1832 réponses à ce sujet

[9TailsFox]

Well because everyone that wants female characters or characters in general to be treat with respect when it comes to their concept and design, whiteout going fanservice wild every time their is a boob, is probably a SJW.

See this is the problem. These SJW  want to suck all the fun from games and make it some perfect ideal world according to them. Games was separate from really this is why it's fun we can experience something we can't in real live because it's wrong/unacceptable. We humans are violent, look at all games 99% of games basicly is to kill stuff. It's great to kill giant dragon. Or all wo/men fall for you, for no reason. And these SJW want to make it really. we have 9 companions ok 3 must be black 3 white 3 asian. 3 women 3 man 3 transgender. ... Even if you make everything "perfect" you still offend someone.

[Mihura]

If I remember right the fandom of The Witcher whine so much that Geralt original concept from TW 2 was changed because he was too "beautiful".
On the other hand, the whine about Triss lacking a scar or Ciri in high-heels was ignored, everyone whines but only people that want better female character design and in lore seem to get ****. I call this double standards. 

[AresKeith]

I am pretty sure he means this. author created something and some people cry very loud I am offended bla. bla. bla. And it was changed because of some whiners.

Example.

Look at DA:I I wouldn't be surprised we will never see desire demons back. Choice spirit.

 

The original one does look kinda stupid tho

 

[Shechinah]

I do think the more armored version looks better in its design; all the interesting pieces are kept while the added armor makes it more memorable as oppose to the other but that may be because the less-armored version style has become generic in my eyes. It's not as visually interesting as the more armored one is.

[Shechinah]

There are some designs in which the armor can have less armor and have skin exposed and still look visually interesting but in my opinion, this is more the case of the lack of armor subtracting from the design rather than adding to it. I think it is because some designs have the bare skin and minimal clothing but instead of working on that to make it more than the "template", they leave it like that rather than further developing it which makes it end up looking like something seen a lot of other times before. This less-armored version one is slightly better  because it has more details, additions and such but it still hits too much of the generic style to be interesting to me. 

 

As another note, I think the less-armored version has a design clash in that it does not seem to find the right balance between a simple design (the lack of armor and the exposure of skin gives a simple design because its largely one color) and a detailed design (all of the details, added colors and patterns). The armored version does away with the hybrid design by essentially making it a detailed design.   

[TheOgre]

"the original one looks kinda stupid" is a generic value statement that differs from person to person however. In order to widen their 'audience' publishers will push for more censorship to avoid scaring off potential investors. This franchise was built off being bold (at least in my mind) with the grimdark setting and lack of apologetic adult nature. I really doubt that Bioware itself decided for morals sake to dress up the women thick in priesty robes and heavy armor. It was more of a 'safe' approach that probably was enforced by EA. As something becomes more mainstream it seems to lose it's core values over time for the 'casual' investor as someone already said before, 'they have us already, they don't care about our dollar, they want new blood to advertise for'.

[The Baconer]

"the original one looks kinda stupid" is a generic value statement that differs from person to person however. In order to widen their 'audience' publishers will push for more censorship to avoid scaring off potential investors. This franchise was built off being bold (at least in my mind) with the grimdark setting and lack of apologetic adult nature. I really doubt that Bioware itself decided for morals sake to dress up the women thick in priesty robes and heavy armor. It was more of a 'safe' approach that probably was enforced by EA. As something becomes more mainstream it seems to lose it's core values over time for the 'casual' investor as someone already said before, 'they have us already, they don't care about our dollar, they want new blood to advertise for'.

 

What a tragedy.

[Shechinah]

(to TheOgre) The comment might have been meant more as a way to say that some might have disliked the designs, not because they thought it was sexualised or objectifying, but because they just did not think it was a good design.

[SofaJockey]

See this is the problem. These SJW  want to suck all the fun from games and make it some perfect ideal world according to them. Games was separate from really this is why it's fun we can experience something we can't in real live because it's wrong/unacceptable. We humans are violent, look at all games 99% of games basicly is to kill stuff. It's great to kill giant dragon. Or all wo/men fall for you, for no reason. And these SJW want to make it really. we have 9 companions ok 3 must be black 3 white 3 asian. 3 women 3 man 3 transgender. ... Even if you make everything "perfect" you still offend someone.

