191 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyCatDude]

I'm curious as to what people would like to see in terms of class design for the next Mass Effect Game.

 

Me, personally, I'd like to see a system where you can pick one of the classes, and get the "signature" power for that class, their two passive powers, and access to to power trees based on which class they took, and can pick any powers they want from the trees they have access too.

 

For example:

 

Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush

Combat Power Tree

 

Vanguard:

Charge

Combat and Biotic Power Trees

 

Adept:

Singularity

Biotic Power Tree

 

Sentinel:

Tech Armor

Biotic and Tech Power Tree

 

Engineer:

Combat Drone

Tech Power Tree

 

Infiltrator:

Tactical Cloak

Tech and Combat Power Tree

 

Ammo goes back too being a weapons mod and doesn't fill up a power slot.

 

The power trees contain all the powers from single player and multiplayer ME3, plus any cool new toys they want to give us.

 

I think this would open up a world of possible play styles.  I will admit though, there are some combos that could be insanely broken.  Shadow Strike on a Sentinel is the one that comes to mind, right off the top of my head.

 

Thoughts?

[Steppenwolf]

I think there should be 3 or 4 preset powers for each class, then a pool of 3 or 4 class-specific powers you can choose from to add a few, then a pool of a dozen or so powers that every class gets to choose from to add a few, giving you a total of 8 or 9 powers for the not-Shepard. The powers should level up like they did in ME3 and fitness and class trees should return as well. It would add a lot of customization and retain the uniqueness of each class.

[ImaginaryMatter]

My idea would be to revamp the system entirely. Instead of making the classes slightly different flavors of killing dudes each class would fill an entirely unique roll in a squad. For example, 'tech' abilities would remove shooting the elements out of omnitools and focus more on things like hacking, repairing technology, sabotaging electronics, bypassing security systems, etc. The game design would also experience a massive overhaul going for more of a DE/TF2 vibe with squadmates versus a conventional cover based TPS. Levels would be massively different and involve multiple approaches to approach different goals.

 

Just to give a sense of how different feeling everything class would be, every class would have a very different number of abilities they have access to. Soldiers would have almost next to none for example, instead relying on weapons for diversity. Sentinels would have the most, containing a large portion of tech and biotic abilities (lets say 2/3 of each). If the Engineer and Adept have 10 abilities each the Sentinel would have like 16 abilities.

 

Engineers would be the purest in this regard, as they would know almost every tech trick in the book. The combat drone would do less combat and be more of an automated extension of the player, capable of doing some of the engineer stuff remotely.

 

Soldier would be the most basic class. They would be meatheads who could carry every gun, the most grenades, the heaviest armor, and the most martial prowess.

 

Adepts would by far be the most competent class with biotics, having bonuses that make them much better at using those abilities than the hybrids. Biotic abilities would drop the combo thing (actually everything drops the combo thing). Biotic abilities would go back to manipulating mass and gravity. These guys actually would be different flavors of killing dudes but rely more on creativity by manipulating physics (launching people off cliffs, sending them into space on low gravity planets, singularity shenanigans). They would also get some gimmicky stuff like biotic jumping.

 

Infiltrators would still be the tech/combat hybrid. But instead of focusing their abilities as a mix of the two with an invisibility cloak their abilities would focus mostly on doing things solo without the benefit of a squad, actual infiltrating. Tech abilities would focus more on the stealthy, sabotaging aspects while their combat traits would focus on discretion.

 

Vanguards would be the other side of the coin. While Infiltrator has the abilities used for stealth, Vanguard have the abilities used for making as much noise as possible. If there was a tank it would be these guys.

 

Sentinels would be the most hybrid class in feeling and probably have the greatest leeway in ability selection. Instead of getting getting half the tech abilities and half the biotic abilities they would have the diversity to use most of the abilities in those pools, just without the adeptness.

