1591 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobwebmaster]

Apologies if a thread like this was already made once upon a time.

 

Why do female Inquisitors have six romance options (negating race-gating) to choose from, while male Inquisitors have only four?

 

Is it because of the whole "Cullen and Egg were initially going to be bisexual" thing, but when Bioware pansied out of it/"didn't have enough time," they didn't realize that now there's an unbalanced amount of potential LI's per sex?

 

Females have Josie, Ser-ugh, Irritable Bowel IB, Beardy, Egg, and Cullen. That's six.

 

Males have Dorian ( ), Cassie, Josie, and IB. That's four. And I'm not counting Harding for obvious reasons, but even if I did, females would still have two more options than men do.

 

I understand that had Bioware not backed out (like a punk) of making Cullen and Egg romanceable to men, a lot of players would be fanny-troubled over having more gay options for their men than straight, but still. (As an unnecessary aside: I would be quite happy, as I always play gay heroes anyway. Well, I'd be happy to have Cullen, not so much Egg, but at least I have Dorian. If IB was the only male romance option for my Inquisitor, he would be a very sad and lonely man. Much like my poor Aedan was pre-Awakening.)

 

So, um, anyway... opinions?

 

PS: Sorry if I slandered your chosen romances' "good names," but... Well, no, actually that's about all I've got. And I'm not really even that sorry, tee-hee!

 Drop them completely. The writing is poor anyway compared with previous Bioware RPG efforts and, as mentioned elsewhere, the romances are all fragmented, Developing realtionships in DAI is very different from say DAO. DAI romance dialogues lack the fluidity that DAO ones had with the freedom to develop relationships anywhere in the game. Perhaps the current state of affairs is driven by the target gamer being early teens rather than late with earlier Bioware games. Whatever, Solas I think should be left out of it much in the same way Flemeth was in DAO. Flemeth's continuance is dependent on being able to transfer her feminine deity part to a younger woman while Solas is linked to a beast spirit. According to Robert Graves the scholar, many Roman arena presentations involved women having "erotic conjunctions" with animals. I know we live in a cosmopolitan age in the 21st century but hey you gotta draw the line somewhere! 

It would (maybe) be interesting to back fill the Inquisitor with a family/romance partner. The you are getting more into the theme of soldiers at war and their loved ones, but the DAI romances, with their brief and limited interchanges are hardly integral to the game.

[Felya87]

 Flemeth's continuance is dependent on being able to transfer her feminine deity part to a younger woman while Solas is linked to a beast spirit. According to Robert Graves the scholar, many Roman arena presentations involved women having "erotic conjunctions" with animals. I know we live in a cosmopolitan age in the 21st century but hey you gotta draw the line somewhere! 
 

 

What?

 

No where is said it. There is no mention of beast spirit and Solas. You must be reading too much in the name Dread Wolf.

[Cobwebmaster]

This thread has taken a great turn!

 

I don't have a lot of time right now but I wanted to raise an issue that would haunt any kind of 'possessed LI' setup: We would have certain groups campaign against it for being 'rapy'. After all, the possessed person cannot really consent.

 

Note that I don't agree with that assessment at all. But given Bioware's recent track record of shooting themselves in the foot pre-emptively rather than risking another one of 'those' controversies, I don't think it would happen. Sadly. I think it would be a great concept that invites discussion and evokes emotions.

This is not totally unprecedented. In DAO apart from the Forest Spirit in the Seeker's quest in the Brecillian Forest (not the Rhyming Oak though that was a curiosity too)there is also the case for Wynne in Ferelden's Mage Cirvle Tower where she believes she is possessed by a "Spirit of Faith". One NPC stood out for me particularly in DAI and that was Cole with his link to the Fade (Beyond). Indeed the Inquisitor has an innate skill linked to the fade anyway, and that is a link which is underdeveloped as yet. Talking of which, another thing that has escaped DAI in romances to a large extant is the "spiritual bonding" that goes with a developing relationship. BG2 had that in spades, and time for some of that was set aside in NWN and DAO. 

