21 réponses à ce sujet

[camphor]

I see many people upset by the leak, and this is not about the leak per say, but i am curious many call this a "lazy solution"

 

so can anyone not be lazy and simply think of a scenario were all the following things are true

 

1. you stay in the milky way

2. all endings are accounted for and not rendered non-cannon

3. without adding plot holes

4. without adding "space magic"

5. without adding a plot point that exists for the sole purpose of removing a plot hole (as in this one magical place in the milky way isnt effected by the catalyst because i said so)

6. is financially viable (just build the whole universe!)

7. that is by at least a majority of posters an acceptable solution

 

i am not trying to start yet another thread about the leaks authentic i just want to know if anyone can actually think of a scenario that's better then the one currently presented,

[Kabooooom]

I see many people upset by the leak, and this is not about the leak per say, but i am curious many call this a "lazy solution"

so can anyone not be lazy and simply think of a scenario were all the following things are true

1. you stay in the milky way
2. all endings are accounted for and not rendered non-cannon
3. without adding plot holes
4. without adding "space magic"
5. without adding a plot point that exists for the sole purpose of removing a plot hole (as in this one magical place in the milky way isnt effected by the catalyst because i said so)
6. is financially viable (just build the whole universe!)
7. that is by at least a majority of posters an acceptable solution

i am not trying to start yet another thread about the leaks authentic i just want to know if anyone can actually think of a scenario that's better then the one currently presented,

Making synthesis "inevitable" (thus making the ending choice ultimately irrelevant) in the far future, a prequel, or a midiquel set entirely before the ending of the Reaper war satisfy all those criteria except #7. And for good reason, because they are all horrible, horrible ideas.

Other than those, I can't really think of one. But, it is worth noting that you are imposing limitations that may or may not be true in reality. Not canonizing an ending is what Bioware has said they wanted, yes, like a dozen times already. It is what they will probably do. However, they have gone back on their word more times than I can count. I wouldn't be surprised if they just canonize Destroy and make a true sequel.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if the Andromeda leak is true. And if it is, the nerdrage on these forums would be hilarious. I think most fans would be fine with the choice. A few outspoken ones (you know who they are, their troll stench reeks in the Andromeda threads) wont be.

I dont really see anyone here posting that the story MUST be set in Andromeda or Mass Effect wont be Mass Effect. I see a select few loudmouths making the opposite claim. I think most people wouldn't mind.

[Vazgen]

Well, the only option I see that fits that criteria is homogenizing the endings. Set the game very far into the future, have no Reapers present and Synthesis glow worn off. Depending on an explanation, the points 3,4,5 can be addressed.
The thing is, does the move to another galaxy fit the same criteria? I can see there being troubles with points 3,4,5. I believe point 7 will not be true for any solution.

[L. Han]

I think people being upset is because they want to know why they decide to choose another galaxy. To try and make out this decision, people start drawing in the ending...

 

From that, anyone knows how it goes. Personally, I don't really understand why they are hopping on the next galaxy so quickly. The Milky Way IS MASSIVE. To 'discard' it for the sake of putting distance or a change in scenery is a bit too convenient.

 

But I believe BioWare knows what it's doing. Here's waiting for them to release more info.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There are several options that can address criteria 1-6. Criteria 7 will not be met no matter what they do. 

 

 

A few outspoken ones (you know who they are, their troll stench reeks in the Andromeda threads) wont be.

So anyone who doesn't like the leak and speaks against it is a troll now? 

[Kabooooom]

So anyone who doesn't like the leak and speaks against it is a troll now?

Did I say that? Go ahead and quote where I said that. I'll wait.



Oh. You can't? Because I didn't? Well, how about that.

You can speak out with your dislike for the leak without being obnoxious or trollish in your posts, obviously. One does not equate to the other, nor did I ever imply that it did. You simply read what you wanted into it.

[Mcfly616]

Prequels. Midquels. Individual stories taking place within the established timeline. Plenty of ways to keep it in the MEU we know and love. Making a sequel is harder. And imo, irrelevant.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Did I say that? Go ahead and quote where I said that. I'll wait.



Oh. You can't? Because I didn't? Well, how about that.

Hence me asking a question to clarify what you meant. Not every post has a hostile tone behind it, so relax.

[Mcfly616]

Personally, I'm not sure how anyone can view it as legit. Just reading it is comical. 

[camphor]

Making synthesis "inevitable" (thus making the ending choice ultimately irrelevant) in the far future, a prequel, or a midiquel set entirely before the ending of the Reaper war satisfy all those criteria except #7. And for good reason, because they are all horrible, horrible ideas.

Other than those, I can't really think of one. But, it is worth noting that you are imposing limitations that may or may not be true in reality. Not canonizing an ending is what Bioware has said they wanted, yes, like a dozen times already. It is what they will probably do. However, they have gone back on their word more times than I can count. I wouldn't be surprised if they just canonize Destroy and make a true sequel.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if the Andromeda leak is true. And if it is, the nerdrage on these forums would be hilarious. I think most fans would be fine with the choice. A few outspoken ones (you know who they are, their troll stench reeks in the Andromeda threads) wont be.

