1832 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

I'm not going for reality. I'm going for what's appropriate for the role. Front-line warriors wear metal armor, back-line mages and rogues wear cloth and leather armors. It's built into the world, even the mechanics of the game. And what I'm saying is that from what I've seen, it's easier to make good looking cloth and leather armors that account for female body shape than it is to make good-looking metal armor that accounts for female body shape. Which makes perfect sense. Cloth and leather are soft; they naturally mold to curves. Metal is...metal. The shape it has is the shape it has. And the attempts I've seen to shape it into breasts have largely come off as weird and awkward-looking. I much prefer the "boob shelf" solution, which can give the armor a feminine, hour-glass shape without overtly screaming "Look! I have boobs!" into my face. Here's an example of a design that I think does a good job in working with the feminine figure while still making for good, practical-looking armor.

Spoiler

If you're going for what is appropriate for the role and what is built into the game/world, there is no reason a breast plate(literal sense) is excluded from that. If impractical can be a natural part of the world, it's pretty on par. Metal can be shaped, we see that in both fictional and non-fictional instances. Whether or not it's "weird and/or awkward-shaped" is in the eye of the beholder and is subjective to the player.

Personally, I loved the default warrior armor in DA2. I was so happy when a gibbed came out so I could change the stats and wear it throughout the game. I do not like the armor you posted. It's aesthetic isn't pleasing to me, at all. That's really what it boils down to. That really is the meat of the dish.

We can debate about what is "practical and realistic" and what is "awkward" all day long, but it's still going to come down to "I don't like it." and "This is what I like." That is why having a bit of both is a good thing. I certainly wouldn't want you to be forced to wear the armor you think is weird and I certainly wouldn't want to wear the armor you posted. Options is what I am talking about.

[Terodil]

However, we can think what would be realistic for this world creators have build. What would be fitting and approriate.

Sigh. Yes, we can. Except now we are not talking about realistic any more, but realistic in a fantasy setting. Which is as spongy as it gets, so let's drop this 'realistic' nonsense altogether please.

There is nothing to say why, for example, we couldn't have a warrior ('tank') based on agility (see DA:O, IIRC) to dodge -- who would probably be very happy to have light, agile, and possibly form-fitting armor. In fact, we already had that class in the 'duelist' spec in DA:KW: Isabela.

[Panda]

Sigh. Yes, we can. Except now we are not talking about realistic any more, but realistic in a fantasy setting. Which is as spongy as it gets, so let's drop this 'realistic' nonsense altogether please.

There is nothing to say why, for example, we couldn't have a warrior ('tank') based on agility (see DA:O, IIRC) to dodge -- who would probably be very happy to have light, agile, and possibly form-fitting armor. In fact, we already had that class in the 'duelist' spec in DA:KW: Isabela.

 

Bioware has built Dragon Age so that warriors are front-line battlers, rogues either backstab and hide in shadows or shoot far away. Mages stay far away as well unless they are Knight-Enchanters with heavy armor. Front liners get heavy armor, back-liners get light armor. Heavy armor is usually more covering and light armor less, however it depends on character, their origin and personality. Heavy armored characters can take more dmg, light armor one's can't and that proves also that light, sometimes skin-fitting and revealing armor, is less defensible.

 

I don't really know what is hard with this concept.

[DomeWing333]

If you're going for what is appropriate for the role and what is built into the game/world, there is no reason a breast plate(literal sense) is excluded from that. If impractical can be a natural part of the world, it's pretty on par. Metal can be shaped, we see that in both fictional and non-fictional instances. Whether or not it's "weird and/or awkward-shaped" is in the eye of the beholder and is subjective to the player.

Personally, I loved the default warrior armor in DA2. I was so happy when a gibbed came out so I could change the stats and wear it throughout the game. I do not like the armor you posted. It's aesthetic isn't pleasing to me, at all. That's really what it boils down to. That really is the meat of the dish.

We can debate about what is "practical and realistic" and what is "awkward" all day long, but it's still going to come down to "I don't like it." and "This is what I like." That is why having a bit of both is a good thing. I certainly wouldn't want you to be forced to wear the armor you think is weird and I certainly wouldn't want to wear the armor you posted. Options is what I am talking about.

Oh, I'm not trying to exclude it. In fact, in the first post I made in this topic (near the bottom of page 4), I explained that I was open to the idea of "boob plate" armor. I just haven't seen many good executions of it.

 

And as we've seen with my example, the difference in aesthetic taste between players go far beyond whether or not an armor is shaped like breasts. Simply adding armor with boob-plate is hardly "having a bit of both." Armors should vary in many different ways, one of which may be having a boob plate but it's too specific to put much focus on.

[KBomb]

Rogues are mobile, they can dodge, evade and go in stealth. Mages have protective spells. Rogues in heavy armor wouldn't be able to move quickly and that would defeat their purpose.

