1832 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

I was not talking about you obviously but there are other posters that are happy with the current female qunari, I am not. I want more diversity for the female bodies and little less typical beauty. 

Yes, I get that. Just because some posters are quite happy with the female qunari body, me included, doesn't mean they're opposed to the option. If Bioware came out with a body slider so that those who want a muscular female could have one, I would be happy as hell for you. I would think it a fantastic idea. Saying you are happy with something doesn't mean you would eliminate options. One of these things is not like the other.

 

Am I missing a post? I could be. I don't recall anyone saying they don't want any options for that.

[The Baconer]

Maces and war hammers were capable of breaking bones through plate, but swords and pikes were not.

 

You'd be surprised.

 

There's actually a technique, called Mordhau, in which the wielder would grip the sword by the blade and use the crossguard as a bludgeon. Perfectly capable of knocking someone flat with a strike to a fully-helmeted head, and surely capable of doing damage to the sternum when striking the conveniently-concave-crevice that would sit between the boob cups. Coincidentally, this crevice would also make a great target area for a pike.

[Grieving Natashina]

You'd be surprised.

 

There's actually a technique, called Mordhau, in which the wielder would grip the sword by the blade and use the crossguard as a bludgeon. Perfectly capable of knocking someone flat with a strike to a fully-helmeted head, and surely capable of doing damage to the sternum when striking the conveniently-concave-crevice that would sit between the boob cups. Coincidentally, this crevice would also make a great target area for a pike.

A short vid demonstrating the technique in general.  

 

[xkg]

Nobody in their right mind would conduct such test, just like nobody in their right mind would create a sword to test if a sharp hilt and a blunt edge is safer for the user.

 

Best I can bring is an opinion form somebody who specifically makes armors: http://kotaku.com/58...who-makes-armor

 

I am not asking for test on human. Ever heard about other ways of testing things? Mannequins in car crash tests? Putting armour on mannequins to see the results? If you haven't here is an example for you.

 

Spoiler

 

Do some testing similar to that one with plate armour vs boob armour then come back. Theories are boring at best until proven.

[KBomb]

So, if people are absolutely opposed to having the armor from Origins added back as an option because of the impracticality of it--shouldn't the options of Vivienne's, Sera's, Varric's, Solas and Dorian's defaults and most of their optional armor be removed and only have realistic armor as an option? 

[Grieving Natashina]

So, if people are absolutely opposed to having the armor from Origins added back as an option because of the impracticality of it--shouldn't the options of Vivienne's, Sera's, Varric's, Solas and Dorian's defaults and most of their optional armor be removed and only have realistic armor as an option? 

Okay, I'm going to put on my devil's advocate hat here.

 

Vivenne: A mage that can specialize in barriers as well as the entire KE tree.  Also, most of her armor covers up her cleavage as well.

 

Sera: Wears leather mixed with chain.  Leather is oftentimes more form fitting, and she's not a front line fighter meant to be taking heavy hits.

 

Varric: Two things.  First, not all of his armor sets has his chest exposed.  Second, he takes a hit like someone would with their chest exposed.  Even in good gear when he takes a hit it's a fair chunk of damage.  I get stealth going for him to help with this.  He's also not meant to be a frontline fighter either.

 

Solas: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Dorian: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Finally when it comes to Iron Bull, I don't find him the slightest hypocritical at all.  For one, he is wearing a type of armor, the magical paint known as Vitaar.  So it's not like he's strolling into battle unarmored.  Both the Avvar and the Quanri have real world analogues with their fighting style with the Celtics.  Think about wode which Celtic warriors used, now give it some magical properties because this is Thedas and that's how the writers roll.  

 

I never ever saw him saying anything about, "That's how all women should go into battle."  I'm betting that he wouldn't make the same remark about a female Quanri with a harness style outfit or an Avvar with her more topless look.  Why?  Because they aren't strapping plate mail to their chest and fighting that way.  The extra plate armor can be as much of a hindrance as a help if designed poorly.  In fact, it might be better to strap on some Vitaar and wear much lighter armor versus badly designed chest armor that a style like the Mordhau could completely take advantage of.

