29 réponses à ce sujet

[Carmen_Willow]

Those who read my posts know that I'm a pretty big fan of Bioware and all things Dragon Age, but as I thought about responding to another post here tonight, this thought (which had occurred to me in passing just about every time I went to the Fallow Mire), came back to haunt me, and I just had to say something about it. So, please don't come down hard on me, it isn't often that I actually gripe about some thing in the DA world.

 

I haven't played "Jaws" yet, so I don't know how much this changes the impression given in Inquisition of the Avaar, but I was sadly disappointed by the way Bioware portrayed the Avaar in this game.

 

In Origins and DA:II, the Avaar were a fierce and well-honed people, barbarians, yes, but formidable with an interesting culture (loved the marriage thing) and religion. In Inquisition, they were turned into the poster children for the terminally stupid. If these Avaar were the first you'd ever met, you'd think that the average IQ of the tribes was about 30, and had hormone problems.

 

I don't know why Bioware did this, but I was really disappointed, and I'm concerned as to how they will portray the Rivanni (sp?) if they ever get around to taking us to Rivain. Will the Seers be toothless old hags who shake chicken bones when they cast spells?

 

I am sad that Bioware turned an old and valued culture into a figure of fun by making the Avaar bosses big lugs.

 

Maybe "Jaws" gives us Avaar who reflect the culture written in the lore instead of figures of fun to be laughed at, or maybe not. I just hope they go back to being the interesting culture they used to be instead of  the big clowns they were in this game.

 

 

[caradoc2000]

I haven't played "Jaws" yet

And there is your answer.

 

Do play JoH to get a different perspective regarding the Avvar in DAI.

[leaguer of one]

Op....You clearly have not played the dlc yet. And the Avvar you speak of in DAI non-dlc are idiots except for the goat throwing one. He made it a point his son was an idiot as well as his fallowers. The avvar in the dlc are nothing like the ones met in the marsh.

[KaiserShep]

I rather liked the Sky Watcher, and wished we got to see more of him. The goat-thrower was pretty much the comedy Avvar, but he was at least up front about his son being an idiotic brat.

[Excella Gionne]

Op....You clearly have not played the dlc yet. And the Avvar you speak of in DAI non-dlc are idiots except for the goat throwing one. He made it a point his son was an idiot as well as his fallowers. The avvar in the dlc are nothing like the ones met in the marsh.

Well, it's not available on the majority of platforms yet and only two of them(PC, Xbox One). 'Though, I don't know what platform the OP is on. 

[Aimi]

I haven't played "Jaws" yet, so I don't know how much this changes the impression given in Inquisition of the Avaar, but I was sadly disappointed by the way Bioware portrayed the Avaar in this game.

I had some things to say about this subject immediately after I finished "Jaws of Hakkon". You might find them interesting.

[Sifr]

I rather liked the Sky Watcher, and wished we got to see more of him. The goat-thrower was pretty much the comedy Avvar, but he was at least up front about his son being an idiotic brat.

 

Sky Watcher was one of those characters I really wished could have had more screen time or been a temporary companion, especially during JOH since he'd have fit the story like a glove? Having him be our guide to Avvar culture and help us in ingratiating ourselves to the Avvar would have been cool?

 

Still, I did like how he ends up shacking up with Thane Sun-Hair if you send him to Stone-Bear Hold via the War Table mission, just wish we'd seen him walking around the place afterwards?

 

Movran the Goat Thrower wasn't really an idiot as some have said, I took him to simply be a rambunctious guy who was following their traditional honour-code about avenging the death of a relative, not that he actually cares about his son being killed, since even he freely admits his kid was a moron and he was glad to be finally rid of the brat.

 

When you consider in Orlais and Antiva they've had duels over the smallest thing (like the vintage of a bottle of port), as well as gone to war over stuff like this, it kinda says something that the Avvar "Barbarian" is far more reasonable and willing to let the matter drop with the minimalist amount of effort needed to sastify honour?

[LOLandStuff]

That was just one group you met. And there will always gonna be a village idiot that'll stand out from the norm.

 

The thing I hate the most is the Planet of Hats trope. So cliche it makes me cringe.

[thats1evildude]

We never met any Avaar in DAO. There was a random encounter with some Avaar barbarians in Awakening, but that was it.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

When you consider in Orlais and Antiva they've had duels over the smallest thing (like the vintage of a bottle of port), as well as gone to war over stuff like this, it kinda says something that the Avvar "Barbarian" is far more reasonable and willing to let the matter drop with the minimalist amount of effort needed to sastify honour?

