1832 réponses à ce sujet

[Uccio]

You'd be surprised.

 

There's actually a technique, called Mordhau, in which the wielder would grip the sword by the blade and use the crossguard as a bludgeon. Perfectly capable of knocking someone flat with a strike to a fully-helmeted head, and surely capable of doing damage to the sternum when striking the conveniently-concave-crevice that would sit between the boob cups. Coincidentally, this crevice would also make a great target area for a pike.

 

Interesting. I saw the video below and it seemed technical and all but wouldn´t such a strike require a tremendous amount of power? Especially to actually penetrate the armor to harm the target. Swords blade doesn´t seem to be the kind of handle which would provide strong enough grip for it.

[Uccio]

Well female qunaris are, in DAI, quite different than comics ^^; Qunaris were revamped for DAI, I'm still not 100% in board with it cause I liked DA2's look more with strong forehead and hoped that look would follow to female qunaris.

 

 

 

By: http://hessarian.dev...unari-361785284

 

 

This would have been so cool.

[Terodil]

@Panda: That looks powerful, sexy and kick-ass, would play. You have to agree though that it's still a *far* cry from what the males look like in the concept art, or what the Arishok looked like in DA2; when you said 'females have to look more like the males of the species', that created quite another picture in my mind. Come to think of it, I don't think the picture you posted is *that* far away from what Rasaan looked like in the comic, just a slightly different style and perspective (esp. if you consider the neck/shoulder parts). (Also, I'd kill for having that braid as a hair option!!)

 

@KBomb: Thank you. That is exactly what I was saying.

[Panda]

@Panda: That looks powerful, sexy and kick-ass, would play. You have to agree though that it's still a *far* cry from what the males look like in the concept art, or what the Arishok looked like in DA2; when you said 'females have to look more like the males of the species', that created quite another picture in my mind. Come to think of it, I don't think the picture you posted is *that* far away from what Rasaan looked like in the comic, just a slightly different style and perspective. (Also, I'd kill for having that braid as a hair option!!)

 

@KBomb: Thank you. That is exactly what I was saying.

 

Well the another link didn't seem to work, but I think my main point is that I want female qunari to look as alien and intimidating as male qunaris and I think this can be done by their body type be bigger and more muscular than humans (no need for bodybuilder built or sth like that) and have strong forehead like male qunaris in DA2.

 

And so I was arguing that the comic cover:

 

 

Is too humanized to the point she doesn't seem qunari to me. She doesn't seem big and intimidating. The comic itself does little better, but I think Rasaan is still too far from male qunaris there so the Inquisition card picture of qunaris both female and male is lot better in my opinion for female qunari.

 

In other hand I found this fanart of qunari female while looking for pics, I think it fits to earlier discussion about female qunari armor compared to Iron Bulls. It actually is Bull's armor drawn on female qunari. I'd think it would work as female warrior qunaris outfit, well Tal-Vashoths at least, if it's companied with leather bra or sth that covers up boobs enough so she isn't topless.

 

 

by: http://nimoda.devian...unari-392042845

[Terodil]

She doesn't seem big and intimidating.

It's the perspective and the fact that we only see part of the whole picture. You can see in the comics that she actually does tower over others, e.g. Isabela.

Also I don't get why 'pretty' seems to contradict 'intimidating' in your eyes. My Sith in SWTOR, for example, are terrifying, yet stunningly beautiful nonetheless. Besides, I don't find 'muscular' particularly intimidating; the question 'How is your family?' voiced in a low, 'friendly' tone is a far more effective threat than a fist to the face.

[Shechinah]

It's the perspective. You can see in the comics that she actually does tower over others, e.g. Isabela.

Also I don't get why 'pretty' seems to contradict 'intimidating' in your eyes. My Sith in SWTOR, for example, are terrifying, yet stunningly beautiful nonetheless. Besides, I don't find 'muscular' particularly intimidating; the question 'How is your family?' voiced in a low, friendly tone is a far more effective threat than a fist to the face.

