1832 réponses à ce sujet

[Terodil]

He explains why the armor fails at protecting the chest in that world. It's the same reason why the armor fails to protect the chest in the real world. Poor distribution of force. Metal cleavage on a chest plate causes the force delivered by a strong blow to concentrate on the sternum rather than be dissipated over the whole chest. It's physics. Engineering.

 

No. For this argument to make sense, the part over the sternum would need to have less padding than the surrounding areas, for which we have no evidence whatsoever -- unless we are talking about a blow so strong that it shatters the armor altogether (or pierces it, see the demise of plate armour after the advent of the crossbow in history), in which case debating its form becomes somewhat obsolete. Besides, if it *was* a real issue, then having an ornamental layer on top of the armour proper would be no witchcraft either; in fact, there almost always was one anyway (at least for higher ranks).

 

Look, this is not physics. It's aesthetics clear and simple. I'm fine with that, I'm perfectly fine with people loving their tin can designs, but I get annoyed when people use 'realism' to disparage other people's views in a realm that lives off the magical, the fantasy. There is SO MUCH stuff about armor that is clearly subject to the rule of magic that it's almost silly to start demanding 'realism' in that one tiny detail, even more so because that detail is of no consequence in either fantasy OR reality and serves no other purpose than simply aesthetics.

 

But then I'm not sure what we are arguing about any more since we both seem to be of one mind in this matter; that having the option to wear it would be good.

[DomeWing333]

No. For this argument to make sense, the part over the sternum would need to have less padding than the surrounding areas, for which we have no evidence whatsoever -- unless we are talking about a blow so strong that it shatters the armor altogether (or pierces it, see the demise of plate armour after the advent of the crossbow in history), in which case debating its form becomes somewhat obsolete. Besides, if it *was* a real issue, then having an ornamental layer on top of the armour proper would be no witchcraft either; in fact, there almost always was one anyway (at least for higher ranks).

 

Look, this is not physics. It's aesthetics clear and simple. I'm fine with that, I'm perfectly fine with people loving their tin can designs, but I get annoyed when people use 'realism' to disparage other people's views in a realm that lives off the magical, the fantasy. There is SO MUCH stuff about armor that is clearly subject to the rule of magic that it's almost silly to start demanding 'realism' in that one tiny detail, even more so because that detail is of no consequence in either fantasy OR reality and serves no other purpose than simply aesthetics.

 

But then I'm not sure what we are arguing about any more since we both seem to be of one mind in this matter; that having the option to wear it would be good.

No, it IS about physics as people who actually make armors for a living will tell you (refer to the article I linked to). Focusing a given amount of force on a smaller surface area leads to more pressure than dispersing that same amount of force over a larger area. That's...rudimentary physics. Compare the difference between pressing your open hand against your sternum and pressing your knuckle against your sternum. Yeah, there's padding under the armor, but the armor's still doing a crappy job at what it's supposed to be doing, which is deflecting the force of a blow away from the main body. In fact, it makes it so that even a bad fall can cause severe bodily trauma. Unless we're talking about a world where rudimentary physics don't apply, boob plate armor will always be less structurally sound than flat armor. If you want to put a light layer of cleavage-sculpted armor on top of "armor proper," that's a different story, but that also isn't what Iron Bull or most people talk about when they say "boob plate."

 

Yes, it's a world filled with magic, but it's also a world whose reality is informed by our own. Just because there's magic in the armor doesn't makes it so no other facet of armor design matters. That's like saying that because a sword is magical, it doesn't matter whether or not it's sharp. It's still a sword and it's still armor. I'm not demanding that Bioware focus on realism or saying that realism is something that all fantasy games should strive towards. I'm not saying that this particular instance of realism is any more important than any other instance of realism. I'm just pointing out what the reality is. And the reality that boob plates do not make for functionally good armor design. That's it. Nothing else.

[Winged Silver]

I should just remove armour and role in mud(This is some good quality mud). Avvar are strongest in the game and they are half naked. Vitarr exist only because it's hard to make helmets for different types of horns. Or you honestly believe Bioware made something unique for Qunari for no reason.  