 

Truly, I would need a full page to detail the concerns I have with this post, so let's keep it simple:

• This term 'SJW' is just a lazy expression to label a range of folk with different opinions who disagree with the poster.
• Fun should not be fun at the expense of  being un-fun or dumb for many others.
• Dragon killing is good (in context) because you get materials and eliminate an apex predator.
• Boobs hanging out in battle simply so you can look at them is not compelling story design -
  revealing ceremonial armour, if fitting with the character's personality, (and fits the plot) might be, for example.
• All wo/men falling for you is just wish fulfilment, more complex story lines are more compelling.
  If a banging simulator is required, the internet is more than capable of obliging.
• Back to the lazy 'SJW' term again, everyone should be able to have some choices in the game for protagonist,
  and whilst there is no need for some 'united nations' quota, it's nice to see folk from across Thedas, what's the problem with that?

[Panda]

If I remember right the fandom of The Witcher whine so much that Geralt original concept from TW 2 was changed because he was too "beautiful".
On the other hand, the whine about Triss lacking a scar or Ciri in high-heels was ignored, everyone whines but only people that want better female character design and in lore seem to get ****. I call this double standards. 

 

Sadly it seems to be so if you are part of minority or woman your criticism is often ignored and taken as mindless talk of SJW, not necessarily by authors, but often by fellow players.

 

I am pretty sure he means this. author created something and some people cry very loud I am offended bla. bla. bla. And it was changed because of some whiners.

Example.

Look at DA:I I wouldn't be surprised we will never see desire demons back. Choice spirit.

 

I'm always pleased to see when authors take criticism seriously and change their product more inclusive. Warms my heart to see things like this.

[AresKeith]

(to TheOgre) The comment might have been meant more as a way to say that some might have disliked the designs, not because they thought it was sexualised or objectifying, but because they just did not think it was a good design.

 

Pretty much, I don't really care about sexualization and I have no problem with armor showing off skin to a degree. The armor in the original design is literally bikini armor (which is more "generic" than anything now) and I do feel developers need to move away from

[TheOgre]

What a tragedy.

 

Snarky response really? *whistle*

 

 

Pretty much, I don't really care about sexualization and I have no problem with armor showing off skin to a degree. The armor in the original design is literally bikini armor (which is more "generic" than anything now) and I do feel developers need to move away from

 

 

Yeah? What if I said I agreed with the concept change? It seems you guys would rather judge and leap to the conclusion any form of change is bad. I think the second concept looks better. Get off my case already.

[KaiserShep]

I am pretty sure he means this. author created something and some people cry very loud I am offended bla. bla. bla. And it was changed because of some whiners.

Example.

 

 

Eh, still looks like an improvement though.

[AresKeith]

Yeah? What if I said I agreed with the concept change? It seems you guys would rather judge and leap to the conclusion any form of change is bad. I think the second concept looks better. Get off my case already.

 

Where in my post did I judge you or accuse you?

 

Now your starting to put words in my mouth acting defensive 

[TheOgre]

Where in my post did I judge you or accuse you?

 

Now your starting to put words in my mouth acting defensive 

 

Referencing toward the like war that you and natashina seem to put in any snarky response (refer to the guy before I quoted).

[AresKeith]

Referencing toward the like war that you and natashina seem to put in any snarky response (refer to the guy before I quoted).

 

So I can't like a post for making me chuckle now? 

[Grieving Natashina]

The hell?  I haven't even been in this thread for several pages.  I said my piece, and I thought that was it.  I've been reading the conversation, and I thought it was understood that I never meant to offend you or anyone else in this thread.   I agreed to disagree, and now I've just been taking in both sides of the debate.  Was it because Ares and I happened liked a snarky comment?  Is that why this is a "war" all of a sudden?  

[KaiserShep]

I liked your comment to protest these shenanigans.

[Terodil]

Fun should not be fun at the expense of  being un-fun or dumb for many others.