[Guanxii]

Came to a realization a while ago about what BioWare should probably do with the classes, imo: Every power in the game of each type (tech, biotic or combat) should belong to a specific slot:

 

-Primary

-Secondary (primer)

-Tertiary (detonator)

-Crowd control (4th)

-Direct damage (5th)

-Utility / Class bonus slot (6th)

-Class passive

-Fitness

-Bonus power slot (7th)

 

As before each class would have six power slots (of the appropriate type) and a bonus power slot and you start out with the default powers in each slot. As you progress and unlock new powers for each of these slots you can swap them out in your equivalent of the med bay. This system is ideal for newcomers and veterans alike because it provides structured customization which will intuitively hold the hand of new players by making it impossible to chose broken/illogical combinations without synergy and it would provide balance approved customization for pros.

 

The class bonus or utility slot would let you choose any power available to your class but should be dependant on the difficulty level, e.g. only on Veteran or above can you choose another secondary power, while Insanity difficulty would permit you to pick a second primary power.

 

See some fairly rough examples below. It's worth noting that just about every single multiplayer class (except the Huntress) from ME3 can be recreated, so it is a very flexible system. If you can't make your desired build with a system like this it's probably for good reason i.e. OP/unbalanced.

[Guanxii]

Example: Adept
 
Primary: Singularity, Annihilation Field, Dark Sphere, Biotic Sphere
Secondary: Warp, Reave, Dark Channel
Tertiary: Throw, Shockwave, Slam, Lash, Biotic Orbs
4th: Pull, Stasis, *Lash, **Lifting Shockwave
5th: Cluster Grenades, Lift Grenade, Smash, Flare, Biotic Slash
6th: Barrier, Biotic Focus, All of the above
7th: Bonus powers (General - e.g. Energy Drain)
 
*No duplicates permitted, but also available to slot.
**Mandatory evolution in this slot
 
Sentinel
 
Primary: Tech Armor, Defense Matrix, Barrier, Annihilation Field
Secondary: Overload, Incinerate, Warp, Dark Channel
Tertiary: Throw, Shockwave, Lash, Biotic Orbs, Slam
4th: Cryo Blast, Submission Net, Stasis, *Lash
5th: Lift Grenade, Cluster Grenades, Flare, Arc Grenade, Flamer
6th: Energy Drain, Snap Freeze, Blade Armor, All of the above
 
Vanguard
 
Primary: Biotic Charge, Poison Strike, Havoc Strike, AF
Secondary: ***Warp Ammo, Incendiary Ammo, Cryo Ammo, Disruptor Ammo
Tertiary: Nova, Shockwave, Lash, Biotic Orbs, Biotic Slash
4th: Pull, Stasis, *Lash, **Lifting Shockwave
5th: Lift Grenade, Cluster Grenades, Smash, Phase Disruptor, Nightshade Blades
6th: Barrier, Biotic Focus, All of the above
 
***A new source of minor Biotic Explosions (dependant on evolutions)

Soldier

Primary: Adrenaline Rush, Marksman, Devastator Mode, Havoc Strike
Secondary: Incendiary Ammo, Cryo Ammo, Disruptor Ammo
Tertiary: Concussive Shot, Carnage, Ballistic Blades, Proximity Mine
4th: *^4 Frag Grenade, Inferno Grenade, Arc Grenade
5th: Flamer, Hawk Missile Launcher, Homing Grenade
6th: Fortification, Blade Armor, Stimpacks, All of the above

*^4 Upgradable to multi-frag grenades

Engineer

Primary: Combat Drone, Cerberus Turret, Defense Drone, TBA
Secondary: Overload, Incinerate, Sabotage, ED, TBA
Tertiary: *Incinerate, *Overload, *Energy Drain, *TBA
4th: Cryo Blast, Sentry Turret, Decoy, Submission Net
5th: Cain Trip Mine, Recon Mine, Arc Grenade, Homing Grenade, Flamer
6th: Defense Matrix, Tactical Scan, Suppy Pylon, Snap Freeze, All of the above

Infiltrator

Primary: Tactical Cloak, Defense Matrix, Hunter Mode
Secondary: Energy Drain, Phasic Ammo, AP Ammo, Sabotage
Tertiary: Proximity Mine, Carnage, Electric Slash, TBA
4th: Decoy, Submission Net, Cryo Blast, TBA
5th: Sticky Grenade, Arc Grenade, Homing Grenade, Shadow Strike, Recon Mine
6th: Tactical Scan, Stimpacks, All of the above

[KrrKs]

From this thread

 

[...]