Bingo.

[Carmen_Willow]

And there is your answer.

 

Do play JoH to get a different perspective regarding the Avvar in DAI.

I will when it finally appears on console.

[Carmen_Willow]

We never met any Avaar in DAO. There was a random encounter with some Avaar barbarians in Awakening, but that was it.

If you do the DLC with the Duke, his bodyguard is Avaar., and quite formidible.  And you're right, we met Chasind in Lothering, my bad. The sad thing is that if all you play is the Vanilla game, you come away thinking the Avaar are an object of fun.  And I wasn't just thinking of the Chief, his idiot son, the Avaar bandit in the keep at Crestwood, all great big brutes. Their culture with the Sky Mother and she who walks between the worlds, the "untying the knots in the rope" to find out how long you have to stay married, all these speak to a unique and interesting culture that we don't see in Inquisition.

 

Glad to know that the DLC might help change that picture, but not everyone will see this. I annoys me in part because my heroine in my fanfic has an Avaar father and an Orlesian mother, and my father was never a figure of fun. He died trying to defend my honor against Arl Howe.

[Reznore57]

In Lothering, there's a group of them being accused of Theft. And if you do the DLC with the Duke, his bodyguard is Avaar.

 

I'm pretty sure they were Chasind and not Avaar.

[caradoc2000]

I will when it finally appears on console.

You're kidding, right?

 

Edit:

Because of the advice of my solicitors I will state the following:

I am sure PS folks will have the chance to appreciate JoH eventually.

[X Equestris]

I'm pretty sure they were Chasind and not Avaar.

Yeah, those were Chasind.

[LOLandStuff]

If it's Duke Prosper you're referring to, his bodyguard was Chasind, not Avaar.

[Aimi]

Yeah, Prosper's bodyguard Cahir was Chasind, and so were many Lothering refugees (including the infamous doomsayer).

AFAIK the first big Avvar thing in the games was the tomb underneath the Vigil in Awakening.

[Carmen_Willow]

Thank you, I remember now, his bodyguard WAS  Chasind. That's even more depressing! To think that the only Avaar you ever meet in the vanilla version are all figures of fun, portrayed as ignorant savages.

[Aimi]

Thank you, I remember now, his bodyguard WAS  Chasind. That's even more depressing! To think that the only Avaar you ever meet in the vanilla version are all figures of fun, portrayed as ignorant savages.

That's a fairly common set of 'barbarian' tropes, and they go back to classical Greece, Rome, and China. In general, the inhabitants of populous, settled societies rarely have a good handle on how the people on the margins of settled society operate.

For Dragon Age, the Jaws of Hakkon DLC did a lot to remedy that. I don't know if the cut "Human Barbarian" Origin would have been anything like it - I doubt that it even got far enough into the planning stage for the devs to say, let alone people like us who know nothing about the process - but it might have been. Then again, the Dalish have never made a whole lot of sense, and they've been around since the beginning of the games...so I dunno.

[Sifr]

Thank you, I remember now, his bodyguard WAS  Chasind. That's even more depressing! To think that the only Avaar you ever meet in the vanilla version are all figures of fun, portrayed as ignorant savages.

 

Although the Doomsayer for all his hysterics, was somehow aware of the presence of the Taint within the Warden, the "Vile blackness within them".

 

Considering that very few people know how Wardens gain their abilities and that no-one in Lothering had yet identified you as a Warden, nor had you introduced yourselves as one, that's actually pretty astute of an observation, when you come to think about it?

[Lady Artifice]

Thank you, I remember now, his bodyguard WAS  Chasind. That's even more depressing! To think that the only Avaar you ever meet in the vanilla version are all figures of fun, portrayed as ignorant savages.

 

I don't think Sky watcher is played for comedic value. I think he's depicted as reasonably intelligent, and very badass. 

 

Actually, same with the goat throwing Avvar chieftain. He's bound by the traditions of his people, and he's following them. They might be barbaric and weird, a little nonsensical, but he himself is sort of depicted as "crazy awesome." At least, I think that was the feeling their going for.

 

So, in the vanilla part of the entire series, we encounter a total of three Avvar with any characterization, and two out of those three are depicted in a positive light. Or at least, I believe that's the intention behind their depictions. 

