145 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden_Persona]

I have more faith in Bioware than most people seem to, but I don't think they've proven capable of making race selection matter. It would matter even less if the leak is true since you're in a totally different region of space away from all the cultures of the original game, with nothing but a crew of seven as our connection to the original trilogy's races and cultures. At least with ME1-3 the focus seemed to be on the galactic community, so having different playable races would have allowed a person to experience all the angles within said cultures. They chose to go the human only route, so I think the book is closed. Besides, ME has a bunch of awesome races I'd love to play as and they are going to add even more to the mix. If playable races were a thing who would we be allowed to play as? Just the council races? What about Drell, Quarians, the new races added to the mix? I'd rather them focus on one race and put the resources to things like better armor sets and customization. Also I'd love to see a Dead Space 3 type weapon upgrade system.

 

As far as Origins is concerned I think the game is beyond overrated, but it did do different races really well. The Origin stories were very refreshing, and I felt like I wanted to experience them all. Not only that but because each Origin was also an arc it did an amazing job setting up my character's motivation that carried my playthrough even though beyond the Origins it didn't change a thing. Playing as a human noble I personally felt like I wanted to go on a quest for vengeance, like there was a justifiable reason for it. Playing as a city Elf I felt like I was justified in hating humans, so I treated humans like crap. Compare that with Inquisition where I can choose how I want to play an Inquisitor, but the game doesn't give me an incentive to. I just do it for the sake of doing it.

 

I really wish people stopped trying to turn Mass Effect into Dragon Age, and vice versa though. Next people are going to ask for the ability to control our companions.

[Vazgen]

Agreed, except this

Next people are going to ask for the ability to control our companions.

Why not? I'm not talking about tactical interface or custom AI tactics here, but simply giving control of the companion character should not be hard to implement. Not that I want it too much, squadmate AI in ME didn't require babysitting them that much, but it can be a neat feature and I don't see negatives to it.

[Torgette]

Agreed, except this

 

Why not? I'm not talking about tactical interface or custom AI tactics here, but simply giving control of the companion character should not be hard to implement. Not that I want it too much, squadmate AI in ME didn't require babysitting them that much, but it can be a neat feature and I don't see negatives to it.

 

It would actually make a lot of sense if in combat and you went down that you took control of a squadmate and could revive your PC.

[Golden_Persona]

Agreed, except this

 

Why not? I'm not talking about tactical interface or custom AI tactics here, but simply giving control of the companion character should not be hard to implement. Not that I want it too much, squadmate AI in ME didn't require babysitting them that much, but it can be a neat feature and I don't see negatives to it.

I don't know, it just feels like it'd defeat the purpose of having a main character to begin with. It would make our character seem less important if you spent the whole game playing as a Krogan instead. In that case why not make the Krogan the MC?

 

Maybe I'm still stuck in the Shepard mindset. Shepard is the center star of ME1-3. Since Bioware is trying to make the new MC less of a messiah, more on the same level as his/ her allies, maybe it could work. Imagine being able to take control of any character you want, and taking control of that character even through cutscenes. Imagine being given different dialogue options depending on which character you take with you into a cutscene. Say Drack is as violent as Grunt, so all of his dialogue options are more aggressive, where maybe Cora's are more diplomatic. It would go a long way to making the next ME game feel more personal. Although then it'd defeat the purpose of customizing a MC to begin with.

[Vazgen]

I don't know, it just feels like it'd defeat the purpose of having a main character to begin with. Although maybe I'm still stuck in the Shepard mindset. Shepard is the center star of ME1-3. Since Bioware is trying to make the new MC less of a messiah, more on the same level as his/ her allies, maybe it could work. Imagine being able to take control of any character you want, and taking control of that character even through cutscenes. Imagine being given different dialogue options depending on which character you take with you into a cutscene. Say Drack is as violent as Grunt, so all of his dialogue options are more aggressive, where maybe Cora's are more diplomatic. It would go a long way to making the next ME game feel more personal.

I don't suggest having it in the cutscenes as well. My suggestion was from purely combat gameplay perspective. Some TPS games did that, notably Conflict series. Reviving main character is just one of the perks. You can move your sniper to a perch, then attack with your remaining squadmate while he provides covering fire from above. There are a lot of possibilities there. And when you get to a cutscene, it plays with your main character doing the talking. 