 

Haha, I couldn't say why they decided what they did though didn't they make a pretty badass helmet for the Iron Bull? 

[9TailsFox]

Haha, I couldn't say why they decided what they did though didn't they make a pretty badass helmet for the Iron Bull? 

Exactly only for Iron Bull.

[Lilithor]

Are people still having hallucinations of DA being coherent about armor being practical? I wish I had such strong drugs here in my country =(
Oh wait... is it schizophrenia? It would explain the hallucinations.

[damain56]

Interestingly King Henry VIII had a set with a rather prominent 'groin defence' (displayed at the Tower of London),

though this may have been a propaganda measure given his issues with fathering a son and heir.

 

 

Oh, and take care what you google our of curiosity, there are things I now want to unsee. certainly not safe for work  .

I know that type of armor was fitted precisely to its owner but from the many paintings I've seen of the king he wouldn't have fit in that armor even as a young man. He was way too fat for it. You look at paintings commissioned for his coronation and he could never have breathed in that armor.

[Seraphim24]

It seems the reality is the creators can do kind of anything they want. Lets just say hypothetically Dragon Age is a world where arrows and swords penetrate flesh.

 

Well you can make a warrior that is like a reverse vampire (or something), where their skin being in contact with the elements gives them increased defense.

 

Or maybe you could just say well this is a world with magic and all the warriors want to remain decently mobile and so no one wears full plate plate in order to be able to dodge spells more effectively (which is exactly how it works in Demon Souls actually)

 

Or you could say the supply of metal is diminished and extremely rare, to the point where most warriors make with just ornamental costumes because there isn't any room for additional supply.

 

Or you could have an extended scenario where Cassandra loses her armor due to a raid or something and is forced to make do with more revealing peasant clothes for a time (like Chris from Suikoden 3). Or maybe she is going into camoflauge in order to avoid being spotted as a knight.

 

If your goal was to make the characters look more attractive and less frumpy you could do it. It's kind of insane to conclude that the Bioware developers/writers were just hapless and unable to make things the way they wanted when it's their own creation.

 

It's much more reasonable to conclude that things are the way they are because they wanted them to be that way. It seems to be they did this because their goal was to reflect reality in some way or another, not necessarily to entertain, because I would say in general people want to be entertained by seeing cool stuff like out of a Korean MMO (or even FFXIV for that matter).

[daveliam]

I know that type of armor was fitted precisely to its owner but from the many paintings I've seen of the king he wouldn't have fit in that armor even as a young man. He was way too fat for it. You look at paintings commissioned for his coronation and he could never have breathed in that armor.

 

Actually, Henry VIII wasn't fat until later in life.  Most of the contemporary descriptions while he was in his 20's & 30's describe him as tall, fit, athletic, and one of the most handsome men in Europe.  Granted, some of it was probably propaganda, but it's pretty much universally agreed upon that he didn't start putting on weight until after his 2nd or 3rd marriages when he was in his late 30's and early 40's. 

 

ETA:  Just looked it up.  He started putting on weight after he was injured in a joust in 1536 and lost mobility.  He was 45 at the time.  He died when he was 55. 

[Pasquale1234]

The original comparison of muscle plate armour and boob plate armour makes no sense to me. Presumbly muscle armour is supposed to convey a sense of strength. Boobs aren't associated with strength or combat or anything like it. The female equivalent of muscle armour... would be muscle armour, surely?
 
That boob plate looks uncomfortable. What if one pops out of its slot in the middle of battle. So awkward.

Yikes! That could be quite painful, interfere with range of motion, and make it difficult to continue the fight.

Trying to compare Iron Bull & Varric's lack of protective armor to boob cup armor doesn't work.

IB & Varric don't have their movement restricted. They can easily move around and react to the enemy. They lack protection, but don't have anything actively restricting them or putting them in greater danger.

Those things are not true of boob cups. They are restrictive, look really uncomfortable, and direct all of the force of any blow directly to the sternum. It's kind of like strapping the blade of an axe to your sternum with a note that says, "hit me here."