 

My entire takeaway from that was if you were a woman and going to be wearing plate mail, go practical.  I saw the "ornamental crap" comment was more a shot at highborn ladies that put on armor just for show.  I can completely see that happening, especially in a country like Orlais.   Most of his experience with the southern lands has been in Orlais, and I think he's making his crack based on that experience.  I'm betting he saw the most ridiculous armor while he was there for both genders.  I was disappointed he didn't make a cod piece reference though.  To keep things a little more balanced.

[Han Shot First]

You'd be surprised.

 

There's actually a technique, called Mordhau, in which the wielder would grip the sword by the blade and use the crossguard as a bludgeon. Perfectly capable of knocking someone flat with a strike to a fully-helmeted head, and surely capable of doing damage to the sternum when striking the conveniently-concave-crevice that would sit between the boob cups. Coincidentally, this crevice would also make a great target area for a pike.

 

It is very unlikely that someone could even land a blow against a person's sternum in that matter, unless their opponent was knocked flat on their back and incapacitated in some fashion. Your opponent is going to be moving, parrying, and possibly blocking with a shield. The center of the chest is going to make a hard target especially if your opponent has a shield. The Modhau works because it strikes at the helmet above where a person would normally be guarding with a shield or ready to parry with their sword, and if carried out successfully, works in part by catching the opponent off guard.

 

What's clear in accounts of trials by combat is that heavily armored combatants were nearly immune to sword strikes that didn't catch them between gaps in the armor. This is true even when the combatants made passes on each other from horseback, where they'd have greater momentum. We don't hear of combatants being felled by broken bones.

 

The dangers posed by so-called boob plate in comparison to standard plate are somewhat overstated. While standard plate may provide better protection, the boob plate variety is still providing better protection than chain, leather, or padded armor. So long as it was well made, it would still be among the best protection available, even if it falls short of being the very best.

[Terodil]

So let me get this straight, people that wanted to have choices for armors do not want others to have the option to have muscles in women protagonists? kinda ironic no? Seems kinda logical that people can have choices in that regard. I sure want that, just like people want more fanservice.

Are you talking about me? If so, it's an absurd allegation. If not, I'll still consider this as absurd unless you provide a quote. Thanks.

[The Baconer]

It is very unlikely that someone could even land a blow against a person's sternum in that matter, unless their opponent was knocked flat on their back and incapacitated in some fashion. Your opponent is going to be moving, parrying, and possibly blocking with a shield. The center of the chest is going to make a hard target especially if your opponent has a shield. The Modhau works because it strikes at the helmet above where a person would normally be guarding with a shield or ready to parry with their sword, and if carried out successfully, works in part by catching the opponent off guard.

 

On paper, perhaps, but regardless of anything else it is still the largest target area on the body. That plate armor for the torso endured long after the rest of the suit was discarded stresses its importance.

[Hazegurl]

Yes, full plate requires more physical exertion than going without, but armored knights were often mounted as heavy cavalry. We're also making a plethora of assumption in the idea that plate armor "may have" been the decider in historical battles, most notably Agincourt, while conveniently ignoring the poor strategical decisions made by the losing parties in those engagements. Note that the English fielded their very own armored men-at-arms in that same battle.

 

It is another thing entirely to declare "It doesn't seem logical to step onto any battlefield in armor, period." (something neither of the articles would even support) even though humans have literally never stopped using it in warfare since its application.

You're right, I may have been exaggerating when I said that, but I'm speaking about running around then expecting to hop right into multiple battles closing rifts, fighting bandits et al.  As we are doing throughout the game. Which is why that comment is said after talking about IB wearing nothing but tats and straps on the field. If we're talking realism with the armor now (which is the main argument against boob plate), then how effective is it overall to run around a desert terrain in 100lbs + heavy armor fighting demons and everything else for hours on end without missing a beat?  