 

I gave my Inquisitor freckles and he managed to be very intimidating especially because despite his calm voice, he had this element of quiet unpredictability. My Bounty Hunter was a small cathar that managed to become terrifying because she was ruthless to the degree of being a bounty hunter almost seemingly because serial killing did not pay and she never seemed to raise her voice not even, if I recall correctly, when she was burning innocent people alive with a flamethrower. It was still calm and in this casual manner like doing something so horrific merited no second thoughts nor any reaction even as she standing face to face with them, seeing it happen and hearing them scream.

 

It is down to preference but I find the non-physically intimidating character more frightening for about the same reason as Terodil. Rasaan is the kind of non-physically intimidating character who could work well because she could potentially be breaking you by talking, peeling you down layer by layer 'till she knows things about you, you do not even know; mind games essentially.  
 

[Terodil]

We actually have an example of 'beautiful but terrifying' right in the game: Vivienne. The first time we met her gave me goosebumps. This understatement, the cordiality just barely hiding her authority and power was fantastic imo. I fell in love with her character right there and then: steel covered with silk.

*understands but still gripes at the fact that she's not a romance option at all*

[Mihura]

We actually have an example of 'beautiful but terrifying' right in the game: Vivienne. The first time we met her gave me goosebumps. This understatement, the cordiality just barely hiding her authority and power was fantastic imo. I fell in love with her character right there and then: steel covered with silk.

*understands but still gripes at the fact that she's not a romance option at all*

 

There are a lot of female characters in that box 'beautiful but terrifying" Leliana, Mythal, Anora... etc so it is not something new to the game, there are various types of intimating presences of course but overall physical ones are most of the time put on the male characters.

I still think DA overall is a lot more conservative when it comes to gender design, it got a lot better in DA:I but still needs work.

*Vivienne could had been one of the best LIs in game in my opinion, still sad about that too*

[Terodil]

There are a lot of female characters in that box 'beautiful but terrifying" Leliana, Mythal, Anora...

'beautiful but terrifying" Leliana, Mythal, Anora...

Anora...

Anora! Oh good grief, don't tempt me, Mihura! Anora is one of my most hated characters in all of video game history. She was neither terrifying, nor beautiful, she was simply a horribly annoying brat! *rant devolves into incoherent rambling*

Aaaaaaaanyway... *ahem*
 

there are various types of intimating presences of course but overall physical ones are most of the time put on the male characters.

Yes, that I agree with, and I actually consider that problematic for the image of both male and female characters because it is indeed an overwhelming tendency (1). That said...
 

I still think DA overall is a lot more conservative when it comes to gender design, it got a lot better in DA:I but still needs work.

I think that trying to 'design' all this stuff is a bad idea. It makes stuff stale, boring, horribly complex, and despite -- or perhaps even because of -- all this, bound to offend. I want diverse characters, and I want characters that I can 'fall in love with' (figuratively speaking of course). They need to breathe, to be made of flesh and blood, and a checklist poured into character design is anathema to that.


(1) Which is kinda interesting. Going OT here, but it's surprising to me to see how strongly gender stereotypes are enforced by the very gender (sex) that is stymied by them. E.g. men calling other men weak/'gay'/... or simply turning their nose when they show emotions or pick a caring profession, for example, or women calling other women slutty for choosing provocative clothing or for displaying the same behaviour men have not faced nearly as much criticism for (e.g. being promiscuous). I really wish we could leave all these 'boxes' behind and finally learn that we are all individuals that defy being put into neat little boxes. This is also the reason why I hate the idea inherent in calls for representation -- they reinforce, not abolish, the idea of boxes. However that may be, though, a game is not the right medium to enforce change. That would be like asking a single farmer to solve world famine. In both cases, we first need to study and change the seed to see results.

[Mihura]

Anora! Oh good grief, don't tempt me, Mihura! Anora is one of my most hated characters in all of video game history. She was neither terrifying, nor beautiful, she was simply a horribly annoying brat! *rant devolves into incoherent rambling*

Aaaaaaaanyway... *ahem*
 

Yes, that I agree with, and I actually consider that problematic for the image of both male and female characters because it is indeed an overwhelming tendency (1). That said...
 

