356 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

I like it. Only beat DAI once, but I may begin a new quizzy or pick up one of my other 3 old ones.

 

I loved ALL the VA choices, they felt more fleshed out. Sure some hits and misses, but overall I gave DAI like an 7/10

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

Personally, I was rather fond of the Inquisitor, although that can't be said without certain caveats. 

 

For one, I did miss a more fleshed-out backstory. At this point, precisely all of you have brought up that the way the Warden's beginnings were handled in DAO has, so far, been the superior approach to handling the PC's backstory and I am not going to disagree (although I am very "meh" about silent protagonists in my games and didn't particularly care for the Warden that much). There was a sense to Warden clearly having a life prior to the hijinks that ensued in the first game, which was also reflected in the dialogue and it was wonderful. Hawke had a whole entire family to watch die off in variably horrific ways over the course DA2 (and even prior to that), with her mother's elopement with some no-good apostate and reclaiming of family fortunes being a thing, which was all sorts of wonderful.

 

The Inquisitor waking up in a holding cell with memory loss and a suspect but permanent mark on her body after a hard night before only made me remember some of my Saturday mornings and sympathize with her in that respect, but then she just stands up, shakes herself off and then proceeds to establish the Inquisition. And while it was fun headcanonning that she was the youngest in the family with three older brothers (two of whom were twins), the game never really made me feel like she had a life before Cassandra clapped her in irons. There is giving players choice and then there is sacrificing everything that could contribute to a more fleshed-out character on the High Altar of Player Agency in order to appease the almighty gods of "But what about our choice, BioWare, WHAT ABOUT OUR CHOICE?!" That moment when she went into the Fade and the Nightmare proceeded to eff with everyone's minds and in order to break the Inquisitor summoned huge eff off spiders? Wonderful. Sera teasing the Inquisitor about it? Wonderful. The Inquisitor telling a story featuring her aunt and (apparently) a rabbit during a game of Wicked Grace? WONDERFUL. I would have liked to see more of that. More arachnophobia and dirty family-rodent jokes, please.

 

While we are on the subject, I also have to get one thing off my chest - it has been brought to my attention that there were supposed to be Inquisitor's backstory-related quests, which were scrapped in favor of allowing for race choice, ultimately sacrificing story and character complexity to the end of allowing race selection. I really don't want to touch any nerves here, but to that I say - see the ritual sacrifice remark in my previous paragraph. To put it delicately, I am not particularly enthused about the fact that such decision was made, but alas, I must respect that other people may have differing opinions, which I may not necessarily agree with or find them especially appealing or even understandable. More isn't always better. Sometimes it's just more. This makes me sad and angry and makes me want to punch things (since punching people is for some mysterious and impenetrable reason looked down upon in polite company).

 

Two - while I did not have any trouble whatsoever with the voice acting, after having played through the entirety of Mass Effect so many times I could probably recite the lines by heart and finding the display of Jennifer Hale's voice talent one of the main reasons why I enjoy the series so much, I must say the Inquisitor could have used a bit more... let's say intensity. For example, that scene when the gang is running into the Eluvian from the quickly approaching Corypheus was in such a bad need of a Shepard "Move! Move! MOVE!" I audibly groaned when it failed to appear. I mean, yes, not everybody is Jennifer Hale, but yes, the Inquisitor could have used a bit more "oomph" and that is about as eloquent as I can put it.

 

So yeah, not without flaws, but not bad either.

[Torgette]

Personally, I was rather fond of the Inquisitor, although that can't be said without certain caveats. 

 

For one, I did miss a more fleshed-out backstory. At this point, precisely all of you have brought up that the way the Warden's beginnings were handled in DAO has, so far, been the superior approach to handling the PC's backstory and I am not going to disagree (although I am very "meh" about silent protagonists in my games and didn't particularly care for the Warden that much). There was a sense to Warden clearly having a life prior to the hijinks that ensued in the first game, which was also reflected in the dialogue and it was wonderful. Hawke had a whole entire family to watch die off in variably horrific ways over the course DA2 (and even prior to that), with her mother's elopement with some no-good apostate and reclaiming of family fortunes being a thing, which was all sorts of wonderful.

