1832 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

IMO if Bioware wants to make an authentic fantasy RPG with realistic armor, then they should start the series that way from the FIRST GAME, not make a drastic change in the third installment.   You have to understand that Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age 2 were fantastical in nature.  They did not adhere to realism in regards to armor. 

 

Making such a huge change puts the game into the bait & switch category.

 

I'm all for realism, if the game series starts that way.  But you can't start with realism then go into fantasy in the third installment or vice versa.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

 

While the games are set in a fantasy universe, they aren't quite as fantastical as you paint them. Thedas has more in common with the Witcherverse or Westeros than it does Azeroth.

[Br3admax]

I have to hand it to you Vick, the way you can make people go off the rails is quite worthy of admiration. Ares in particular seems to become so incoherent s/he can only spam and post stupid pngs/gifs.

Actually, Ares is just normally like that. 

 

 

I'll just say that I agree, chainmail bikinis are terrible unless it kinda fits the world and everyone looks ridiculous (Final Fantasy i'm looking at you.) But how is it any different to say, Iron Bull? Realistically he'd die in every battle he fights in. Nobody is ever up in arms about topless male warriors in videogames though, and there's plenty of them.

 

This is why the realism/grounded/whatever argument needs to go. It isn't consistent and it's a ploy to make peoples arguments seem like they have more merit than if they had just said "I don't like it!" This isn't a matter of realism, it's a matter of taste. Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and admit that?

You won't see me cry a single tear for Bull needing to put a shirt on, however to be fair, he is from a different culture, one where plenty of his people dress just like him. Thedas proper doesn't have that many such people. 

[Panda]

I'll just say that I agree, chainmail bikinis are terrible unless it kinda fits the world and everyone looks ridiculous (Final Fantasy i'm looking at you.) But how is it any different to say, Iron Bull? Realistically he'd die in every battle he fights in. Nobody is ever up in arms about topless male warriors in videogames though, and there's plenty of them.

 

This is why the realism/grounded/whatever argument needs to go. It isn't consistent and it's a ploy to make peoples arguments seem like they have more merit than if they had just said "I don't like it!" This isn't a matter of realism, it's a matter of taste. Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and admit that?

 

Cause we disagree on things like Iron Bull's naked torso. I do think it's coherent to DA universe's lore and art style and there is reason his torso is covered of scars.

[AresKeith]

Actually, Ares is just normally like that.

It's the best way to reply to trolls

[9TailsFox]

I'll just say that I agree, chainmail bikinis are terrible unless it kinda fits the world and everyone looks ridiculous (Final Fantasy i'm looking at you.) But how is it any different to say, Iron Bull? Realistically he'd die in every battle he fights in. Nobody is ever up in arms about topless male warriors in videogames though.

 

This is why the realism/grounded/whatever argument needs to go. It isn't consistent and it's a ploy to make peoples arguments seem like they have more merit than if they had just said "I don't like it!" This isn't a matter of realism, it's a matter of taste. Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and admit that?

Because for some reason, I don't understand. I offended it hurts my feeling means something more then I don't like it. Which is exactly same think. If women have exactly same armour with boobs fall out we would have **** storm. And it's funny people ask same sexualised armour for male. It's impossible man don't have breasts.

 

[Panda]

Because for some reason, I don't understand. I offended it hurts my feeling means something more then I don't like it. Which is exactly same think. If women have exactly same armour with boobs fall out we would have **** storm. And it's funny people ask same sexualised armour for male. It's impossible man don't have breasts.

 

 

That is male version of the armor. Female version is revealing as well, but it doesn't show off whole boobs of cource.

 

This is female version:

 

 

(I don't think it's exactly same robe, but there is many similar with different colors and stats).

[SnakeCode]

Cause we disagree on things like Iron Bull's naked torso. I do think it's coherent to DA universe's lore and art style and there is reason his torso is covered of scars.

 

 

So you would be fine if the devs wrote into the lore a culture of people, who have female warriors that wear boob plate/chainmail bikinis, and a cultural reason for doing so?

 

Something tells me you wouldn't be.

[Malthier]

 You can't fight for women's rights and call other women sluts for exercising those rights, which clearly includes making the choice what to wear. 

 

I've read this whole stupid thread and no one did that, especially not the poster you're replying to

 

 

Forcing all women to wear the Niqab is not emancipation.

 

Also never suggested

[KaiserShep]

 Is it the armors, or is it your (perceived or real) reaction towards them?

Armor is just armor. The interpretation and 'moral' evaluation only happens in the heads of the onlookers. You can call an armor set slutty, but the armor set isn't, and quite probably the wearer isn't either.

This really gets my goat all the time and makes me slightly angry. You can't fight for women's rights and call other women sluts for exercising those rights, which clearly includes making the choice what to wear. Forcing all women to wear the Niqab is not emancipation.

 

I'm not entirely certain what part of this is in response to me, but I will say that if reactions are made for armors in-game, then the devs themselves automatically place a certain value on them. Thinking about it, this kind of happens with Miranda's outfit in ME2. The one and only character I can recall making a comment about it, goes so far as to ask if she goes whoring around in it.

