I wouldn't say I'm "fine" with Ash and Liara's or FemShep's armors. Just that they are somewhat less blatant about the look. Honestly, I find Cassandra's and Aveline's looks refreshing in their lack of "Look! BOOBS!" appearance. For years I've been saying outfits can be both practical and stylish in appearance.
Well you won't get any arguments from me, i am in no boobs Armour camp. :-)
Again with the physics, we are in a fantasy world.
Thedas is not Wonderland or even Narnia - it is a fantasy world that still strongly resembles ours in many respects. I mean, even if characters (like Iron Bull or Vivienne) make comment about practicality of armor, it means that it applies to the world of Thedas, just like it would apply to ours.
To put it simply - it's canon.
Uh, after all these threads here getting locked left and right exactly due to that rage, do you believe that would go over without a shitstorm? I have confidence in my prediction. It's based on observation of what's happening here on BSN every single day.
@Iakus: I loved Ash's/Liara's/Femshep's armor, but the boobs always struck me as a tad too large. *shrugs*
No, I just don't believe that the storm would as biblical as you claim. People here are raging about the choice of Frostbite as an engine, something that 90% of them don't have the technical knowledge to form a coherent thought about. People rage about the quality of the game, about people who like the game, about people who don't like the game, about EA, about BioWare not sticking to its roots about BioWare sticking to its roots too much. People rage about paid DLC, about day one DLC, about games not being finished, about games being too buggy.
The internet lets you sample opinions on bulk, and if you listen to the mob all you will hear is shouting.
BioWare listens to some things, and not to others. Morrigan still wears a string bikini on a snowy mountain, the combat is still too actiony and not actiony enough.
"Don't bring in physics in a fantasy game." "Blah blah blah, always with the impractical comment." Yep. Because if we have magical boob physics that keep them that pert and in place no matter what you're wearing, I want to live in this place too. My comment had nothing to do with the protection of said scraps of cloth, but that boobs are always gonna be boobs. They aren't going to sit nice and still when you're bouncing about. Fantasy world or not. Argue about the practicality of boob plate if you want, but don't argue that boobs will behave in a way they just cannot. A sports bra would have given the same impression while still looking like her nipples wouldn't be waving hello inside of five minutes. Or perhaps that's meant to be used as "distraction?" 
But really, I thought the priests are the ones who raise kids and weren't fighters? 
Seriously, though, there's a plethora of other games that pull the bikini armour schtick to keep a few men happy.
Dragon Age is just not one of those games, I guess...
Again with the physics, we are in a fantasy world.
If we want to truly get all realistic then women wouldn't even be effective warriors due to the disparity in strength, speed, stamina any any number of factors between them and their male counterparts. Suggest that female warriors deal less damage and absorb a lot less before they die however, and then realism becomes a dirty word.
)
Oh god, I remember reading the threads full of people complaining about how she was dressed back when the comic was first released. There's absolutely no chance that Qunari women will be scantily clad when/if they start to appear regularly in the games. Like I said in another thread, consistency comes second to the fanbase's reactions. Rassan is "offensive" even though half naked male Qunari are not.
<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>
Well, I hope we won't see Puritan sartorial choices imposed on our characters. Personally I see nothing wrong with the artist's interpretation of Rassan and I welcome most artwork from graphic novels.
But, games developed for the "broad market" will be sanitized, scrubbed and whitewashed with bleach.... so sad.. 
But then again to me all this simply doesn't matter. I don't want game population to be 100% realistic either, just like I don't want armor and weaponry to be 100% realistic. If I want to make a female frontline warrior, then I will and don't care about statistics or probabilities. If I look at armies fighting on the battlefield, I prefer having more or less equal representation than the more realistic 90-10 or even 100-0 split. Which is just our common point: Realism just shouldn't be overdone. It's good to leave it at the door sometimes.
What also shouldn't be overdone is going in another direction - and boob plate armor is simply a bonkers concept. It also does't matter if women are slightly stronger than IRL, considering that many times they have to directly take hits from DRAGONS, among other things.
I also have to ask... do many guys just lack imagination, that they have to see boobs and curves accentuated on a woman to ridiculous extent? Really, it's sad to think that might be the case.
[...] if we have magical boob physics that keep them that pert and in place no matter what you're wearing, I want to live in this place too. My comment had nothing to do with the protection of said scraps of cloth, but that boobs are always gonna be boobs. They aren't going to sit nice and still when you're bouncing about. Fantasy world or not.
I also have to ask... do many guys just lack imagination, that they have to see boobs and curves accentuated on a woman to ridiculous extent? Really, it's sad to think that might be the case.
Fantasy land is a wonderful place. For example, you don't (usually) get exhausted, you are stronger than in reality, you can fling spells. You can fight without a helmet on, though in reality that would be a death sentence. You don't need to go to the toilet, and men don't need to worry about feeling uncomfortable because their pants squeeze stuff they shouldn't.
