1832 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

WoW armor is ridiculous. I'm not sure how that crapola even makes its way into this discussion.

[Seraphim24]

 
WoW armor looks bad because it tends to be overstyled technicolor vomit, which seems to be the opposite of your misgivings with Cassandra's look.
 
Color is changeable in-game, making that less of an issue since the player will be able to customize that according to their own tastes, though I'm sure many prefer a muted or darker palette for her.
The eye thing I completely disagree with. Seekers/Inquisition have a cool logo. Definitely not something I would consider objective.
 
Do you think Cassandra would look better wearing something like this?
 

Spoiler

 

Whoa I think she might look kind of awesome in that... at least the basic idea as long as it was re-formed for the female body, probably add in some color, etc. I don't know about the helm though personally...

 

Personally I'd probably want to make it just more revealing in the vein of the original OP but... I suspect that wouldn't go over well with a lot of people. The basic concept though is definitely more interesting to me.

 

 

WoW armor is ridiculous. I'm not sure how that crapola even makes its way into this discussion.

 

At times it's pretty cool IMO, such as the classic Paladin T2

 

[Terodil]

WoW armor is ridiculous.

I think you misspelt 'awesome'.



So badass. Also makes me pine for a 'dark' inquisition again, siiiiiigh.

(P.S. This post is quite tongue-in-cheek, a lot of WoW armor really does look like crap, especially those bloody tincan designs that are horrible for all characters, but especially so for males.)

[Grieving Natashina]

I think you misspelt 'awesome'.

<snip>

So badass. Also makes me pine for a 'dark' inquisition again, siiiiiigh.

(P.S. This post is quite tongue-in-cheek, a lot of WoW armor really does look like crap, especially those bloody tincan designs that are horrible for all characters, but especially so for males.)

That's almost cheating.  That's the early Death Knight armor you accquire while you're still in Western Plaguelands and it is awesome.     Many of the rest do look like a rainbow threw up all over it with oversized spiky shoulder pads. 

[Han Shot First]

Most WoW armors look like something created by a 6 year old with a box of crayons.

[Milan92]

I think Iron Bull gives a very good lesson regarding boob armor.

 

"Some high-ranking women wear ornamental crap with ****** hammered into it. One good shot, and all that cleavage gets knocked right into the sternum. Real messy. Good on you for going practical."

[Terodil]

Oh the pain of TBC

[Terodil]

I think Iron Bull gives a very good lesson regarding boob armor.
 
"Some high-ranking women wear ornamental crap with ****** hammered into it. One good shot, and all that cleavage gets knocked right into the sternum. Real messy. Good on you for going practical."

Yeah. We've seen that quote about a hundred times now. The quote from the guy who goes into battle practically naked feeling the need to comment on how women should dress when they head into battle. If I was Cassie I'd just tell him to mind his own stinking business.

[Milan92]

Yeah. We've seen that quote about a hundred times now. The quote from the guy who goes into battle practically naked feeling the need to comment on how women should dress when they head into battle. If I was Cassie I'd just tell him to mind his own stinking business.

 

Eh, he was complimenting her?

[SardaukarElite]

The quote from the guy who goes into battle practically naked feeling the need to comment on how women should dress when they head into battle. If I was Cassie I'd just tell him to mind his own stinking business.

 

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't Bull's shirtless iconic look what he wears when he has no armour equipped? In my last game he's wearing more metal than Cas ever could. Is there some armour appearances which still use his no shirt or what?

 

Also, there's a world of difference between no armour and impractical armour. Not wearing armour just means you don't have that protection, a boob plate could very well amplify the effects of being hit, if it was particularly badly designed.

[Terodil]

He's a chauvinist hypocrite in this particular instance. He judges women (Cassie positively, other 'high ranking women' negatively) for (not) adhering to a standard he himself does not take in any way seriously. Why? because IB comes with 'awesome' stamped onto his manly chest and women need the extra layer of protection? This just stinks from start to finish.

Edit @Sardaukar: That's a lot of 'if'. In other words: Any armor, if particularly badly designed, can inhibit or injure, that doesn't hinge on boob cups. Other than that, I am not 100% sure. I seem to remember my IB running into battle more or less like whatever god made him, but then I didn't use him that much because he kept dying all the time. I wonder why.

Edit 2: Reworded, hope nobody has been answering yet; @Sardaukar: my first iteration of this post was slightly off, apologies

[philippe willaume]

Hello to be honest i don't thing the OP is after mail bikini or short skirt plate Armour (for à la Fast and Furious N up skirt shots).

 

Bust basically boobs Armour kind of break the immersion.

it really has no practicalities and kind of detract of the tank function

 

As well on the moral point of view, whist I am not and never was adverse to bosom and bottom exposure, but nonetheless i can't help to find that boobs in heavy Armour leans to much on the objectification and sexism side to be palatable.