[Panda]

So you would be fine if the devs wrote into the lore a culture of people, who have female warriors that wear boob plate/chainmail bikinis, and a cultural reason for doing so?

 

Something tells me you wouldn't be.

 

Boob plate/chainmail bikini doesn't really fit, it should be something more barbaric style. Big muscular qunari lady covered with battle scars and wearing something similar than Iron Bull would be nice. Though I doubt people like Not-Brevnau would be happy about her either, since they are against females with scars and they might still think she's too ugly and manly despite her wearing revealing clothing.

[SnakeCode]

Boob plate/chainmail bikini doesn't really fit, it should be something more barbaric style. Big muscular qunari lady covered with battle scars and wearing something similar than Iron Bull would be nice. Though I doubt people like Not-Brevnau would be happy about her either, since they are against females with scars and they might still think she's too ugly and manly despite her wearing revealing clothing.

 

Yup, thought so.

 

It's entirely your subjective opinion that it doesn't fit, they could move to a new continent where the rules and customs of Thedas don't apply. Not to mention boob plate was actually a thing in Dragon Age: Origins, so to say it doesn't fit the setting is silly. There's already a precedent for it.

[VickVeel]

Boob plate/chainmail bikini doesn't really fit, it should be something more barbaric style. Big muscular qunari lady covered with battle scars and wearing something similar than Iron Bull would be nice. Though I doubt people like Not-Brevnau would be happy about her either, since they are against females with scars and they might still think she's too ugly and manly despite her wearing revealing clothing.

 

To be honest, one could design two kinds of female qunari fighters... Avelina/Cassandra style or Isabela style?  One looks mannish, the other feminine.

 

If a women has a drop dead gorgeous body, but ugly face, I can deal with that.   The problem is Cassandra has the face of a man and the body of a man.

[Han Shot First]

I'll just say that I agree, chainmail bikinis are terrible unless it kinda fits the world and everyone looks ridiculous (Final Fantasy i'm looking at you.) But how is it any different to say, Iron Bull? Realistically he'd die in every battle he fights in. Nobody is ever up in arms about topless male warriors in videogames though, and there's plenty of them.

 

This is why the realism/grounded/whatever argument needs to go. It isn't consistent and it's a ploy to make peoples arguments seem like they have more merit than if they had just said "I don't like it!" This isn't a matter of realism, it's a matter of taste. Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and admit that?

 

I'd prefer the Qunari wore armor as well. Being the dominant military power in Thedas doesn't make much sense if you are going into battles like the Gaesatae against heavily armored foes. I'd have less a problem with it if the Qunari were more like the Avvar, and were little more than barbarians. That isn't the case however, and we are told that the Qunari are the most technologically advanced faction. Having unarmored warriors doesn't mesh with the way the faction is described.

 

Just because the Iron Bull or the Qunari haven't been mentioned, doesn't necessarily mean that people approve of their character design and are being hypocrits in being opposed to chainmail bikinis. I haven't mentioned IB in this thread because the topic is specifically about certain types of armor worn by female characters.

 

I'd rather the next game start with all armor designs seeming to perform their intended function, and after achieving that adding the personal touches or artistic flourishes that reflect individual character's personalities.

[Terodil]

The one and only character I can recall making a comment about it, goes so far as to ask if she goes whoring around in it.

TBH that says a lot more about yourself and your understanding of tolerance than about the BW creators.

@Malthier: Yes they did. They called outfits or women wearing those outfits slutty, and that is just the hypocrisy I'm criticising.

[KaiserShep]

TBH that says a lot more about yourself and your understanding of tolerance than about the BW creators.

@Malthier: Yes they did. They called outfits or women wearing those outfits slutty, and that is just the hypocrisy I'm criticising.

 

So I'm a hypocrite now? Interesting. I was simply making an example with regard to NPC reactions to body armor. If there's to be any reaction at all, then NPC's have to have some sort of opinion one way or the other, either by objecting, or having more suggestive, aggressive or otherwise comments, a suggestion I made particularly because of the focus on this chainmail bikini bullshit. A player can interpret the armor themselves any way they like, but how the game itself sets it up may skew that.

[Panda]

Yup, thought so.

 

It's entirely your subjective opinion that it doesn't fit, they could move to a new continent where the rules and customs of Thedas don't apply. Not to mention boob plate was actually  a thing in Dragon Age: Origind, so to say it doesn't fit the setting is silly. There's already a precedent for it.

 

 

This is one of Bioware's interpretations of qunari clothing for female qunari, I don't think steel bikini would fit to style they have gone for qunaris.  Boob plate wasn't thing in DAO for female qunari, it might work depending how it's fitted to qunari style.

 

To be honest, one could design two kinds of female qunari fighters... Avelina/Cassandra style or Isabela style?  One looks mannish, the other feminine.

 

Regardless of class qunari seem to be quite big and more muscular than human females.