 

The Inquisitor waking up in a holding cell with memory loss and a suspect but permanent mark on her body after a hard night before only made me remember some of my Saturday mornings and sympathize with her in that respect, but then she just stands up, shakes herself off and then proceeds to establish the Inquisition. And while it was fun headcanonning that she was the youngest in the family with three older brothers (two of whom were twins), the game never really made me feel like she had a life before Cassandra clapped her in irons. There is giving players choice and then there is sacrificing everything that could contribute to a more fleshed-out character on the High Altar of Player Agency in order to appease the almighty gods of "But what about our choice, BioWare, WHAT ABOUT OUR CHOICE?!" That moment when she went into the Fade and the Nightmare proceeded to eff with everyone's minds and in order to break the Inquisitor summoned huge eff off spiders? Wonderful. Sera teasing the Inquisitor about it? Wonderful. The Inquisitor telling a story featuring her aunt and (apparently) a rabbit during a game of Wicked Grace? WONDERFUL. I would have liked to see more of that. More arachnophobia and dirty family-rodent jokes, please.

 

While we are on the subject, I also have to get one thing off my chest - it has been brought to my attention that there were supposed to be Inquisitor's backstory-related quests, which were scrapped in favor of allowing for race choice, ultimately sacrificing story and character complexity to the end of allowing race selection. I really don't want to touch any nerves here, but to that I say - see the ritual sacrifice remark in my previous paragraph. To put it delicately, I am not particularly enthused about the fact that such decision was made, but alas, I must respect that other people may have differing opinions, which I may not necessarily agree with or find them especially appealing or even understandable. More isn't always better. Sometimes it's just more. This makes me sad and angry and makes me want to punch things (since punching people is for some mysterious and impenetrable reason looked down upon in polite company).

 

Two - while I did not have any trouble whatsoever with the voice acting, after having played through the entirety of Mass Effect so many times I could probably recite the lines by heart and finding the display of Jennifer Hale's voice talent one of the main reasons why I enjoy the series so much, I must say the Inquisitor could have used a bit more... let's say intensity. For example, that scene when the gang is running into the Eluvian from the quickly approaching Corypheus was in such a bad need of a Shepard "Move! Move! MOVE!" I audibly groaned when it failed to appear. I mean, yes, not everybody is Jennifer Hale, but yes, the Inquisitor could have used a bit more "oomph" and that is about as eloquent as I can put it.

 

So yeah, not without flaws, but not bad either.

 

In DAO you had the origin stories and then also had the missions involving the elves, humans and dwarves. The origin story made you connect to your character and then these missions gave you a chance to affect something that your character must personally connect to. In Mass Effect 1 we choose our background while creating the character which was very neat - all 3 games referenced what we picked later on and that grounded Shepard and made them feel more connected. You also had missions that - depending on your background - you felt personally connected to as well ie: running into a fellow akuze survivor who is trying to kill the scientists that wiped out your unit. These are just some examples of what I thought they could've done. I did think playing as an elf in DAI was interesting because you run into so much of your own history and everybody brings it up - you also have your own motivations in situations like the winter palace mission if you want.

 

As you said I don't know if more is always better, but more small details like the examples I just provided are always welcome.

[Ariella]

@Phoenix_also_rising

 

But...but...but.. It's SAM!!!! 

 

Though, I do love Jen Hale.

[vertigomez]

I've been trying to figure out why I have such trouble relating to my Quizzie, and I think this is it: they don't have a family.

Hawke protecting and providing for their family (particularly the relationship with their siblings) was a HUGE draw for me. It's also why the Dwarf Commoner and City Elf origins were my favorite in DAO - in both cases, there's a sense of responsibility there, whether you're playing a by-the-book Warden or a wildcard. DC is struggling to provide for their family and protect their sister from the worst of Beraht's shenanigans. They have a tumultuous relationship with their alcoholic mother and absentee father. The CE has got cousins they're obviously close to, as well as a father they (seem to) get along with for the most part, and their mother's legacy is very present in the way NPCs interact with them.

Cousland's family is obviously VERY tied to their character, as well as Aeducan's in a, uh, slightly different way.

I just don't dig the blank-slate thing when it comes to family and how you grew up, because where you come from is such a huge part of who you are today. And that can be negative or positive, but it's still there.

tl;dr family's a great motivator, I sure wish we had one

[midnight tea]

.... Which is exactly why I think of my Inquisitor's family and relations before I begin another playthrough - just like I do with any other character I create.

 

Just because the game offers limited information on character's background doesn't mean that he or she is defined "just" by content available in the game. In fact, I treat all interactions and responses she or he has in game as expressions of their already fairly well-formed character (they can change under the influence of events or people they meet, but they're not blank-slates per se).

[vertigomez]

^Well, sure. I do that, too. I just don't like having to headcanon everything.

[Jaison1986]

.... Which is exactly why I think of my Inquisitor's family and relations before I begin another playthrough - just like I do with any other character I create.

