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Something I'm still bothered by (romance-related)


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#276
Domiel Angelus

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No, I don't think sexualities need to be explained at all, nor do I need them to be. I was simply saying that since Dorian's the only one there whose sexuality is a (small) part of his character (and learning more about him) that he shouldn't be on the list. I mean his is the only sexuality that is fervently enforced because he's the only character we've had so far who's had a troubling life just because of who he is and isn't into.

 

Also, sexualities are pretty self-explanatory in my opinion, and to have a real "reason" behind them, beyond simply being born that way, wouldn't make any sense. I agree that listening to someone try to explain what they're into and why would be distasteful. I mean Dorian doesn't go "I only like men, and here's why." He's simply always been that way, and life as an heir makes being gay very stressful, and this is the only reason his sexuality is really brought into things at any point.

 

As for everyone else, they don't need to be explained (though I'd still like to know how some elven spirit can have a sexuality, much less a specific one). If they simply aren't into the same sex or opposite sex, that's just them, and they never had a story reason to get into it (nor would a straight person need one anyway, haha.) Personally, though, unless Egg is explained (and explained well, at that) I'd have no issue with people "headcanon-ing" him or Cullen as bisexual, considering it was originally in the works anyway.

 

Also, I'm fairly certain they don't do that whole "record all the lines for everyone" thing anymore. The massive amounts of silence from a male Shepard (after the first ME, to be specific) who used flags to romance Kaidan are telling enough. Same with using a mod to romance a character in DAI who isn't meant to romance that sex.

 

We've got Krem <.<



#277
Grieving Natashina

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We've got Krem <.<

 Gender identity and sexual identity aren't one and the same.  I'll grant you that Krem's experiences in some ways has a bit more an impact as a transman in video games (due to such a character being so rare to see and that's depicted tastefully in games at all,) but that has nothing to do with his sexuality and everything to do with his gender identity


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#278
CDR Aedan Cousland

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We've got Krem <.<

 

Oh, you're right of course, but I meant companion/main character. I should have been more specific. Edit: Also, Nat's right, too, as I was specifically referring to orientation, lol.

 

Also, as for Krem ever being a romance, I wouldn't have an issue with it, personally, but I dunno. I'm not sure he'd be received well. Yes, he's a guy, but he doesn't have the equipment of a guy. So unless we're playing a bisexual person (of either gender), no one would be into him. Straight women and a gay men can't just look past the incompatible equipment.



#279
Grieving Natashina

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Oh, you're right of course, but I meant companion/main character. I should have been more specific. Edit: Also, Nat's right, too, as I was specifically referring to orientation, lol.

 

Also, as for Krem ever being a romance, I wouldn't have an issue with it, personally, but I dunno. I'm not sure he'd be received well. Yes, he's a guy, but he doesn't have the equipment of a guy. So unless we're playing a bisexual person (of either gender), no one would be into him. Straight women and a gay men can't just look past the incompatible equipment.

That, and I hate to be that person, but I don't think a lot of folks are ready for a transgendered LI.  At least, not yet.  I think we should start by having a trans companion, then go from there.

 

Maevaris for DA4!!!


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#280
AresKeith

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That, and I hate to be that person, but I don't think a lot of folks are ready for a transgendered LI.  At least, not yet.  I think we should start by having a trans companion, then go from there.

 

Maevaris for DA4!!!

 

With this outfit design :P

 

GqAtI6p.jpg


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#281
Grieving Natashina

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With this outfit design :P

 

<snip>

Where is that from?  DA MP?  Forgive my ignorance, but I've never fired up the MP section.

 

Oh and yes to your idea.



#282
AresKeith

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Where is that from?  DA MP?  Forgive my ignorance, but I've never fired up the MP section.

 

Oh and yes to your idea.

 

It's from the mobile game Heroes of Dragon Age

 

they have some really good character designs 



#283
Grieving Natashina

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It's from the mobile game Heroes of Dragon Age

 

they have some really good character designs 

Alas, I am one of the few people left in the Western World that doesn't own a cellphone.  Still, thanks for putting this up.  It's been a rough week for me, so I appreciate the smile.  <hug>



#284
Broganisity

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"Johnson we need, let's see...eight romances. . .four bi-sexuals, two straights per gender. . ."

