug optional after the broker was killed, but they forgot about the other what-the-crap hug that Liara and Shepard have before she leaves if she was invited up to the Normandy

[themikefest]

I don't even invite her anymore. It just seems like it was animated for romance. Like wtf is she dressed up for. lol. I only invited her for a tour of the ship.. Not a ballroom dance. It was worth it once because she asked about your LI, but the whole situation is more geared for her really.

The other problem I had when I invited her up the one time is that lame story about Hackett  giving her my dogtags. I would like to ask her why he gave them to her.