My idea would be to allow the player to choose from the six classes: Soldier, Engineer, Adept, Infiltrator, Vanguard, and Sentinel.

 

Each class would be given a unique power, plus pre-set class passive. If you kept the current unique power setup, then:

 - Soldier would get Adrenaline Rush and Combat Mastery

 - Engineer would get Combat Drone and Tech Mastery

 - Adept would get Singularity and Biotic Mastery

 - Infiltrator would get Tactical Cloak and Operative Mastery

 - Vanguard would get Biotic Charge and Assault Mastery

 - Sentinel would get Tech Armor and Power Mastery

 

Then based on the class the player chose, you can the select 2 or 4 powers from a list (2 if want ME3 MP size, or 4 if you want ME2 size):

 - Soldier can choose 2/4 combat powers

 - Adept can choose 2/4 biotic powers

 - Engineer can choose 2/4 tech powers

 - Vanguard can choose 1/2 combat powers and 1/2 biotic powers

 - Infiltrator can choose 1/2 combat powers and 1/2 tech powers

 - Sentinel can choose 1/2 tech powers and 1/2 biotic powers

 

And if you want to keep the bonus power system, then each class can then select (if any are unlocked) any available bonus power from a list.

 

Theoretically, at least in my head, this should allow more flexibility among the classes while still retaining some uniqueness. 

 

 

There are some bad aspects to having a custom class system though:

1. It may overwhelm new players at first as they may be confused and struggle when trying to choose their initial power sets. Providing the player with too many options before they even begin to play may anger them them or turn them off your game, causing them to quit even before they begin to play.

 

2. You are also essentially locking players into their initial power set choices without a respec, unless you provide/allow a respec option that allows them to re-select their power sets. If you lock players into a power set they initially thought would be fun/good but later find out they do not like, will cause them to quit, possibly permanently if they spent hours playing something they hated.

 

3. As some others have pointed out allowing custom-built classes makes it harder to balance all the powers. (Note, I think this is even harder if you keep the ME3 power combo system as it still tends to favor hybrid classes in a lot of circumstances, unless you restrict all classes to 3 powers instead of 5 in my proposal).

 

 

One possible solution to the above problem is to provide preset builds. for example, you can choose Soldier, then either pick a custom Soldier class, or choose the preset Soldier class.

[Kynare]

I would love it if you could perform cinematic combo attacks with your crew mates that differ depending on their classes. Also have more class-specific dialogue and/or interrupts like the Engineer had in the Omega DLC.

 

The addition of the omni-blade in ME3 was pretty cool too, in my opinion. I'd like to see them expand on it and add more melee attacks.

Not quite sure if that's what you meant though

[Golden_Persona]

I pretty much agree with everything said here. I always wished that Vanguard had both pull and throw (because I love that combo in ME2. Enemies rocketing off the screen is hilarious).

 

I just want a melee-based class. One that uses an even more upgraded version of ME3's melee, and was equipped with a shield similar to the Shadowbroker's. I guess call it Omni-warrior. Give every class access to an omni-power, to avoid feeling the need to make hybrid classes which would just flood the game with too many classes, and let Omni-warrior have his unique abilities and the choice to choose the other omni powers from a pool. I guess his main weakness would be if you have a gun un-holstered you can't use it's shield or upgraded melee attacks, and when you melee you automatically holster your gun.

 

It would have its own form of shield boost, fortification and barrier, similar to how the Shadowbroker had a shield that covered it's body.  It would have the best damage resistance, or you could detonate it to increase melee damage for a short time. I have no idea what its class power would be. Maybe omni-rampage which slows down time for a few seconds after a melee attack and drastically increases damage. Time dilation stacks for every melee attack too, the downside being taking more damage and a longer cooldown time for every second that becomes dilated. Also your character wouldn't slow down with the dilation like adrenaline rush does.

 

I think enemies should have access to the classes as well, like how they did to an extent in ME2. Imagine having to fight vanguard enemies who could charge you,and omni-warriors that try to flank you, rather than having every enemy play hide and seek. Similar to the Citadel boss fight, but obviously the mook versions.