Yes. But many people demand certain armor types NOT be present (for various reasons, mostly because they consider them 'offensive'), thereby reducing the potential enjoyment of others who do not share that view. The shoe fits that foot better than the other, because one is about having choice for some people, while the other is about reducing choice for everybody.
 

Boobs hanging out in battle simply so you can look at them is not compelling story design -
revealing ceremonial armour, if fitting with the character's personality, (and fits the plot) might be, for example.

Oh come now, I'm happy to discuss arguments but this is just stupid, plain and simple. Nobody said that every visual element is or needs to be part of 'compelling story design'. They are separate disciplines, though ofc they can and do overlap. Next we'll be talking about how the musical score is 'compelling story design', and every single note that does not directly mirror some motif in the story is criticised as 'dumb' or 'unnecessary'
 

All wo/men falling for you is just wish fulfilment, more complex story lines are more compelling.

Personal opinion presented as fact. I actually like the idea of a femme/homme fatale, haven't had that in quite a while. Besides, it can be as complex as the writers want to make it, the theme does not make it more or less complex per se.
 

If a banging simulator is required, the internet is more than capable of obliging.

Ding ding, I'm rich again. Can we stop repeating this completely unrelated, strawman nonsense now? I'm already past the "ad nauseam", and running short of anti-nausea pills. (BTW, this kind of demagogic 'argument' is *exactly* what I expect of SJWs, even though I personally tend to not use the term, for the reasons you cited, amongst others.)

Re: DD:OS -- I agree that the first design is stupid. The second is too. Why? because the male armor in both images looks unappealing imo. It's this hulking tin-can design that I dislike in any game. I don't mind either of the female versions. They're both pretty cool. I do find it sad that apparently campaigning about a fantasy game put so much pressure on the developer that they removed aesthetic options instead of adding others.

[TheOgre]

So I can't like a post for making me chuckle now? 

I made an ass out of myself with an assumption -- I thought it was because it was a crack at my QQ statement about males or females changing a lot of designs based on potential male or female complaints which does bother me. But in that comparison before and after, I felt the change for the female was good.

[AresKeith]

Re: DD:OS -- I agree that the first design is stupid. The second is too. Why? because the male armor in both images looks unappealing imo. It's this hulking tin-can design that I dislike in any game. I don't mind either of the female versions. They're both pretty cool. I do find it sad that apparently campaigning about a fantasy game put so much pressure on the developer that they removed aesthetic options instead of adding others.

 

Yeah, the hulking armor designs have never appealed to me either

 

I prefer medium sized

[Shechinah]

(to Terodil) I may be misunderstanding your point or missing it since my eyes are acting up but would a musical score not be a compelling story design since it can help set the mood or amplify it as well as ruin it by not matching the tone of a story segment like a scene dissonance in which something tragedy has occured but the instrumental song is similar to the one played during happier or victorious moments? 

[KaiserShep]

Looking back on DA:O's armors, I have a hard time fathoming what's really to miss about any of it. It's all fairly generic and/or ridiculously bulky. Not even Jabba the Hutt's slave girls would be caught dead in DA:O's more bikini-like armors.

[Mihura]

Sadly it seems to be so if you are part of minority or woman your criticism is often ignored and taken as mindless talk of SJW, not necessarily by authors, but often by fellow players.

 

 

I'm always pleased to see when authors take criticism seriously and change their product more inclusive. Warms my heart to see things like this.

 

Actually the complains about Ciri were done by a lot of players and my bet is that most of them are male, so it not really about the gender of the poster, although sometimes "minority or woman" are not taking seriously, this is not the case. At least I have a good experience when it comes to the Devs of CDPR but not the fandom.

There are people out there that want a game that makes sense and not fanservice just because.

[TheOgre]

Sadly it seems to be so if you are part of minority or woman your criticism is often ignored and taken as mindless talk of SJW, not necessarily by authors, but often by fellow players.

 

 

I'm always pleased to see when authors take criticism seriously and change their product more inclusive. Warms my heart to see things like this.

 

Chances are they just want more people to buy the product than satisfy the small niche of 'males' is what I figured