1832 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOgre]

He's not totally naked you know. He could have an entire freaking vitaar tattoo from his waist all the way to his toes for all we know. Hell, with that much vitaar he probably could get away with having a bare chest, his skin will be like silverite or something. Vitaar makes all their skin harden, not just the skin exactly where it's applied. He could put it on just his damned penis and get the defense boost from it.

 

In DA2 they had vitaar on the torso and on the arms a bit. Then again they change designs so much based on Gaider's mood from game to game it's hard to use just DA2 as an example. DAO had cup armor. I already said I preferred Meredith's armor.

 

I like Bull's design too by the way, or at least the body, and that he shows off his muscles. My point is they want to go for practical, there's ways to compensate, i.e, Meredith.

 

At least a bare chest means no broken sternums unless a guy with a greathammer nails him in the exact right spot. A bare chest is arguably safer than armor with boob points.

 

True, it just means that his gut is open for spearmen to impale with a long spikey and thick polearm, and the myriad of beasts with massive claws and fangs that can just take the biggest bite of meat that they can.

[midnight tea]

Clearly there is when the same word keeps being thrown around.. Practical..

 

Please don't act like this is just a one sided thing.

 

And his harness/armor in general IS yet more practical than many designs argued for. Which is really ironic, if you think about it.

 

 

Also - how has this not been made one-sided? There are people here who, consistently, think that if they mention Iron Bull they apparently win something here - despite it being explained dozens of time, by different people, why Bull's naked chest isn't a non-issue, at least in context of this discussion.

 

It isn't there for the sole reason of "sexualizing" him, he's not the only person who picks armor or clothing not based on 100% functionality and their choices concerning armors and outfits are pointed out and discussed in games themselves (as mentioned, none of those "impractical" clothes/armors come even close to being as ridiculous as some problematic designs discussed here), so any accusations of lack of awareness can be easily thrown out of the window.

[Pasquale1234]

In DA2 they had vitaar on the torso and on the arms a bit. Then again they change designs so much based on Gaider's mood, it's hard to use just DA2 as an example. DAO had cup armor. I already said I preferred Meredith's armor.

Just a note - Gaider was the lead writer, not the art director.

IIRC from reading his blog - the writers do have some input wrt character design, VA selection, etc., but the final decisions are not theirs to make.

[TheOgre]

Just a note - Gaider was the lead writer, not the art director.

IIRC from reading his blog - the writers do have some input wrt character design, VA selection, etc., but the final decisions are not theirs to make.

 

My mistake, I'll edit my post.

[Grieving Natashina]

Just a note - Gaider was the lead writer, not the art director.

IIRC from reading his blog - the writers do have some input wrt character design, VA selection, etc., but the final decisions are not theirs to make.

If anything, most of the final say really lies with Mike Laidlaw, Lead Project Head for DA.

[andy6915]

True, it just means that his gut is open for spearmen to impale with a long spikey and thick polearm, and the myriad of beasts with massive claws and fangs that can just take the biggest bite of meat that they can.

And you know what? Your chances of surviving all that are greater than a shattered sternum. I don't think you understand how fatal that is. If that bone shatters, you have a few minutes of absolute agony as you die... For absolute certainty. A spear, claws, fangs? Medical science back then was at least good at dealing with those kind of injuries. It was actual medicine they lacked in in medieval times, but patching up impalement and bad lacerations and even cut-off limbs was definitely something they could handle. Shattered sternum? Your chances of survival are slim today, in the modern era.

[TheOgre]

And you know what? Your chances of surviving all that are greater than a shattered sternum. I don't think you understand how fatal that is. If that bone shatters, you have a few minutes of absolute agony as you die... For absolute certainty. A spear, claws, fangs? Medical science back then was at least good at dealing with those kind of injuries. It was actual medicine they lacked in in medieval times, but patching up impalement and bad lacerations and even cut-off limbs was definitely something they could handle. Shattered sternum? Your chances of survival are slim to none today, in the modern era.

 

I actually do understand how dangerous it is for a sternum to break. 

 

I also understand that if you are skewered in the stomach, your chances of survival are nearly nill. If your chest is exposed and an arrow its at just the right angle, or if an axe chops there, your done. 

 

His design undermines practicality without vitaar. Practicality, or being smart with your life based on armor, still has risk as your going into combat at all times. Spears can still pass through that armor, teeth can (at the right density and sharpness of the tooth), spells can fry you if your armor is not enchanted. It significantly reduces your chances of being killed on the first blow or the second. That's the goal of armor. Vitaar as a replacement is fine and a cool concept, but I don't see him wearing any on his chest or arms. Otherwise it's just an eyeroll whenever that conversation comes up.