[Han Shot First]

The funny thing about these threads is that I usually find myself playing devil's advocate, despite the gender neutral varieties being my preference in terms of aesthetics. Generally speaking I'd much rather see something like these on a female character:

 

Spoiler

[The Baconer]

You're right, I may have been exaggerating when I said that, but I'm speaking about running around then expecting to hop right into multiple battles closing rifts, fighting bandits et al.  As we are doing throughout the game. Which is why that comment is said after talking about IB wearing nothing but tats and straps on the field. If we're talking realism with the armor now (which is the main argument against boob plate), then how effective is it overall to run around a desert terrain in 100lbs + heavy armor fighting demons and everything else for hours on end without missing a beat?  

 

I'd probably sooner ask "Why am I running around a desert fighting bandits and picking flowers and mining when I'm the supreme commander of a military organization?"

[ModernAcademic]

We build a huge army, have hundreds of spies in our service, several contacts with noble houses, merchants and mercenaries so as to...walk around Thedas with a large target painted on our back, waiting for Corypheus to come and kill us as we pick up elfroot. 

[KBomb]

Okay, I'm going to put on my devil's advocate hat here.

 

Vivenne: A mage that can specialize in barriers as well as the entire KE tree.  Also, most of her armor covers up her cleavage as well.

 

Sera: Wears leather mixed with chain.  Leather is oftentimes more form fitting, and she's not a front line fighter meant to be taking heavy hits.

 

Varric: Two things.  First, not all of his armor sets has his chest exposed.  Second, he takes a hit like someone would with their chest exposed.  Even in good gear when he takes a hit it's a fair chunk of damage.  I get stealth going for him to help with this.  He's also not meant to be a frontline fighter either.

 

Solas: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Dorian: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Finally when it comes to Iron Bull, I don't find him the slightest hypocritical at all.  For one, he is wearing a type of armor, the magical paint known as Vitaar.  So it's not like he's strolling into battle unarmored.  Both the Avvar and the Quanri have real world analogues with their fighting style with the Celtics.  Think about wode which Celtic warriors used, now give it some magical properties because this is Thedas and that's how the writers roll.  

 

I never ever saw him saying anything about, "That's how all women should go into battle."  I'm betting that he wouldn't make the same remark about a female Quanri with a harness style outfit or an Avvar with her more topless look.  Why?  Because they aren't strapping plate mail to their chest and fighting that way.  The extra plate armor can be as much of a hindrance as a help if designed poorly.  In fact, it might be better to strap on some Vitaar and wear much lighter armor versus badly designed chest armor that a style like the Mordhau could completely take advantage of.

 

My entire takeaway from that was if you were a woman and going to be wearing plate mail, go practical.  I saw the "ornamental crap" comment was more a shot at highborn ladies that put on armor just for show.  I can completely see that happening, especially in a country like Orlais.   Most of his experience with the southern lands has been in Orlais, and I think he's making his crack based on that experience.  I'm betting he saw the most ridiculous armor while he was there for both genders.  I was disappointed he didn't make a cod piece reference though.  To keep things a little more balanced.

You know, Natashina, this is why I like discussing things with you. Even if I disagree with you, you always phrase your answers with eloquence and fairness. 

 

That being said, I wasn't talking about the optional armors you can place your companions in that's "practical". I am talking about the default and some of the optional armor you can have them to wear that isn't considered "safe". 

 

Going further in: Mages cannot maintain barrier 24/7, at some point, they're going to be completely drained if they don't maintain a balance. Of course, if you do everything by the reality set within the game universe and you role your mage as support only, i.e. barrier, then sure, maybe. If they're batting off barriers and combat spells, it's going to make them weak pretty quickly. Also, in Thedas, mages have a reputation as dangerous and feared, they would be the first thing taken out in a battle situation. Vivienne's default armor, as well as Solas and Dorian--are basically cloth. No protection against projectiles from the archer who is waiting for that barrier to drop so they can be eliminated from the fight. All three mages have vital weaknesses that can lead them to instant death, even from enemy mages. 

