1832 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

that actually happened?

 

I know second did because that's what I referring too lol

 

On GameFAQs (I know, it's GameFAQs), yes. I'm more than certain on other sites too, but GameFAQs is where I've seen most of it.

 

"amg Cassie's suit is so unmilitary! Look at her bust, it looks like it's about to pop out of her suit! NRS and WB are setting women back 5 million years with Cassie's clothes!"

 

To be fair, Cassie's catsuit is really tight, and it does shape around her t**ties quite nicely. Oh, and I've seen people complain about Jacqui too:

 

"amg Jacqui's alt is really low cut you guys, NRS and Boon are evil rapists, those oppressive cishets!"

[TheOgre]

SJWs who get buttmad at something like Cassie's catsuit or MRAs who get buttmad that Mileena isn't fighting 3/4 naked? Because I've seen both.

Feels pretty funny doesn't it? Two different extremist groups demanding change for even the smallest things because they personally get offended when someone else is happy.

On GameFAQs (I know, it's GameFAQs), yes. I'm more than certain on other sites too, but GameFAQs is where I've seen most of it.

"amg Cassie's suit is so unmilitary! Look at her bust, it looks like it's about to pop out of her suit! NRS and WB are setting women back 5 million years with Cassie's clothes!"

To be fair, Cassie's catsuit is really tight, and it does shape around her t**ties quite nicely. Oh, and I've seen people complain about Jacqui too:

"amg Jacqui's alt is really low cut you guys, NRS and Boon are evil rapists, those oppressive cishets!"

then you see them throw around nuclear weapon like words like that to carry more weight with their argument. I'm certain mra has their fair share.

[TevinterSupremacist]

But this is nonsense. The "ends" is "don't come off like a sexist" and the means is "don't use absurd fetish wear on female characters". You're acting like they're going for some far-flung utopian goal pursued by morally reprehensible means. This is about outfits in video games. It's hard to find a topic that's less relevant or important. 

 

Not everyone will agree that a developer having fetishwear on women only is an act of sexism, you know. It could very well be the dveloper exressing his/her sexuality.

 

The problem with this end->means in this case is that while not being sexist is a very noble goal, we don't exactly have a common consensus on what is and isn't sexist.

[Panda]

Not everyone will agree that a developer having fetishwear on women only is an act of sexism, you know. It could very well be the dveloper exressing his/her sexuality.

 

The problem with this end->means in this case is that while not being sexist is a very noble goal, we don't exactly have a common consensus on what is and isn't sexist.

 

However if games were all about developers expressing their fantasies in terms of sexualities and so on it would limit and exclude players a lot, since all players who would want to play the game won't share developers gender and sexuality. Only thing to fix this would be get more diversity in developing team or then be happy with extremely exclusive games. Like what would Bioware be if Gaider would only wrote gay romances? No Morrigan, no bisexual Zevran and Fenris, no Cassandra etc. I doubt DA fandom would have been happier.

[Steelcan]

However if games were all about developers expressing their fantasies in terms of sexualities and so on it would limit and exclude players a lot, since all players who would want to play the game won't share developers gender and sexuality. Only thing to fix this would be get more diversity in developing team or then be happy with extremely exclusive games. Like what would Bioware be if Gaider would only wrote gay romances? No Morrigan, no bisexual Zevran and Fenris, no Cassandra etc. I doubt DA fandom would have been happier.

well first off its a good thing Gaider wasn't the only writer

[Panda]

well first off its a good thing Gaider wasn't the only writer

 

True, however he did write all those characters.

 

Though it would be very bad thing if all writers of the game went with this mentality and if they were homogenous group of people, part of players would always be excluded and games would be very non-diverse on their characters.

[In Exile]

Not everyone will agree that a developer having fetishwear on women only is an act of sexism, you know. It could very well be the dveloper exressing his/her sexuality.

The problem with this end->means in this case is that while not being sexist is a very noble goal, we don't exactly have a common consensus on what is and isn't sexist.

If developers wanted to make a game about women wearing fetish wear and their justification was "we want women to fear fetishwear because we want to have a game turn us on" we'd be having a really different conversation. Part of the issue here is that development isn't openly about sexual expression.