 

And if you consider the representation of Avvar outside of the vanilla game, you've got Stone Bear hold and it's array of interesting personalities, as well as Kell in The Calling.

 

Over all, I really think the writers/devs have taken great care to represent the Avvar with diversity and respect. 

 

Although the Doomsayer for all his hysterics, was somehow aware of the presence of the Taint within the Warden, the "Vile blackness within them".

 

Considering that very few people know how Wardens gain their abilities and that no-one in Lothering had yet identified you as a Warden, nor had you introduced yourselves as one, that's actually pretty astute of an observation, when you come to think about it?

 

 

I like to think (well maybe "like" is the wrong word) that he had been infected with the taint, and just like Ruck, could sense to corruption in a sort of erratic way. The thought kind of creeps me out, but in a good way. 

[Sifr]

I like to think (well maybe "like" is the wrong word) that he had been infected with the taint, and just like Ruck, could sense to corruption in a sort of erratic way. The thought kind of creeps me out, but in a good way. 

 

That's what I was thinking as well, he does tell us that the 'spawn attacked his village and tore his wife from him, so he could have been infected?

 

It's a little happier (though still kinda grim) to think that maybe the Darkspawn raided his village a few times before the horde broke through, so he's had experience with people who've been tainted? WOT has that letter from a dwarf who mentions that the (possibly) tainted dwarves of Kal-Sharok and Wardens have a very similar "look" in their eyes, so perhaps there's some kind of "tell" that they give off that people can learn to look for?

 

(Another reason I wish that post-Joining, the Wardens gained those supernatural blue eyes that were in the Sacred Ashes trailer, it'd be eerily cool)

[Bad King]

Thank you, I remember now, his bodyguard WAS  Chasind. That's even more depressing! To think that the only Avaar you ever meet in the vanilla version are all figures of fun, portrayed as ignorant savages.

 

You should read Dragon Age: The Calling (if you haven't already). There's an Avvar Grey Warden named Kell ap Morgan in it who is pretty awesome:

 

Spoiler

He sacrifices himself battling the darkspawn with his mabari Hafter in order to give Maric, Fiona and Duncan the chance to escape. There's also a chapter in which the protagonists get trapped in their dreams (like with the sloth demon in DA:O) which depicts Kell in his village prior to him joining the Wardens. At this point in the story, Maric specifically recognises the sophistication of their culture, particularly their stonemasonry and architecture.

 

Also, I don't really mind how they were portrayed in Inquisition. I generally dislike crude stereotypes of non-state societies in media, but (with the exception of the "idiot son" and his mobs) the Avvar characters in vanilla are sympathetic: the Sky Watcher aids the Inquisition as does Movran if you give him the opportunity, and originally sent his son to deal with the Venatori in the region and not the Inquisition. There's also a scholar in the game who is interested in Avvar culture. From the War Table:

 

As a longtime scholar of the ancient Avvar, I find the information you uncovered about Tyrdda Bright-Axe fascinating. Many believe the Avvar unsophisticated barbarians with no culture worth studying, but do not Orlesians say the same of us?

[In Exile]

Although the Doomsayer for all his hysterics, was somehow aware of the presence of the Taint within the Warden, the "Vile blackness within them".

Considering that very few people know how Wardens gain their abilities and that no-one in Lothering had yet identified you as a Warden, nor had you introduced yourselves as one, that's actually pretty astute of an observation, when you come to think about it?

He was tainted. That was the implication. Just like the soldier at Ostagar.

[Sifr]

He was tainted. That was the implication. Just like the soldier at Ostagar.

 

Yeah, but the healer at Ostagar (voiced by Jo Wyatt, which I always find cool whenever I replay DAO) said that she could find no trace of the corruption in his blood, meaning she was actively looking for signs that he was tainted but couldn't find any, leading her to suspect that instead "He's just terrified".

 

Carver mentions in Legacy that the soldiers at Ostagar were shown dead ghouls, which gels with what we saw in Origins where we saw a guy showing a dead genlock to the recruits and warning not to get too close because even dead, it can still infect people.

 

On the other hand, he could have been tainted but the signs had yet to manifest, since the time it takes for people to succumb seems to vary between people and Alexius' research in the Dark Future mentions that certain people are more resistant than others? Bethany/Carver lasted about a week untreated before they were able to find Grey Wardens to help them (or didn't), Mahariel was able due to Marethari's magic to last until Ostagar, while Felix was able to last for several months with some kind of medicinal aid and perhaps blood magic?