[Torgette]

It'd be nice if Infiltrators had a real ability to tackle combat without alerting anybody.

[themikefest]

I like the classes. I would add a few things

 

For engineer, instead of having a combat drone, why not have a mini-me turret like the Cerberus engineers in ME3. Can't have both. When spending points in one, it will lock out the other. 

 

For soldier, instead of having the omni blade, have an omni bow. Instead of grenades, be able to have claymores. Those are very nasty

 

For biotic, add a power that the player can create a barrier around a squadmate protecting them from whatever for a brief moment 

[Tonymac]

It'd be nice if Infiltrators had a real ability to tackle combat without alerting anybody.

Well, we do tend to notice things like when the guy sitting next to you decides to light a cigarette and his head explodes.   That's just how the game operates too.  "Oh crap, they got Junebug!  Get them!"  Another point of merit would be that guns sound MUCH louder when they are being fired at you - much much louder than the person shooting it hears.

 

Still, I get you - it would be cool to be able to do covert ops-like missions with the infiltrator.  Sort of like a Predator with an omni-blade.

[Sanunes]

My concern with any system that we have a lot of control over what skills we have access too is that all skills will feel even more then same so they might be interchangable style wise, but there is no difference in how the skills work.

 

If I had to give a suggestions I would suggest a rank zero evolution, so you pick one of two skills for that skill slot so we skill have the opportunity to have more variations, but BioWare still can give us skills that aren't over analyzed to boredom.

[Torgette]

Well, we do tend to notice things like when the guy sitting next to you decides to light a cigarette and his head explodes.   That's just how the game operates too.  "Oh crap, they got Junebug!  Get them!"  Another point of merit would be that guns sound MUCH louder when they are being fired at you - much much louder than the person shooting it hears.

 

Still, I get you - it would be cool to be able to do covert ops-like missions with the infiltrator.  Sort of like a Predator with an omni-blade.

 

They could do a Far Cry 4 where the infiltrator can do a chained take down using the omniblade, and if every enemy within sight is taken down then the next group of enemies aren't running in guns blazing just yet.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

I hate to sound overly simplistic and hateful and trollish and other generally over-simplistic and negative attribute, but so long as I get to play a Vanguard, biotic charge and nova spam my way through the battlefield, whilst serving a hot, steaming platter of SPACE! shotgun straight into the face of anyone who disagrees, I will be a happy, happy, happy person.

 

yes, I am one of THOSE people.

 

Sorry, I have nothing constructive to say, I just EFFING love the Vanguard, in ME3 especially. Seriously - step aside, Sovereign, you little punk, for *I* AM THE VANGUARD OF YOUR DESTRUCTION MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

aherm.

[Tonymac]

Was I able to play ME3 more than once, I would have gotten around to playing my vanguard.  Alas, I had to retire my Shepards and save them from Marauder Shields and those abysmal and pathetic endings.  

 

Its a shame - I had over 40 full runthroughs ready to rock. 

[CrutchCricket]

I don't care about power layouts or any of that nitty gritty stuff. I only care about one thing: Infiltrators should infiltrate. Stealth-based gameplay baby! None of this "activate cloak behind a wall and the mooks know you're there somehow".

 

Don't know how much call there'll be for inflitration in an exploration type setting. But that brings up another good possibility: class based specific mission paths. Basically take the engineer only interrupt from Omega and crank it to eleven. Say you need to get into a base to shut down a reactor or whatever. There would be different paths to it based on your class. The soldier would go in the front guns blazing, the infiltrator would sneak into the back, the biotic would do some biotic related things. and the engineer would go in some third way that involves hacking enemy defenses (or maybe he doesn't go in himself but relies or remote control drones and other gadgets to get the job done). The only thing would be figuring out the hybrid classes. It's not a perfect breakdown by any means but differentiating how you accomplish your task based on your specializations would make said specializations more meaningful. At the end of the day Shepard was still a grunt in combat that just happened to also have tech or biotics.

 

Or, since you're supposed to have all roles covered by your squad on the team maybe you make them playable and deploy them to specific paths based on class. But then it'll be more of a squad RTS than what we're used to. Could still work though. Would also solve the delegation problem.

