1832 réponses à ce sujet

[SofaJockey]

I am not an expert on armor or anything but I know I wouldn't feel safe going into battle wearing one that perfectly outlined my penis and testicle so I can only assume the same applies to women.

 

Interestingly King Henry VIII had a set with a rather prominent 'groin defence' (displayed at the Tower of London),

though this may have been a propaganda measure given his issues with fathering a son and heir.

 

 

Oh, and take care what you google our of curiosity, there are things I now want to unsee. certainly not safe for work  .

[BronzTrooper]

True! But this feels a bit like a strawman. I haven't seen that request either in this thread or in any other thread on this forum to date. There is a world of difference between asking for metal plate to be shaped in a different way on the one hand and asking for lasers and jetpacks on the other hand.

 

People have asked for guns in DA:I before.  Qunari are the only ones with black powder, and they only use it for cannons and explosives.  I could see them eventually manufacturing rudimentary firearms, but not for at least a few decades (most likely within 10-20 years of the end of the Dragon Age).

 

Honestly, I think that the same type of person was reading my SI (self-insert) fanfic for DA because I got a review on it asking when I was going to give my character guns.  

[BigEvil]

True! But this feels a bit like a strawman. I haven't seen that request either in this thread or in any other thread on this forum to date. There is a world of difference between asking for metal plate to be shaped in a different way on the one hand and asking for lasers and jetpacks on the other hand.

 

I don't think having a jetpack on someone's hand would be very effective at flying.

 

But I agree, the request of having armour someone finds more aesthetically pleasing isn't all that bad. Although I prefer the more practical armours, mostly because I've seen enough fantasy with boob-plate that it's a change. Variety is good.

 

Although the further thought occurs, since Iron Bull mentions some high-ranking women using the boob-plate and presumably there are men that might wear the whole Greek ab-plate things, it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea to include a couple examples for people that want the option. Much like I'm so glad that my mages no longer have to run around the frankly hideous, IMO, DA:O mage robes.

[DomeWing333]

True! But this feels a bit like a strawman. I haven't seen that request either in this thread or in any other thread on this forum to date. There is a world of difference between asking for metal plate to be shaped in a different way on the one hand and asking for lasers and jetpacks on the other hand.

Of course, that was an intentionally extreme example meant only to demonstrate two points. One, that there is a limit at which armor designs stop being about subjective taste that can be reasonably accommodated for and start being about an objective lack of realism which cannot and should not be accommodated for (where that limit is is more tricky). And two, that the realism we should focus on is realism to the fictional world rather than realism to the actual world. Lasers and jetpacks are things that exist in our world, fire magic and fade-touched veridium are not. And yet the former seems so much more ridiculous to include in Dragon Age than the latter.

[Terodil]

Although the further thought occurs, since Iron Bull mentions some high-ranking women using the boob-plate and presumably there are men that might wear the whole Greek ab-plate things, it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea to include a couple examples for people that want the option.

Indeed.

I just much prefer slimmer / form-fitting armours to those ridiculously bulky, hulking tin can armors -- for both male and female NPCs, just like I prefer finesse over brute strength for my melee chars if the game gives me the option. If I had the choice between the looks of a Hoplite or a Praetorian and, say, a D2 or D3 barb in full plate armor... I wouldn't even have to think! Count me in for Praetorian armor please.

Spoiler

 

Much like I'm so glad that my mages no longer have to run around the frankly hideous, IMO, DA:O mage robes.

OT: OMG, I want to like your post twice just for that. Those 'things' really got on my nerves, I'm actually willing to forgive BW 75% of their aesthetic blunders just for allowing my mage to wear pants and boots. The remaining 25% though...

[Terodil]

Of course, that was an intentionally extreme example meant only to demonstrate two points. [snip].

Both points are bloodless if you don't add the juice that you put into parantheses, the concrete question of where the line is. Nobody would disagree with so broad and general a statement.