 

phil

[Seraphim24]

That's almost cheating.  That's the early Death Knight armor you accquire while you're still in Western Plaguelands and it is awesome.     Many of the rest do look like a rainbow threw up all over it with oversized spiky shoulder pads. 

 

I think you mean.. Eastern Plaguelands!    but yeah I liked the DK armor(s) also well enough...

[philippe willaume]

He's a chauvinist hypocrite in this particular instance. He judges women (Cassie positively, other 'high ranking women' negatively) for (not) adhering to a standard he himself does not take in any way seriously. Why? because IB comes with 'awesome' stamped onto his manly chest and women need the extra layer of protection? This just stinks from start to finish.

Edit @Sardaukar: That's a lot of 'if'. In other words: Any armor, if particularly badly designed, can inhibit or injure, that doesn't hinge on boob cups. Other than that, I am not 100% sure. I seem to remember my IB running into battle more or less like whatever god made him, but then I didn't use him that much because he kept dying all the time. I wonder why.

Edit 2: Reworded, hope nobody has been answering yet; @Sardaukar: my first iteration of this post was slightly off, apologies

 

i think Sardaukar: meant that Armour shape is designed to minimize the purchases of the a blow as much as stopping it. (ie Italian armors shape) or design to guide the blow away and increase the effective thickness  (late 15th cent German fluted armor)

phil 

[SardaukarElite]

Edit @Sardaukar: That's a lot of 'if'. In other words: Any armor, if particularly badly designed, can inhibit or injure, that doesn't hinge on boob cups. Other than that, I am not 100% sure. I seem to remember my IB running into battle more or less like whatever god made him, but then I didn't use him that much because he kept dying all the time. I wonder why.

 

This is a particular flaw with the fantasy boob plate. Ideally you want to slope armour away from the body, so that a blow slides off it and most of the energy is lost. Having two cones on your front provides the opposite of that, a blow to the font would get caught between them and all the energy would be transferred into the sternum.

 

Now most armour designs in fantasy aren't realistic, so I'm not exactly bothered by it beyond my general preference for realism over exaggeration - I'd put it in the same category as giant pauldrons. But plenty of combatants have gone into battle without armour (for any number of practical reasons) so Bull not wearing armour isn't in and off itself unrealistic.

 

On the other hand I think drawing attention to how unrealistic other fiction is in your work of fiction isn't particularly funny or insightful.

[Terodil]

A lot of fantasy armors have nooks and crannies that can catch blows and are potentially dangerous, by that reasoning. Hell, armors in reality have a lot of nooks and crannies that can catch blows and are potentially dangerous.



would be ideal from a protective point of view (with a demispherical lid on top ofc). Dealing damage could be *sniff* problematic, but maybe Inquisition engineers can fit a tiny catapult on top of that thing.

Also, if we accept IB as a front line warrior being fine wearing more or less nothing, for equality's sake, we should also be fine with female front line warriors wearing practically nothing, e.g. a chainmail bikini which, as we have by now established, has no protective value whatsoever, and is quite flexible.

Ultimately I really agree with your last sentence. This whole 'realism' argument leads us nowhere, we've been running in circles for the last 15 pages.

[philippe willaume]

well it kind of is. 

 

Now most armour designs in fantasy aren't realistic, so I'm not exactly bothered by it beyond my general preference for realism over exaggeration - I'd put it in the same category as giant pauldrons. But plenty of combatants have gone into battle without armour (for any number of practical reasons) so Bull not wearing armour isn't in and off itself unrealistic.

 

On the other hand I think drawing attention to how unrealistic other fiction is in your work of fiction isn't particularly funny or insightful.

 

well IB is the Conan, Warhammer witches elves in a class based system effect.

In a game where class dictates what you can wear and what you can do. You will have two choices to represent light armored warriors

Either they fall into the rogue/ranger category IE light armour but then it might not work as the concept of the character. 

 

or it is a tank class and you equip him with heavy Armour  but it shows to his "iconic" armor which does not look like plate but gamewise it works like full plate

So Witch elves or Conan  would be rendered in their usual skimpy outfit. IE something that looks like beach outfit but works like full plate (ie Like IB).

With a little disregard to the class system,we have a tank the looks as if it was wearing light or no Armour.

 

 

PS 

If it is a one to one hand to hand combat on and we wear a shirt and our opponent wears plate, in 99% of the case, we are screwed.

(unless we have created a situation where the armored guy has a much reduced used of his body

The guy in plate just has to use his armored arm to deflect our blow and thrust or but at any part or our body (the deflection with the arm is part of the LIchtanauer tradition). to defeat him we need to hit is un-plated part (usually protected by mail) we enough strength to burst the links and fencing armoured vs armoured is just about that.....

so as you can see it does not look too good for us.   