 

:huh:

 

Don't see it as an issue. Romances shouldn't be tailored to the player, but be tailored to the character. Each character has different interests and disinterests. Better they are all made as they are than made towards some sort of 'romance quote'. If there's more romances for males over females or vice versa? So be it. Romances aren't and should not be so big an issue, let alone so big a game feature that there needs to be so many of them.

 

Reflect this rather than make everyone in Kirkwall magically bi-sexual for convenience. ;)


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#285
Vylix

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Reflect this rather than make everyone in Kirkwall magically bi-sexual for convenience. ;)

 But magical bisexuality is the best bisexuality :P

 

Can we make it a slightly bigger game feature though? As in more in depth? Just a teeny tiiiiiny bit?



#286
CDR Aedan Cousland

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"Johnson we need, let's see...eight romances. . .four bi-sexuals, two straights per gender. . ."

 

:huh:

 

Don't see it as an issue. Romances shouldn't be tailored to the player, but be tailored to the character. Each character has different interests and disinterests. Better they are all made as they are than made towards some sort of 'romance quote'. If there's more romances for males over females or vice versa? So be it. Romances aren't and should not be so big an issue, let alone so big a game feature that there needs to be so many of them.

 

Reflect this rather than make everyone in Kirkwall magically bi-sexual for convenience. ;)

 

That's fine, and while I said I'm okay with an "everyone is bi" compromise (it's far better than having virtually no choice depending on your orientation,) I'd still prefer variation. I just really want everyone to have plenty of choices (it is a roleplaying series, after all, or it's supposed to be,) especially without sacrificing character development and story. "This or that" is a pretty limited choice. Of course, if Bioware tried to have a say in it, I'm sure it would go more like this: "You don't have just two choices; you've got three! This, that, or no one at all! Hurr!" And it'd be drenched in its usual condescension with a hint of unprofessional rudeness.



#287
Grieving Natashina

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That's fine, and while I said I'm okay with an "everyone is bi" compromise, I'd still prefer variation. I just really want everyone to have plenty of choices, especially without sacrificing character development and story. "This or that" is a pretty limited choice. Of course, if Bioware tried to have a say in it, I'm sure it would go more like this: "You don't have just two choices; you've got three! This, that, or no one at all! Hurr!" And it'd be drenched in its usual condescension with a hint of unprofessional rudeness.

Also, I have to mention again your tone.  You're not being demanding about it.  You're also not saying that straight men deserve the majority of the options.  Only that another one would be welcome.  Personally, it would be nice if the lady companion was also bisexual to open up another option for lesbians as well.  Shoot, I've seen you post before that while it would be nice for the straight male characters to get another romance, the LGBT community should definitely have another option as well.


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#288
CDR Aedan Cousland

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Also, I have to mention again your tone.  You're not being demanding about it.  You're also not saying that straight men deserve the majority of the options.  Only that another one would be welcome.  Personally, it would be nice if the lady companion was also bisexual to open up another option for lesbians as well.  Shoot, I've seen you post before that while it would be nice for the straight male characters to get another romance, the LGBT community should definitely have another option as well.

 

Exactly! More choices (but not too many, I mean let's be real here, lol) = happier customers! And if half of the LI options were bisexual, while the others were restricted (2/4/2,) every straight and gay/lesbian player would have three options each, rather than just two. Everyone likes having a better selection! Having three choices over two is a surprising difference, and I think a lot more people would be content with that. When there's just two, there's a much bigger risk of having no desirable choices (see IB and Blackwall for a lot of straight women who were relieved to get Cullen and Egg at the last second.) As a bonus of 2/4/2, everyone still gets representation! And if the characters are written well, no one should feel shoehorned (I hate that, personally.)

 

Also, as far as lots of bisexuals being potentially unrealistic goes, yes, it would be in our world. But, from everything I've seen so far, I think bisexual people are common (not as common as straight people, but they're up there) in the Dragon Age universe, or simply far more abundant than they are in our world. It's just something I thought of. It'd be nigh impossible to pull off lots of gay and lesbian characters in the DA universe because we still see that they are uncommon, but we've seen the opposite of bisexuals. :)

 

I need to stop abusing parentheses...