As for aesthetics - personal taste varies widely. There are many clothing / adornment features that can appeal to different sensibilities. With so many other ways to satisfy different tastes, I'm not sure why boob cups need to be a focus.

[Terodil]

Focusing a given amount of force on a smaller surface area leads to more pressure than dispersing that same amount of force over a larger area. That's...rudimentary physics.

Eh, you cannot simply quote some random stuff without taking into account the parameters! Specifics and circumstances matter! That's rudimentary logic ("If I throw a ball upwards, it'll always fall down." -- No it won't. What about an absence of gravity or the ball being embedded in a solid material?).

We're not talking about Kevlar or chainmail here! We are talking about very stiff, fantasy-strength ("obsidian"), magic-reinforced plate armor. There's nothing that bends there, so whatever the force and wherever it is applied, it's not going to suddenly focus into a pressure point.

Maybe we can finally put this to rest? It's not physics, it's fantasy. I really don't know what's so difficult about accepting that, given that we are throwing around ice spells and taking arrows to the knee in stride.

[Han Shot First]

Although I prefer realistic armor designs generally, I've never had a problem with so-called 'boob plate' so long as it otherwise looks it would perform the function it was designed for. To me it falls within the same category as the muscled cuirass that was worn by some soldiers in antiquity. Sure, it would be a purely cosmetic feature. But purely cosmetic features could and often did exist on many real world armor designs.

 

So with that in mind I wouldn't throw it in with the awful 'bikini armors,' where we see female characters wearing armor that only covers their chest and groin and leaves the rest fully exposed. Those shouldn't exist just on the basis that would not at all perform their intended function, unlike a full plate cuirass that mimics a female's form.

 

Having said that, I don't think all armor designs should turn into 'boob plate' when equipped by a female character either. Most shouldn't, and should be gender neutral. But having a handful that do? Sure, why not? Might as well throw in a couple muscled cuirasses for the lads as well.

[damain56]

 

The desire demon as it was conceived WAS offensive. A frontal nude of women who have the body of a porn star? And one of them actually assaults a child?

If the developers truly bothered with gender equality, why appeal to the old trick of using naked women to easily attract male players? They should have used both male and female desire demons.

 

Oh Pshaw.You forgot the tail and appendages.Exactly my point.Someone is going to find everything offensive in this age of "Ï'm offended". The game is rated M for hell's sake. Let's see how many Witcher fans complain that they're offended  by Geralt's sexual escapades ln Wild Hunt.

[LadyLaLa]

To all those debating the "reality and fantasy" rules:

 

You do realize that in every work of fantasy, the creators of said world decide where the line that dictates what is acceptable and unacceptable is up to the writers, right? Debating physics and then throwing in "well none of that would matter anyway because magic" or "this material wouldn't make good weapons or armor because it's a fragile rock" isn't going to work because it's not how the writers have dictated Thedas works. The game designers chose to do away with the heavy chainmail design, just like they did away with archer warriors and a rouge using a sword. As much as Dragon Age gives us the illusion of choice, in the end, we really don't have any choice but to accept the universe as they present it... or go elsewhere for our entertainment. The writers have made digs at the concept of "boob plate" so it's highly unlikely we'll see it outside of mods (if Bioware chooses to support them again, but that's a debate for a different thread)

 

As far as I am aware, this thread wasn't "Would boob plate be logical/fit the story/be comfortable/ect" it was one guy saying he wanted it back. Whether he's made other complaints or asked this more than once is immaterial, whether you agree with his other views, also immaterial. Going off topic to bash the author just makes you look like the petty ones and does not help the discussion at all. 

[KBomb]

I agree that it shouldn't be so much about realism in this case as the break from realism isn't that severe. However, I do think there's a limit at which it does become about realism and making sense.

 

If a poster came on here and said "I want new armors to have laser cannons and a jetpack," I think most of us would find that ridiculous because of how unfaithful that would be to the world. I don't think that would be a matter of taste; it would be a matter of something objectively clashing with the design of the world. Now, the poster could argue that his suggestion would only be one option among many and that he just wants to give the player choice in their attire...but I think the reasonable response would be to just tell him to go play Mass Effect.

