1832 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

I read that and I think that guy misses point entirely as well. Basically he doesn't know why women critic these pieces of art and what they would want. He thinks it's simply censorship cause female players are being so sensitive. He doesn't know how it feels when you play the game and only armor for your character is something skin-tight and revealing. When the only main female character in the game is wearing something stripper would, when her sexiness is portrayed as her main virtue. When there is this big huge cap between the way male characters and female characters have handled. He doesn't know why female players are against this, he just thinks they are out there to get him and get his work.

 

In general female players don't want everything censored and everything unsexy. What people want is equality. More female characters to match those male characters. More variety. More female characters who aren't sexy, since that's not all there is to woman. Not female characters in more revealing clothing than male characters. That author didn't even once state why the same armor covered up whole male character and was like steel bikini on female character and how it would make lot of female player to feel.

 

I'm a male and I'm not a fan of the chainmail bikinis either. To me they look stupid rather than sexy, and I'd rather see characters of both genders wearing armor that looks like it would perform its intended function.

 

 

Having said that...male armor designs in RPGs often look just as ridiculous, but by going in the opposite direction. Male characters will be covered from head to toe in armor, but more often than not that armor is cartoonishly oversized. 

[Panda]

Where do live under rock. This why it is such big problem. "Female players" exactly want everything censored. Look at game Bayonetta scandal main character is offensive and must be changed. No AAA get unnoticed and must be changed to be inclusive and respect everyone.

 

Look what you write "how it would make lot of female player to feel." You sound like people I talk about. Someone make game and must think if s/he not hurt someone feelings. 

 

And basically, I think you are part of the problem I have ^^; Not wanting games to change more inclusive and equal, being against that I preserve as improvements and calling it self-cencor and being SJW's. The side who refuses to understand how lot of female gamers feel about female characters and why they are happy with changes that has been recently happening.

 

EDIT: So my point is that we are quite in different sides on these things ^^

[Panda]

I'm a male and I'm not a fan of the chainmail bikinis either. To me they look stupid rather than sexy, and I'd rather see characters of both genders wearing armor that looks like it would perform its intended function.

 

 

Having said that...male armor designs in RPGs often look just as ridiculous, but by going in the opposite direction. Male characters will be covered from head to toe in armor, but more often than not that armor is cartoonishly oversized. 

 

True, there is often overexeggerated armor like that for male characters. I think what I personally like is that game would keep it art style and provide both genders outfits and armors that are similar. If the art style is sexy and exaggerated, then go that way with both genders, if it's realistic armor then go that way. Or maybe provide choices in both ways if it still fits to game and include characters according that too. I'm just tired of seeing this huge cap in games over how female characters and male characters are dressed and I want that go away.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Again, why can't there be options so everyone can get what they want? 

[Terodil]

"Inclusive"? How is it inclusive if a game gets attacked for having a pretty protagonist? I see your point, and I see 9TailsFox's, but one thing is having options -- something which I've been fighting for ever since I started posting here -- and the other thing is removing options. Acceptance and tolerance works both ways; the way current shitstorms flow definitely seems to corroborate 9TailsFox's viewpoint. Just take that ad shitstorm in London as an example. Why can a beautiful woman not be accepted as just that? It's as if everybody who didn't live up to that -- clearly extraordinary and by no way representative -- degree of beauty wanted to pull her down to their own average. Look at how our discussions habitually go; whenever an NPC is described as beautiful, a lot of people sharing your position suddenly glaze over her personality, at least prima facie, reduce her to her looks, and suddenly we end up with that looks as the only attribute that matters when talking about 'representation'. Look at yourself, you likened a woman who simply dresses attractively, maybe even provocatively, to a 'stripper'... why? what does looks and clothing have to do with moral values? how is that inclusive? It's not. It's illogical, and in essence it's intolerant.

The funny thing is, this only seems to happen where beauty is concerned. A lot of people simply seem to forget or fail to understand entirely that beauty is just one attribute among many that make up what we are. We cannot all be Einsteins, yet do I run out into the street and vandalise those university posters that show smiling graduates in their robes and hats? I don't. Do I clamour for amazing musicians to make average music because I cannot hold a candle to their performances? of course not. Yet somehow it is okay for certain people to run out into the street and vandalise protein shake/fitness club ad posters because they show amazingly pretty women.