[TheJester000]

How so? In Origins we had the origin stories, obviously, and one further bit specific to each origins, but most of those things weren't particularly related to your race. In Inquisition there's some throwaway dialogue here and there about your race if you're not human but that's it. It really has no bearing on the story of Inquisition at all and I would argue the impact of your race in Origins is so minimal and unrelated to the story that it's irrelevant. It's great for role-playing purposes and I support race selection in Dragon Age, but I think it's a stretch to say it improves the stories of Origins and Inquisition.

 

That is kind of everyone else's point. If race has no bearing or impact on the story than there is no reason not to add multiple races. If being human is irrelavent, why force people to sticking to that race? You seem to have more faith in BW than most believing if DAI was human-centric that the story would have been much better. I think there past games prove other wise, being human has never added anything to the story or improved the game in any way, shape or form. I could have easily been an alien or different race in any past game and it would have come out the same. If you had been an alien Spectre from the beginning of the ME trilogy it wouldn't have changed anything, and the story would have still made sense.

[Golden_Persona]

That is kind of everyone else's point. If race has no bearing or impact on the story than there is no reason not to add multiple races. If being human is irrelavent, why force people to sticking to that race? You seem to have more faith in BW than most believing if DAI was human-centric that the story would have been much better. I think there past games prove other wise, being human has never added anything to the story or improved the game in any way, shape or form. I could have easily been an alien or different race in any past game and it would have come out the same. If you had been an alien Spectre from the beginning of the ME trilogy it wouldn't have changed anything, and the story would have still made sense.

 

Except the first trilogy was based around being a Human, a race that is new to the galactic community, in the same way that players were new to the Mass Effect universe. The first game was all about humans increasing their status in the galactic community through Shepard's actions. Then we go to ME2 where Shepard being human and killing Sovereign is the reason why the Collector's started targeting humans exclusively. Then ME3 comes around and Harbinger selecting humans as this cycle's Reaper material.

 

Many of the core themes of the original trilogy change completely if you could play as a Salarian, Turian or Asari. So many things are changed. I'm not saying I like "humans are special" theme, but it's still a core part of the original trilogy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Whereas in Mass Effect, the only species that come close to humans with their facial features are the Asari. 

And Quarians. And Drell. And even Batarians. That's more human-like facial features species than Dragon Age has. 

[Steppenwolf]

That is kind of everyone else's point. If race has no bearing or impact on the story than there is no reason not to add multiple races. If being human is irrelavent, why force people to sticking to that race?

That makes no sense. I said having multiple races to choose from didn't enhance the story.

You seem to have more faith in BW than most believing if DAI was human-centric that the story would have been much better.

But I never said that. Or anything even approaching that. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

I think there past games prove other wise, being human has never added anything to the story or improved the game in any way, shape or form. I could have easily been an alien or different race in any past game and it would have come out the same. If you had been an alien Spectre from the beginning of the ME trilogy it wouldn't have changed anything, and the story would have still made sense.

That's demonstrably false. The entirely story of Mass Effect would have needed reworking from the ground up to accommodate alien races. Being a human was a central element of Shepard's story and a human being the only "witness" against Saren and the Reapers is what causes such mistrust and disbelief from the Council.

[Steppenwolf]

And Quarians. And Drell. And even Batarians. That's more human-like facial features species than Dragon Age has.

...what? You can't even see Quarians faces, the Drell have no eyebrows and limited facial movement, and the Batarians only expressions are anger and disgust. Dragon Age has humans, elves, dwarves, Qunari and Darkspawn.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

...what? You can't even see Quarians faces, the Drell have no eyebrows and limited facial movement, and the Batarians only expressions are anger and disgust. Dragon Age has humans, elves, dwarves, Qunari and Darkspawn.

We see Tali's face in ME3 if we romance her. We get a picture. Her face is very human-like. More than even the Asari.

Spoiler

And Drell have similar facial features minus ears and eyebrows(though they have scales that serve like an equivalent) while Batarians are only different in that they have an extra set of eyes and a different nose. Overall both have a lot of human facial features, much more that are similar than different. 

Expressions =/= facial features. All the races I listed could operate without a hitch with the human face animations, except the Batarians since they'd need extra set of eyes added but that's not hard. 

[Steppenwolf]

We see Tali's face in ME3 if we romance her. We get a picture. Her face is very human-like. More than even the Asari.

...no.