If it were then we'd have a different conversation about it.

More generally the fact we can't agree on a point is a separate issue from agreeing on the idea behind it. But there's never really a conversation - it's just a shouting match on both sides.

[TheOgre]

When I talk about content creators I meant everyone in the process, including EA. If they are the brains of the operation, imagine EA or whoever funds the project, imagine them as the rest of the body. Sometimes the brain wants something, but they can only imagine it and not manifest it 100% of their ideal since the guys funding it have feedback of their own. If Gaider were the only one making the decisions, your scenario may have been more likely. But a bunch of hands were on the project were inclusive/diverse. We had a wide example of really well made characters that were probably reviewed by a lot of writers and their looks/personas were evaluated by each member on the project.

 

FF's example, the rest of the body, or the brains, decided for whatever reason that they would rather a little more moderation for only Sasuke Look alike, where the other character wasn't so as they felt they were okay with it for Cidney / that bunny character. Are they as err 'progressive' as say Bioware? Maybe not, but that's their decision and maybe they will trend in that direction when they feel like it. 

[midnight tea]

Not everyone will agree that a developer having fetishwear on women only is an act of sexism, you know. It could very well be the dveloper exressing his/her sexuality.

 

The problem with this end->means in this case is that while not being sexist is a very noble goal, we don't exactly have a common consensus on what is and isn't sexist.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be an issue (or such an issue, I suppose) if having fetishwear on women is an act of expressing one's sexuality - problem is that for many years now, scantily clad women or women in fetishwear haven't been there really to "express their sexuality", but predominantly to titillate the target audience - it's not even any sort of trade secret. 

 

It's the context of how and why a given thing is in the game (or movie, or comic book) that's important, even if the line between what 's sexist and what's there to, say, express something or make a statement can be blurry at times.

[Panda]

When I talk about content creators I meant everyone in the process, including EA. If they are the brains of the operation, imagine EA or whoever funds the project, imagine them as the rest of the body. Sometimes the brain wants something, but they can only imagine it and not manifest it 100% of their ideal since the guys funding it have feedback of their own. If Gaider were the only one making the decisions, your scenario may have been more likely. But a bunch of hands were on the project were inclusive/diverse. We had a wide example of really well made characters that were probably reviewed by a lot of writers and their looks/personas were evaluated by each member on the project.

 

FF's example, the rest of the body, or the brains, decided for whatever reason that they would rather a little more moderation for only Sasuke Look alike, where the other character wasn't so as they felt they were okay with it for Cidney / that bunny character. Are they as err 'progressive' as say Bioware? Maybe not, but that's their decision and maybe they will trend in that direction when they feel like it. 

 

True, but creators shouldn't just do what turns them on, they should also think of their audience and bigger picture. If that happens then diversity to gaming developments would be mandatory. Luckily, I doubt many creators are that limited that they can't enjoy characters and stories that wouldn't involve their sex and sexuality.

 

Personally I think that including audience goes further than doing what ever creator wants, since games are still products in the end, not pieces of art or fanfiction that companies do only for themselves.

[TevinterSupremacist]

However if games were all about developers expressing their fantasies in terms of sexualities and so on it would limit and exclude players a lot, since all players who would want to play the game won't share developers gender and sexuality. Only thing to fix this would be get more diversity in developing team or then be happy with extremely exclusive games.

While having diverse games is perfectly fine and welcome, the opposite isn't necessarily wrong or something that needs fixing in itself. It's not like people are entitled to the existence of games that cater to their tastes, you're not being wronged in some way, if games that appeal to you don't exist.

 

 

If developers wanted to make a game about women wearing fetish wear and their justification was "we want women to fear fetishwear because we want to have a game turn us on" we'd be having a really different conversation. Part of the issue here is that development isn't openly about sexual expression.

 

Of course it's not openly about sexual expression. I doubt all game designers who create female characters in fetish wear consistently do so consciously. That still doesn't make it wrong. It can still be an expression of sexuality, just a subconscious one. Still fine.