[Cobwebmaster]

What?

 

No where is said it. There is no mention of beast spirit and Solas. You must be reading too much in the name Dread Wolf.

Try Flemeth's Grimoire in DAO. Dread Wolf is the moniker traditionally given by the Dalish to Fen'Harel- He Who Hunts Alone, Lord of Tricksters, Roamer of the Beyond and Bringer of Nightmares. Don't forget that Solas himself confesses to playing a part in the creation of the breach and the destruction of the Tomb of Andraste. I am referring to the dialogue between the avatar of Mythal chief goddess of the elven pantheon who names Solas thus in their exchange at the end of the game 

Even if you don't accept my attempt at humour the term Dread Wolf implies a savage beast. Therefore the analogy I used  is an accurate one. Either way Solas is possessed or co-habiting with/by a very powerful spirit who's presence is endorsed and acknowledged by Flemeth

[Abelas Forever!]

I must admit one thing: I know and I'm more than ok for straight female protagonist to have less romance in the next game (this time was an exception, I'm more than aware) but I hope for the next time to not have heartbreaking romances. I'm a little bored of having or my character heartbroken or having to carefully metagame the romance I choose. 

 

Even in DAI half the romances are still in the heartbreak road (not as much as ME3, luckily). Solas and Blackwall.

Is not that much noticeable this time, since the romance for straight female are four (at least for the elves) but without Cullen and Solas, even this time the straight female would have endend up with the most heartbreaking/sad/morally challanger decisions to make romance.

 

I hope in the next game, less romances for straight female ok, is right. One time luck for me, one time for others (and as long as the LI are good characters, I will still enjoy them with the "right" protagonist ). But I would be happy if for once the "saddest romance" go towards others (if there must but an inavoidable heartbreak at all.).   just for once. please. I'd like to play my preferred combo (female PC romance guys) without the "I'm going to be sad or doing something terrible just to keep my virtual boyfriend alive/not breaking up with me, IF I have the option at all".

 

At least this time there aren't dead wifes/sons/sisters/lovers around (is already a big step forward), but I actually remember just Garrus and Cullen as the only romance where "everything go well if I don't decide myself to break up" and without past lovers/dead persons, etc. (I don't think the crush on the mage Warden can be seen as an ex relationship)

 

Sorry, I had to say it, since after having to endure every sadness from Carth (first time I noticed a romance in a BioWare game) I am a little tired of the trend  .

But thinking back, is more something that can be actually applied to male LI in general, since many are/were bisexual.

I'm also aware that DAI was an expection what came to romances for straight female PCs and I'm also fine if there is less romances for straight female PCs in the next game. I guess I'm also expecting that.

 

I'm not bored that there are heartbreaking romances. I'm frustrated because there is a huge risk that I don't even have a possibility to achieve a happy ending when I'm romancing male LIs. I really hope that devs will pay more attention to this aspect.

 

At the moment Solas is my favourite romance but that can change if there is no way to get him back. I'm really hoping that there is a way to get him back. What comes to Blackwall his romance is something that I don't like even if there is a possibility to have a happy ending. I could have created a PC who would have forgiven his past and the barn thing and perhaps how he behaves in Val Royeaux. I think these things alone are huge issues to dealt with.  But his behaviour in that judgement is too much for me because there isn't a possibility to be angry at him and I think that is something that the romance would have needed. If that would have been possible then I could think of romancing him.

[Felya87]

Try Flemeth's Grimoire in DAO. Dread Wolf is the moniker traditionally given by the Dalish to Fen'Harel- He Who Hunts Alone, Lord of Tricksters, Roamer of the Beyond and Bringer of Nightmares. Don't forget that Solas himself confesses to playing a part in the creation of the breach and the destruction of the Tomb of Andraste. I am referring to the dialogue between the avatar of Mythal chief goddess of the elven pantheon who names Solas thus in their exchange at the end of the game 

Even if you don't accept my attempt at humour the term Dread Wolf implies a savage beast. Therefore the analogy I used  is an accurate one. Either way Solas is possessed or co-habiting with/by a very powerful spirit who's presence is endorsed and acknowledged by Flemeth

 

We have seen almost all the Dalish believe in is, at best, an allegory of the true elven phanteon (hey, Mythal, hello! should't you be somewhere locked up with all the others elven gods? No? you have been around for ages jumping body after body? cool! Oh, and the Vallaslin. Mark of adulthood, eh? of being "a real Elf", right? Nope. Slave markings.).