 

Just because the game offers limited information on character's background doesn't mean that he or she is defined "just" by content available in the game. In fact, I treat all interactions and responses she or he has in game as expressions of their already fairly well-formed character (they can change under the influence of events or people they meet, but they're not blank-slates per se).

 

Well, I'm just the "show, don't tell" kind of guy. I prefer when these plot elements are shown to us, rather then imagine it in my head. What did I cared the Trevelyans were playing some petty political game and trying to take advantage of your title as Inquisitor? Or that clan Lavellan was getting into trouble with humans? I never saw them, never knew them. Never got a reason to care. And the most jarring is that these backstories had great potential for character development. Like mage Trevelyan being bitterly torn from their families once they were found out, or Adaar and their budding relationship with their fellow mercenaries. I want to see it, I want experience it.

[midnight tea]

I don't think you can accuse the game of "showing, not telling" in this context, especially that you want to be both told and shown what your chosen Inquisitor was prior to the Conclave (and the War Table missions aren't there to show or tell much about Herald's relationship with their family - we only get a sneak peek of what happens to them after Inquisition was formed).

 

Not that I'm saying that this is a bad thing - if the game contains such content, then I'm usually fine with it. But considering the scope and specificity of the story, I don't think there's much time or space, really, to 'experience' their background. Heralds are thrown headfirst into trying to save the world and aside from relations they manage to form within the Inquisition, very little in what they really feel about being viewed as Herald of Andraste or hero to saved them all matters.

They pretty much got "robbed" of their past or any other potential future ever since they stumbled out of the Fade and got deemed as being touched by the divine - or deemed a rival in race to godhood by Corypheus ad his lackeys. It's... pretty sad if you think about it. Like with everything, there s a price to pay. Inquisition might be Herald's chance to either become powerful or do some really good (or bad) things, but at the same time their life doesn't really belongs to them anymore - or at least, less of it belongs to them compared to other heroes.

[Smudjygirl]

I really liked my Inky. I think that had a lot to do with me enjoying being the "humble, polite good guy". It seems the lack of morally grey choices or outright tyranny is something many people are sore about. The thing is, though, there was an outcry that Hawke had "too much personality" to be a player character. The warden was a blank slate, which was all well and good, but in exchange had absolutly no personality. But i think my Wardern was great for Origins, Hawke for DA2, and the Inquisitor is best for Inquisition. I don't feel they can really be compared all that much. They had completely different lives, goals and enemies. Even Hawke and Corypheus, since Meredith was Hawkes advisery.

 

The only issue i had with her was, while i enjoyed the growth of the inquisition, it felt to me character growth of the inquisitor was minimal. The story grew around her, but she didn't really grow. In the end, the Inquisition had more growth than her. Rather than the Inquisitor becoming a powerful leader, Corypheus became a pathetic excuse of a villan. It wasn't so much the faceless nobody defends the weak or does the impossible so much as she got on Corypheus' nerves so much he just wanted to get it over with.

 

I don't know why people think the lack of background is to blame (i mean, to some it is). We have some idea what their relationship with people from their past is, but the story is about the Inquisition and possibly its effect on the future.

 

The voice acting is difficult to complain about for me. I've played and completed it with all races and all voice actors. They each put their own spin on the Inquisitor. Personally i think Alix Wilton Regan did amazingly, but it wasn't consistantly how I would have said it. They each have their strengths. Again, though, i recall Hawke's voice actors getting a lot of hate too.

 

At the end of the day, i think people will empithise with different heros. I'm imaginative enough that i can put myself into each of them (and my Warden was a guy). It's never going to be a case of "one size fits all". Bioware, to me, seemed to try to find a middle ground between "no" personality and "too much" personality, It's similar to me with the "discussion" between those who want the Inquisitor to be the next protag and those who would hate that. Bioware will do what the story dictates and create a character accordingly.

(I hope i haven't kicked up something people wanted to die. I seldom comment in forums)

[midnight tea]

The only issue i had with her was, while i enjoyed the growth of the inquisition, it felt to me character growth of the inquisitor was minimal. The story grew around her, but she didn't really grow. In the end, the Inquisition had more growth than her. Rather than the Inquisitor becoming a powerful leader, Corypheus became a pathetic excuse of a villan. It wasn't so much the faceless nobody defends the weak or does the impossible so much as she got on Corypheus' nerves so much he just wanted to get it over with.

 

Since its the player who ultimately controls the Inquisitor, I think question is whether both player and characters grow - at least in terms of understanding matters in Thedas and making correct decisions, based on what we learn about the world and its troubles, or issues our companions have.

