1832 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

I made an ass out of myself with an assumption -- I thought it was because it was a crack at my QQ statement about males or females changing a lot of designs based on potential male or female complaints which does bother me. But in that comparison before and after, I felt the change for the female was good.

 

I regards to your statement, I actually like that they are willing to listen to it though. And like I said in another post I don't have a problem with armor showing off skin to a degree or a woman's curves, but I do feel that they don't have go that far (the original DD:OS) to do so

[Shechinah]

(to KaiserShep) I liked some of it like the Chasind Robes design; it looked very sleek and nimble. I also liked the silly mage hats and the mage robes because they were colorful. Most of the melee armor I felt could use a bit of a variety but I did like that some of them like the metal soldier armor design was very subdued and common. The rogue sets could have used a bit more of a variety too.

[Terodil]

(to Terodil) I may be misunderstanding your point or missing it since my eyes are acting up but would a musical score not be a compelling story design since it can help set the mood or amplify it as well as ruin it by not matching the tone of a story segment like a scene dissonance in which something tragedy has occured but the instrumental song is similar to the one played during happier or victorious moments?

My point was that the poster I was quoting was equating disciplines that may overlap, but that are in no way identical. Of course a musical score should generally support the writing, as should the visual design. But every single discipline has elements that they are unique in contributing. It's actually the salt in the soup. Take the classic horror movie; the setting is serene, happy, you see a kid playing with the parents... and suddenly there is this 'sour yellow note' ( ) that introduces dissonance, tension, apprehension. Also, there are many elements that simply go far beyond what another discipline would contribute and are simply unrelated. E.g., the design of a particular desk lamp may simply not have anything to do with the plot, not everything needs to be symbolic. Same with armor. We need frill from time to time, otherwise we'd end up with monolithic works of art that simply leave no room to breathe.

[Terodil]

One addtional thought: I can get why people would be averse to having Cassie wear a more suggestive type of armor, for example. It would not match her character, I agree. However why would people feel the overwhelming urge to tell me how I should want to play my protagonist? Maybe she likes being a femme fatale, maybe she uses her stunning looks to her advantage (cf. the bards in Orlais). Her armor would fit the personality with which I would like to imbue her. Yet for some reason I'm not allowed to have and use such an armor design. This line of thought is highly invasive and borders on the totalitarian.

[Mihura]

One addtional thought: I can get why people would be averse to having Cassie wear a more suggestive type of armor, for example. It would not match her character, I agree. However why would people try to tell me how I want to play my protagonist? Maybe she likes being a femme fatale, maybe she uses her stunning looks to her advantage. Her armor would fit the personality with which I would like to instill her. Yet apparently I need to be told not to make her wear it because... errr... reasons. It's invasive and borders on the totalitarian.

 

The problem is not you want to do that with your female character, it is me not having the same option for my male character.

My favorite companion is Isabela, so... I am all for fanservice when it makes sense. What I hate is the difference in armors for the two optional Inquisitors.

 

It is frustrating wanting to great a imposing female Inquisitor just like IB, to be given a type of body that is not even bigger than the human male Inquisitor. I want more options but for everyone not just one side.

[Hazegurl]

 

 

Laws restrict my freedoms, your sensibilities do not.

Yet sensibilities are taken under consideration with certain laws.

 

ie. Nudity laws

 

 And a company has the freedom to decide if they wish to listen to certain demands or not.  It's just that you don't like the demand they are listening to. Thus you are certainly the "offended whiner" on the other side of the coin. The offended party who, according to Fry, should just be dismissed. You know, because so what if you're offended by a company exercising their right to change their own material to meet demands.  See what I did there?

 

Do I agree that companies should censor themselves due to people being offended?  NO!  Which is why I mentioned perferring the middle ground. Boob plate armor should exist for people who want them, sex scenes should be in a game for those who want to see them, along with brothels, et al.  Anyone who doesn't like it, should have the option to skip it.  Of course that doesn't make everyone happy, and people will still try to have it removed simply because they don't like it. However, at the end of the day, they don't run the company and they are not in charge of censoring the product.