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#289
Grieving Natashina

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Also, as far as lots of bisexuals being potentially unrealistic goes, yes, it would be in our world. But, from everything I've seen so far, I think bisexual people are common (not as common as straight people, but they're up there) in the Dragon Age universe, or simply far more abundant than they are in our world. It's just something I thought of. It'd be nigh impossible to pull off lots of gay and lesbian characters in the DA universe because we still see that they are uncommon, but we've seen the opposite of bisexuals. :)

 

I need to stop abusing parentheses...

I try not bring up the bisexual realism argument if I can avoid it.  Nothing against you, but it's been a giant can of worms 'round here for years. Since it's been opened, I might as well toss my thoughts out there.

 

I am bisexual, and I know that men and women that are bi/pan are far more common than most people think.  For my experience, especially when it comes bisexual men, who can get the worst of the harassment from both the straight and gay communities.  They are also the friends of mine that end up staying in the closet for years more often than not.

 

That being said, the level of exposure that bisexuals have had in the DA games should not be taken as a reflection of the sexual majority in Thedas as a whole.  Yes, we've had a lot of bisexual characters, but to say that is how it goes in Thedas isn't accurate at all.  Just because we've only seen one confirmed gay couple in a long term committed relationship doesn't mean that homosexuality is all that rare.   Same with lesbian couples and we've had a few of those (including the Empress and Briala.) Thedas seems to be more like our world in the sense that the majority of people appear to be straight and in heterosexual relationships. (stressing those words for emphasis, since I know Thedas isn't Earth, nor that everyone in a heterosexual relationship is straight.)

 

I'm not a fan of the "all bisexual route" because I feel it's possibly damaging in a few ways:

 

1) While a character isn't based around their sexuality, obviously, it does help shape a character in subtle ways.  Things like mentioning past relationships or current relationships while talking to friends.  This goes for any sexuality, even asexuality.  Sex isn't required for a meaningful relationship, after all.  Often times, a former love can have a powerful impact on the motivations of a character in the present.  It's an excellent method of story telling, when done right.  Should we just throw that all away in favor of the player having the all the relationships bi?  

 

2) Bisexuality becoming playersexuality.  This really really sucks.  As someone that was outed as bisexual in high school, many folks already tend to think that being bisexual = screwing everything that's human, adult and with a pulse.  That bisexuals "just haven't found the right man/woman yet and when they do, they'll be gay/straight."  I got told this by my own mom as well as by other adults.  While this wouldn't be the intent, having yet more bisexual characters that don't talk about their past in the slightest doesn't help.  

 

There are exceptions, such as with Josie, where the writers managed to get that intention across with some very excellent and subtle writing without her being very overt about it.  That fits the character.  However, characters such as Zevran, Iron Bull, Merrill, Anders (at least to a female Hawke) and Fenris barely or never mentioning an attraction to the same sex isn't a great representation of bisexuality.  They don't have to scream, "I'm into both vagoos and penises (peni?)," but a person's romantic past can help inform them of why they are/who they are now.

 

3) This pretty much removes all other kinds of sexual representation.  Just because one group is the minority doesn't mean they get to replace the majority.  Including one group shouldn't mean that another group gets excluded.  Straight characters should be there right along with gay, bisexual and even demi/asexual characters.  Sure, many of those hetero relationships have been done very often in media, but does that make them any less valid?  I don't believe so.  It helps the game feel fuller to me, and probably to others as well.   The point is to have room for more types of romances, straight or otherwise.  You know, a balance.   ;)

 

Please forgive me if, again, I sounded a little ranty.  It wasn't aimed at your direction, I promise.  I used to be a fan of the all bisexual system until I spent last summer really thinking about it.  Now I'm really more of a fan of a diverse cast of sexualities, as well as realizing that asking for all bisexual characters excludes others.  I know that other folks don't feel the same way, and I wouldn't ask you to agree.  

 

I also don't claim to be "THE END ALL BE ALL VOICE FOR 30 SOMETHING BISEXUAL WOMEN EVERYWHERE!"  I'm throwing that in because I've been accused of that in the past by some posters.  I'm not claiming to speak for anyone else, just my own point of view.