 

Sera and Varric and even Cole start off with armor that is basically cloth, as well. Some of their optional armor is no better. Again, they can't maintain stealth and swiftness forever. As soon as they loose an arrow, they are known and any rogue or mage adversary is going to know when and where to strike, either with an arrow to the throat (as our darling Sera would demonstrate) or a dagger to the back. 

 

Now, it being said that mages have access to barrier--- mages make great support roles because they can give barrier to their comrades and in-game, maintain it just as well for a warrior as for themselves. Warriors have access to Guard. It works like a barrier in that it has to be depleted before the warrior begins to take any damage to himself or armor. If warrior utilized their guard for up-close encounters, which they do because that is how it works best, especially with On Hit advantages, a skilled warrior would have ample time to deflect most frontal blow. At least, he/she would be able to deflect and prevent any killing blow just as well as a mage with barrier, who would be rushed by a rogue or warrior. Death can come to any, even the best outfitted. 

 

If you look at the armor that was originally in question before people started bringing up chainmail bikinis and such, which was in Origins, it has just as much believability as a lot of the armors in Inquisition. This armor would be optional, just as any of the impractical armor used by any rogue or mage in Inquisition. I don't see people demanding that Vivienne or Sera's impractical armor be removed for it's "silliness". All most ask for is that there is a better option, a more practical option-which there are. Vivienne, Sera, Varric, all of them have better armor to equip. As would warriors if the Origin armor would be added. 

 

I don't think I read one reply where someone was saying that this armor should be required or default. Only that it would be a nice option. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I've got some more thoughts that I'm chewing over on this topic that I might add later, but I appreciate the compliment as well as the reply.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well I just looked at the The Black Emporium DLC, and just more of the same in terms of armor. I don't think they even added new schematics at all. 

[Lilithor]

Okay, I'm going to put on my devil's advocate hat here.

 

Vivenne: A mage that can specialize in barriers as well as the entire KE tree.  Also, most of her armor covers up her cleavage as well.

 

Sera: Wears leather mixed with chain.  Leather is oftentimes more form fitting, and she's not a front line fighter meant to be taking heavy hits.

 

Varric: Two things.  First, not all of his armor sets has his chest exposed.  Second, he takes a hit like someone would with their chest exposed.  Even in good gear when he takes a hit it's a fair chunk of damage.  I get stealth going for him to help with this.  He's also not meant to be a frontline fighter either.

 

Solas: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Dorian: A mage with access to barriers.

 

Finally when it comes to Iron Bull, I don't find him the slightest hypocritical at all.  For one, he is wearing a type of armor, the magical paint known as Vitaar.  So it's not like he's strolling into battle unarmored.  Both the Avvar and the Quanri have real world analogues with their fighting style with the Celtics.  Think about wode which Celtic warriors used, now give it some magical properties because this is Thedas and that's how the writers roll.  

 

I never ever saw him saying anything about, "That's how all women should go into battle."  I'm betting that he wouldn't make the same remark about a female Quanri with a harness style outfit or an Avvar with her more topless look.  Why?  Because they aren't strapping plate mail to their chest and fighting that way.  The extra plate armor can be as much of a hindrance as a help if designed poorly.  In fact, it might be better to strap on some Vitaar and wear much lighter armor versus badly designed chest armor that a style like the Mordhau could completely take advantage of.

 

My entire takeaway from that was if you were a woman and going to be wearing plate mail, go practical.  I saw the "ornamental crap" comment was more a shot at highborn ladies that put on armor just for show.  I can completely see that happening, especially in a country like Orlais.   Most of his experience with the southern lands has been in Orlais, and I think he's making his crack based on that experience.  I'm betting he saw the most ridiculous armor while he was there for both genders.  I was disappointed he didn't make a cod piece reference though.  To keep things a little more balanced.