 

Just look at Rockstar, people have been offended by their games for years, they choose not to censor themselves.

 

Overall, I'm not saying it's wrong to speak out against censorship and those who advocate for censoring everything they see until we're all back in the Victorian era.  However, trying to dismiss others as whiners while whining about them whining never looks good.  Even when Stephen Fry is doing it.

[Terodil]

The problem is not you want to do that with your female character, it is me not having the same option for my male character.

My favorite companion is Isabela, so... I am all for fanservice when it makes sense. What I hate is the difference in armors for the two optional Inquisitors.
 
It is frustrating wanting to great a imposing female Inquisitor just like IB, to be given a type of body that is not even bigger than the human male Inquisitor. I want more options but for everyone not just one side.

Ah, I agree!

I'm all for having similar options for male characters. Said so a LOT of times, and others have too, if you look back over the past few pages. Your post is inclusive, and as such I appreciate it greatly. Sadly, a lot of posters don't share your productive approach and choose to spend all their time on putting down other posters and their ideas instead.

[Hazegurl]

If I remember right the fandom of The Witcher whine so much that Geralt original concept from TW 2 was changed because he was too "beautiful".
On the other hand, the whine about Triss lacking a scar or Ciri in high-heels was ignored, everyone whines but only people that want better female character design and in lore seem to get ****. I call this double standards. 



 

Don't remind me of that. I'm still mad.  Gerault was so damn sexy!

[Scofield]

I love making nothing more than big 2h barbarian warriors an all that entails, for once in a DA game i nearly got that with the qunari, but then i had to put on some really bad armor choices ( for qunari )

 

Sad thing is i moved to console, these things never bothered me on pc cause of mods lol, but every tiny thing is now glaring at me cause i cant just mod the buggers out

[TheOgre]

Did males really say that Gerault was too sexy please nerf? I feel shocked -- and very sad about that. It's not just about gender I get it but is it possible they felt that insecure about themselves or did they just maybe do the "he needs to be more real" trope. Considering all that he's been through, I wouldn't realistically want to play that.

[Mihura]

Ah, I agree!

I'm all for having similar options for male characters. Said so a LOT of times, and others have too, if you look back over the past few pages. Your post is inclusive, and as such I appreciate it greatly. Sadly, a lot of posters don't share your productive approach and choose to spend all their time on putting down other posters and their ideas instead.

 

I think a lot of people share my approach and I am even a SJW, feminist, tumblrist, whatever people feel they should call me.

The problem is that putting fanservice and dresses on males protagonist will made the world lose the seriousness of it(I do not believe so), so the most common behavior for the devs is cutting the fanservice on female characters instated of giving it, to everyone.
That is why a lot of people talk about the lack of creative freedom and complain about the whining. In true almost all of us agree with equality but the reality of the gaming world and character design is not exactly so black and white, there are more factors there, than fandom whine.
 

 

Did males really say that Gerault was too sexy please nerf? I feel shocked -- and very sad about that. It's not just about gender I get it but is it possible they felt that insecure about themselves or did they just maybe do the "he needs to be more real" trope. Considering all that he's been through, I wouldn't realistically want to play that.

 

 

Yes there was a nerdrage with that and the "corset armor" in TW 3, the devs kept their vision in TW 3 this time and ignore their complains lol

[TheOgre]

I feel embarrassed :/

 

 

Yes there was a nerdrage with that and the "corset armor" in TW 3, the devs kept their vision in TW 3 this time and ignore their complains lol

[Terodil]

Did males really say that Gerault was too sexy please nerf? I feel shocked -- and very sad about that. It's not just about gender I get it but is it possible they felt that insecure about themselves or did they just maybe do the "he needs to be more real" trope.

Me too. I really don't get that line of thinking at all. We all know that these characters are fictitious, it really boggles my mind why people would complain about a Geralt that's too sexy. Why not simply enjoy the eye candy if you're interested in men, and why not be happy for others who appreciate it even if you yourself don't care that much? It boggles my mind the same way when some people literally flip out at others criticising the looks of an NPC. Or the same way people find it appropriate to vandalise ads because the model is too pretty/handsome. 'Insecurity' hits the nail on the head I think. It's a sad state of affairs, because our world will be poorer for it.