 

I mean, if somebody wants to play a Mary Sue'ish character who is brilliant from the start, they're more than welcome. I usually imagine even my bestest or sue-st characters more as "diamonds in the rough" - they have a potential to become truly great, but that potential is chiseled and their character tempered by everything that happens to them. They may want to just run away at the nearest possible occasion and shirk all responsibility, vehemently denying the 'chosen by Andraste' nonsense, but the plea of people as well as impotence and pettiness of major organizations and leaders angers them to a point where they decide to step up.

They may be prejudiced about the Fade, magic and spirits, but interactions with Solas or Cole may make them more open-minded.

They might be baffled by people like Krem, but through interactions with him, Iron Bull and other Chargers makes them more accepting of people, no matter who they are.

 

So it's kind of a "positive feedback" thing to me - my Heralds learn and grow through each experience offered to them, and in exchange they help their allies and Inquisition grow.

[Ariella]

 

They pretty much got "robbed" of their past or any other potential future ever since they stumbled out of the Fade and got deemed as being touched by the divine - or deemed a rival in race to godhood by Corypheus ad his lackeys. It's... pretty sad if you think about it. Like with everything, there s a price to pay. Inquisition might be Herald's chance to either become powerful or do some really good (or bad) things, but at the same time their life doesn't really belongs to them anymore - or at least, less of it belongs to them compared to other heroes.

 

Actually Harding makes a similar point at the end of the storyline for Jaws of Hakkon, though it's more about how legends in general become both more and less a person.

 

The problem is, narrative wise, I don't see how they could have done it any other way without dragging the story. Can't do it at the beginning really because it would remove the immediacy of the Breach's opening and the threat to the Herald. I also don't really see how they could have done so during the body of the game either.

 

Plus there really is only so much that can be done.

[KaiserShep]

Like mage Trevelyan being bitterly torn from their families once they were found out...

 

This is sort of an issue with the Circle origin in DA:O as well, and with motherloving Jowan as your only emotional anchor there (who then infests the temple of sacred ashes in a vision), I have to say that I hate that origin with every fiber of my being.

[Steelcan]

I liked them better than Hawke and maybe certain Wardens that I've done

[Googleness]

The Warden had more personality then the Inquisitor.

You are railroaded into the plot and no matter what you say you are same robot.

[Uccio]

Warden with Origins and Hawke with his family rocked all over the bland white paper inquisitor.

[vertigomez]

This is sort of an issue with the Circle origin in DA:O as well, and with motherloving Jowan as your only emotional anchor there (who then infests the temple of sacred ashes in a vision), I have to say that I hate that origin with every fiber of my being.

I liked Jowan, but it takes a special kind of Warden to love him.

Of course, depending on how you play, Irving could very much be your father figure; alternatively, if you're a raging blood mage who resents the Circle and everything it stands for, your beef could be with the Chantry tearing you away from the life you might've had...

At least it's something. I mean, you can kinda build something out of the conversation with Josie, but stiiiiill (using a dorfquisitor for example):

1) I loved/hated my life in the Carta
2) I do/n't believe in the Stone
3) Most of my work was harmless smuggling/I killed people errday
4) I have/n't been to Orzammar

[Ariella]

I liked Jowan, but it takes a special kind of Warden to love him.
Of course, depending on how you play, Irving could very much be your father figure; alternatively, if you're a raging blood mage who resents the Circle and everything it stands for, your beef could be with the Chantry tearing you away from the life you might've had...
At least it's something. I mean, you can kinda build something out of the conversation with Josie, but stiiiiill (using a dorfquisitor for example):
1) I loved/hated my life in the Carta
2) I do/n't believe in the Stone
3) Most of my work was harmless smuggling/I killed people errday
4) I have/n't been to Orzammar

Exactly. My mage Trevelyan saw her family quite a bit, had a fancy for one of the Templars at Ostwick, and her family loves playing politics. Plus she didn't go to Aunt Lucile's parties because she hated the matchmaking.

[Uccio]

For my Warden Jowain was his best bro with whom he fought the nazi circle system.

[hoechlbear]

I've been trying to figure out why I have such trouble relating to my Quizzie, and I think this is it: they don't have a family.

Hawke protecting and providing for their family (particularly the relationship with their siblings) was a HUGE draw for me. It's also why the Dwarf Commoner and City Elf origins were my favorite in DAO - in both cases, there's a sense of responsibility there, whether you're playing a by-the-book Warden or a wildcard. DC is struggling to provide for their family and protect their sister from the worst of Beraht's shenanigans. They have a tumultuous relationship with their alcoholic mother and absentee father. The CE has got cousins they're obviously close to, as well as a father they (seem to) get along with for the most part, and their mother's legacy is very present in the way NPCs interact with them.