So you found excuses for each case, great! Now what about Inquisitor mage armor? And the said characters with heavy armor still looking light in some (most?) cases? Like making a silverite armor for Sera that looks like cotton and leather? These matters can only be discussed when you focus on single minor things to discuss, when you look at the whole and how things interact it becomes pretty obvious it is nothing but design choices, not logical ones.

Bioware tries to sell ideology like the church, or in other words, like a magician tries to trick you into looking into one hand while doing magic with the other. It all comes down to agreeing or not with their direction, as it always is with any kind of art, there is no reason to argue logic.

 

So the problems with your point are: Barriers are not infinite or constant (except in knight enchanter case and I doubt lore-wise anyone would have barriers all the time, mages would be unbeatable). Enchantments are not exclusive to mage "armors", also mage armors are not exclusive to mages, so any person could have "magic" protecting them from damage. Vitaars can't possibly prevent Qunari from taking damage from most blows, perhaps a dagger wouldn't cut their skin easily but a full two handed axe blow delivered by a same level enemy would probably still kill them if not cut them through.

It is very easy to discuss these matters with "logic" since there is no way to prove or disprove a theory, we don't have a world in which we can experiment neither do we have the writters here with us to confirm or deny our suppositions, so things can't be proved, in other words we can't know. But I'm still going with it is all bullshit since all Inquisitors from all classes dress the same, it is pretty obvious game went iconic (since DA2), there is no reason to discuss practic when it is obvious design choice. Armors are different for each character meaning it is all about personality. A chain mail bikini with 6 inch heels in Origins would be more about armor than a full plate in Inquisition (or DA2) since in Inquisition it depends on the character wearing making it clear it is all about personality. Bioware went with "superheroes", they have uniforms, costumes, whatever you want to call, to reflect what they are, they are not regular people wearing regular armor as in DAO. Of course one of the awful marks Bioware is all about pleasing marvel/dc teenagers and 5 year old children with Captain America child and Superman cape in their birthday paties (maybe that's why sex sux).

There is no point in discussing logic in armor when you see how Isabela was in DAO and how she is in DA2. It is like being a pirate and they shouting "HENSHIN!" and becoming a stripper.

[Mihura]

Are you talking about me? If so, it's an absurd allegation. If not, I'll still consider this as absurd unless you provide a quote. Thanks.

 

"I'd much rather have a less muscular qunari male and keep the current qunari female model than have the female beefed up to the male state."

 

I was talking about the reaction to the notion of wanting to have more muscle on female PCs, every time someone bring it up most people are fine with the female qunari because they do not find buff bodies aesthetically pleasing.

Still personal preferences of not wanting it, are ironic in a topic like this. Shouldn't the general opinion be "I want a lot of option so more people can enjoy it"? 

[KBomb]

"I'd much rather have a less muscular qunari male and keep the current qunari female model than have the female beefed up to the male state."

I was talking about the reaction to the notion of wanting to have more muscle on female PCs, every time someone bring it up most people are fine with the female qunari because they do not find buff bodies aesthetically pleasing.

Still personal preferences of not wanting it, are ironic in a topic like this. Shouldn't the general opinion be "I want a lot of option so more people can enjoy it"?

What in the world? In no way does that imply he doesn't want options. In no way does that imply that he wouldn't support options. Just that he likes the female qunari just fine the way they are and wouldn't want a more muscled version forced on him.

There is nothing at all ironic about saying you're happy with how the qunari look and wanting more options for armor. It would only be ironic or hypocritical if one stated they wanted the female qunari to stay the same and would have no wish to see options added to allow anything other than what is offered. No one has said that. At all.

[Mihura]

What in the world? In no way does that imply he doesn't want options. In no way does that imply that he wouldn't support options. Just that he likes the female qunari just fine the way they are and wouldn't want a more muscled version forced on him.