[Shechinah]

I'm not familiar with "the Witcher" or Gerault that much but could it possibly be because they thought his appearance was too clean and smooth and wanted him to look more weathered?

[Terodil]

I think a lot of people share my approach and I am even a SJW, feminist, tumblrist, whatever people feel they should call me.

Ugh, let's not go there, hackles rising! xD
 

The problem is that putting fanservice and dresses on males protagonist will made the world lose the seriousness of it(I do not believe so), so the most common behavior for the devs is cutting the fanservice on female characters instated of giving it, to everyone.

Not sure I got you here: Do you mean to say that games would not be (as) successful if male protagonists had the option to wear more revealing armors / armors with more sex appeal? Is there any kind of precedent for this?

(Because I personally would have to struggle mightily to resist the urge to /point and /laugh at people who enraged over an optional wardrobe item.)

[9TailsFox]

I'm not familiar with "the Witcher" or Gerault that much but could it possibly be because they thought his appearance was too clean and smooth and wanted him to look more weathered?

This Geralt is 90-100 years old in witcher 2 and that pick look like 18 years.

[Mihura]

Ugh, let's not go there, hackles rising! xD
 

Not sure I got you here: Do you mean to say that games would not be (as) successful if male protagonists had the option to wear more revealing armors / armors with more sex appeal? Is there any kind of precedent for this?

(Because I personally would have to struggle mightily to resist the urge to /point and /laugh at people who enraged over an optional wardrobe item.)

 

I have no source or studies, only personal experience, about what I see and heard about character design processes, being a artist myself too and the general public in forums like The Witcher. Most of the devs seems to shy away from making the dresses or more reviling clothes accessible for the male characters, it is just the reality of things. The same way people are a afraid of dicks in games but not vaginas, the only game that comes to mind is Saint's Row 3 and 4.

Well I hope to see in the future a more equal treatment but I really doubt it, Bioware is still a rare case in my opinion. 

[9TailsFox]

I'm always pleased to see when authors take criticism seriously and change their product more inclusive. Warms my heart to see things like this.

And everyone completely miss my point. Just write how good cover was change, well this is BSN after all. I am not talking witch one is better, I am talking about forced self-censorship.

http://orogion.devia...plate-380891149

 

Just look at BSN this is uncomfortable for me change this change that. Bioware forced Alistair have sex with Morrigna so my Warden live happy with Alistair, but I am not happy because Alistair cheated on my Warden. DA:O ending was great i don't know any other game there sex is not just sex but integral part of main plot. And a lot of people was offended.

[KBomb]

Don't remind me of that. I'm still mad. Gerault was so damn sexy!

Pfft, he still is! I think he is more sexy now than in TW2.

I remember watching the "Killing Monsters" trailer and nearly having the vapors while a friend was with me (a non-gamer who doesn't even know who Geralt is) and she was like, "Really, KeKe? He looks like a warrior Santa Claus!" lol so different strokes, I guess.

[In Exile]

One addtional thought: I can get why people would be averse to having Cassie wear a more suggestive type of armor, for example. It would not match her character, I agree. However why would people feel the overwhelming urge to tell me how I should want to play my protagonist? Maybe she likes being a femme fatale, maybe she uses her stunning looks to her advantage (cf. the bards in Orlais). Her armor would fit the personality with which I would like to imbue her. Yet for some reason I'm not allowed to have and use such an armor design. This line of thought is highly invasive and borders on the totalitarian.

That's silly. The reality is that resources are limited and not every armour can be rendered. In this case, giving you what you want means less of what someone else wants.

The fact that there are also social policy reasons people can argue here is beside the point.

[Terodil]

That's silly. The reality is that resources are limited and not every armour can be rendered. In this case, giving you what you want means less of what someone else wants.

The fact that there are also social policy reasons people can argue here is beside the point.