[Han Shot First]

This is a particular flaw with the fantasy boob plate. Ideally you want to slope armour away from the body, so that a blow slides off it and most of the energy is lost. Having two cones on your front provides the opposite of that, a blow to the font would get caught between them and all the energy would be transferred into the sternum.

 

Now most armour designs in fantasy aren't realistic, so I'm not exactly bothered by it beyond my general preference for realism over exaggeration - I'd put it in the same category as giant pauldrons. But plenty of combatants have gone into battle without armour (for any number of practical reasons) so Bull not wearing armour isn't in and off itself unrealistic.

 

On the other hand I think drawing attention to how unrealistic other fiction is in your work of fiction isn't particularly funny or insightful.

 

I think the dangers posed by that sort of armor design are somewhat exaggerated. It would protect just as well against swords or pikes as a standard breastplate. Weapons that inflict damage via blunt force would be an issue, but then taking a hit to the chest with a war hammer is going to put you in a world of hurt no matter what you are wearing. Also the 'boob plate' would provide more protection than chain, leather, or padded armor.

[SardaukarElite]

A lot of fantasy armors have nooks and crannies that can catch blows and are potentially dangerous, by that reasoning. Hell, armors in reality have a lot of nooks and crannies that can catch blows and are potentially dangerous.

 

They don't normally have a large blow catcher pointed at the sternum though. But yeah sure. Like I said I would put it in the same category as ridiculous shoulders, or spikes or whatever. But that's the point Bull was making.

 

I don't think the game has realistic enough armour to make that joke, and if it did the joke would be out of place, but I don't think it's an outrageous double standard for an unarmoured Bull to make the quip.

 

Also, if we accept IB as a front line warrior being fine wearing more or less nothing, for equality's sake, we should also be fine with female front line warriors wearing practically nothing, e.g. a chainmail bikini which, as we have by now established, has no protective value whatsoever, and is quite flexible.

 

The thing here is that you're rolling a complex thing into a single issue. I don't have a problem with women warriors showing skin. I wouldn't have a problem with a female Bull wearing basically the same clothing - assuming she had something securing her breasts and had some muscles. I would have a problem with Cas wearing an equivalent because Cas is supposed to be wear gear typical of Andrastrian fighters which has been shown to be pretty covering.

 

I object to what I refer to as chainmail bikinis because the chainmail part of the equation serves no purpose and because that style of armour isn't just revealing skin but actually looks like its falling off.

 

I also think there is a problem with the idea that women always need to be sexy, but DA clearly hasn't fallen for that one. So kudos to BioWare.

 

 

 

I think the dangers posed by that sort of armor design are somewhat exaggerated. It would protect just as well against swords or pikes as a standard breastplate. Weapons that inflict damage via blunt force would be an issue, but then taking a hit to the chest with a war hammer is going to put you in a world of hurt no matter what you are wearing. Also the 'boob plate' would provide more protection than chain, leather, or padded armor.

 

Well I think it depends a lot on how exaggerated a plate we're talking about but I can see your point.

 

However, breastplates I've seen tend to be sloped the other way they have a still quite feminine looking bust but it has a peak in the centre rather than a division. Which I assume is probably easier to make, more comfortable and works better. 

[KBomb]

They don't normally have a large blow catcher pointed at the sternum though. But yeah sure. Like I said I would put it in the same category as ridiculous shoulders, or spikes or whatever. But that's the point Bull was making.

I don't think the game has realistic enough armour to make that joke, and if it did the joke would be out of place, but I don't think it's an outrageous double standard for an unarmoured Bull to make the quip.


The thing here is that you're rolling a complex thing into a single issue. I don't have a problem with women warriors showing skin. I wouldn't have a problem with a female Bull wearing basically the same clothing - assuming she had something securing her breasts and had some muscles. I would have a problem with Cas wearing an equivalent because Cas is supposed to be wear gear typical of Andrastrian fighters which has been shown to be pretty covering.

I object to what I refer to as chainmail bikinis because the chainmail part of the equation serves no purpose and because that style of armour isn't just revealing skin but actually looks like its falling off.

I also think there is a problem with the idea that women always need to be sexy, but DA clearly hasn't fallen for that one. So kudos to BioWare.




Well I think it depends a lot on how exaggerated a plate we're talking about but I can see your point.

However, breastplates I've seen tend to be sloped the other way they have a still quite feminine looking bust but it has a peak in the centre rather than a division. Which I assume is probably easier to make, more comfortable and works better.

Warriors generate guard. Guard has to be completely broken before armor begins to absorb any damage. The boob plate would still offer protection and coupled with guard and barrier from your mage support, it would provide sufficient protection. Unless your warrior just stands there and allows themselves to be pummeled over and over without any defensive.