These shitstorms pressure companies and individuals to adopt mediocrity as the guideline, and to dump outstanding examples as 'not inclusive'. This is indeed self-censorship, and definitely does not make our world any better. IMO.

[KBomb]

Again, why can't there be options so everyone can get what they want?

I am in agreement. I completely support those who want more "realistic" armors and I completely understand where they're from. However, I don't want bulky armors for my female. Some people don't seem to see the difference between "bikini chainmail" and form-fitting armor that can still offer protection. I don't want bulk, yet I don't think every single piece of armor presented should form fitting. I would like to see both. I can't blame people who like "realistic" armor having a choice made for them, I don't want a choice being forced on me either.

[AresKeith]

I am in agreement. I completely support those who want more "realistic" armors and I completely understand where they're from. However, I don't want bulky armors for my female. Some people don't seem to see the difference between "bikini chainmail" and form-fitting armor that can still offer protection. I don't want bulk, yet I don't think every single piece of armor presented should form fitting. I would like to see both. I can't blame people who like "realistic" armor having a choice made for them, I don't want a choice being forced on me either.

 

I think they are referring to form-fitting armor instead of mainly bulky armor

[Scofield]

Again, why can't there be options so everyone can get what they want? 

Because there far to many ppl (on these forums) that love to do nothing but deride others for wanting something different from them and unfortunately the game designers are following that group in regards to this topic

[AresKeith]

Because there far to many ppl (on these forums) that love to do nothing but deride others for wanting something different from them and unfortunately the game designers are following that group in regards to this topic

 

It's not like those people are forcing Bioware to do it

[Panda]

Again, why can't there be options so everyone can get what they want? 

 

It doesn't always fit art style and style of game. The clothing is not always changeable and it could break character or world design.

[Terodil]

It's not like those people are forcing Bioware to do it

The Protein World folks beg to differ.

[Terodil]

It doesn't always fit art style and style of game. The clothing is not always changeable and it could break character or world design.

There have been a lot of examples posted already that break neither character, nor world design. So? Or do we really want to rewind this discussion back to page... 5ish?

[AresKeith]

The Protein World folks beg to differ.

 

Ok? 

[Han Shot First]

It doesn't always fit art style and style of game. The clothing is not always changeable and it could break character or world design.

 

I would argue that all armor should look like it performs its intended function. Some sex appeal is fine, just as long as that isn't achieved by characters wearing armor that leaves most of their torso exposed. At that point it would have ceased to be body armor.

 

The so-called boob armor doesn't bother me for that reason. A plate cuirass that mimics a woman's form might have some unnecessary cosmetic features, but it would still provide some basic protection. I'd class it along with the muscled cuirass. 

[AlanC9]

Again, why can't there be options so everyone can get what they want?

Hmm.. wouldn't that involve the devs making a bunch of outfits that don't match their vision for the game, just so players who don't like their vision can dress up their characters in a different look.? Or do only players who like the devs' vision get what they want? What's the limit here?

[Panda]

There have been a lot of examples posted already that break neither character, nor world design. So? Or do we really want to rewind this discussion back to page... 5ish?

 

In DA sense? I'm speaking in more broad picture here.

[XMissWooX]

I actually have a policy against buying games which feature covers like the one on the left - a man covered from neck to toe in sturdy armour while the woman is stuck in the ridiculous chainmail bikini. It doesn't exactly convey the message 'we respect your gender too!'
I remember seeing this game in a store a few weeks back, and naturally I dismissed it. If I ever see a copy sporting the cover on the right, I might reconsider buying it.

Also, we should bring back boobplate armour, and have it randomly appear on male NPCs.
Because that would be hilarious.

[Mihura]

I would argue that all armor should look like it performs its intended function. Some sex appeal is fine, just as long as that isn't achieved by characters wearing armor that leaves most of their torso exposed. At that point would have ceased to be body armor.

 

The so-called boob armor doesn't bother me for that reason. A plate cuirass that mimics a woman's form might have some unnecessary cosmetic features, but it would still provide some basic protection. I'd class it along with the muscled cuirass. 