[andy6915]

I actually do understand how dangerous it is for a sternum to break. 
 
I also understand that if you are skewered in the stomach, your chances of survival are nearly nill. If your chest is exposed and an arrow its at just the right angle, or if an axe chops there, your done. 
 
His design undermines practicality without vitaar. Practicality, or being smart with your life based on armor, still has risk as your going into combat at all times. Spears can still pass through that armor, teeth can (at the right density and sharpness of the tooth), spells can fry you if your armor is not enchanted. It significantly reduces your chances of being killed on the first blow or the second. That's the goal of armor. Vitaar as a replacement is fine and a cool concept, but I don't see him wearing any on his chest or arms. Otherwise it's just an eyeroll whenever that conversation comes up.

 
I. Said. Before. That. It. Doesn't. Matter. Where. It. Is. On. The. Body.
 
"He's not totally naked you know. He could have an entire freaking vitaar tattoo from his waist all the way to his toes for all we know. Hell, with that much vitaar he probably could get away with having a bare chest, his skin will be like silverite or something. Vitaar makes all their skin harden, not just the skin exactly where it's applied. He could put it on just his damned penis and get the defense boost from it."
 
Are you even reading what I type???

[TheOgre]

 
I. Said. Before. That. It. Doesn't. Matter. Where. It. Is. On. The. Body.
 
"He's not totally naked you know. He could have an entire freaking vitaar tattoo from his waist all the way to his toes for all we know. Hell, with that much vitaar he probably could get away with having a bare chest, his skin will be like silverite or something. Vitaar makes all their skin harden, not just the skin exactly where it's applied. He could put it on just his damned penis and get the defense boost from it."
 
Are you even reading what I type???

 

I did read it. Did you read what I said about DA2? Qunari had war paint from their forehead, down to their chest. Given that the art (on the cards at the start of the game) suggests they paint their body, I don't agree with your, if you put it on your head your fine unless they themselves specifically say it's okay if you put it on your head.

[midnight tea]

Welcome to the long awaited ignore.

 

Welp, I suppose I should have expected that.

[Seraphim24]

@Kefka112

 

1. Women in video games are still characters and it's developer who choses clothing for them and that that these female characters decide to wear next to nothing when going in fight compared to male characters. They do this to provide fanservice (straight) male players in terms of having sexy-looking female characters in the game. However this also gives impression that female characters must always be sexy since it has become a norm people freak out when suddenly there is female character who isn't sexualised as much as they are used to. Like Cassandra.

 

2. So I think this is about me wanting games that do revealing armor to women to do that to male characters as well? Hmm, you are true that it might be objectification of male characters. Still, if it fits to art style and what developer is going with their fiction I'm not that much against it. And if these characters are still written well and they aren't left to just fanservice characters I don't think they are too objectified even if they are dressed up sexily, take Zevran for example (though he doesn't exactly have ridiculous sexy armor his armor still show tights just like female ver of same armor does). But if game wants to do all characters one-sided and sexualised I think that's their call to make, I think it's better than making just female characters like that.

 

I do have problems with South Korean and Chinese MMRPG's. I'm woman and I want to play my MMORPG character mostly as woman, because in MMORPG you aren't writing story of character like for example in ME and DA (where I like play both genders), you are being yourself instead of roleplaying much. So when my character, that is me so I'm forced, wearing something very skimpy and ridiculous compared to male characters, it doesn't set well with me. Even less when I'm middle school kid who wants go on adventure in the game instead of being sexy woman or sth. I really wonder why game where you play as yourself (other players speak to you as you are yourself behind screen not character in the game) forces female players to wear these things, do they want female players to be fanservice or what. Though there is aspect to this that some female players do like wearing sexy armors in the games and liking it's aesthetic. Despite that I think it's still wrong to force all female players dress up like that when all male PC has covering armor (though some might stay that it's not fair for male players either to have to use always covering armor without choice of sexy, but intrestingly I haven't ever seen any male player complaining that they can't wear sexy armors in the games).

 

I guess you there found reason why I don't like S.K and Chinese MMORPG's armors for female PC. Cause I'm forced to wear those things if I play the game and I haven't really given much choice even in terms of choosing then to play different MMORPG, since almost all follow "reasonable armor to men and ridiculously sexy to women"-norm so I have to play with sexy armor or not play at all.