Warrios whole purpose is: "Hit me". They even have taunts that make enemy focus them. So they need more protective armors. Unless they are qunari apparently ^^

Mages also cast barriers on warriors. Archers wouldn't (or shouldn't) be as mobile as a duel wielder and would only remain in stealth until they attacked-- a mage's barrier only lasts for so long, which would leave them open for a counter attack that is surely going to come. It's semantics. The same way a warrior can grapple an enemy over a long distance and combat roll. The same way a mage can wear cloth and maintain a barrier and throw combat spells, all without collapsing from exhaustion, or an archer can leap backwards in the air whilst shooting multiple arrows with precision. This may not be favored by all, but it is accepted as a built in mechanic, therefore has a place.

So does breast plates. They were in Origins, so it isn't like there isn't a setting for them. Some people dislike them and so it's labeled as "impractical or unrealistic". Fair enough. Don't equip them.

[Orian Tabris]

I'm just going to say that I think the female version of plate armour or whatever piece of chest armour should have a breast imprint/shape on them, but only as the female design for such armour, not as an option for female characters. However, the breast shape and size should be large enough that it looks like it could be comfortable, but not so large that it looks like fanservice (nor as open that it looks like fanservice).

 

Maybe there's no need for t!ts on the designs, though. I mean, nipples aren't in the same place on the chest for everyone - male or female (I assume males too) - so it would imply that the breasts are moved into that specific position, just to fit the artist's/blacksmith's idea of breast shape, even if it is uncomfortable (which would imply that it's not, even if it realistically should be for some). Also, generally if you're wearing armour, it's for the purpose of fighting, so you shouldn't even be thinking about being aroused, so why would it be there anyway?

 

The breastplate should fit the size of the race, so elves would have it smaller than qunari, thus the actual shape should be presupposed based on the design of each female version of race.

 

I just think it's better than assuming all women in Thedas can fit into the same chest armour as men, or that Thedosian blacksmiths won't account for a woman's comfort when crafting armour, just because breasts on armour is offensive to some real people, despite the fact that almost no one in real life even wears armour or knows someone who does.

 

As for abs on chest armour, I think it's silly if a rogue were to wear armour with abs, but for a warrior it makes some sense since they're so strength-oriented.

[9TailsFox]

I'm just going to say that I think the female version of plate armour or whatever piece of chest armour should have a breast imprint/shape on them, but only as the female design for such armour, not as an option for female characters. However, the breast shape and size should be large enough that it looks like it could be comfortable, but not so large that it looks like fanservice (nor as open that it looks like fanservice).

 

Maybe there's no need for t!ts on the designs, though. I mean, nipples aren't in the same place on the chest for everyone - male or female (I assume males too) - so it would imply that the breasts are moved into that specific position, just to fit the artist's/blacksmith's idea of breast shape, even if it is uncomfortable (which would imply that it's not, even if it realistically should be for some). Also, generally if you're wearing armour, it's for the purpose of fighting, so you shouldn't even be thinking about being aroused, so why would it be there anyway?

 

The breastplate should fit the size of the race, so elves would have it smaller than qunari, thus the actual shape should be presupposed based on the design of each female version of race.

 

I just think it's better than assuming all women in Thedas can fit into the same chest armour as men, or that Thedosian blacksmiths won't account for a woman's comfort when crafting armour, just because breasts on armour is offensive to some real people, despite the fact that almost no one in real life even wears armour or knows someone who does.

 

As for abs on chest armour, I think it's silly if a rogue were to wear armour with abs, but for a warrior it makes some sense since they're so strength-oriented.

I can put same armour on Cole, Sera and Varric. Human? Elf and Dwarf. You over thinking to much realism. Vivienne can tank a dragon without armour.

[9TailsFox]

Bioware has built Dragon Age so that warriors are front-line battlers, rogues either backstab and hide in shadows or shoot far away. Mages stay far away as well unless they are Knight-Enchanters with heavy armor. Front liners get heavy armor, back-liners get light armor. Heavy armor is usually more covering and light armor less, however it depends on character, their origin and personality. Heavy armored characters can take more dmg, light armor one's can't and that proves also that light, sometimes skin-fitting and revealing armor, is less defensible.

 

I don't really know what is hard with this concept.

My Knight-Enchanter don't have heavy armour. Vivienne have robes to. And can tank a dragon.

[KBomb]

I'm just going to say that I think the female version of plate armour or whatever piece of chest armour should have a breast imprint/shape on them, but only as the female design for such armour, not as an option for female characters. However, the breast shape and size should be large enough that it looks like it could be comfortable, but not so large that it looks like fanservice (nor as open that it looks like fanservice).