 

This I disagree with with, large breasts do not work the same way. Boob plate is horrible and should not be in game. If you want something like Isabela sure, I am all for it. Boob plate is unrealistic in another whole level because it is not functional or comfortable. 

Armor should be the exactly same for female and male characters, that is fair. Unless they put a ridiculous codpiece and boob armor, that is another story.

[katling73]

I'm not a fan of the boob plate or the chainmail bikini but I could see a way that you could have them in the game and still maintain some reality. You just alter their stats. So for the boob plate, on every hit, there's a... say, 50% chance that the blow will be deflected by the boobplate and instantly kill the wearer. For the chainmail bikini, you'd up that chance to about 90% since there's so much skin on show. Then you can have your "aesthetic" armour but it would have an edge of realism about it.

[Junebug]

 

I feel very safe around you Thanks for writing how I (and most female gamers) feel about this so eloquently. *thumbs up for being a good ally*

 

"Boob armor" looks ridiculous, unrealistic, and is actually incredibly inhibiting. Plus, it's about time we got some nice-looking shiny heavy armor. I appreciate what Bioware did with it (light, medium, and heavy). Stuff I'd like to see more often as far as Heavy armor goes (in addition to what Bioware did):

 

Spoiler

 

(artist)

[SnakeCode]

I'm not a fan of the boob plate or the chainmail bikini but I could see a way that you could have them in the game and still maintain some reality. You just alter their stats. So for the boob plate, on every hit, there's a... say, 50% chance that the blow will be deflected by the boobplate and instantly kill the wearer. For the chainmail bikini, you'd up that chance to about 90% since there's so much skin on show. Then you can have your "aesthetic" armour but it would have an edge of realism about it.

I'd agree with this, but only if this was applied to everything. For y'know, muh realism. So mages wearing simple robes made of cloth should be one-shotted by archers and melee enemies. Same goes for Iron Bull, one hit instadeath, since he's basically naked.

[Terodil]

I'm not a fan of the boob plate or the chainmail bikini but I could see a way that you could have them in the game and still maintain some reality. You just alter their stats. So for the boob plate, on every hit, there's a... say, 50% chance that the blow will be deflected by the boobplate and instantly kill the wearer. For the chainmail bikini, you'd up that chance to about 90% since there's so much skin on show. Then you can have your "aesthetic" armour but it would have an edge of realism about it.

Haha. And every time an opponent attacks your character when s/he is not wearing a helmet, it's an insta-kill. Creative, but no thanks.

[Panda]

I would argue that all armor should look like it performs its intended function. Some sex appeal is fine, just as long as that isn't achieved by characters wearing armor that leaves most of their torso exposed. At that point would have ceased to be body armor.

 

The so-called boob armor doesn't bother me for that reason. A plate cuirass that mimics a woman's form might have some unnecessary cosmetic features, but it would still provide some basic protection. I'd class it along with the muscled cuirass. 

 

I think we have already some kind of this in DAI like Cassandra's. She has often armor that shows that she has boobs, but the boobs aren't still placed in metal cups. I think Meredith has something similar and this lady here: https://pmcvariety.f...001-1.jpg?w=670 (who I still keep linking way too much). I think metal shaped around boobs is better than defined boobcups. Though I'm not 100% against boob cups, but I don't think you can make them very realistical if that's style game is going for.

 

And I'm not against extravagant and sexy either as long as it's equal for both genders and I don't need to watch female characters in bikinis and male characters dressed up to face ice age.

 

I feel very safe around you Thanks for writing how I (and most female gamers) feel about this so eloquently. *thumbs up for being a good ally*

 

No problem, I do try though I don't always get it right ^^

[KBomb]

I'd agree with this, but only if this was applied to everything. For y'know, muh realism. So mages wearing simple robes made of cloth should be one-shotted by archers and melee enemies. Same goes for Iron Bull, one hit instadeath, since he's basically naked.

But doesn't Iron Bull get some protection from poison body paint? And mages can cast barriers. Rogues can turn invisible and can move really fast. Only warriors need to be for real reals.

[Junebug]

No problem, I do try though I don't always get it right ^^

It's okay. At least you're trying which is more than I can say for many