 

"Anyway, the point is, there is kind of style that people don't like, as someone else suggested, it's when it's thrown out there without any attention put into the reasons or source behind it. That is why I had the discussion earlier with someone about whether it was acceptable to have no armor as long as reasons were given for it, and the answer was yes, you can do anything as long as there is an explanation. That sounds like the reason it bothers people."

 

Reason or source behind having no armor or sexy armor would be something cultural like with Iron Bull? That's somewhat acceptable, but it might be still be excuse to only provide fanservice to male players if this culture doesn't dress sexes in equally revealing clothing. I'm fine with game having for example barbarian culture where both sexes wear skimpy clothing.

 

 

The reasons why I'm still against this inequality of clothing in games:

 

1. Oversexualisation of female characters compared to male and making it mandatory that female characters need always be sexy.
2. Provides fanservice only to male players.
3. Excluding female players who don't want to wear sexy clothing and aren't given choice.

Huh, you are right. This is exchausting.

 

First of all you are in middle school?? I did not see that coming...

 

Anyway, by the end of that you basically were just saying what I said, minus the parts that there is something inherently wrong with "sexy," or something. I can like the fact that Cassandra is not like most of the other women in gaming, but also dislike the fact that Cassandra is not like some of the other women in gaming, that's really what it comes down to IMO. An ideal character for me would blend the best elements of both worlds.

 

As to why the SK games are the way they are well I think pretty much that being sexy kind of is mandatory (for females and males) in those games when the game itself is just a WoW clone most of the time. It kind of depends on need to be honest.

[Panda]

First of all you are in middle school?? I did not see that coming.... I guess I just can't imagine being pre-occupied with matters of social justice at that age..... or something.

 

Anyway, by the end of that you basically were just saying what I said, minus the parts that there is something inherently wrong with "sexy," or something. I can like the fact that Cassandra is not like most of the other women in gaming, but also dislike the fact that Cassandra is not like some of the other women in gaming, that's really what it comes down to IMO.

 

An ideal character for me would blend the best elements of both worlds.

 

No, I'm not in middle school, I was refering the time I played MMORPG's most.

 

I don't really think I'm saying what you are or that you are getting my point, but I guess it's fine.

[midnight tea]

It does seem that all the facepaint vitaars in DAI only give attribute bonuses, attack and critical. I don't see any that directly confer defensive stats.

But given that even the facepaint doesn't cover the entire face to give full body effects like that, I doubt body paint for defense would need to be comprehensive either.

edit: somehow I got typing this in two different windows...

 

Few vitaars give increased constitution - though I think it's established in lore (http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Vitaar) that all/many vitaars may have ability to harden skin of the qunari, aside from stats listed in DAI.

 

Either way - it's weird to bring the fact that vitaar doesn't have to cover entire body to work as some sort of flaw in its concept, considering that it works on Qunari only, and qunari are magical, possibly half-dragon creatures, bred and not born and the game even hints at them being created in some sort of magical experiment or purpose (vitaars kind of remind me of Witcher's toxic potions and some of these potions offer defensive bonuses as well).

 

There's really nothing in vitaar that doesn't make it work within the rules of its own world - the codex I've linked even mentions that it has similar to protective properties of lyrium runes: and lyrium runes don't need to be stamped all over the body or armor in order to offer magical protection, at least as far as I know.

[Seraphim24]

No, I'm not in middle school, I was refering the time I played MMORPG's most.

 

I don't really think I'm saying what you are or that you are getting my point, but I guess it's fine.

 

Well no you said the same point about "it's when it's thrown out when no reasons are suggested," as well as the part about it being problematic for guys if it's not actually really ok for females.

 

Anyway, Cassandra would be cooler if someone made her more intense and sexual in some ways, but not if they also sacrificed her personality, those things aren't mutually exclusive.

[Panda]

Well no you said the same point about "it's when it's thrown out when no reasons are suggested," as well as the part about it being problematic for guys if it's not actually really ok for females.

 

Anyway, Cassandra would be cooler if someone made her more intense and sexual in some ways, but not if they also sacrificed her personality, those things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Personally Cassandra considered they are. Cassandra already is somewhat sexual, you can get scene with her where you have sex outside. But changing her armor to sexier would fight against her character. She's practical woman who goes duty first and doesn't seen to be intrested in being seductive or so on.

[midnight tea]

Well no you said the same point about "it's when it's thrown out when no reasons are suggested," as well as the part about it being problematic for guys if it's not actually really ok for females.