So, let's hear it, since you quoted me on this, but avoided giving a concrete answer:
 

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that that magic armour made from obsidian (which is, in reality, a very brittle material prone to fracturing into thousands of very sharp little bits, by the way) that also miraculously conveys bonuses to magic resistance and constitution fails to secure structural integrity around the female chest area only so that there is the serious, practical risk of that part caving in in battle? SERIOUSLY?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Interestingly King Henry VIII had a set with a rather prominent 'groin defence' (displayed at the Tower of London),

though this may have been a propaganda measure given his issues with fathering a son and heir.

 

 

Oh, and take care what you google our of curiosity, there are things I now want to unsee. certainly not safe for work  .

Oh Henry VIII.

[AresKeith]

Wow, from those responses you would think he would get the message!

 

He didn't get the message on BSN

[Hazegurl]

I don't know if the OP is a troll or not, but he brings up a decent point.  It's not like boob plated armor never existed.

Spoiler

Although it was most likley ceremonial.

 

I personally see nothing wrong with boob plated and chest and ab armor. It's not like anyone would be forced to wear.  I don't see how it's any more ridiculous than IB wearing paint as armor.

[DomeWing333]

Both points are bloodless if you don't add the juice that you put into parantheses, the concrete question of where the line is. Nobody would disagree with so broad and general a statement.

So, let's hear it, since you quoted me on this, but avoided giving a concrete answer:
 

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that that magic armour made from obsidian (which is, in reality, a very brittle material prone to fracturing into thousands of very sharp little bits, by the way) that also miraculously conveys bonuses to magic resistance and constitution fails to secure structural integrity around the female chest area only so that there is the serious, practical risk of that part caving in in battle? SERIOUSLY?

Well to answer your quoted question, yes. Because that's what the game establishes. Iron Bull brings up that poor structure of the typical female breast plate can result in very messy battle injuries and it sounds like he speaks from experience. I don't see how this nitpicking of realism is any worse than your annoyance at the idea of enemies gaining levels with the player. People's suspension of disbelief fail at different points. It's not always clear how far it can be pushed when it comes to attire (I think bikini plate mail is probably a breaking point for most people), but it is somewhere.

[Terodil]

It's not what the game establishes, it's what IB says. And IB, as the dude that wades into every battle with no protective clothing whatsoever, is definitely not an authoritative source on why more feminine-shaped armor mysteriously fails at protecting the chest. Is the armor thinner there? Does the protrusion reach outside of the protective spells woven into the armor? Come on.

In short: [quotation needed] and [original research].

(If we were to take everything NPCs say as the words of truth, we'd all be busy hiding acorns in tree trunks.)

[DomeWing333]

It's not what the game establishes, it's what IB says. And IB, as the dude that wades into armor with no protective clothing whatsoever, is definitely not an authoritative source on why more feminine-shaped armor mysteriously fails at protecting the chest. Is the armor thinner there? Does the protrusion reach outside of the protective spells woven into the armor? Come on.

He explains why the armor fails at protecting the chest in that world. It's the same reason why the armor fails to protect the chest in the real world. Poor distribution of force. Metal cleavage on a chest plate causes the force delivered by a strong blow to concentrate on the sternum rather than be dissipated over the whole chest. It's physics. Engineering.

[Hazegurl]

@Terodil, True, I don't know why people bring up IB's opinion. The guy who walks around with his moobs out during battle and paint somehow provides some sort of magical defense for him. I honestly laughed when I heard that piece of banter.

 

@Dome, but does it make sense that all of Thedas would suddenly stop making said armor because of IB's opinion during a private convo? If a warrior et al wanted to wear the armor for looks rather than protection, the same as IB wearing paint (cause I don't for a second believe that is protective in any way) then why shouldn't they wear it?

[DomeWing333]

@Dome, but does it make sense that all of Thedas would suddenly stop making said armor because of IB's opinion during a private convo? If a warrior et al wanted to wear the armor for looks rather than protection, the same as IB wearing paint (cause I don't for a second believe that is protective in any way) then why shouldn't they wear it?