I dont really see anyone here posting that the story MUST be set in Andromeda or Mass Effect wont be Mass Effect. I see a select few loudmouths making the opposite claim. I think most people wouldn't mind.

 

 

actually ALL of my points are just arbitrary limitations that i have pulled from posts on these boards

more specifically the cant canonize an ending is the entire reason for the whole argument, if they were the solution would be much easier

 

I personally have loved every bioware game to date, and really whatever they decide i more then likely will have no problem with as long as i get to make dialog choices shoot things and watch some cut scenes i am happy. the way i think of it my time is worth 5 bucks for every hour of enjoyment i get out of something as long as i get 12 good hours out of a game it paid for itself and i gave DA2 over a hundred hours. But i also have the unique ability to enjoy things that arn't perfect and overlook minor problems

 

 

Edit: once again lets leave the leak weather true or false out of the conversation there are actually 6 or 7 other threads to talk about that.

This thread is primarily to talk about the supposed alternates because being completely truthful i believe the standards here and actually in gaming for what makes a good story are so impossibly high they can not be done. or atleast agreed upon by a majority, i want to see if someone can prove that hypothesis wrong, thus a challenge

[Kabooooom]

Personally, I'm not sure how anyone can view it as legit. Just reading it is comical.

Are you prepared for the possibility that it is legit? I am ambivalent towards it. I dont care if the setting is the Milky Way or Andromeda, personally.

[Kabooooom]

actually ALL of my points are just arbitrary limitations that i have pulled from posts on these boards

I personally have loved every bioware game to date, and really whatever they decide i more then likely will have no problem with as long as i get to make dialog choices shoot things and watch some cut scenes i am happy. the way i think of it my time is worth 5 bucks for every hour of enjoyment i get out of something as long as i get 12 good hours out of a game it paid for itself and i gave DA2 over a hundred hours. But i also have the unique ability to enjoy things that arn't perfect and overlook minor problems

I am in agreement with you as I feel the same.

[Mcfly616]

Are you prepared for the possibility that it is legit? I am ambivalent towards it. I dont care if the setting is the Milky Way or Andromeda, personally.

 Anything's possible. I just find the forum users wishlist for the next game to be unworthy of calling a leak. 

[Kabooooom]

Anything's possible. I just find the forum users wishlist for the next game to be unworthy of calling a leak.

The majority of the "leak" itself was disappointing to me.

Andromeda setting? Sure, I know Mass Effect =/= Milky Way. Why not.

Heavy emphasis on exploration? Hell yeah. I'm all for that. It's what made Mass Effect great from the start.

Vault raids, Remnants, colony building....please no. God I hope not.

Note: I'm not actually opposed to the concept of an ancient alien race per se. Somehow, if the setting is in Andromeda the Fermi paradox would have to be addressed as it was in the former trilogy via the cycles. I'd be surprised if there WASNT evidence of an ancient, advanced race...

...but what the leak described was so incredibly generic. Even the name: "Remnants". Come on.

[7twozero]

Hence me asking a question to clarify what you meant. Not every post has a hostile tone behind it, so relax.

 

Says the pot, desperately seeking a kettle to cast aspersions upon.

[CrazyCatDude]

Simple.  Keep everything the same, except have the "Helios Cluster" be a Globular Cluster orbiting outside of the Primary Disk of the Milky Way, but within the Halo.  It's connection to the rest of the Galaxy is through a Primary Relay that was inactive during the war, so the relay network within the Cluster was unaffected by the Crucible wave.  Because of the isolated nature of the Globular Cluster, the Reapers never got around to hitting it during the most recent cycle.  The Remnant were the last cycle's Helios Cluster equivalent of the Protheans.  Also, one of the secondary goals of Pathfinder is to check areas which are isolated by a shut down Primary Relay to make sure there are no Reaper holdouts that need to be dealt with.

 

Boom.  You're still in the Milky Way, but you have a reason for the relative isolation of the Helios cluster, much the same way you were largely limited to Terminus system locations and the Citadel for Mass Effect 2

[Kabooooom]

Simple. Keep everything the same, except have the "Helios Cluster" be a Globular Cluster orbiting outside of the Primary Disk of the Milky Way, but within the Halo. It's connection to the rest of the Galaxy is through a Primary Relay that was inactive during the war, so the relay network within the Cluster was unaffected by the Crucible wave. Because of the isolated nature of the Globular Cluster, the Reapers never got around to hitting it during the most recent cycle. The Remnant were the last cycle's Helios Cluster equivalent of the Protheans. Also, one of the secondary goals of Pathfinder is to check areas which are isolated by a shut down Primary Relay to make sure there are no Reaper holdouts that need to be dealt with.

Boom. You're still in the Milky Way, but you have a reason for the relative isolation of the Helios cluster, much the same way you were largely limited to Terminus system locations and the Citadel for Mass Effect 2

This idea can be expanded upon. Set it in the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy.

At 25,000 ly from Earth, it could potentially be reached via conventional tech of the galaxies' races (not even FTL, simply a cryo ship and a prolonged journey would do) OR perhaps via a dormant relay.