 

Codex even inform than Fen'Harel = Dread Wolf si the wrong translation. Real meaning of Harel is Rebel. Rebel Wolf. Listen to Solas banter with Blackwall and Sera. Solas fought in a war. He have input to give Sera about her group if she may have the intention of make the Red Jennies a rebel group. He admire Briala. He said that the Elven gods where either powerful mages or something elses entirely.

 

The last encounter with Mythal is artistically ambigous. Flemeth accuse Solas of having given the orb. And he nor confirm, nor deny it. His answer can simply be a guilty man who didn't have the strenght to stop the events. But nowhere is even slightly mentioned/there is a doubt that he is in any way possessed or have inside any spirit (at least previous Mythal, but we still don't really know if he is possessed at all, or he have only Mythal's powers.).

And with Abelas he said "Elvhen like you?" Solas answer: "Yes. Elvhen like me." That to me said that Solas is an Ancient Elf, probably just like Abelas and the others Sentinels, but of different social extraction. No where anything about possession. (Abelas have Vallaslin. Solas Doesn't. Abelas is a sevant of Mythal, probably Solas was nobility, and servant to no one.)

 

You can stay of your opinion, of course. Nothing is really definitive about Solas, there are still many questions about him, and more mistery than facts.  but the "spirit possession" is not really belivable for me, expecially basing myself on the game.

[Erudius]

Honestly --- I just wanted Lace Harding to be a guys only romance-able character ...

[daveliam]

Honestly --- I just wanted Lace Harding to be a guys only romance-able character ...

I always find requests like this to be odd. Why 'guy only'? Lesbians have only 2 options too so why request a character to have sexuality be changed so that straight guys only get one additional option when they already have the same number of options as lesbians now?

[9TailsFox]

I always find requests like this to be odd. Why 'guy only'? Lesbians have only 2 options too so why request a character to have sexuality be changed so that straight guys only get one additional option when they already have the same number of options as lesbians now?

For same reason.

Why Cass male only?

Why Dorian male only why not bisexual?

Why Sera female only why not bisexual?

Why Cullen female only and why only Human and elf?

 

Just because reasons.

[Uirebhiril]

Not to be rude, but it's funny he should claim that when they'd already went so far as to record lines for him and the male Inquisitor, but they dropped it at the last second. But, then I've never had a reason to respect the writers as of yet, much less their constant feet-in-the-mouth.

 

 

It's been said time and again that they often have the voice actors record all lines, for all genders, just in case they want to use it. It's cheaper to do it that way than to have to call them back in and then potentially run into scheduling conflicts. It doesn't necessarily mean they meant for the character to be open to both genders. Just that the option is there if they want or need it.

 

I'll also say that I'm one of those glad for Solas and Cullen being added, because my canon female character would have been alone otherwise. I like Bull and find Blackwall interesting, but it wouldn't work for me (or my character) as far as a romance goes. I'm still left with Cass, Josie, and Dorian, who I've either already romanced or will in a future game. But without Cullen and Solas? Yeah, women would have had the short end of the stick even if it were even numbers.

[daveliam]

For same reason.

Why Cass male only?

Why Dorian male only why not bisexual?

Why Sera female only why not bisexual?

Why Cullen female only and why only Human and elf?

 

Just because reasons.

 

Except that Harding is already bisexual.  She can flirt with and be flirted with by female Inquisitors.  So for her to now be straight would be a "change" in her sexuality.  Isn't that what people complain about all the time for Anders and Kaidan?

[In Exile]

So, okay, Asari aren't women. They still look like human women though, which is something a straight woman wouldn't be into. That's like saying that a mono-gendered male race would be perfectly fine for a straight guy to romance because the race aren't really men.