Maybe there's no need for t!ts on the designs, though. I mean, nipples aren't in the same place on the chest for everyone - male or female (I assume males too) - so it would imply that the breasts are moved into that specific position, just to fit the artist's/blacksmith's idea of breast shape, even if it is uncomfortable (which would imply that it's not, even if it realistically should be for some). Also, generally if you're wearing armour, it's for the purpose of fighting, so you shouldn't even be thinking about being aroused, so why would it be there anyway?

The breastplate should fit the size of the race, so elves would have it smaller than qunari, thus the actual shape should be presupposed based on the design of each female version of race.

I just think it's better than assuming all women in Thedas can fit into the same chest armour as men, or that Thedosian blacksmiths won't account for a woman's comfort when crafting armour, just because breasts on armour is offensive to some real people, despite the fact that almost no one in real life even wears armour or knows someone who does.

As for abs on chest armour, I think it's silly if a rogue were to wear armour with abs, but for a warrior it makes some sense since they're so strength-oriented.

There was some rogue armor in Origins that had abs. I never wore it unless I had to ( in the beginning of the Cousland origin ) as I thought it was ugly. I always switched with my "mom" and took her armor. Still, it was an option and I had no issue with it being in the game.

[Panda]

My Knight-Enchanter don't have heavy armour. Vivienne have robes to. And can tank a dragon.

 

Ah true, my bad, Arcane Warriors wear armor.

 

Mages also cast barriers on warriors. Archers wouldn't (or shouldn't) be as mobile as a duel wielder and would only remain in stealth until they attacked-- a mage's barrier only lasts for so long, which would leave them open for a counter attack that is surely going to come. It's semantics. The same way a warrior can grapple an enemy over a long distance and combat roll. The same way a mage can wear cloth and maintain a barrier and throw combat spells, all without collapsing from exhaustion, or an archer can leap backwards in the air whilst shooting multiple arrows with precision. This may not be favored by all, but it is accepted as a built in mechanic, therefore has a place.

So does breast plates. They were in Origins, so it isn't like there isn't a setting for them. Some people dislike them and so it's labeled as "impractical or unrealistic". Fair enough. Don't equip them.

 

True, but mages can't cast rock armor on them. The thing is that mages and rogues are dmg/mobility focused and thus in fantasy games tend to wear less than warriors. They also take more dmg, because of it. Warriors wearing less would mean that they take more dmg as well following same logic, but that would defeat whole purpose of the class. So that's what I'm talking about.

 

I don't have that big problem with breast plates, I just wonder why they are so wanted, it's not like they are mandatory to have in every fantasy game? And best armors in DAO didn't have breast plates either, I think mostly medium armours did and heavy was more full-plate. 

[PhroXenGold]

(sigh)

 

 

Barring the helmet, I actually prefer the last one. Because it doesn't even make any pretense of protecting. The other two are every bit as utterly useless as armour, but still try to pretend they do something.

[Xerxes52]

Armour who need armour? Armour is for weak.

 

Must be some amazing paint. Those Avvar were freakin' tough.

 

Inquisitor: Hey Cass I have some new armor for you.

 

Cassandra: It's just two buckets of black and white paint.

 

Inquisitor: It's a new Tier 4 armor, its armor rating is twice that of your current set! And um, somehow it offers 80% cold resistance and +20 to all stats.

 

Cassandra: (Disgusted Noise)

 

Inquisitor: Oh and don't forget your Magic Ice Sword.

[Orian Tabris]

I can put same armour on Cole, Sera and Varric. Human? Elf and Dwarf. You over thinking to much realism. Vivienne can tank a dragon without armour.

 

Where in my post did I say that armour had to have restrictions on who can and can't wear it? Nowhere. In fact, I never specified who wears what, instead I was talking about how armour should look on different people.

 

I also never questioned a class' ability to fight or take a hit.

 

Appearance of armour is the focus of my post, not its usability.

[Winged Silver]

Unless his skin is a unique hybrid special skin that can deflect arrows where normal human skin can't,  I'm with Hanako on this one... a half naked man with complete chest exposure complimenting Cassandra on her attention to pragmatism with armor is kind of absurd.

 

Well actually 

 

In some of IB's armor, he has a design (the Vitaar) on his body. According to the codexes, that's some magic paint or what have you that works as magical defense

 

If you're interested:

http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Vitaar

 

I think keeping the Qunari shirtless wasn't an issue in of itself, but I do think they should have perhaps utilized the concept of the Vitaar more (or at least explained it better). In DA2, almost every Qunari we ran across had the markings on his body, which, from this codex, I would hazard to say served as armor. I think the Iron Bull should have been seen wearing this stuff in more schematics.

[Wulfram]

"Boob plate" would fit in well with the general style of armour in Dragon Age, which is far from being rigorously realistic, and Iron Bull's dialogue is a bit silly considering his own attire.