[CrutchCricket]

Sure. I'm not attached to a rigid class system. Have classes be more fluidly designed, based on what powers you choose, which is itself based on the way you want to play the game.

[Patchwork]

I like the idea of niche squadmates, that they're on the team because they specialise in a certain combat style and while you can take whoever you want you'll get more out of it if you take your stealthy teammates on a infiltration mission or your tanks and dpsers on kill'em all one. 

 

The MEMP classes were a lot of fun to play so I wouldn't mind if some of their class powers made it into the main game. 

[Nitrocuban]

- I'd like to see a Medic class for support, healing and enemy weakening and not just plane shooty-shooty

- class system is fine as is but offer more kits per class in SP just like it is in MP (choose Infiltrator > choose biotic/tech/melee style kit)

- As reward after finishing New Game +give the player the option to make a custom kit with all powers from SP and MP available, class power and pointsytem to avoid grossly OP kits. New difficulty above Insanity to challenge custom kits

- custom kits for MP as reward for finishing all the challenges as well, no money for matches with custom char to avoid abuse of OP kits for farming

[Ahriman]

Vanguard's one of my favorites as well, but one thing that always disappointed me is the story isn't reactive enough to your class. They haven't done a good job at that (although there was more of this in ME3 finally). So if I want any improvement, it's not really gameplay, but the writing.

Yeah, since all classes could be aligned to three archetypes weapon(soldier, sentinel)/tech(engineer, infiltrator)/biotic(adept, vanguard), I wish they'll be reflected somehow outside combat. DA:I did some progress in this direction, so why not?

 

I also hope they replace tech's glowing something with an actual drone, which for example could create shieldwall for sentinel or be nice hack assistant to engineer. Not saying that it would be a perfect listener when your whole team is busy calibrating.

[Han Shot First]

I'd like to see heavy weapons return.

 

Maybe they should be a soldier exclusive. That class needs something to make it worth choosing over some of the others.

[Xerxes52]

I'd like to see heavy weapons return.

 

Maybe they should be a soldier exclusive. That class needs something to make it worth choosing over some of the others.

 

I like this idea.

 

Also for Soldiers: Air Burst Grenade. When thrown, it will draw a line of sight on up to two enemies (upgradeable to four). Once it does that, it fires a cloud of flechettes at each enemy it has a clear LOS on. Good at taking out enemies behind cover or inside buildings. If there are fewer enemies than the maximum, it will concentrate the flechettes at those targets.

[CrazyCatDude]

I hate to sound overly simplistic and hateful and trollish and other generally over-simplistic and negative attribute, but so long as I get to play a Vanguard, biotic charge and nova spam my way through the battlefield, whilst serving a hot, steaming platter of SPACE! shotgun straight into the face of anyone who disagrees, I will be a happy, happy, happy person.

 

yes, I am one of THOSE people.

 

Sorry, I have nothing constructive to say, I just EFFING love the Vanguard, in ME3 especially. Seriously - step aside, Sovereign, you little punk, for *I* AM THE VANGUARD OF YOUR DESTRUCTION MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

aherm.

 

I play Vanguard myself.  I LOVE myself some Vanguard.  I charge the Geth Colossus on Halestrom on insanity.  Why?  Because I can, that's why.

 

That being said, one thing I missed about ME 2 while playing ME3 is enemies that you couldn't charge.  In ME2, I ran with the Eviscerator, which was only slightly less devastating on a shot for shot basis than the Claymore, then I took Sniper Training on the Collector ship.  An Eviscerator, Locust, Viper, Phalanx load out made Vanguard insanely fun.  If I couldn't charge something, I still had amazing tactical flexibility.  Head shotting a Vorcha across a rocky chasm, stripping the shields and armor off a target with the Locust so I could kill them with a pull.  Disassembling mechs with the Phalanx.  All of those were terrible loads of fun.

 

I love Vanguard's charge/nova combo in ME3, but I did feel like the class lost a little variety compared to ME2, while I was an implacable god of death in many forms.

 

I'd love to bring back some of that variety.