Exactly. I'm fully persuaded by your idea of hot race of totally not bisexual space dudes. Let's have it, ME4.

[daveliam]

Exactly. I'm fully persuaded by your idea of hot race of totally not bisexual space dudes. Let's have it, ME4.

 

And let's have them be space-strippers (and give it a 'cultural' explanation) and mercenaries who wear skin tight 'armor' too!  I'm in!

[Grieving Natashina]

And let's have them be space-strippers (and give it a 'cultural' explanation) and mercenaries who wear skin tight 'armor' too!  I'm in!

I'm about to go to bed, but I'd enjoy that idea.  Signed!  And fun side topic stuff for the KISA thread.  

[In Exile]

And let's have them be space-strippers (and give it a 'cultural' explanation) and mercenaries who wear skin tight 'armor' too! I'm in!

Don't forget the colour based euphemism for their dicks that's just casually brought up in conversation.

[Felya87]

And let's have them be space-strippers (and give it a 'cultural' explanation) and mercenaries who wear skin tight 'armor' too!  I'm in!

 

I like this idea.

 

and if they can get pregnant every kind of race/sex, maybe it would be the time a female protagonist in a BioWare game can have at least a chance to became mother, or at least hope for it post game with headcanon, since female protagonist are always sterile and only males can have the chance to have children  .

I always found quite distastful the "you are female, so the corruption take away your fertility" for the Warden, while for males is "is harder, but possibile."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like this idea.

 

and if they can get pregnant every kind of race/sex, maybe it would be the time a female protagonist in a BioWare game can have at least a chance to became mother, or at least hope for it post game with headcanon, since female protagonist are always sterile and only males can have the chance to have children  .

I always found quite distastful the "you are female, so the corruption take away your fertility" for the Warden, while for males is "is harder, but possibile."

I tend to think that the reason it was possible for males has more to do with the Dark Ritual itself rather than the male Wardens being less sterile than women. Alistair says for both men and women Grey Wardens it is difficult but possible, as we can see with his mother being a Grey Warden when she got pregnant, but with two Wardens it is nearly impossible.

[Shechinah]

I got the impression the lessened fertility applies to both genders equally and what Hanako Ikezawa says in regards to the Dark Ritual.

[Felya87]

Mmmh...I must remembered wrong, then. I never played a Cousland Warden, and I have seen the dialogue about the fertility on youtube.

[Cobwebmaster]

We have seen almost all the Dalish believe in is, at best, an allegory of the true elven phanteon (hey, Mythal, hello! should't you be somewhere locked up with all the others elven gods? No? you have been around for ages jumping body after body? cool! Oh, and the Vallaslin. Mark of adulthood, eh? of being "a real Elf", right? Nope. Slave markings.).

 

Codex even inform than Fen'Harel = Dread Wolf si the wrong translation. Real meaning of Harel is Rebel. Rebel Wolf. Listen to Solas banter with Blackwall and Sera. Solas fought in a war. He have input to give Sera about her group if she may have the intention of make the Red Jennies a rebel group. He admire Briala. He said that the Elven gods where either powerful mages or something elses entirely.

 

The last encounter with Mythal is artistically ambigous. Flemeth accuse Solas of having given the orb. And he nor confirm, nor deny it. His answer can simply be a guilty man who didn't have the strenght to stop the events. But nowhere is even slightly mentioned/there is a doubt that he is in any way possessed or have inside any spirit (at least previous Mythal, but we still don't really know if he is possessed at all, or he have only Mythal's powers.).

And with Abelas he said "Elvhen like you?" Solas answer: "Yes. Elvhen like me." That to me said that Solas is an Ancient Elf, probably just like Abelas and the others Sentinels, but of different social extraction. No where anything about possession. (Abelas have Vallaslin. Solas Doesn't. Abelas is a sevant of Mythal, probably Solas was nobility, and servant to no one.)

 

You can stay of your opinion, of course. Nothing is really definitive about Solas, there are still many questions about him, and more mistery than facts.  but the "spirit possession" is not really belivable for me, expecially basing myself on the game.