I think that trying to 'design' all this stuff is a bad idea. It makes stuff stale, boring, horribly complex, and despite -- or perhaps even because of -- all this, bound to offend. I want diverse characters, and I want characters that I can 'fall in love with' (figuratively speaking of course). They need to breathe, to be made of flesh and blood, and a checklist poured into character design is anathema to that.


(1) Which is kinda interesting. Going OT here, but it's surprising to me to see how strongly gender stereotypes are enforced by the very gender (sex) that is stymied by them. E.g. men calling other men weak/'gay'/... or simply turning their nose when they show emotions or pick a caring profession, for example, or women calling other women slutty for choosing provocative clothing or for displaying the same behaviour men have not faced nearly as much criticism for (e.g. being promiscuous). I really wish we could leave all these 'boxes' behind and finally learned that we are all individuals that defy being put into itty bitty boxes. At the same time, I'm convinced that a game is not the right medium to enforce change though, and therefore this sort of criticism levvied at game designers seems like asking a single farmer to solve world famine.

 

I love Anora actually, she is a lot like Vivienne in therm of goals in life.

When I am talking about design, I am referring to character design and its processes and not really humm what you describe. All the games do this, most of the time it begging with shapes and silhouettes. There is a tendency to restrict the base concepts when it comes to genders, for example shapes and silhouettes more lean and fluid are associated with female characters, more square base and strong lines are associated with male ones. Which would be fine if they mix it up when the character design needs it.

When you fall onto those two without question it, it restricts your creative freedom. It can get to the point of creating similar characters over and over again. Dragon Age does have some problems in that regard but it is evolving a lot better than most. I am not asking for them to resolve the world problems, only to not be restrict by shapes that go only onto two boxes.

[DrDeeft]

Totally agree with the OP's request.

[Terodil]

I see what you mean, Mihura, and I think we actually both have points. You are right, ofc, in what you describe as the pitfall of creating the same character over and over, and from a writing perspective I'm fairly certain that the authors start out very high-level first and then drill down. Still, we differ in the assessment of DA:I in terms of progress or regress. It's no secret that I'm very disappointed in DA:I, and character concepts is one of my issues (even though Dorian was brilliant and Vivienne was too, though we got far too little of her). I perceive the path BW is taking as the path towards potato mush because it tries too hard to aim at the average, not at the excellent. It tries too hard to please and to avoid shitstorms, whatever perspective you prefer. (Caution: slight hyperbole incoming.) It's bland, it doesn't taste great, it has no variance, but at least you can eat it even if you don't like hot, sweet, sour, or bitter and have no teeth. The drawback is that you can't really say that much about it afterwards either.

[Panda]

It's the perspective and the fact that we only see part of the whole picture. You can see in the comics that she actually does tower over others, e.g. Isabela.

Also I don't get why 'pretty' seems to contradict 'intimidating' in your eyes. My Sith in SWTOR, for example, are terrifying, yet stunningly beautiful nonetheless. Besides, I don't find 'muscular' particularly intimidating; the question 'How is your family?' voiced in a low, 'friendly' tone is a far more effective threat than a fist to the face.

 

 She's tall, but doesn't appear as "big".

 

I could have used other adjectives as well, but it doesn't matter cause people have different views on them and they can be circled around as well like pretty and intimidating. I think you already got my point though.

[The Baconer]

Interesting. I saw the video below and it seemed technical and all but wouldn´t such a strike require a tremendous amount of power? Especially to actually penetrate the armor to harm the target. Swords blade doesn´t seem to be the kind of handle which would provide strong enough grip for it.

 

It's not about penetrating the armor. The plate is going to stop cuts, slashes, thrusts, but you're still being hit with the kinetic force of the strike. Boob-cups either fail to distribute the force across a wider area, or do the opposite of what you'd want armor to do, by providing a nice area between the cups that would act to focus the energy within the structurally weakest part of the armor. 

[XMissWooX]

I perceive the path BW is taking as the path towards potato mush because it tries too hard to aim at the average, not at the excellent. It tries too hard to please and to avoid shitstorms, whatever perspective you prefer. (Caution: slight hyperbole incoming.) It's bland, it doesn't taste great, it has no variance, but at least you can eat it even if you don't like hot, sweet, sour, or bitter and have no teeth. The drawback is that you can't really say that much about it afterwards either.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you 100%, so forgive me if I've misinterpreted.