So tell me: what makes boobs so fundamentally different from all these other instances where suspending disbelief comes easy?
And yet people have asked more than once why there are no toilets in Skyhold. 
It's not about realism, it's about being able to relate. I possess breasts. I know how they work and what I can and can't wear with them. Seeing a woman dressed in what amounts to a braided strip of tooth floss bouncing around and doing all sorts of nifty combat maneuvers with her perfectly static breasts would make me roll my eyes and snort - and in that moment I would feel removed from the character and from the game world. I would not feel like women are considered real. This isn't some sort of "woe is me and my slighted gender" feeling, but one that would leave me feeling odd in a way I might not be able to articulate without thinking on how to phrase it.
I think a lot of the time when people ask for realism in a fantasy game they really do mean relatable. You have to be able to form some connection with the characters and world or else you will be bored and unsatisfied. Some women would be absolutely fine with static breasts and skimpy/sexy armor, and that's why the option can be made available for them. Others are tired of that being all we've had to deal with, and the feeling of not really getting to engage with the game/story/world. You do have to make a lot of allowances for fantasy, but there still needs to be enough in place for us to recognize.
Yeah, but then some will press the whole "Iron Bull can be shirtless while in Emprise du Lion and he doesn't complain" deal.
...See what I mean?
Which I would counter with "And I suppose Varric's chest hair kept him nice and toasty warn as well?"
Fantasy land is a wonderful place. For example, you don't (usually) get exhausted, you are stronger than in reality, you can fling spells. You can fight without a helmet on, though in reality that would be a death sentence. You don't need to go to the toilet, and men don't need to worry about feeling uncomfortable because their pants squeeze stuff they shouldn't.
So tell me: what makes boobs so fundamentally different from all these other instances where suspending disbelief comes easy?
Many things you mention can be easily written off as gameplay mechanics that have hardly any bearing to how Thedas really is. So while you can switch helmet visibility off, the character at the moment won't be thinking "Hmmm, I shall wear my awesome invisible helmet!". For them, the helmet is still where it should, visible as it was.
Same with friendly fire - you can switch it on an off. Do you think characters in the game just shout "now, let's get rid of that pesky friendly fire!' and ZAP!, they don't have to worry about it anymore?
You also don't have to go (on-screen) to the toilet or sleep (and apparently days and nights in Thedas last forever and are individual to each zone, despite having the night-and-day cycle established in lore?) for one simple reason - DAI is not Sims.
Some 'real life' stuff has to be taken out of equation, because otherwise it would make game more tedious - possibly every single game in existence, no matter how realistic (even those taking place in our mundane reality) will have some of these things streamlined or trumped by more or less necessary game-play mechanics.
I think most players know that, hence they suspend disbelief for those elements.
So it's unfair to cite those and use them as an example of how unrealistic Thedas is - to establish that, you're going to have to read some lore or pay attention to character interactions. We do know that they sleep, bleed, ****** and get tired. We do know that most physics work the way similar to how they do in our world, unless they're affected by magic (in a way that it was stated or underlined). So if Iron Bull tells Cassandra that 'ornamental armor is crap', or she says the same thing to Vivienne, we can safely assume that they know what they're talking about, within the context of the world they happen to inhabit.
Which I would counter with "And I suppose Varric's chest hair kept him nice and toasty warn as well?"
I'd like to point out that majority of at least higher level armors for Varric does have a sturdy chest-plate to hide his priceless chest hair from harm. Iron Bull's armor also keeps him mostly covered, and that's despite the fact that him fighting bare-chested is a cultural thing (even Dorian calls him out on it and claims that it's stupid).
I think a lot of the time when people ask for realism in a fantasy game they really do mean relatable.
Thanks for finally articulating what I've been trying to put into simple words for years.
Yeah. That. Good post!
Ah, again with the 'impractical'. We always get back to this. I think the problem is that we simply cannot agree on where exactly the sweet spot is on the scale from [maky-uppy-cookoo-land ----to---- historically accurate representation of the late 15th century]. I kinda agree with your 'sports bra' comment, but on the other hand, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be able to suspend our disbelief (which is actually required for any kind of fiction to work) just like we do with two-handed heavy weapons.
(And uh, that's her default outfit; though she is behind enemy lines, I think she expects to encounter physical opposition. The book depicts her as a highly trained, elite fighter.)
I agree with you to a certain extend,
I honestly don't mind impractical armor, impractical fighting or even impractical wearing, at least in fantasy.
What irks me is that there is a double standard. IE Armor for dude is design to make looks them every inch of a warrior and armor for dudesses usually turn into an excuse for showing as much flesh one can get away with. which at prima facies that is what Rassan outfit seems to do.
I think BW is good in that department, (forgetting Miranda arse shot and EDI ******), Basically, Rassan outfit is in line with culture, the game settings and it is consistent with iron bull. so i agree as well that it might not have been a the best example to use.
phil
Definitely! And I personally would like it to stay that way, as I said before, I'm not interested in playing a RL 2.0 simulator.
