19 réponses à ce sujet

[thetinyevil]

The options regarding the mage/templar dynamic of the game really bothered me. It seemed to me that the devs were trying to push he plays toward choosing the templars as the good and right choice. While the mages were the bad and wrong choice.

 

Of all the mages we talk to only three support separating from the Chantry and one of them is a complete psychopath. As well ask making the mages seem like complete idiots while making the templar out to be poor victims.

 

Like the dialog options for mages was like "yay. mage freedom"

 

While options for templars was like "YAY! TEMPLARS!!!!" CUE Pyrotechnics behind Inquisitor.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else seen this or if it was just how I perceived it?

[Excella Gionne]

"The people trust the templars, and now they trust us." 

 

Leliana explains it pretty well in just a sentence. People fear mages due to social stigma and what they can do, and so, it is much easier to support the templars. I think they did pretty well in making the player feel the way the wind is blowing. If you choose to go to the mages, conscripting them would earn you slightly more approval if you brought Varric with you and Hawke supported the Templars in DAII.

[SgtSteel91]

The Inquisition is still heavily connected to the Chantry, even if the Chantry denounces them, and many of the people within it are devout Andrastians who favor the Templars and the Cirlce, with exceptions like Leliana and that one Chantry sister in Haven. And a lot of Southern Thedas also follows the Chanty's teaching, they favor the Templars and fear Mages. So it's only natural that most people are going to be cheering you on if you ally with the Templars but start questioning you or be angry at you for allying with the Mages. That people, in the game, favor one choice may make it more 'right.'

 

I guess they still want to make the Templars/Mages issue 'grey' with both sides having sinners and saints and 'both sides are the same in being right and wrong.' As for me, there are the oppressors (Templars/Chantry) and the oppressed (Mages), nothing grey about it.

[thetinyevil]

Glad to know it wasn't just in my head then.

[nightscrawl]

I don't view the choice presented in DAI in terms of morality, but rather in terms of urgency. To me, if you go to Redcliffe, see the weird goings on, talk with Fiona, Alexius, and Felix and Dorian, it's hard to ignore that this is a problem that needs immediate attention, whereas the Templars are just sitting in Therinfal Redoubt waiting for you to make overtures to them.

 

The only way I can justify picking the templars for roleplay aspects is to have my character think: "So this weird/insane stuff is going on with the mages. What do you need against mages doing weird/insane stuff? Templars. Let's go get them and then fix Redcliffe." Obviously, there is the gameplay element of "you can only pick one," but that's not a story element, so I certainly feel justified in allowing my character to think that they might be able to deal with both issues, even if they only join forces with one side.

[SgtSteel91]

I don't view the choice presented in DAI in terms of morality, but rather in terms of urgency. To me, if you go to Redcliffe, see the weird goings on, talk with Fiona, Alexius, and Felix and Dorian, it's hard to ignore that this is a problem that needs immediate attention, whereas the Templars are just sitting in Therinfal Redoubt waiting for you to make overtures to them.

 

The only way I can justify picking the templars for roleplay aspects is to have my character think: "So this weird/insane stuff is going on with the mages. What do you need against mages doing weird/insane stuff? Templars. Let's go get them and then fix Redcliffe." Obviously, there is the gameplay element of "you can only pick one," but that's not a story element, so I certainly feel justified in allowing my character to think that they might be able to deal with both issues, even if they only join forces with one side.

 

I justify, in a 'story' sense, going for the Templars by not even going to Redcliff. Just take Cassandra's word that something is fishy with the Templars and investigate them first, leaving Fiona's invitation on the back-burner until the Templars are dealt with. Out of sight, out of mind with regards to Time Magic stuff going on in Redcliff.

 

I have a problem with going to the Templars after Redcliff, with the reasoning of using Templars to sort out the mess, cause then I think, "well the Inquisition is going to get a lot of attention when they go to recruit the Templars, it can tip off Alexius who may make saving the Mages impossible (or even use Time Magic to undo any alliance with the Templars). He has to be stopped now."

[Panda]

Eh, I didn't feel like this at all. Fiona approached you, well or someone in place of her idk it was weird, with cooperation in mind when Lord Seeker Lucius just pushed you away the moment you tried to talk with him. I think it was pretty much opposite, mages were portrayed as right choice, they are these poor lot that is taken refuge and who is attacked by bad templars and did wrong choice, because of it. Templars leader himself was evil and tried to get all templars in his evil side.

[draken-heart]

Eh, I can see more of a RP answer here. Even a mage can side with the Templars with the RP of "The Templars can suppress magic, so maybe going Templars can help out more than the mages" especially with the weird time magic-y stuff going on.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because templars are better as at least they don't blow up world ,what makes them automatically better than mages.

 

I prefer call it stupid and smart choice instead right and wrong in moral terms ,like send firefighter not arsonist to deal with fire.

[boxesman#]

Champions of the Just is triggered automatically after viewing the first major cut scene in Val Royeaux. You can head back to Haven at your leisure to continue it. It's likely you will continue this quest in-line with The Threat Remains and In Hushed Whispers.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Don't let this forum give you the wrong idea, the majority of people still sided with the mages:

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/3269053

 

 

Also, people who say go with the Templars to help you out with Redcliffe obviously never chose the "lets get the Templars" option during the mage mission briefing. If you choose that, the Inquisitor outright says they should get the Templars to help out at Redcliffe yet your advisors say that won't work since the Venatori are preparing to attack something and by the time you're finished with the templars, they will be long gone so your choice is save the mages or go to the Templar and abandon the mages to their fate while the Venatori are plotting an attack. That makes the going to the templars look even less sensible.