This seems a little unfair, though. What you percieve as bland, dull and something BW should should actively move away from may be perceived as interesting, appealing and something BW should actively pursue by others. Bioware didn't necessarily choose this design because they're trying to be 'safe'; perhaps they chose it because they, like many others in this thread, simply like that design.

Although, to be honest, with the way the art style has flip-flopped from DAO to DA2 to DAI, it's possible even Bioware doesn't know what it wants.

[Torgette]

I don't mind the contour armors, but IRL they weren't used for battle.

[Uccio]

It's not about penetrating the armor. The plate is going to stop cuts, slashes, thrusts, but you're still being hit with the kinetic force of the strike. Boob-cups either fail to distribute the force across a wider area, or do the opposite of what you'd want armor to do, by providing a nice area between the cups that would act to focus the energy within the structurally weakest part of the armor. 

 

I´m not a a expert on physics but wouldn´t a body armor, at least a one piece armor going around the torso, work like a faraday cage absorbing the kinetic energy? Especially with the padding giving support under the armor.

[Terodil]

This seems a little unfair, though. What you percieve as bland, dull and something BW should should actively move away from may be perceived as interesting, appealing and something BW should actively pursue by others. Bioware didn't necessarily choose this design because they're trying to be 'safe'; perhaps they chose it because they, like many others in this thread, simply like that design.

Nah, of course others may disagree. I'm simply talking from my own perspective here, if you and others are happy with what BW are doing, that's great for you. The financials seem to support that opinion far more than my own.

Doesn't change the fact that I'm sad and slightly pessimistic about where BW is headed. Obviously I don't mean boob cup armor; I'm talking about the (again, imo) uninspired story, the lack of choice (wth BW? not even a 'renegade'/'dark side' path for the Inquisition?), and a lot of other stuff, amongst which the almost ubiquitous move towards the average. But that's been covered to exhaustion in other threads already.

Just wanted to say that I'm happy if you are happy. I would still like to be happy *too* (hence my constant uphill battle for options), but eh...

[philippe willaume]

It's not about penetrating the armor. The plate is going to stop cuts, slashes, thrusts, but you're still being hit with the kinetic force of the strike. Boob-cups either fail to distribute the force across a wider area, or do the opposite of what you'd want armor to do, by providing a nice area between the cups that would act to focus the energy within the structurally weakest part of the armor. 

 

Well the point of plate is that it quite hard to deform permanently. 

So you can hit with maces all day long. only the noise is going to envoy the wearer.

maces disappeared of the knight arsenal as plate become pro-eminent. it was replace by "hammers" which basically are ice-pic or a lance tip with a weight behind it.

This is a piecing weapon and a hook.

http://en.wikipedia...._London)_01.jpg.

 

 

 

Basically 15th century plate  is designed to take a couched lance, you will be hard pressed to generate that amount of energy on foot.

but with a good blow you can piece the thinner part of the Armour (like the cannon or the side of the head)

This is not really of how to use the weapon and the test armour is not up to medieval standard but it illustrates the point.

 

Original plates are of unequal thickness, so if need be the area between the breast could be thicker. or having re-enforce like the front of helmets.

Really the problem with boobs in plate is that it will not deflect the blow as my rounded  placard and breastplate does.

In fact it will probably either give grip to my lance tip (or my pose weapon)  so that i will be easier to push you over or deflect a point toward your armpit or throat.

[Han Shot First]

Interesting. I saw the video below and it seemed technical and all but wouldn´t such a strike require a tremendous amount of power? Especially to actually penetrate the armor to harm the target. Swords blade doesn´t seem to be the kind of handle which would provide strong enough grip for it.

 

It might penetrate the helm or at least ring the bell of the man beneath it. It also depends in part of the quality of helm being worn. They varied greatly in quality and level of protection. Nobles and knights wearing great helms would be fine, but some man-at-arms in a poor quality kettle helm might end up seriously injured. 

[philippe willaume]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you 100%, so forgive me if I've misinterpreted.