 

 

It wouldn't be an issue (or such an issue, I suppose) if having fetishwear on women is an act of expressing one's sexuality - problem is that for many years now, scantily clad women or women in fetishwear haven't been there really to "express their sexuality", but predominantly to titillate the target audience - it's not even any sort of trade secret. 

I disagree. I believe most people who create fictional universes create something that they themselves would enjoy and the target audience happens to become the people who share their tastes.

 

But even if we accept your premise, that it is an attempt at titillation (which of course brings us to a different discussion than the one we're having), it's not like titillation is "inferior" as a form of entertainment from fiction, compared to humor, thrill, drama, horror, etc.

[Seraphim24]

 

When will the absuridity regarding "titillation" ever die I wonder.... games are chock full of violence, chaos, or even in something like DA threesomes and yet somehow people freak when someone shows cleavage.

 

Generally speaking, if you freak out not when someone is killing or mini-orgying, but when someone is doing neither but shows some cleavage or stomatch or something, that's backwards.

[In Exile]

When will the absuridity regarding "titillation" ever die I wonder.... games are chock full of violence, chaos, or even in something like DA threesomes and yet somehow people freak when someone shows cleavage.

Generally speaking, if you freak out not when someone is killing or mini-orgying, but when someone is doing neither but shows some cleavage or stomatch or something, that's backwards.

There's nothing wrong with sexualised content when it's openly and admittedly done for that purpose (at least in my view). We can have other debates about it at that point but the issue here is the excuse and veener applied to it.

[Panda]

 

 

When will the absuridity regarding "titillation" ever die I wonder.... games are chock full of violence, chaos, or even in something like DA threesomes and yet somehow people freak when someone shows cleavage.

 

Generally speaking, if you freak out not when someone is killing or mini-orgying, but when someone is doing neither but shows some cleavage or stomatch or something, that's backwards.

 

 

I think most have problem with how inequal this showing cleavage is between male and female characters. If you want to make characters sexy, make both sexes equally sexy. Otherwise the game is simply fanservice to one group and exclusive to other group. Majority of games shouldn't be that way and female gamers should be able to play female character that isn't fanservice to male players and see female characters in the games that aren't fanservice to male players either.

[Pasquale1234]

If developers wanted to make a game about women wearing fetish wear and their justification was "we want women to fear fetishwear because we want to have a game turn us on" we'd be having a really different conversation. Part of the issue here is that development isn't openly about sexual expression.

Putting characters in outfits that frighten them would be a unique approach.

(Yeah, I expect that's a typo, but I couldn't resist. It made me lol...)

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

If there was any topic that warranted 56 pages worth of discussion, it certainly wasn't this one.

Still, at least we all know how to bring mass community attention to a subject though. If, for example, you'd like to suggest improvements to the war table, don't simply title your thread "War Table Suggestions". Lol, nobody's going to read that! No, you title it "Boobs War Breasts Table Panties Suggestions!" There you go! That's a 107 page thread right there!

[TheOgre]

If there was any topic that warranted 56 pages worth of discussion, it certainly wasn't this one.

Still, at least we all know how to bring mass community attention to a subject though. If, for example, you'd like to suggest improvements to the war table, don't simply title your thread "War Table Suggestions". Lol, nobody's going to read that! No, you title it "Boobs War Breasts Table Panties Suggestions!" There you go! That's a 107 page thread right there!

 

... Are you really complaining about something SO obvious? Nothing's controversial about War Table Suggestions. Everything is controversial about 'skin' even though we play a game where people murder humans, racial prejudice and what have you are also themes.

[TevinterSupremacist]

If there was any topic that warranted 56 pages worth of discussion, it certainly wasn't this one.

Still, at least we all know how to bring mass community attention to a subject though. If, for example, you'd like to suggest improvements to the war table, don't simply title your thread "War Table Suggestions". Lol, nobody's going to read that! No, you title it "Boobs War Breasts Table Panties Suggestions!" There you go! That's a 107 page thread right there!

Thanks for participating in a thread you value so much, it really promotes the discussion.