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#290
Gilsa

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Former Varricmancer here.  I remember back in August when I had to set my Cadash/Varric ship ablaze.  <hugs>  It was a sad day.

 

Allan mentioned last year in a thread that office rumor says that Mary Kirby doesn't enjoy writing romances.  I suspect that she's had this thing with Bianca planned for some time.  I don't think it was lazy, but it felt rushed.  It felt like that quest was cut a little short, and chances were missed to actually talk to Bianca.  I know this game had a lot of time in development, but that sequence felt kinda tacked on to me.  

 

When it comes to Ms. Kirby, if you look at the characters she's done for the DA games, none of them were romance options for the PC.  I don't expect any romances to come from her, but I think we have potential in other areas.  A lot of people have received Harding very well, even asking for her to have a fully-fledged romance in a DLC.  So that gives me some hope that BioWare will finally offer the first dwarven romance in the nearly 16 years of games that have included the race, even if Harding isn't who they go with for future games.

 

I agree. By this point, I think most people have races they prefer to play as. I appreciate that dwarves have a smaller group of fans, but there are those of us who mainly just play dwarves. I don't mind playing as a human when there is no other choice like in DA2, but in a setting where dwarves are present and available as companions, it's disheartening to go game after game with not being able to romance them at all. (Qunaris have made their debut as player characters and they already have a qunari companion they can romance right out of the gate. Dwarves continue to wait.) Varric and Harding have made great strides with how well received they have been received by the fandom. Romancing a dwarf for the first time ever is going to be a big milestone so I have mixed feelings about Harding's romance potentially being tacked on with a DLC like an afterthought. Then again, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't truly matter. Bioware has made bigger strides with offering bisexual and gay romances, which is way more inclusive for their fans than one fictional race could ever be. The upside is that throughout the series all of the romanceable companions have not made an issue out of dating a dwarf and generally treat it as a positive experience. The race-gated ones have been classy as well, not rejecting on basis of race either.


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#291
Broganisity

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Oh, I actually read none of the thread prior, so that later comment in my post was about DA:II...Pffft, reading twelve pages, you crazy!

But yeah, I'd much rather have less romances than we did in Inquisition, and rather more meaningful relationships in general with your companions, romances included. . .Heck, I'd rather have six companions at start instead of the nine we had in Inquisition, not including the advisors.


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#292
CDR Aedan Cousland

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Thanks for the perspective, Nat! You make excellent points that I'm happy to agree with. ^_^

 

As an asexual myself, that was one of the reasons why I thought it'd be great if all or most of our LI's could come with an option from now on for either a chaste romance and/or putting off intercourse (and not witnessing it in game, like for Dorian). That, and I really don't like having nudity shoved in my face (Bioware, please bring back the smallclothes, preferably nice looking ones...)

 

But yeah, I'd be truly happiest if all the main groups got fair representation, and I definitely agree that everyone being bi or "playersexual" would completely eliminate that. I'd be really sad if gay men and gay women just stopped existing in favor for this system. And a lack of straight representation would be incredibly jarring and I could see it being very offensive (arguably the most, since it's "the majority"), too. And then there'd likely be the inevitable complaints about some gay/bi agenda. :P


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#293
Grieving Natashina

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Thanks for the perspective, Nat! You make excellent points that I'm happy to agree with. ^_^

 And then there'd likely be the inevitable complaints about some gay/bi agenda. :P

You're welcome.  I can tell you haven't been here long.  <hugs>  The Gay Agenda been going on since, oh, probably 2008 or so around here.  :P

 

Have you stopped by Hana's thread yet?  She's got some good ideas and I think you guys would see eye-to-eye in some areas.  FTIW, I would be happy if more LIs had a cuddle option like you could in the ME games with Garrus, Kelly and I think Sam as well.  Sex scenes don't bother me nor does the nudity; one of my favorite parts of the IB romance was him and the Inquisitor just chatting after sex with her topless.  However, I'm a big fan of clothed cuddling action too.  