[Reznore57]

Well you meet the templars in Val Royeaux , and they follow a guy who punched an old woman , basically said he only came to brag , and don't care about the Breach, too busy to do the Maker's work and hunt apostates.

The introduction of the mages is better , it just gets downhill fast once you get in Redcliffe.

Basically the templars and mages are a bunch of sheep .

[dragonflight288]

I don't view the choice presented in DAI in terms of morality, but rather in terms of urgency. To me, if you go to Redcliffe, see the weird goings on, talk with Fiona, Alexius, and Felix and Dorian, it's hard to ignore that this is a problem that needs immediate attention, whereas the Templars are just sitting in Therinfal Redoubt waiting for you to make overtures to them.

 

The only way I can justify picking the templars for roleplay aspects is to have my character think: "So this weird/insane stuff is going on with the mages. What do you need against mages doing weird/insane stuff? Templars. Let's go get them and then fix Redcliffe." Obviously, there is the gameplay element of "you can only pick one," but that's not a story element, so I certainly feel justified in allowing my character to think that they might be able to deal with both issues, even if they only join forces with one side.

 

You can also roleplay agreeing with Cullen about how to empower the mark or weaken the breach.

 

Cassandra and Leliana are for gathering the support of the mages so they can enhance the power of the Anchor, but Cullen wants to be more cautious because he doesn't think adding a great deal of power to the anchor is wise since at the time no one understands what it does. Instead he wants to gather enough templars to use their abilities on the breach itself, weaken it enough so that the anchor, unimpowered is still strong enough to close the breach. 

 

You can roleplay an Inquisitor who doesn't want to risk blowing up their hand.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

You can also roleplay agreeing with Cullen about how to empower the mark or weaken the breach.

Cassandra and Leliana are for gathering the support of the mages so they can enhance the power of the Anchor, but Cullen wants to be more cautious because he doesn't think adding a great deal of power to the anchor is wise since at the time no one understands what it does. Instead he wants to gather enough templars to use their abilities on the breach itself, weaken it enough so that the anchor, unimpowered is still strong enough to close the breach.

You can roleplay an Inquisitor who doesn't want to risk blowing up their hand.

It's also possible to role play someone who thinks Templar powers could also affect the mark.

[dragonflight288]

It's also possible to role play someone who thinks Templar powers could also affect the mark.

 

True.

 

A human mage could have any number of experiences in the Circle, based on how we answer questions from Vivienne and Josephine, while a qunari mage probably couldn't care less about the templars, or has extremely limited experience with them, while an elven mage probably wouldn't trust them.

[draken-heart]

I wonder if Ameridan were awake and running things, what he would choose...

[thesuperdarkone2]

I wonder if Ameridan were awake and running things, what he would choose...

I think he would side with the mages considering how he disapproves of how the Seekers and Templars ran things, plus his arguments where he disapproves of the proto-templar. Plus, I bet he'd think time magic would be a bigger priority.

[dragonflight288]

I think he would side with the mages considering how he disapproves of how the Seekers and Templars ran things, plus his arguments where he disapproves of the proto-templar. Plus, I bet he'd think time magic would be a bigger priority.

 

I agree.

 

He was best friends with Drakon, but he seems to represent, point-of-view-wise, the principles the system was founded on and not what it became. 

[KaiserShep]

I justify, in a 'story' sense, going for the Templars by not even going to Redcliff. Just take Cassandra's word that something is fishy with the Templars and investigate them first, leaving Fiona's invitation on the back-burner until the Templars are dealt with. Out of sight, out of mind with regards to Time Magic stuff going on in Redcliff.

 

I have a problem with going to the Templars after Redcliff, with the reasoning of using Templars to sort out the mess, cause then I think, "well the Inquisition is going to get a lot of attention when they go to recruit the Templars, it can tip off Alexius who may make saving the Mages impossible (or even use Time Magic to undo any alliance with the Templars). He has to be stopped now."

 

Yeah, it just doesn't work for me to go to Therinfall Redoubt unless I totally skip on going to Redcliffe altogether, but at the same time, I have a hard time giving the Templars any serious consideration just because Cassandra says that not all of the Templars may be in support Lord Demon Lucius, even with Barris' halfhearted attempt to cool down potatoface's demonic pomp. I don't really care to bank on the possible dissent of a sufficient number of lackeys, not when the leader of the other faction makes an open invitation.

 

I think it gets even worse if the PC is a mage, as it's very easy to RP a character that has little interest in risking approaching a stronghold full of anti-magic soldiers that may just regard you as an apostate and refuse aid at best, and consider you an enemy combatant at worse. After the little display in Val Royeaux, I can't say that I'd put anything past them at that point.

[Gileadan]

It was going to the Hinterlands and Redcliffe that made me turn around and head for Therinfal - other than wanting demon killers instead of demon bait, of course.

The moment I heard about that cool deal they made with the Venatori - something some of them knew was a bad idea, but instead of taking a stand, all I got was mumbling and shuffling of feet - I knew that those people weren't the allies I was looking for. The templars were much more active in fighting their problem - the uncorrupted ones took up arms against the red lyrium fellas.

Mages allied with Tevinter of all places didn't seem like a smart choice to me. When you want to dry out a swamp, you don't ask the frogs for help.