99 réponses à ce sujet

[AppalachianApex]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but this is a great article that really nails why the very limited clothing customization options in Dragon Age Inquisition is a big deal to players:

 

http://www.themarysu...xelthreads-dai/

[SACanuckin Oz]

Couldn't have said it better, and can't agree more.

Unfortunately signs of a very very lazy design team

[AppalachianApex]

Couldn't have said it better, and can't agree more.

Unfortunately signs of a very very lazy design team

 

I wouldn't say that. Quite the opposite in fact. In many, many aspects of Inquisition the effort, time, and devotion the team put into making it really shines through.

Unfortunately, this isn't one of those areas.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Neither is hair.... should I continue?

[cephasjames]

Couldn't have said it better, and can't agree more.

Unfortunately signs of a very very lazy design team

When you combine both PC and Companions, DAI had more variety in clothing/armor than both DAO and DA2 combined. I don't think I'd consider that lazy at all, let alone very, very lazy. 

 

BioWare can't win. For Origins people created all these cool mods of unique armors because people didn't like the ones shipped with the game because they were too bland and everybody wore the same thing. For DA2 BioWare followed that que and created unique armors but then people complained that we couldn't change their armor. So for DAI BioWare tried to split the middle and created unique armors that could be changed and now people are upset about those. BioWare can't win.

[SACanuckin Oz]

I suppose that's down to individual perspective. Bioware obviously had/have their priorities. Armour variation in DAI was/is not one of them.

Sure, the 'world' does have many interesting armours, but when my character, and the companions for that matter. are locked into one style (with maybe 4 minor variations), and this is even accross the different classes, I (me) consider that lazy.

 

I should be able to loot a Venatori mage, and take their robes, if I like the look. I should be able to wear traditional style robes, if I choose to. I should be able to wear medium & heavy armour, regardless of my class. I should be able to put dwarven armour on my warriors (I mean, the game 'gives' me a smith, so why can't this smith, smith...)

 

So, in my opinion, if Bioware actually cared about our (gamers who enjoy Bioware games), they would have taken the time to look at the modding websites (only really need to look at the Nexus website), and by doing that they would have gathered very valuable information about our liking armour variety in their games. It does not take that long to do this website review, and it's instantly obvious that armour/clothing modes are a massive percentage of the total number of mods (accross all games this holds true).

 

Not doing this, or deciding to ignore this, is lazy, imo.

Bioware could win, if they cared about what we like in games. They don't, hence the vast number of complaints here (contrast the types of comments and feedback here with the Bethesda forums, there is a stark difference in tone)

[Dai Grepher]

It's strange. On my first playthrough as my canon character, I was a male human mage, and all the clothing options seemed to fit, except the pajamas of course. But the mage clothing was all really good in my opinion. I was also okay with the ball uniform, though not for the other companions. Vivienne and Blackwall should have been in their proper over the top ball outfit and Grey Warden armor.

 

Then on my "Hero of Ferelden" playthrough as a warrior, I noticed that a lot of the warrior armors sucked. It looks like tinfoil, or a space blanket (for those who get that reference).

 

Now on my solo rogue playthrough I notice that he had much of the same armor as the mage, only with slight tweaks.

 

So yeah, the clothing could have used a lot more work.

 

I'm also one of those who dressed their Inquisitor in the appropriate clothing. When fleeing Haven, I had my character put on the mage's cowl and enhanced cold resistance belt (even though it doesn't do anything for you gameplay-wise while walking through the frozen wilderness). Then after that the game showed the mage's outfit to be worn out. So it was time for a new one. When exploring the oasis I had him wear the Orleasian Battlemage Armor since it looked lightweight. Also a elven cowl because it looked like a turban. Everyone else had similar "cool" looking clothing for the desert. This applied in the Western Approach as well. In Emprise Du Lion my Inquisitor had the long sleeve arms upgrade and the scarf.

 

I even did this in Origins. When my male Cousland got back from the alienage and prepared for the Landsmeet, he met with the nobles wearing noble clothing. Same with Anora when he had his meeting with her.