I agree with you in principle, though this does bear elaborating a bit. We're talking about statistical distributions here. There's nothing to say that an exceptionally trained and skilled woman can't beat a man (even with similar skills) into a pulp. Also we're leaving other aspects that can matter (e.g. agility, cleverness, preparation) out of consideration that can give the woman (or the man) an edge. On the other hand, and this is where statistics simply become dangerous and possibly misleading, if we look at averages, your statements hold true, and consequently the top 10% of overall top fighters will probably be predominantly male. (I don't know about pain tolerance, however, women have some rather hardcore training and scientific evidence -- iirc -- suggests that outside of the influence of adrenaline, women are cabable of withstanding pain better than men. Though I'm no biologist and have become careful with such statements
But then again to me all this simply doesn't matter: I don't want 100% realism. I don't want game population to be 100% realistic either, just like I don't want armor and weaponry to be 100% realistic. If I want to make a female frontline warrior, then I will and don't care about statistics or probabilities. If I look at armies fighting on the battlefield, I prefer having more or less equal representation than the more realistic 90-10 or even 100-0 split. Which is just our common point: Realism just shouldn't be overdone. It's good to leave it at the door sometimes. Games are kinda made for that.
I teach medieval fencing and really women are just as good as men. The more lethal the weapon is the less size matter. So yes open hand is usually harder because of the weight and size difference but two handed/long sword it does not make that much difference.
phil
I'd like to point out that majority of at least higher level armors for Varric does have a sturdy chest-plate to hide his priceless chest hair from harm. Iron Bull's armor also keeps him mostly covered, and that's despite the fact that him fighting bare-chested is a cultural thing (even Dorian calls him out on it and claims that it's stupid).
Well, I have Varric running around in Legion of the Dead armor, so I can't comment on that.
But I can say that even going in to JoH I had to specially craft armor for Iron Bull to get him to wear more than one pauldron and a leather harness.
So if Iron Bull tells Cassandra that 'ornamental armor is crap', or she says the same thing to Vivienne, we can safely assume that they know what they're talking about, within the context of the world they happen to inhabit.
Talking about "within the context of the world". The only established fact is - boob armour in the world of Thedas is as safe as any other equivalent non-boob one. I played through Origins multiple times, used probably every possible boob armour there is and never got critically hit because of its design. So according to my first hand experience, what Bull says is a complete bollocks. There is no risk in wearing that kind of armour.
After some thinking about this whole "bad portrayal" issue this one question came to my mind.
The same armour on male and female character. It is full plate on male, chainmail bikini on female. The only complain we can see is that it is sexualized portrayal of woman. How about looking at it from different angle.
Two equal characters (stats wise) male wearing full plate armour and female wearing chainmall bikini. According to the game they are equal in combat in this current setup. What does that tells us? Male character is clumsy idiot who needs to dress in thick armour to be able to compete with female warrior. Bad portrayal of men? Sexist design?
So what is better, being seen and admired because of your body or being looked down upon and treated as an inept imbecile that can't compete with female unless he is heavily armoured because that's all there is to his fighting ability.
Cool story, huh ?
That's almost cheating. That's the early Death Knight armor you accquire while you're still in Western Plaguelands and it is awesome.
So we can get
(That's Rasaan, the Qunari Tamassran appearing in "Those who speak", this picture being the cover of the Library Edition iirc)
Yes please. But I doubt we ever will. The shitstorm would have biblical proportions. =(
P.S. Can we have that hair for our qunari PCs please? pretty please?
I was really hoping we would be able to make a female Qunari that looked like Rasaan in terms of hair, horns, facial structure, etc as well. But instead we can't even get close.
Oh god, I remember reading the threads full of people complaining about how she was dressed back when the comic was first released. There's absolutely no chance that Qunari women will be scantily clad when/if they start to appear regularly in the games. Like I said in another thread, consistency comes second to the fanbase's reactions. Rassan is "offensive" even though half naked male Qunari are not.
After some thinking about this whole "bad portrayal" issue this one question came to my mind.
The same armour on male and female character. It is full plate on male, chainmail bikini on female. The only complain we can see is that it is sexualized portrayal of woman. How about looking at it from different angle.
Two equal characters (stats wise) male wearing full plate armour and female wearing chainmall bikini. According to the game they are equal in combat in this current setup. What does that tells us? Male character is clumsy idiot who needs to dress in thick armour to be able to compete with female warrior. Bad portrayal of men? Sexist design?
So what is better, being seen and admired because of your body or being looked down upon and treated as an inept imbecile that can't compete with female unless he is heavily armoured because that's all there is to his fighting ability.
Cool story, huh ?
I think it could be interpreted that way too. The way I see it, is that women are more agile and should probably rely more on speed and flexiblity in battle over pure brute force. I think lighter armors work best for that purpose, even if it is a heavier set of armor. Although it sucks that the combat can't really reflect that between male and female warrior/tank types.
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