During the ongoing exchanges between the politically aware Solas and other party members, particularly Cassandra,  it became very clear to me that Solas was often evasive and if not contemptuous of Cassandra at least unafraid of her, or her fellow Seekers/Templars

Through a simple scientific process of observation and analysis it became very evident that there were/are powerful presences in Thedas which may or may not be Elven, or Old Gods! These are at war with the Maker? From which  lyrium induced revelation did that come from?? At present and consistently parallel in DA lore the monotheistic belief is based on "faith" . As Morrigan said "How can you believe in a God who not once but twice rejected you"? - further who is it that enforces that belief? A bunch of dopehead thugs in armour, controlled by narrow minded but ambitious religious fanatics intent on repressing the population for their own ends! Cassandra is a typical example of "winning converts by the sword" a Crusader as steeped in evil and violence as any in the world. A muscle bound tank brain with a scapegoat hunter, and victimiser look about her!

Besides there is measurable evidence that powerful and eternal spirits worshipped (or not) by the ancient Elves exist, whether or not you choose to recognise it. Obversely, there is no evidence at all of "The Maker", but for doctrinal writings of apostles couched mostly  in allegory or outright falsehood. At one point Solas in a conversation (I think to delude or divert Cassandra) states "Why shouldn't I believe in The Maker? (or words to that effect) much as a polytheist would accept the existence of another God which he may or may not choose to worship or at least pay tribute to! 

But the Maker is the one true God and all of us must  bow down and worship HIM! Sound familiar? An exclusivity for the purpose of dominance and repression which holds a doctrine that does not permit the worship of any other god but their own. This obliges all believers to convert all that do not do by force,  conquest, and slavery if necessary!

I think I've given enough clues about where I am coming from, but as you say, we are all entitled to our views. I am relaxed with mine and do not seek to convert others with differing views, However the same cannot be said of monotheists who have no intention of tolerating other beliefs whether or not their own has any truth in it

 

[Felya87]

During the ongoing exchanges between the politically aware Solas and other party members, particularly Cassandra,  it became very clear to me that Solas was often evasive and if not contemptuous of Cassandra at least unafraid of her, or her fellow Seekers/Templars

Through a simple scientific process of observation and analysis it became very evident that there were/are powerful presences in Thedas which may or may not be Elven, or Old Gods! These are at war with the Maker? From which  lyrium induced revelation did that come from?? At present and consistently parallel in DA lore the monotheistic belief is based on "faith" . As Morrigan said "How can you believe in a God who not once but twice rejected you"? - further who is it that enforces that belief? A bunch of dopehead thugs in armour, controlled by narrow minded but ambitious religious fanatics intent on repressing the population for their own ends! Cassandra is a typical example of "winning converts by the sword" a Crusader as steeped in evil and violence as any in the world. A muscle bound tank brain with a scapegoat hunter, and victimiser look about her!

Besides there is measurable evidence that powerful and eternal spirits worshipped (or not) by the ancient Elves exist, whether or not you choose to recognise it. Obversely, there is no evidence at all of "The Maker", but for doctrinal writings of apostles couched mostly  in allegory or outright falsehood. At one point Solas in a conversation (I think to delude or divert Cassandra) states "Why shouldn't I believe in The Maker? (or words to that effect) much as a polytheist would accept the existence of another God which he may or may not choose to worship or at least pay tribute to! 

But the Maker is the one true God and all of us must  bow down and worship HIM! Sound familiar? An exclusivity for the purpose of dominance and repression which holds a doctrine that does not permit the worship of any other god but their own. This obliges all believers to convert all that do not do by force,  conquest, and slavery if necessary!