 

So I agree that looking the part is an important element in role-playing games.

[Saphiron123]

I wouldn't say that. Quite the opposite in fact. In many, many aspects of Inquisition the effort, time, and devotion the team put into making it really shines through.

Unfortunately, this isn't one of those areas.

You mean all the stuff they cut so the world feels totally empty, or the fact they skipped cities and npc populations almost entirely to save time, or the fact they took out attribute points and the tactics menu?

Seriously though, bears outnumber humans in DAI. What a strange design choice.

[Elleria]

This article really nails what I thought of DA:I in terms of outfit representation. Well constructed criticism backed with well written reasoning behind those criticism.

 

When you combine both PC and Companions, DAI had more variety in clothing/armor than both DAO and DA2 combined. I don't think I'd consider that lazy at all, let alone very, very lazy. 

 

BioWare can't win. For Origins people created all these cool mods of unique armors because people didn't like the ones shipped with the game because they were too bland and everybody wore the same thing. For DA2 BioWare followed that que and created unique armors but then people complained that we couldn't change their armor. So for DAI BioWare tried to split the middle and created unique armors that could be changed and now people are upset about those. BioWare can't win.

It's not a matter of whether or not Bioware winning or losing, but how well Bioware relate DA:I to the masses(players). I'm sure you have noticed that many of the armor types in DA:I are very similar, be it light, medium or heavy, which is very questionable judgement in Bioware part. Example:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

I don't believe that Bioware lacks the creativity as evidence by the grand fashion design worn by Empress Celene, First Enchanter Vivienne and many others. So for Bioware to give us the similar armor design for the Inquisitor to wear in terms of light, medium and heavy is lazy(for lack of better terms).

 

And don't get me started with the odd beige Skyhold outfit...

[SACanuckin Oz]

[Totally off-topic]

Please help!

How can you 1. post pictures (I, uh, can't), and 2. use the spoiler thingy.

I am so challenged it's embarrasing...

[Elleria]

[Totally off-topic]

Please help!

How can you 1. post pictures (I, uh, can't), and 2. use the spoiler thingy.

I am so challenged it's embarrasing...

To post pictures, I first upload images to my imgur account. Next, I use the 'Image' option available here.

 

Click on 'Special BB Code' to make use of the 'Spoiler' function.

[Grieving Natashina]

For images, type in [img]picture url[ /img]  with no spaces.  Spoiler tags are done like this: [spoiler] Whatever [ /spoiler]  with no spaces.  I usually do that because it's faster for me.  

[Winged Silver]

Oh yes.

 

For a company that basically sells itself as an RPG creator, it seemed really odd to leave out so many elements of, well, roleplaying. I know for some players, clothing doesn't matter, and it's all about the stats. That's cool, and it's a reflection of one way to the game. But another way to play the game is to attach your own interpretation of significance to how companions dress. 

 

When the author mentioned dressing Alistair in Cailan's armor, I couldn't have agreed more. I do the same thing, and usually extend the practice to other characters. Morrigan stays in her usual robes, or I throw in her the Sacred Ashes trailer robes (mod) she was featured in for variety. Leliana gets the (modded) armor she was featured in the promotional images for "Leliana's Song" because I always feel that the signature 'stylish' (apparently she thinks so ) apparel is more fitting than the rather bland, run of the mill, leather armors we see in Dragon Age: Origins. 

 

And if I harden a character? Hell yes I switch up their armor to reflect that. 

 

So given how much attention I like to pay to what my companions are wearing, I think it was really a shame and missed opportunity that I didn't have the chance to do that with my own character, who I should almost feel closest to. 

 

If Bioware were to implement this later on in a patch or DLC, I would be really happy. I'd probably be willing to pay too. Because I have a lot of fun roleplaying my character's every little quirk, and that's what I play games for

[SardaukarElite]

Ha, I never thought of the Skyhold Defaults being Inky's under armour gear. Now I'll never be able to not associate them with the smell of sweaty clothes.