Eh... in principle yes, in practice? No. Look at haircuts. 5 buzzcuts. You can't tell me that it would have made an impact on either budget or buzzcut afficionado satisfaction if there had been one less buzzcut and one hairdo with longer hair. Same with armor.

[Mihura]

On topic, here look.

 

This is the kind of fanservice I love, it is in character and it makes sense on her concept. Doing this to Cassandra would be awful, respecting character concepts above all, with female and male companions.

[Panda]

And everyone completely miss my point. Just write how good cover was change, well this is BSN after all. I am not talking witch one is better, I am talking about forced self-censorship.

http://orogion.devia...plate-380891149

 

Just look at BSN this is uncomfortable for me change this change what. Bioware forced Alistair have sex with Morrigna so my Warden live happy with Alistair, but I am not happy because Alistair cheated on my Warden. DA:O ending was great i don't know any other game there sex is not just sex but integral part of main plot. And a lot of people was offended.

 

I read that and I think that guy misses point entirely as well. Basically he doesn't know why women critic these pieces of art and what they would want. He thinks it's simply censorship cause female players are being so sensitive. He doesn't know how it feels when you play the game and only armor for your character is something skin-tight and revealing. When the only main female character in the game is wearing something stripper would, when her sexiness is portrayed as her main virtue. When there is this big huge cap between the way male characters and female characters have handled. He doesn't know why female players are against this, he just thinks they are out there to get him and get his work.

 

In general female players don't want everything censored and everything unsexy. What people want is equality. More female characters to match those male characters. More variety. More female characters who aren't sexy, since that's not all there is to woman. Not female characters in more revealing clothing than male characters. That author didn't even once state why the same armor covered up whole male character and was like steel bikini on female character and how it would make lot of female player to feel.

[Mihura]

I read that and I think that guy misses point entirely as well. Basically he doesn't know why women critic these pieces of art and what they would want. He thinks it's simply censorship cause female players are being so sensitive. He doesn't know how it feels when you play the game and only armor for your character is something skin-tight and revealing. When the only main female character in the game is wearing something stripper would, when her sexiness is portrayed as her main virtue. When there is this big huge cap between the way male characters and female characters have handled. He doesn't know why female players are against this, he just thinks they are out there to get him and get his work.

 

In general female players don't want everything censored and everything unsexy. What people want is equality. More female characters to match those male characters. More variety. More female characters who aren't sexy, since that's not all there is to woman. Not female characters in more revealing clothing than male characters. That author didn't even once state why the same armor covered up whole male character and was like steel bikini on female character and how it would make lot of female player to feel.

 

Could not say it better, I hate to be forced unto armors I find better looking on the male version. Why can't I have the same armor that is cool? that is the problem. I want more options that will include everyone, it is that easy really. More fanservice and dresses for male characters and more armors without ridiculous boob plate for female characters.

[9TailsFox]

I read that and I think that guy misses point entirely as well. Basically he doesn't know why women critic these pieces of art and what they would want. He thinks it's simply censorship cause female players are being so sensitive. He doesn't know how it feels when you play the game and only armor for your character is something skin-tight and revealing. When the only main female character in the game is wearing something stripper would, when her sexiness is portrayed as her main virtue. When there is this big huge cap between the way male characters and female characters have handled. He doesn't know why female players are against this, he just thinks they are out there to get him and get his work.

 

In general female players don't want everything censored and everything unsexy. What people want is equality. More female characters to match those male characters. More variety. More female characters who aren't sexy, since that's not all there is to woman. Not female characters in more revealing clothing than male characters. That author didn't even once state why the same armor covered up whole male character and was like steel bikini on female character and how it would make lot of female player to feel.

Where do live under rock. This why it is such big problem. "Female players" exactly want everything censored. Look at game Bayonetta scandal main character is offensive and must be changed. No AAA get unnoticed and must be changed to be inclusive and respect everyone.

 

Look what you write "how it would make lot of female player to feel." You sound like people I talk about. Someone make game and must think if s/he not hurt someone feelings.