Cousland's family is obviously VERY tied to their character, as well as Aeducan's in a, uh, slightly different way.

I just don't dig the blank-slate thing when it comes to family and how you grew up, because where you come from is such a huge part of who you are today. And that can be negative or positive, but it's still there.

tl;dr family's a great motivator, I sure wish we had one

 

 

This. I think the lack of an origin story and just being thrown into the action straight from the beginning really hurt how I felt about the Inquisitor. I don't like how they are basically a nobody with no background who just fell out of the sky and suddenly became a God. Not to mention every Inquisitor seems the same to me because they all have pretty similar backgrounds (if you can call that tiny text at the beginning as a background) which basically is "you were sent to the conclave to spy".

 

I also don't like the fact that the Inquisitor has such a neutral "personality". You can't really be a smartass and you can't be evil so when you choose those options it just comes off as diplomatic, always. The humorous options aren't humorous at all, they are always polite answers that are supposed to be funny but it's just so damn boring. The Inquisitor doesn't have a single line that I remember as being epic or just funny or clever. It's just... meh. Makes me really miss the clever (and hilarious) warden lines and humorous Hawke. 

[Shadeling]

I absolutely loved the origin stories for each race in Dragon Age: Origins,  I got so much mileage (gaming hours) out of DA:O from that alone because that feature made it a delight to play the game again, and again.  Juxtapose this against the next installment, Dragon Age 2,  a game that comes with only one origin story for the one pre-built character for the game who also happens to have a family and I managed to finish it knowing full well I'd never play it again.  I hated the fact that Dragon Age was being shoe-horned into a Mass Effect formula to speed up development time to make the franchise more profitable and that's what Hawke represented to me.

 

But at the same, I get the fact that having such a lengthy development cycle like DA: O had is just not profitable enough for a corporate conglomerate like EA to have the juicy quarterly statements its monsters of shareholding requires (the bane of gamers everywhere) in order to be satisfied.  So now Bioware has the unenviable position of trying to make a game that attempts to make as many of their fans happy as possible.  

 

I agree that the Inquisitor's personality was playing along more neutral lines than anything else and that there were no allowances made for the possibility of a darker Inquisitor, one who could actively attempt to create the 'destroyed' alternative of Mother Giselle's initial (unnecessary) cautionary advice.  Yet at the same time, the more neutral, ambiguousness of the Inquisitor is what allowed me to get a lot more replay-ability out of DA:I whereas with DA2 it was only one.  A premade character with a set background means it will need to appeal to the majority of gamers in order to be profitable, and that's a lot of variables to worry about vs having a more neutral/vague protagonist that can easily meet the expectations of the majority of fans who play.

 

[Torgette]

This. I think the lack of an origin story and just being thrown into the action straight from the beginning really hurt how I felt about the Inquisitor. I don't like how they are basically a nobody with no background who just fell out of the sky and suddenly became a God. Not to mention every Inquisitor seems the same to me because they all have pretty similar backgrounds (if you can call that tiny text at the beginning as a background) which basically is "you were sent to the conclave to spy".

I also don't like the fact that the Inquisitor has such a neutral "personality". You can't really be a smartass and you can't be evil so when you choose those options it just comes off as diplomatic, always. The humorous options aren't humorous at all, they are always polite answers that are supposed to be funny but it's just so damn boring. The Inquisitor doesn't have a single line that I remember as being epic or just funny or clever. It's just... meh. Makes me really miss the clever (and hilarious) warden lines and humorous Hawke.

I actually liked being thrown into the fire from the start, it made the beginning more memorable than had we been "seasoned" with the PC for hours before we got to that point. It also helped with the character arc; starting out being handcuffed, accused as the perpetrator and generally confused to when we become inquisitor is a great arc. If we could have had more personal stuff, I think either immediately after the intro or sometime after establishing skyhold would've been best narratively.

As for spunkiness, I do think the highs and lows aren't completely there (as you said: feels neutral) when there was room for it.

[TheJediSaint]

Nothing beats the unhinged genius of Sarcastic Hawk, but I still enjoyed how I was able to characterize the Inquisitor.

[9TailsFox]

Inquisitor is like The elder scrolls main character. Just boring blank state who never existed in the world.Yes e have some dialog and peration but I never feel like Inquisitor have family. The elder scroll have great theory, main character never existed in the world only then read the scroll. Same with Inqusitor it's like Because Coryfish opened rift Inquisitor was created out of nothing. Or some spirit from the fade took form.