This seems a little unfair, though. What you percieve as bland, dull and something BW should should actively move away from may be perceived as interesting, appealing and something BW should actively pursue by others. Bioware didn't necessarily choose this design because they're trying to be 'safe'; perhaps they chose it because they, like many others in this thread, simply like that design.

Although, to be honest, with the way the art style has flip-flopped from DAO to DA2 to DAI, it's possible even Bioware doesn't know what it wants.

 

yes they probably did and i was happy to play a Qunari and I like the specific no helmet thing , but it hard to dispute that the female qunari ended up feeling like a tall human with horn and a strange hair cut and that is probably no small thanks to Iron bull.

 

The problem is that the standard has sort of being laid before and objectively we are not quite there in DA:I. So for people like me that did not really waited with a baited breath to play a Quanari, i am happy with the end result, yes i would have liked it to be closer to the drawing but for me the way it has been implemented is a minor inconvenience at worse.

however i can understand that people that were looking forward to play that type of character to be disappointed.

 

phil

[philippe willaume]

Interesting. I saw the video below and it seemed technical and all but wouldn´t such a strike require a tremendous amount of power? Especially to actually penetrate the armor to harm the target. Swords blade doesn´t seem to be the kind of handle which would provide strong enough grip for it.

 

Ringeck , with that type of strike, advise to aim at the wrist and the knee with the pommel. This is against an armored man.

 

in thalhoffer You will find play with a panzerstecher (armour thruster) in judicial dual both in armour and without.

http://www.kb.dk/da/...hott-2_290.html

look at page 218 (in harnach and zu kampf usually means that you are in armour)

 

A panzerstecher is in general thicker that a normal sword blade, and they tend to be balanced more like a jo. So using it that way it will behave more like a  demi-axe.  so no chance against the strong part of the armour, nor the  helmet if it is properly padded. it will spoil the day of a dude without Armour

 

The strikesin the video are kind of too slow and using to much arms (you should fight with all the strength of all you members as they says in period manuals), basically striking with the blade or with the pommel  is all about tip velocity and the more arm you use in the rotation the less fast your tip/pommel will rotate and use body mechanic to add momentum to blow.

[XMissWooX]

Nah, of course others may disagree. I'm simply talking from my own perspective here, if you and others are happy with what BW are doing, that's great for you. The financials seem to support that opinion far more than my own.Doesn't change the fact that I'm sad and slightly pessimistic about where BW is headed. Obviously I don't mean boob cup armor; I'm talking about the (again, imo) uninspired story, the lack of choice (wth BW? not even a 'renegade'/'dark side' path for the Inquisition?), and a lot of other stuff, amongst which the almost ubiquitous move towards the average. But that's been covered to exhaustion in other threads already.Just wanted to say that I'm happy if you are happy. I would still like to be happy *too* (hence my constant uphill battle for options), but eh...

I understand that. I'm pretty happy with the direction the artists have gone in DAI, but I will admit to being a little disappointed with some of the other aspects of the game.
Giving everyone options seems like the best way to make us all happy, but even then there must be limits to the compromise. Some people don't want to see FeatureX at all, and others want to see FeatureX everywhere, so it's really hard to find a win-win situation.
Still, perhaps Bioware will make yet another change to the art style in the next game and it'll be my turn to make a 'why so many boobplate armours?' thread.

[leaguer of one]

I have more. SUPER.

 

[Uccio]

Ringeck , with that type of strike, advise to aim at the wrist and the knee with the pommel. This is against an armored man.

 

in thalhoffer You will find play with a panzerstecher (armour thruster) in judicial dual both in armour and without.

http://www.kb.dk/da/...hott-2_290.html

look at page 218 (in harnach and zu kampf usually means that you are in armour)

 

A panzerstecher is in general thicker that a normal sword blade, and they tend to be balanced more like a jo. So using it that way it will behave more like a  demi-axe.  so no chance against the strong part of the armour, nor the  helmet if it is properly padded. it will spoil the day of a dude without Armour

 

The strikesin the video are kind of too slow and using to much arms (you should fight with all the strength of all you members as they says in period manuals), basically striking with the blade or with the pommel  is all about tip velocity and the more arm you use in the rotation the less fast your tip/pommel will rotate and use body mechanic to add momentum to blow.

 

Thanks, nice link.