I think I've given enough clues about where I am coming from, but as you say, we are all entitled to our views. I am relaxed with mine and do not seek to convert others with differing views, However the same cannot be said of monotheists who have no intention of tolerating other beliefs whether or not their own has any truth in it

 

 

Solas is always evasive. And why should't he be? He doesn't want to be recognized as a ancient elf, probably responsible (at least in part) of the end of the elvhen ancient culture. He is not afraid (as Bull and Cullen make it clear, he is a powerful mage, but who doesn't attire attention over himself) but he surely is wottied about Cassandra and templars. More than one time he make it clear he isn't totally at ease in the Inquisition (Haven) since he is an apostate mage surrounded by templars. (hey, his first flirt option is about protecting him from being imprisoned!)

His dialogues with Cassandra are quite interesting. He is very curious (and probably worried) about the templars ability to stop magic. and about the Maker he is very contemplative of the idea of a divinity who doesn't need to prove itself. He is no believer, but he contemplate the idea, and respect Cassandra.

 

Cassandra is much less terrible that you make her. She isn't the bloodlust fanatic you make her be (she isn't Sera Just sayng) . Just as not the entire Chantry is. To me, you read too much in some things, and extremize them.

 

By the way, the devs have already said that the existance of the Maker will never be confirmed. Or denyed.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

For same reason.

Why Cass male only?

Why Dorian male only why not bisexual?

Why Sera female only why not bisexual?

Why Cullen female only and why only Human and elf?

 

Just because reasons.

 

Dorian is the only person on this list who has a story reason for his sexuality. Including him here is pointless, as it's explained why. Lol

[Uirebhiril]

Dorian is the only person on this list who has a story reason for his sexuality. Including him here is pointless, as it's explained why. Lol

 

I don't know that there ever needs to be a story reason for a person's sexuality. They are what they are. Racial preferences, sure, have a story reason. Whether that's something as simple as "I find X personally attractive" or a bit more involved, like "I'm an elven god." I'd find it a bit distasteful if we had to sit down and listen to anyone justify why they prefer a particular gender. Aren't we trying to get away from that in real life?

 

In Dorian's case, he has a story arc that involves his sexuality. It doesn't explain why he prefers men. Nor does it need to, honestly.

[Domiel Angelus]

They should add Dagna and Harding as full romances in a DLC <.< Or add Krem in there somewhere. There are many avenues within the game itself they could take to bring the counts up to an even number if they chose to. 

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

I don't know that there ever needs to be a story reason for a person's sexuality. They are what they are. Racial preferences, sure, have a story reason. Whether that's something as simple as "I find X personally attractive" or a bit more involved, like "I'm an elven god." I'd find it a bit distasteful if we had to sit down and listen to anyone justify why they prefer a particular gender. Aren't we trying to get away from that in real life?

 

In Dorian's case, he has a story arc that involves his sexuality. It doesn't explain why he prefers men. Nor does it need to, honestly.

 

No, I don't think sexualities need to be explained at all, nor do I need them to be. I was simply saying that since Dorian's the only one there whose sexuality is a (small) part of his character (and learning more about him) that he shouldn't be on the list. I mean his is the only sexuality that is fervently enforced because he's the only character we've had so far who's had a troubling life just because of who he is and isn't into.

 

Also, sexualities are pretty self-explanatory in my opinion, and to have a real "reason" behind them, beyond simply being born that way, wouldn't make any sense. I agree that listening to someone try to explain what they're into and why would be distasteful. I mean Dorian doesn't go "I only like men, and here's why." He's simply always been that way, and life as an heir makes being gay very stressful, and this is the only reason his sexuality is really brought into things at any point.

 

As for everyone else, they don't need to be explained (though I'd still like to know how some elven spirit can have a sexuality, much less a specific one). If they simply aren't into the same sex or opposite sex, that's just them, and they never had a story reason to get into it (nor would a straight person need one anyway, haha.) Personally, though, unless Egg is explained (and explained well, at that) I'd have no issue with people "headcanon-ing" him or Cullen as bisexual, considering it was originally in the works anyway.

 

Also, I'm fairly certain they don't do that whole "record all the lines for everyone" thing anymore. The massive amounts of silence from a male Shepard (after the first ME, to be specific) who used flags to romance Kaidan are telling enough. Same with using a mod to romance a character in DAI who isn't meant to romance that sex.