 

I suppose that's down to individual perspective. Bioware obviously had/have their priorities. Armour variation in DAI was/is not one of them.

Sure, the 'world' does have many interesting armours, but when my character, and the companions for that matter. are locked into one style (with maybe 4 minor variations), and this is even accross the different classes, I (me) consider that lazy.

 

Work that you (or I) don't value is still work. If game developers were as lazy as players accuse them of being they wouldn't keep their jobs.

 

I question a lot of the priorities that Inquisition had in its development, but these are issues (I have) with its design, not the developer's commitment. They can be criticised in more constructive ways.

[HM Vengeance]

It seems the game was originally intended for you to be male and a mage (NPC dialogue, clothing and character creation seem to support this)

[Winged Silver]

It seems the game was originally intended for you to be male and a mage (NPC dialogue, clothing and character creation seem to support this)

 

Can you expand on this? I haven't done a full playthrough as a male, so I may just not have noticed (or I'm just being unobservant )

[SACanuckin Oz]

I stand corrected.

I should have used 'un-imaginitive" as this is closer to the truth of what I feel. Lazy can be misconstrued as meaning sitting at your desk with your feet up, which is not what I meant. Lack of vision, disconnect from gamers needs/wants, narrow minded approach to gaming design priorities, these are all better words to convey my feedback

[HM Vengeance]

Can you expand on this? I haven't done a full playthrough as a male, so I may just not have noticed (or I'm just being unobservant )

 

Character creation: Majority of options are shaved hairstyles, long hair even has sideburns.

 

Clothing: Ball attire is for a man and has been used on your advisors to save time.

 

Game art: Promotional material, screenshots, videos........all male.

 

NPCs Dialogue and scenes: They refer to you as "sir" even if you're playing as a female, ball room dance is meant for a man. War table mission where you can "seduce a noble" is for a man, duel for Josephine is meant for a man. There's loads more.........

 

As for the mage part, some agents can only be hired if you're a mage or have Vivienne in the party. The whole bloody game is designed for a mage inquisitor and you can tell that when you play as a human mage, you get a lot more dialogue in certain missions.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I wouldn't say that. Quite the opposite in fact. In many, many aspects of Inquisition the effort, time, and devotion the team put into making it really shines through.
Unfortunately, this isn't one of those areas.

A lot of DAIs issues can be traced back to some bizarre resource allocation decisions. They seem to have spent huge amounts of time and effort on some things, and then completely phoned in some others. If they had deployed their resources a bit differently (such as going for slightly fewer or smaller zones), they could have directed more effort to the areas that ended up falling short like character hair, clothing, and animations.

[SardaukarElite]

Game art: Promotional material, screenshots, videos........all male.

 

A few trailers, developer walkthroughs / livestreams  and promotional materials featured a female Inquisitior. Though they were easy to miss.

 

Dragon Ages have always featured the three classes and gender choice as a starting premise though, so I'm pretty sure that it was always intended to offer those options. There's a lengthy discussion that could be had on how gender features for variable gender player characters and BioWare approaches it, but it's seriously off topic.

 

I think the thing with mages is that they are by their nature plot fuel, so there will always be more obviously different things for them in the story.

[HM Vengeance]

A few trailers, developer walkthroughs / livestreams  and promotional materials featured a female Inquisitior. Though they were easy to miss.

 

Dragon Ages have always featured the three classes and gender choice as a starting premise though, so I'm pretty sure that it was always intended to offer those options. There's a lengthy discussion that could be had on how gender features for variable gender player characters and BioWare approaches it, but it's seriously off topic.

 

I think the thing with mages is that they are by their nature plot fuel, so there will always be more obviously different things for them in the story.