But I don't personally see any need for boob armour. And Cassandra's armour actually does a good job at suggesting a feminine form as it is.

[Toasted Llama]

Dragons, elves, dwarves, wyverns, demons, zombies, mages wearing simply cloth not getting one-shotted by archers, magical friggin paint armor, amors with spikes that penetrate your brain if you lift your arm too high, petite little elves holding two-handed swords twice their own size...


But boob armor? MUH REALIZM!

 

 

Meanwhile in another thread; BIOWARE WHERE IS MY VICTORIA SECRET HAIRSTYLES?!


Good job BSN. Good job.

[MisterJB]

 

I am not an expert on armor or anything but I know I wouldn't feel safe going into battle wearing one that perfectly outlined my penis and testicles so I can only assume the same applies to women.
 

 

[Inex]

Dragons, elves, dwarves, wyverns, demons, zombies, mages wearing simply cloth not getting one-shotted by archers, magical friggin paint armor, amors with spikes that penetrate your brain if you lift your arm too high, petite little elves holding two-handed swords twice their own size...

 

You forgot to mention your characters can survive a huge fireball thrown at them by a dragon even when wearing cloth, you can jump off cliffs and simply drink a potion to restore your health while keeping your legs intact, it takes tons of arrows and sword attacks to kill a single light armor soldier and the list goes on...

[dirk5027]

Boobies, butts, biceps and bulges I want it all

Carry on

[DomeWing333]

And Cassandra's armour actually does a good job at suggesting a feminine form as it is.

I thought so too. I think the cloth that drapes over her front occludes it a bit, but the metal part of her armor is actually quite form-fitting. Not quite boob plate but certainly a curved shelf of sorts. It's more apparent in her non-battle attire.

 

[Terodil]

Face it people. This is not about realistic or unrealistic, about making sense or not. It's simply a matter of taste.
 
Or are you seriously trying to tell me that that magic armour made from obsidian (which is, in reality, a very brittle material prone to fracturing into thousands of very sharp little bits, by the way) that also miraculously conveys bonuses to magic resistance and constitution fails to secure structural integrity around the female chest area only so that there is the serious, practical risk of that part caving in in battle? SERIOUSLY?

[9TailsFox]

Well actually 

 

In some of IB's armor, he has a design (the Vitaar) on his body. According to the codexes, that's some magic paint or what have you that works as magical defense

 

If you're interested:

http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Vitaar

 

I think keeping the Qunari shirtless wasn't an issue in of itself, but I do think they should have perhaps utilized the concept of the Vitaar more (or at least explained it better). In DA2, almost every Qunari we ran across had the markings on his body, which, from this codex, I would hazard to say served as armor. I think the Iron Bull should have been seen wearing this stuff in more schematics.

I should just remove armour and role in mud(This is some good quality mud). Avvar are strongest in the game and they are half naked. Vitarr exist only because it's hard to make helmets for different types of horns. Or you honestly believe Bioware made something unique for Qunari for no reason.  

[AmberDragon]

BEHOLD! The Pillars of Eternity forums have also been blessed with his bounty.

 

I have no idea why.

Wow, from those responses you would think he would get the message!

[DomeWing333]

Face it people. This is not about realistic or unrealistic, about making sense or not. It's simply a matter of taste.
 
Or are you seriously trying to tell me that that magic armour made from obsidian (which is, in reality, a very brittle material prone to fracturing into thousands of very sharp little bits, by the way) that also miraculously conveys bonuses to magic resistance and constitution fails to secure structural integrity around the female chest area only so that there is the serious, practical risk of that part caving in in battle? SERIOUSLY?

I agree that it shouldn't be so much about realism in this case as the break from realism isn't that severe. However, I do think there's a limit at which it does become about realism and making sense.

 

If a poster came on here and said "I want new armors to have laser cannons and a jetpack," I think most of us would find that ridiculous because of how unfaithful that would be to the world. I don't think that would be a matter of taste; it would be a matter of something objectively clashing with the design of the world. Now, the poster could argue that his suggestion would only be one option among many and that he just wants to give the player choice in their attire...but I think the reasonable response would be to just tell him to go play Mass Effect.

[Terodil]

If a poster came on here and said "I want new armors to have laser cannons and a jetpack," I think most of us would find that ridiculous because of how unfaithful that would be to the world. I don't think that would be a matter of taste; it would be a matter of something objectively clashing with the design of the world. Now, the poster could argue that his suggestion would only be one option among many and that he just wants to give the player choice in their attire...but I think the reasonable response would be to just tell him to go play Mass Effect.

True! But this feels a bit like a strawman. I haven't seen that request either in this thread or in any other thread on this forum to date. There is a world of difference between asking for metal plate to be shaped in a different way on the one hand and asking for lasers and jetpacks on the other hand.