And Drell have similar facial features minus ears and eyebrows(though they have scales that serve like an equivalent) while Batarians are only different in that they have an extra set of eyes and a different nose. Overall both have a lot of human facial features, much more that are similar than different. 
Expressions =/= facial features. All the races I listed could operate without a hitch with the human face animations, except the Batarians since they'd need extra set of eyes added but that's not hard.

Drell barely move their faces and Batarians only move their mouths and eyelids. Their facial features are irrelevant if they have no comparable range of facial expression since we're talking about animations. A Drell moving it's face like a human would look odd.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

...no.


Drell barely move their faces and Batarians only move their mouths and eyelids. Their facial features are irrelevant if they have no comparable range of facial expression since we're talking about animations. A Drell moving it's face like a human would look odd.

Yes. Name one facial feature Quarians have based on the Tali image that is different than a human.

 

We only met a couple Drell, and one was rather stoic while the other barely showed up. Just because we don't see much in terms of expressions doesn't mean they are incapable. You need to provide lore evidence for that argument. 

[Steppenwolf]

Yes. Name one facial feature Quarians have based on the Tali image that is different than a human.

That picture is a human. It's a joke and I don't acknowledge it's validity.
 

We only met a couple Drell, and one was rather stoic while the other barely showed up. Just because we don't see much in terms of expressions doesn't mean they are incapable. You need to provide lore evidence for that argument.

We saw Drell in a variety of emotional situations and the most we ever saw from their facial animations was lip and eyelid movement. You have to provide evidence that they're capable of more than that since you're the one saying they're capable of expressions we never saw.

[Starblade7]

If you're going to argue about lore based on game design / engine mechanics, it's worth noting that facial expression seemed to be less detailed in 3 than in 2 (despite higher detail textures on the faces themselves). So it's really open to interpretation whether you want to say if those are either the limit, or the bare minimum.

The argument itself is detracting a bit from the point of the thread, though. Technologically, yes, BW is capable of making ME4 a game with options for different races. Should they? I don't think so, provided the main character has sufficient customisation / variety, including voice acting; I would love not to sound like every other explorer-hero. The human-only format has worked very well for them so far, and I would expect the developers to build on their strengths.

Naturally, I expect the current level of customisation in ME3MP to be the bare minimum for ME4MP. I would have liked to have seen more Salarians; they were quite under-represented for a Council race (4 Volus classes, lolwut?).

[Starblade7]

Edit: removed double post.

[timebean]

Forgot to mention, but if humans are the only option again I'm really curious to see what our background choices will be. I liked trying out the different combinations of pre-service histories and psychological profiles when playing the trilogy, even if they were largely for my own role-playing purposes. Or maybe they'll go the DA2 route and have a singular background.

Agree totally with this!  I would go one step further and say that i would prefer human only in the next ME:N with a few different but deep background stories to choose from.  When I met the girl who had been captured by slavers in ME1 while I was playing with the "Batarian slavers killed my whole family" background, that scene was pretty damned emotional (way more personal than playing a different background).. I hope if they do go human-only route, that they develop some of the alternative backgrounds a bit deeper than in previous games (ie. provide a few more key moments like that).

 

I always like options where I can replay as a very different character each time.  Having the protag's background story be a larger part of interactions and story development would be great. imo!

 

*snip*

 

I really wish people stopped trying to turn Mass Effect into Dragon Age, and vice versa though. Next people are going to ask for the ability to control our companions.

NOOOO!!!! Blasphemy!

 

Don't get me wrong. I love Dragon Age.  I am a big time squealing fangirl (I even liked DAI, despite my occasional rants and general gripes about the game).  Hell, I even write gooey, angst-ridden fan-fiction cause I adore the characters so much (and never want the game to end). But I don't want DA anywhere near my Mass Effect!!!!!  They exists in two different parts of my brain!

 

And one of the reasons is that I just plain love the gameplay in Mass Effect.  It is just good old-fashioned fun to hide behind stuff and shoot aliens and mercs with cool guns (seriously, the weapons are wicked) and pop some biotic badassery on them (like I am a space wizard).  And I like just knowing that  my team has my back.  I have no desire to jump into Garrus's body and screw up his fabulous sniper shots.  And seriously...I have had enough mind-melding with old Liara to last a lifetime. Controlling our companions...NOOOOO!!!