[Seraphim24]

There's nothing wrong with sexualised content when it's openly and admittedly done for that purpose (at least in my view). We can have other debates about it at that point but the issue here is the excuse and veener applied to it.

 

Well that just raises this question

 

If there was any topic that warranted 56 pages worth of discussion, it certainly wasn't this one.

Still, at least we all know how to bring mass community attention to a subject though. If, for example, you'd like to suggest improvements to the war table, don't simply title your thread "War Table Suggestions". Lol, nobody's going to read that! No, you title it "Boobs War Breasts Table Panties Suggestions!" There you go! That's a 107 page thread right there!

 

Why so much energy and attention on the topic then? Why is it of such critical importance? Aren't there other things to focus on game-wise?

 

Why aren't we have the point behind the foursome in Origins? What was the narrative purpose of that? Was that realistic? Do people not potentially get STDs from practicing sex in this era?

 

Is it realistic for your commander and first sword and second assistant, and a pirate you just met, to all screw each other and then continue on business as usual as if nothing ever happened?

 

Of course not, there would be jealousy, envy, lingering hatreds/resentments/feelings and a whole host of issues. The fact that the DA devs and fans gloss over these things but go in depth with discussions of pounds per square inch on breast plates of the middle ages when it becomes to a bit of cleavage show how little they understand about sexual relations.

 

No, you don't get any of the same level of scrutiny, consequently it still seems off.

 

Is it realistic to have characters be standing there and like you more the more gifts you give them without any kind of conversation? Is it realistic for anyone to want to continue a relationship with you after you have been with even one other person for a short time? Is it realistic for characters to change their personalities and desires to fit your needs?

 

No I'm afraid DA has serious problems in just about every other aspect as far as "reality" goes when it comes to sex, but my point is the only place this comes up is when you have the cleavage girl or guy in costume, which incidentally, by comparison to the others, is perhaps one of the least offending.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Thanks for participating in a thread you value so much, it really promotes the discussion.

I apologize then. Clearly, I've undervalued the significance of pronounced metallic, boobie-shaped boobie-holding armor detailing. At 56 pages in, it seems we've only barely begun to scratch the surface of this criminally overlooked aspect of gaming and I'm off now to launch a Kickstarter campaign in defense of this thread.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I apologize then. Clearly, I've undervalued the significance of pronounced metallic, boobie-shaped boobie-holding armor detailing. At 56 pages in, it seems we've only barely begun to scratch the surface of this criminally overlooked aspect of gaming and I'm off now to launch a Kickstarter campaign in defense of this thread.

Point.

*air*

*more air*

*a bird about to poop midlifght*

*dangerously little air*

your head

 

The point was , stop contributing to discussions you're not interested, not getting replies is how discussions die, since they don't get "bumped" and the longer they stay non-bumped, the less likely it's for someone to see them. Plus, making other people read "Oh gosh, I'm not really interested in what you say, look at me not caring about the banalities you discuss" is a tad impolite.

[TheOgre]

I apologize then. Clearly, I've undervalued the significance of pronounced metallic, boobie-shaped boobie-holding armor detailing. At 56 pages in, it seems we've only barely begun to scratch the surface of this criminally overlooked aspect of gaming and I'm off now to launch a Kickstarter campaign in defense of this thread.

 

The technical issues of the game have been talked about to death that no one seems to give a crap about it anymore. So sorry that your mad about people talking about other feedback suggestions.

 

Your level of mad right now needs to come down to a 5, a level 9 will cause a lock.

[The Baconer]

Your level of mad right now needs to come down to a 5, a level 9 will cause a lock.

 

That wouldn't be so terrible, by this point.

[TheOgre]

If I don't care about it no one else should is one of the most baffling instincts in human nature. You don't seem to care one way or the other so why post baconer?

[TevinterSupremacist]

If I don't care about it no one else should is one of the most baffling instincts in human nature. You don't seem to care one way or the other so why post baconer?

I don't think the people who take time to enter a thread and post are in fact utterly indifferent to what's being discussed. I don't care about Sera, you don't see me posting in her fan thread, though.