[Wulfram]

Armour absorbs damage with guard. Not that guard exists outside of being a gameplay abstraction.

[SnakeCode]

Eh, he was complimenting her?

 

Yes, but it's just silly. The point Terodil was making is how absurd it is that Iron Bull is complimenting Cassandra for dressing so practically going into battle, when he himself goes into battle almost naked. That's about as impractical as it gets, your bare skin offers a heck of a lot less protection than boob plate would. He (like everyone else) also completely ignores that the lack of a helmet is far more likely to result in death than impractical armor. Granted, this is possiblly because the player can equip the party with headgear if they so choose.

 

I realise that IB is likely a mouthpiece for the devs at that point (and a tip of the hat to the fanbase) but it was moronic to say those words through that character of all people. It's also reinforcing this pattern that it's seemingly ok to have half naked men all over the place but to have half naked women is bad. 

[KBomb]

Armour absorbs damage with guard. Not that guard exists outside of being a gameplay abstraction.

Guard still acts as an additional health--guarding you from taking damage until it depletes and by adding it with On Hit, it can last throughout a skirmish.

 

Guard does not exist in real life, of course, but that isn't what should be taken into account. What should be taken into account is what fits within the world of the game. Dragon Age isn't a real life medieval simulator. People argue that it's within a suspension of belief for mages to wear cloth because they can cast a barrier. They argue that rogues can wear thin armors because they are swift and stealthy. All I am saying is that if those things are accepted because of in-game mechanics, so should guard be taken into account, as well. It guards you from taking damage temporarily, as with barrier.

 

Can't have it both ways. You can't state impractical armor such as cloth is considered believable because of barriers, then discredit another armor for being impractical and unbelievable when it carries the same protection. I get that warriors are on the front lines, but mages are certainly one of the first things you'd want to remove from a battlefield. 

 

 

 

SnakeCode, on 04 May 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yes, but it's just silly. The point Terodil was making is how absurd it is that Iron Bull is complimenting Cassandra for dressing so practically going into battle, when he himself goes into battle almost naked. That's about as impractical as it gets, your bare skin offers a heck of a lot less protection than boob plate would. He (like everyone else) also completely ignores that the lack of a helmet is far more likely to result in death than impractical armor. Granted, this is possiblly because the player can equip the party with headgear if they so choose.

I realise that IB is likely a mouthpiece for the devs at that point (and a tip of the hat to the fanbase) but it was moronic to say those words through that character of all people. It's also reinforcing this pattern that it's seemingly ok to have half naked men all over the place but to have half naked women is bad.

 

Personally, I feel that people are taking the Iron Bull statement too seriously. A lot of the banters are kick backs to things argued on the forums. I believe that is all it was to it. Especially considering it came from him--the warrior who wears bareskin on the battlefield. 

[SardaukarElite]

Warriors generate guard. Guard has to be completely broken before armor begins to absorb any damage. The boob plate would still offer protection and coupled with guard and barrier from your mage support, it would provide sufficient protection. Unless your warrior just stands there and allows themselves to be pummeled over and over without any defensive.

 

Yeah and in real life someone with a sword can parry. That one has any number of additional defences isn't the point, the issue is that the armour has a flaw which runs against its purpose as armour.

 

But it's not a big deal, I mostly brought it up in passing. Most video game armour is stupid, male armour rarely looks like real male armour does.

[KBomb]

SardaukarElite, on 04 May 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Yeah and in real life someone with a sword can parry. That one has any number of additional defences isn't the point, the issue is that the armour has a flaw which runs against its purpose as armour.

But it's not a big deal, I mostly brought it up in passing. Most video game armour is stupid, male armour rarely looks like real male armour does.

 

This isn't real life, however. Mage armor has many, many flaws. Especially Vivienne's default armor and Sera and Varric's too. I am not sure Sera or Vivienne's can even be considered as armor, it has absolutely no purpose. Most of the helms would not be worn into battle, but look as though they are used for jousting--which really didn't require a broad peripheral range. Enormous pauldrons would be most impractical in those regards, too. 

 

 

That is what fantasy games do. Blend a mixture of real with artistic license. There is a limit and should be a limit, I agree, but this type of armor has been established in this world already and it isn't revealing or flimsy. It's scale, chain or plate armor that would still offer adequate protection--especially coupled with in-game enhancers. 

 

I don't really care if Bioware adds it or not--I do wish they'd add more options, as I feel the variety is quite lacking--but that's another thing. I just think there isn't anything about this armor that is so outrageous that it should be banned or reviled or compared with bikini armor. It would be an option. It would be like someone requesting a return of the Champion armor from DAII. Just an "Oh, I liked that armor. I wish they'd consider bringing it back." Instead, people are acting as though a petition is going up for Bioware to not only make this armor return, but to force every single NPC, companion and PC wear it.