 

 

However...I have to admit...I would love to have a mini sequence in the game where I could play as a volus.  Like...hearing the Darth Vader breathing in my suit and looking out through the little eye-holes and using the hands to do some stuff...like disable a bomb or something.  I know that sounds silly, but I think it would be so fun!  Sorta like the sequence where we were in the suit underwater in Leviathan.  I just wanna roll around a act like a fool in one of the little metal volus suits.  Like a little metal biotic hobbit!!! 

[ZoliCs]

A few lines of dialogue that don't change how anything plays out. If it doesn't change the story then it's just set dressing, nothing more. Being a mage doesn't give you a third option in Broken Circle. Being a Dalish Elf doesn't alter what happens in Nature of the Beast. Etc.
It's all nice for role-playing purposes but it doesn't bolster the story.

 

Are you aware of that enhances =/= changes. It's hard to argue with you if you change your stance every other post.

Gender doesn't changes the story either, only enhances. Should we take that away as well? And while we're at it let's take away classes. They have 0 connection to the plot so what's the point, right?

[Vazgen]

And Quarians. And Drell. And even Batarians. That's more human-like facial features species than Dragon Age has. 

Quarians - assuming 1) they are present in ME:Next (I sure hope so!) 2) they don't wear helmets which is problematic 3) they are indeed that human-like and it was not a matter of low resources that forced Bioware to use a stock photo

Spoiler

Batarians and Drell barely have any facial expressions. We saw a grateful Batarian on Mordin's recruitment mission, a scared one (Afterlife barman) and an angry one (Tarak) and they all looked pretty much the same. Same goes for Drell - calm Thane and emotional Kolyat. You have to have more emotions for the protagonist. 

[Golden_Persona]

Tali's photo should never be brought into a discussion about anything, except as proof for Bioware's lack of effort. That's literally the only time in ME where Bioware was outright being blatantly lazy. Other things can be explained away due to hardware restrictions or deadlines. Tali's photo is the only thing that needs to be retconned. Maybe Tali wasn't capable of taking a photo of herself or any Quarian at the time so she had to find a human one on the extranet, and used space photoshop as a prank. Shepard is only smiling at the photo because he realizes he was the butt of a joke...

 

Please...

[Steppenwolf]

Are you aware of that enhances =/= changes. It's hard to argue with you if you change your stance every other post.
Gender doesn't changes the story either, only enhances. Should we take that away as well? And while we're at it let's take away classes. They have 0 connection to the plot so what's the point, right?

None of those things change or even enhance the story. They enhance the player's experience but have no bearing on the story. Playing as FemShep makes zero difference to the story. Playing as a Vanguard makes zero difference to the story. Playing as a Dwarf in Inquisition makes zero difference to the story.

[Torgette]

None of those things change or even enhance the story. They enhance the player's experience but have no bearing on the story. Playing as FemShep makes zero difference to the story. Playing as a Vanguard makes zero difference to the story. Playing as a Dwarf in Inquisition makes zero difference to the story.

 

If we want to be really minimalist, we could make ME4 a text-based adventure! 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Are you aware of that enhances =/= changes. It's hard to argue with you if you change your stance every other post.

Gender doesn't changes the story either, only enhances. Should we take that away as well? And while we're at it let's take away classes. They have 0 connection to the plot so what's the point, right?

Don't forget the options to customize the appearance of our character. That doesn't change the story at all either. 

 

 

Tali's photo should never be brought into a discussion about anything, except as proof for Bioware's lack of effort. That's literally the only time in ME where Bioware was outright being blatantly lazy. Other things can be explained away due to hardware restrictions or deadlines. Tali's photo is the only thing that needs to be retconned. Maybe Tali wasn't capable of taking a photo of herself or any Quarian at the time so she had to find a human one on the extranet, and used space photoshop as a prank. Shepard is only smiling at the photo because he realizes he was the butt of a joke...

 

Please...

I like Tali's appearance. 

[Steppenwolf]

Don't forget the options to customize the appearance of our character. That doesn't change the story at all either.

It doesn't. It's purely for RP purposes. It's a nice feature that I always look forward to, but just like the race selection in Dragon Age it has no impact on the stories.
 

I like Tali's appearance.

You're the only one. She's literally just human with lines drawn on her face.

[Helios969]

I'm in favor of a single male/female protagonist so long as the extra resources not gobbled up (and watered down) by offering multiple races show up elsewhere in the game...such as added cutscenes, more and better companion interactions and romances, more coherent story from start to finish, epic final battle, etc.  I think from a writing standpoint it makes possible sequels easier to manage.