There is nothing at all ironic about saying you're happy with how the qunari look and wanting more options for armor. It would only be ironic or hypocritical if one stated they wanted the female qunari to stay the same and would have no wish to see options added to allow anything other than what is offered. No one has said that. At all.

 

Hum so there is only one type of body per race, and the poster clearly said it, it is their preference. Unless I am reading it wrong it seem that way.

There was no talk about a slider but tone it done on the male side. Isn't that favoring one option over another(like bringing the female armor to the level of male one?), if i read the post wrong I apologize but it come across like that and not "people should have more options when it comes to bodies". 

[KBomb]

Hum so there is only one type of body per race, and the poster clearly said it, it is their preference. Unless I am reading it wrong it seem that way.

There was no talk about a slider but tone it done on the male side. Isn't that favoring one option over another(like bringing the female armor to the level of male one?), if i read the post wrong I apologize but it come across like that and not "people should have more options when it comes to bodies".

Obviously I cannot speak for him, but I didn't get that impression from that statement at all. I think he meant this: There is only one type of body to choose from. There are no options. He likes the female qunari just the way she is and if he had to choose between changing the female body to become more muscular to match the male, he would rather make the male smaller. He had to pick one over the other because there are no other options. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be in favor of a body slider or more options.

There are options for armor already. If this armor was added, it would be optional as well. You wouldn't have to choose the Origins armor or the Battlemaster armor and then live with your singular choice. It's a completely different thing.

Favoring one option over another also doesn't mean the option shouldn't exist. Just that you have a preference.

[Mihura]

Obviously I cannot speak for him, but I didn't get that impression from that statement at all. I think he meant this: There is only one type of body to choose from. There are no options. He likes the female qunari just the way she is and if he had to choose between changing the female body to become more muscular to match the male, he would rather make the male smaller. He had to pick one over the other because there are no other options. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be in favor of a body slider or more options.

There are options for armor already. If this armor was added, it would be optional as well. You wouldn't have to choose the Origins armor or the Battlemaster armor and then live with your singular choice. It's a completely different thing.

Favoring one option over another also doesn't mean the option shouldn't exist. Just that you have a preference.

 

Fair enough, I was seeing this on the line of "why not put the female quanri at the same level? why it must be the opposite, so we get less buff choices".

 

[Panda]

Well female qunaris are, in DAI, quite different than comics ^^; Qunaris were revamped for DAI, I'm still not 100% in board with it cause I liked DA2's look more with strong forehead and hoped that look would follow to female qunaris.

 

Maybe I should explain with pictures.

 

We got this:

 

 

Comics had this:

 

 

(notice lack of any signs of her being qunari other than horns without those and ear it would be picture of human)

 

And this was what I hoped for:

 

 

 

By: http://hessarian.dev...unari-361785284

 

So basically what I want is distinctive race of qunari where female counterpart looks closer to male qunari than female human.

 

This is pretty good especially body-wise (sadly we don't get it in the game since revamp):

 

[SnakeCode]

Yes, I get that. Just because some posters are quite happy with the female qunari body, me included, doesn't mean they're opposed to the option. If Bioware came out with a body slider so that those who want a muscular female could have one, I would be happy as hell for you. I would think it a fantastic idea. Saying you are happy with something doesn't mean you would eliminate options. One of these things is not like the other.

 

Am I missing a post? I could be. I don't recall anyone saying they don't want any options for that.

 

Isn't that what everyone who's opposed to boob plate doing, essentially? All people have been asking for is a greater variety and the option to choose a style of armor that they like. So people who like boob plate could use it, whilst people like me who thinks it looks silly can use more practical armors. Some people are arguing against even having the option.

[TheOgre]

-snip-

 

In all except for the DAI and Comic pictures you linked I saw a unique species that was somewhat alien to human beings. The qunari in DAI are so humanoid and not unique in their own sense that I can call them actual Qunari. I'm really hoping they do not go with those concepts from the comic or DAI for DA4.