Oh, they absolutely should. That's the point that I made in my first post. Here, I'll quote it again: 

I'm not against the idea of boob plate armor. I can overlook the lack of realism and the very dialogue that addresses Cassandra's lack of boob plate armor also establishes it as a practice in the DA universe. Iron Bull is surprised that a high-ranking woman like Cassandra wouldn't have boob plate armor, implying that many do.
 
If they were to introduce a female character in the next game who's a high ranking warrior like Cassandra but is unlike Cassandra in that she places higher value on appearance than practicality, then I would have no problem even if they made her default armor a boob plate armor. It's all a matter of context.

My ONLY problems with boob plate armor is when it's inappropriate for a character and when it looks stupid.

[DomeWing333]

Here's a very good article on the whole female armor thing in general and the boob plate thing in particular: http://madartlab.com...-and-lady-bits/

[Panda]

Interestingly King Henry VIII had a set with a rather prominent 'groin defence' (displayed at the Tower of London),

though this may have been a propaganda measure given his issues with fathering a son and heir.

 

 

Oh, and take care what you google our of curiosity, there are things I now want to unsee. certainly not safe for work  .

 

Actually royal men wore armors that highlighted their private parts, not because they are defensible, but to brag about size of their dicks. We had some pictures in history books during high school as well Their dicks were actually lot smaller, those things worked like push-up bra's, with lot of filling, feathers mostly if I remember right. I think they are mostly ceremonial armors, for reason to portray ruler in good light.

[trevelyan_shep]

Boob plated armor just looks disgusting, tbh.

[Heathen Oxman]

*sigh*

 

I'd take wearing boob-plate armor over those horrendous tan pajamas in Skyhold anyday.........

 

As for realism, I can't comment seeing as how I put one of my FemSheps in bright pink armor (which is an utterly lousy idea from a military standpoint), but I just wanted my enemies to know they were getting their butt whooped by a girl.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Lol, nipples on armor!

[General TSAR]

Nah.

 

Boob armor looks stupid in general, no need for PC garbage. 

[Lady Artifice]

I don't mind the prioritization of aesthetics over believability, and I agree with DomeWing entirely regarding buxom breastplates. They can be pretty, and they can be ridiculous, sometimes to the point of a king of ugliness. It depends on the specific design. The image he provided was lovely, and believable enough for me. 

 

BEHOLD! The Pillars of Eternity forums have also been blessed with his bounty.

 

I have no idea why.

 

On the other hand, not-Brevnau is so obsessive in his focus and abrasive in his delivery that I dislike supporting him on much anything. Ah, well. C'est la vie. 

[Hazegurl]

Oh, they absolutely should. That's the point that I made in my first post. Here, I'll quote it again: 

My ONLY problems with boob plate armor is when it's inappropriate for a character and when it looks stupid.

But who is arguing to put Cass in it by default?  It seems like people are asking for it to be available for their own characters. If that is the case, then whocares about the context, appropriateness, character's position in society et al.  If the player likes it and wants to wear it then they should. 

[9TailsFox]

I agree that it shouldn't be so much about realism in this case as the break from realism isn't that severe. However, I do think there's a limit at which it does become about realism and making sense.

 

If a poster came on here and said "I want new armors to have laser cannons and a jetpack," I think most of us would find that ridiculous because of how unfaithful that would be to the world. I don't think that would be a matter of taste; it would be a matter of something objectively clashing with the design of the world. Now, the poster could argue that his suggestion would only be one option among many and that he just wants to give the player choice in their attire...but I think the reasonable response would be to just tell him to go play Mass Effect.

But jetpack are cool. Dragon with jetpack because why not.

[DomeWing333]

But who is arguing to put Cass in it by default?  It seems like people are asking for it to be available for their own characters. If that is the case, then whocares about the context, appropriateness, character's position in society et al.  If the player likes it and wants to wear it then they should. 

I just felt the need to clarify based on the OP's...history regarding Cassandra. Not every female character needs to have boob plate armor, even if it's optional. It should depend on their personality and values. But if it's the player character, then yeah, I don't care because we decide their personality and values. If they give us the option to play sexual, flirty characters or fancy, fashion-oriented characters, it only makes sense that our armor would be given the potential to reflect that.