 

Anyway, Cassandra would be cooler if someone made her more intense and sexual in some ways, but not if they also sacrificed her personality, those things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

No, those things aren't mutually exclusive, but you'd have to sacrifice Cassandra's personality to make her that way. She doesn't consider herself sexy and graceful, she has some self-esteem issues and it's actually refreshing to see the woman kick ass as much as she does and yet deal with fairly realistic problems.

I mean, sexy, intense, kickass heroines have been done, multiple times already - though I'd argue that not that many have been done very successfully.

[Pasquale1234]

No, those things aren't mutually exclusive, but you'd have to sacrifice Cassandra's personality to make her that way. She doesn't consider herself sexy and graceful, she has some self-esteem issues and it's actually refreshing to see the woman kick ass as much as she does and yet deal with fairly realistic problems.

I mean, sexy, intense, kickass heroines have been done, multiple times already - though I'd argue that not that many have been done very successfully.

Might I suggest that some of the conversation is based on a *very* narrow view of what is sexy.

I personally find strong, courageous, competent women who leave something to the imagination very sexy and compelling. I'd like to unwrap the package myself, thanks.

Comparatively, women who run around exposing jiggly bits and whatnot just sort of look desperate and pathetic to me. No thanks.

[Seraphim24]

No, those things aren't mutually exclusive, but you'd have to sacrifice Cassandra's personality to make her that way. She doesn't consider herself sexy and graceful, she has some self-esteem issues and it's actually refreshing to see the woman kick ass as much as she does and yet deal with fairly realistic problems.

I mean, sexy, intense, kickass heroines have been done, multiple times already - though I'd argue that not that many have been done very successfully.

 

Those things aren't mutually exclusive, but they are is kind of what that read like haha.

 

You don't have to sacrifice any of Cassandra's personality to make her that way, you can be extremely sexy and confident and extremely realistic and unsure at the same time, does that make sense? It sounds contradictory but it's completely possible.

 

I personally find strong, courageous, competent women who leave something to the imagination very sexy and compelling. I'd like to unwrap the package myself, thanks.
 

 

Yeah, no reason she can't be strong, courage, competent and very sexy, none at all. I'd like to think my character in Dragon's Dogma is that way...

[TheOgre]

Might I suggest that some of the conversation is based on a *very* narrow view of what is sexy.

I personally find strong, courageous, competent women who leave something to the imagination very sexy and compelling. I'd like to unwrap the package myself, thanks.

Comparatively, women who run around exposing jiggly bits and whatnot just sort of look desperate and pathetic to me. No thanks.

 

Can agree, especially with that last part.

 

Give me an Aveline and I'll shut up. (Cassandra does not count for me sorry)

[midnight tea]

Might I suggest that some of the conversation is based on a *very* narrow view of what is sexy.

I personally find strong, courageous, competent women who leave something to the imagination very sexy and compelling. I'd like to unwrap the package myself, thanks.

Comparatively, women who run around exposing jiggly bits and whatnot just sort of look desperate and pathetic to me. No thanks.

 

That's true, actually. There are many things that can make a person "sexy", in both shallow or mature ways. Though in case of Cassandra I mostly meant her being confident with herself and her own body.

[Seraphim24]

That's true, actually. There are many things that can make a person "sexy", in both shallow or mature ways. Though in case of Cassandra I mostly meant her being confident with herself and her own body.

 

Yeah this delineation between "shallow" and "mature" kinds of sexy is pretty off to me, if it's hot it's hot, there's no "good" or "bad" kind.

 

Different kinds perhaps but I don't think one is inherently better than the other.

[midnight tea]

Yeah this delineation between "shallow" and "mature" kinds of sexy is pretty off to me, if it's hot it's hot, there's no "good" or "bad" kind.

 

Different kinds perhaps but I don't think one is inherently better than the other.

 

Well no - what's hot for you isn't "hot" for another person. It's a subjective thing, sometimes very much so - there are traits or features that are generally viewed as sexy, but that doesn't mean that all people find all of them sexy, at all times.

 

Take for example people who like obese women - for them they're VERY sexy, while they think that those with willowy frames are either uninteresting or maybe even disgusting. It can be the other way around. Some people find dominating personalities sexy; some are turned on by those who are submissive. Some people are intimidated by intelligence - for some, intelligence makes a person 300% sexier (for me, for example )

[The Baconer]

But Cassandra is very sexy.

[TheOgre]

But Cassandra is very sexy.

 

She looks okay to me, that wasn't my problem I swear it wasn't.

 

I eye rolled a lot when I saw Not-Brevnau's sketches and diagrams. Not everyone has the same tastes in looks.