It has 1 billion stars.

Your idea was actually pretty good, and I think the concept is arguably way smarter than Andromeda.

[Torgette]

This idea can be expanded upon. Set it in the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy.

At 25,000 ly from Earth, it could potentially be reached via conventional tech of the galaxies' races (not even FTL, simply a cryo ship and a prolonged journey would do) OR perhaps via a dormant relay.

It has 1 billion stars.

Your idea was actually pretty good, and I think the concept is arguably way smarter than Andromeda.

 

Situation wise I thought about this today, but does your decision at the end even affect every system star system in the milky way? How many relays are there? The other thing I thought about is the Leviathan scenario, are they the only species to survive the cycles in hiding? If the reapers cycled the galaxy for 1 billion years as is often said here, there's a very good chance quite a few species have held out, perhaps in systems without relays. There's a chance these species come out of hiding, on top of a lot of the galaxy being in a completely different scenario than what was affected by the ending.

 

Plot wise it's hard to say, how do you deal with Shepard either ascending in 2 scenarios or dying/living in another, how do you even interpret that into something feasible? I guess you don't, and instead make a new protagonist and make the demigod Shepard/regular Shepard a peripheral character - maybe even an antagonist.

[camphor]

Simple.  Keep everything the same, except have the "Helios Cluster" be a Globular Cluster orbiting outside of the Primary Disk of the Milky Way, but within the Halo.  It's connection to the rest of the Galaxy is through a Primary Relay that was inactive during the war, so the relay network within the Cluster was unaffected by the Crucible wave.  Because of the isolated nature of the Globular Cluster, the Reapers never got around to hitting it during the most recent cycle.  The Remnant were the last cycle's Helios Cluster equivalent of the Protheans.  Also, one of the secondary goals of Pathfinder is to check areas which are isolated by a shut down Primary Relay to make sure there are no Reaper holdouts that need to be dealt with.

 

Boom.  You're still in the Milky Way, but you have a reason for the relative isolation of the Helios cluster, much the same way you were largely limited to Terminus system locations and the Citadel for Mass Effect 2

on the right track anyway but it doesn't address any of the endings which seem to be the main complaint.  the only difference between this and Andromeda is the distance away. that said probably the closest anyone has come to a second solution

[Kabooooom]

Situation wise I thought about this today, but does your decision at the end even affect every system star system in the milky way? How many relays are there? The other thing I thought about is the Leviathan scenario, are they the only species to survive the cycles in hiding? If the reapers cycled the galaxy for 1 billion years as is often said here, there's a very good chance quite a few species have held out, perhaps in systems without relays. There's a chance these species come out of hiding, on top of a lot of the galaxy being in a completely different scenario than what was affected by the ending.

Plot wise it's hard to say, how do you deal with Shepard either ascending in 2 scenarios or dying/living in another, how do you even interpret that into something feasible? I guess you don't, and instead make a new protagonist and make the demigod Shepard/regular Shepard a peripheral character - maybe even an antagonist.

I do think the endings affected the entire galaxy, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a "solution" to Starchilds problem. The energy of the Crucible is observed to spread off of the network.

I also believe more than just the Leviathans made it. It would actually be extremely easy to evade the Reapers. The relay network does not cover the entire galaxy, contrary to popular belief. It covers a fraction of it. This can be known from the distances between primary relays (averaging several thousand light years) and it is also described elsewhere in the lore as well. There are vast swaths of interstellar space that do not fall near a relay. This fact is often overlooked by people because for gameplay purposes, it appears otherwise.

Fly off the network, move constantly in a Migrant Fleet situation and never stop for hundreds of years. The Reapers probably comb the galaxy for any survivors, probe space off the network for planets that could give rise to life, and maybe even set up new relays in those systems prior to returning to dark space after a cycle is over. All you have to do is keep moving, never get caught, and wait it out. Space is a very big place.

[dreamgazer]

At least it ain't a prequel.

Folks will come around if Andromeda's legit. BioWare's got a lot of hurdles to cross on an uphill journey, though.

[Torgette]

I do think the endings affected the entire galaxy, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a "solution" to Starchilds problem. The energy of the Crucible is observed to spread off of the network.

I also believe more than just the Leviathans made it. It would actually be extremely easy to evade the Reapers. The relay network does not cover the entire galaxy, contrary to popular belief. It covers a fraction of it. This can be known from the distances between primary relays (averaging several thousand light years) and it is also described elsewhere in the lore as well. There are vast swaths of interstellar space that do not fall near a relay. This fact is often overlooked by people because for gameplay purposes, it appears otherwise.

Fly off the network, move constantly in a Migrant Fleet situation and never stop for hundreds of years. The Reapers probably comb the galaxy for any survivors, probe space off the network for planets that could give rise to life, and maybe even set up new relays in those systems prior to returning to dark space after a cycle is over. All you have to do is keep moving, never get caught, and wait it out. Space is a very big place.

 

To me the Catalyst is something of a programmed mistake - its entire existence non-valid, so I see it as natural to question the validity of any of its claims. The simplest solution I guess is to just accept that everything happens with 100% guarantee, for the sake of the making things black and white.