[SnakeCode]

 

I'd prefer the Qunari wore armor as well. Being the dominant military power in Thedas doesn't make much sense if you are going into battles like the Gaesatae against heavily armored foes.

 

Just because the Iron Bull or the Qunari haven't been mentioned, doesn't necessarily mean that people approve of their character design and are being hypocrits in being opposed to chainmail bikinis. I haven't mentioned IB in this thread because the topic is specifically about certain types of armor worn by female characters.

 

I'd rather the next game start with all armor designs seeming to perform their intended function, and after achieving that adding the personal touches or artistic flourishes that reflect individual character's personalities.

 

There have been plenty of posters defending IB/The Qunari battle attire in this thread, that's why I mentioned him specifically. Saying things like "Oh, but he's from a different culture" as though that's the only justification needed. That's fine, it's a fair argument. It does become something akin to hypocrisy when those wouldn't accept the different culture excuse for a group of female warriors being half naked.

 

All i'm asking for is a little consistency, and for people to stop hiding behind the realism argument, it just doesn't apply here.

[KaiserShep]

Culture shmulture. Iron Bull's torso is like 3 people strapped together, but I do prefer to use a fuller armor, though finding decent mats that do this is kind of a pain in the ass.

[Terodil]

So I'm a hypocrite now? Interesting. I was simply making an example with regard to NPC reactions to body armor. If there's to be any reaction at all, then NPC's have to have some sort of opinion one way or the other, either by objecting, or having more suggestive, aggressive or otherwise comments, a suggestion I made particularly because of the focus on this chainmail bikini bullshit. A player can interpret the armor themselves any way they like, but how the game itself sets it up may skew that.

Didn't you bring up the idea of having the armor sets 'judged' and commented on by passers-by? Why would they have to be?

Why can a (m/f) warrior not be accepted as-is, without others feeling the ridiculous need to somehow a- infer/assume moral values/other qualities and b- judge for these imaginary values?

Miranda is not slutty (I think you used the words '****** around' in this context). If you can't respect her for what she is, then the problem is on your end, not on hers. Just like IRL.

[KaiserShep]

Didn't you bring up the idea of having the armor sets 'judged' and commented on by passers-by? Why would they have to be?

Why can a (m/f) warrior not be accepted as-is, without others feeling the ridiculous need to somehow a- infer/assume moral values/other qualities and b- judge for these imaginary values?

Miranda is not slutty (I think you used the words '****** around' in this context). If you can't respect her for what she is, then the problem is on your end, not on hers. Just like IRL.

 

Did you actually read the thread? I was responding to someone else who brought up the subject and suggested ways it might possibly work, but certainly did not endorse it, as I said that it probably would not work well and players would probably not like it at all, with the only real exceptions being something like the Crest of Mercy, which did work.

 

And I never said that Miranda was slutty, and I certainly don't believe that she is. What I did say was that the sole reaction to her outfit was negative. This ties into that subject, as the same principle would apply to NPC reactions to armor we equip, and why I don't believe it would really work out.

[Terodil]

Did you actually read the thread? I was responding to someone else who brought up the subject and suggested ways it might possibly work, but certainly did not endorse it, as I said that it probably would not work well and players would probably not like it at all.

So you were playing the devil's advocate, I see. Fair enough, you got me there.

Still the underlying idea is a bad one. Combat penalties I could borderline accept (as long as they aren't ridiculous; like in other games (or actually, unmodded DA:O!), the helmet would contribute a little armor rating, so taking it off would be an obvious disadvantage but still handle-able), but judging NPCs? no. That would not just perpetuate, but actually reinforce the bad habit of people failing to accept each other for what they are.

[KBomb]

Didn't you bring up the idea of having the armor sets 'judged' and commented on by passers-by? Why would they have to be?

Why can a (m/f) warrior not be accepted as-is, without others feeling the ridiculous need to somehow a- infer/assume moral values/other qualities and b- judge for these imaginary values?

Miranda is not slutty (I think you used the words '****** around' in this context). If you can't respect her for what she is, then the problem is on your end, not on hers. Just like IRL.

I absolutely loathe when people call clothing or armor-- or anything, really-- Slutty, strippery or whorish. Especially when the discussion surrounds armor, clothing, etc that claims to degrade or objectify women and then in the same breath, use those adjectives. Just leaves a horrid taste.

Disclaimer: This is in no way directed toward anyone. Just an observation on those words.

[SnakeCode]

I absolutely loathe when people call clothing or armor-- or anything, really-- Slutty, strippery or whorish. Especially when the discussion surrounds armor, clothing, etc that claims to degrade or objectify women and then in the same breath, use those adjectives. Just leaves a horrid taste.

Disclaimer: This is in no way directed toward anyone. Just an observation on those words.

 

In my experience the people who constantly complain about "**** shaming" tend to be the most frequent perpetrators of it.

[Panda]

So now it's trend to misunderstand on purpose what people say so you can easily dismish their opinion by putting words on their mouths. Pretty good tactic, really ^^

[In Exile]

This has to be a troll account.

This wasn't immediately obvious?