 

 At the beginning Solas mentions that he couldn't imagine a Mage with such power, the game wants you to play as a Mage because it fits the story Bioware wanted to tell. What gave it away is you need a Mage to repair things and to use Veilfire, also i've noticed a Human Mage get more dialogue and Agent options when playing as one.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Because, let's face it, while the official mantra might be "magic is meant to serve man", the reality is "magic is cool, and I can fry your face off, or boil your blood" Mages rule

[SardaukarElite]

 At the beginning Solas mentions that he couldn't imagine a Mage with such power, the game wants you to play as a Mage because it fits the story Bioware wanted to tell. What gave it away is you need a Mage to repair things and to use Veilfire, also i've noticed a Human Mage get more dialogue and Agent options when playing as one.

 

...and if you're not a mage he comments on it, and you get to pick locked doors or bash down barriers.

 

So far you're arguing that mages get different content so the game must be designed for them. But (ignoring arguments about how much content everyone else has) that doesn't exclude the possibility that the game was designed for all, they just did a better job of putting in things for mages or it's simply easier to add content for the guys who can imagine fire and lightning into existence.

[Winged Silver]

Character creation: Majority of options are shaved hairstyles, long hair even has sideburns.

 

Clothing: Ball attire is for a man and has been used on your advisors to save time.

 

Game art: Promotional material, screenshots, videos........all male.

 

NPCs Dialogue and scenes: They refer to you as "sir" even if you're playing as a female, ball room dance is meant for a man. War table mission where you can "seduce a noble" is for a man, duel for Josephine is meant for a man. There's loads more.........

 

As for the mage part, some agents can only be hired if you're a mage or have Vivienne in the party. The whole bloody game is designed for a mage inquisitor and you can tell that when you play as a human mage, you get a lot more dialogue in certain missions.

 

For the hairstyles....well I go to a women's college. I've certainly seen enough of them on people on campus. So I guess I could see it either way. I myself would have appreciated more longer hairstyles.

 

True, though he was wearing a helmet. The gender didn't seem overly important (at least in the trailer and images I saw). Additionally, I would argue that the final cover for Inquisition features a character whose gender isn't easily identifiable.

 

'Sir' is something we've seen versions of before, and it hasn't always been strictly male. In DA2, we had Serrah and Mesere (however that's spelled) for a Hawke of either gender. I suppose I don't see that as a hard line pointing towards male-centric.

 

Why is a dance meant only for a man? If I recall correctly, they make a point of saying that the gender of the dancers doesn't really matter. Having never romanced Josephine (I'm assuming that's what the duel is for?) I can't comment on that.

 

I honestly don't recall which agents are mage only. I don't remember having any major difference in which agents I could acquire between my mage Inquisitor and rogue Inquisitor.

 

Wouldn't that make sense that a mage would have more specialized dialog though? I mean, yeah sure, rogues and warriors should have their perks too, but a mage just has....a really different perceptive. I would think the lack of specialized dialog would be more of an eyesore, so to speak, than its inclusion. Also, rogues and warriors did have access to some of that dialog I think (the arcane knowledge perk, I believe), though perhaps I am mixing the two up.

 

My apologies if any of that sounds argumentative, but I wanted to share a different perspective on some of the features you pointed out. Bioware has certainly had semi-canon PCs in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were correct in this regard.

[AlanC9]

Oh yes.
 
For a company that basically sells itself as an RPG creator, it seemed really odd to leave out so many elements of, well, roleplaying. I know for some players, clothing doesn't matter, and it's all about the stats. That's cool, and it's a reflection of one way to the game. But another way to play the game is to attach your own interpretation of significance to how companions dress. 
 
When the author mentioned dressing Alistair in Cailan's armor, I couldn't have agreed more. I do the same thing, and usually extend the practice to other characters. Morrigan stays in her usual robes, or I throw in her the Sacred Ashes trailer robes (mod) she was featured in for variety. Leliana gets the (modded) armor she was featured in the promotional images for "Leliana's Song" because I always feel that the signature 'stylish' (apparently she thinks so ) apparel is more fitting than the rather bland, run of the mill, leather armors we see in Dragon Age: Origins. 
 
And if I harden a character? Hell yes I switch up their armor to reflect that. 
 

How do you reconcile dressing them for looks with the item stats, RP-wise? Do you figure the characters don't know the stats?