Laser cannons and jetpacks have no establishment in the created world of Dragon Age. The type of armor being discussed does. It's appeared in the franchise before, so it wouldn't be unrealistic or should it limit any realism issues since it's already a part of what is considered "real" in Thedas. It wouldn't objectively clash with the design of the world--- just the sensibilities of some players. 

[Sleekshinobi]

While I personally have no problem with the boob plate armor, I can understand how some people would be turned off by it. Realistic or not, it would add more diversity to the armor sets, and I believe that is always a good thing.

 

I love how the elven armor sets look different on men and women. I think more of the armor in the game should be done this way. I understand it would be unrealistic for them to make all the armors this way, but it would be nice if more of the armors looked different on males and females.

[KBomb]

While I personally have no problem with the boob plate armor, I can understand how some people would be turned off by it. Realistic or not, it would add more diversity to the armor sets, and I believe that is always a good thing.

I love how the elven armor sets look different on men and women. I think more of the armor in the game should be done this way. I understand it would be unrealistic for them to make all the armors this way, but it would be nice if more of the armors looked different on males and females.

I would love to have seen more armors reflective of race. Moreso than armor--- I would have liked Skyhold wear and ball wear be reflective of race. All optional of course, but I think it would have added a nice element.

[Seraphim24]

As far as I am aware, this thread wasn't "Would boob plate be logical/fit the story/be comfortable/ect" it was one guy saying he wanted it back. Whether he's made other complaints or asked this more than once is immaterial, whether you agree with his other views, also immaterial. Going off topic to bash the author just makes you look like the petty ones and does not help the discussion at all. 

 

Ah well said.

 

I think people have tried to steer the discussion in terms of "realism" in order to subvert the issue of "taste" (which they invariably claim is wildly subjective), when all we're really talking about taste.

 

It would be much easier on everyone if we just got right to that point.

 

Moreover I myself just treat this as a discussion because as you say there is no chance of it showing up in DA ever really.

[Han Shot First]

I would love to have seen more armors reflective of race. Moreso than armor--- I would have liked Skyhold wear and ball wear be reflective of race. All optional of course, but I think it would have added a nice element.

 

If the elves were given their own style of armor, I'd recommend scale mail and something based on eastern style helms, except with elven script:

 

 

 

It would give them a unique appearance, and it would look cool. 

[Pasquale1234]

There seems to be a single term - boobplate - used to describe armors that I think are vastly different.

Here is Meredith's armor, which could be categorized as boobplate:

Spoiler

It looks reasonably practical, sensible, and protective, and would not direct the full force of any blows to any particular area. The picture of Cassandra's breastplate on a previous page would also fit that description.

I've seen quite a few boobplate armors that I find very appealing - both practically and aesthetically.

This, on the other hand, is what I call boobcup:

Spoiler

... and it subjects the wearer to greater danger.

So where armor designs are to be made gender specific, I would request boobplate over boobcup.

[AresKeith]

Are people still having hallucinations of DA being coherent about armor being practical? I wish I had such strong drugs here in my country =(
Oh wait... is it schizophrenia? It would explain the hallucinations.

 

[themikefest]

No.

[AresKeith]

There seems to be a single term - boobplate - used to describe armors that I think are vastly different.

Here is Meredith's armor, which could be categorized as boobplate:

Spoiler

 

 

I do prefer this style if boobplate armor comes back

[GreyWarden_Smith]

I liked Meredith armour wish a female Inquisitor or Cassandra could wear that instead of the typical Templar armour.

[AresKeith]

I liked Meredith armour wish a female Inquisitor or Cassandra could wear that instead of the typical Templar armour.

 

Her armor technically is there, it just got redesigned

[GreyWarden_Smith]

Her armor technically is there, it just got redesigned

 

Is it wearable? or NPC only like that beautiful Ferelden full-plate armour.