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#294
CDR Aedan Cousland

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You're welcome.  I can tell you haven't been here long.  <hugs>  The Gay Agenda been going on since, oh, probably 2008 or so around here.   :P

 

Have you stopped by Hana's thread yet?  She's got some good ideas and I think you guys would see eye-to-eye in some areas.  FTIW, I would be happy if more LIs had a cuddle option like you could in the ME games with Garrus, Kelly and I think Sam as well.  Sex scenes don't bother me nor does the nudity; one of my favorite parts of the IB romance was him and the Inquisitor just chatting after sex with her topless.  However, I'm a big fan of clothed cuddling action too.  

 

I'll have to give it another look and see what's new. :)

 

I mean, nudity doesn't offend me anything, but I'd still prefer to avoid it when I can, and not be blindsided by it, lol. If I had to ogle look at a naked body, I'd personally very much prefer it to be a man's... :whistle:  I've always been really squeamish about female bodies for some reason. But I can't mention that otherwise certain people will think I'm some kind of "prude" for being grossed out by boobs and the like despite that I'm a female myself and am put off even by my own equipment. [grumbles] This TMI brought to you by CDR Aedan Cousland.



#295
Grieving Natashina

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I'll have to give it another look and see what's new. :)

 

I mean, nudity doesn't offend me anything, but I'd still prefer to avoid it when I can, and not be blindsided by it, lol. If I had to ogle look at a naked body, I'd personally very much prefer it to be a man's... :whistle:  I've always been really squeamish about female bodies for some reason. But I can't mention that otherwise certain people will think I'm some kind of "prude" for being grossed out by boobs and the like despite that I'm a female myself and am put off even by my own equipment. [grumbles]

Three words for you: Dat Dorian butt.  I'm not trying to sound like a total pervert, but that is one of the most finely rendered backsides I've ever seen in a game.  That goes for either gender.


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#296
Hanako Ikezawa

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I welcome any new discussions. ^_^



#297
CDR Aedan Cousland

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Three words for you: Dat Dorian butt.  I'm not trying to sound like a total pervert, but that is one of the most finely rendered backsides I've ever seen in a game.  That goes for either gender.

 

Indeed. I was not unhappy to see that (though it totally caught me off guard in my first playthrough)! :wub: I was like, "Nudity? In my Dragon Age game? It's more likely than you think I'm glad I'll be sticking with Dorian." On that note, I was also pleased to discover that Josie's is a chaste relationship (at least onscreen, thankfully), so she's my go-to for my lesbian Inquisitor. ^_^



#298
PsychoBlonde

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Still totally not getting why it's so bloody important to have numerical "equality".

 

My take is this: Did you have a romance option you liked?  

 

Yes?  OUTSTANDING, YOU WIN THE UNIVERSE.

 

No?  Aww, too bad.  I have many feels for you, as this was my situation in Origins.  HOPE YOU GET ONE NEXT GO AROUND!!!!

 

Did you not get "as many" options for your preferred character as someone else might have for their preferred character?  Cue WORLD'S SMALLEST VIOLIN.  Sorry, too busy focusing my feels on the people who didn't have anyone they liked--unless they're of the 'not enough blond pornstar babes' variety, because screw those shallow twits.   :P


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#299
Grieving Natashina

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I welcome any new discussions. ^_^

Frankly, there isn't many places in the more mainstream gaming community for ace/demisexuals to talk and hang out.  I know how lonely it could get being bisexual, and it's not that an uncommon of sexuality.  I won't condescend you or any other asexual player by pretending to know what it's like for a second, but I try to steer ace folks towards your thread.  Folks shouldn't have to feel like freaks just because they don't enjoy sex and having other people to chat that are the same way is healthy imho.  Besides, more ideas = less creative stagnation in game stories.

 

 

Still totally not getting why it's so bloody important to have numerical "equality".

 

My take is this: Did you have a romance option you liked?  

 

Yes?  OUTSTANDING, YOU WIN THE UNIVERSE.

 

No?  Aww, too bad.  I have many feels for you, as this was my situation in Origins.  HOPE YOU GET ONE NEXT GO AROUND!!!!

 

Did you not get "as many" options for your preferred character as someone else might have for their preferred character?  Cue WORLD'S SMALLEST VIOLIN.  Sorry, too busy focusing my feels on the people who didn't have anyone they liked--unless they're of the 'not enough blond pornstar babes' variety, because screw those shallow twits.    :P

I can assure you, the OP isn't the "waah my options aren't hot enough" type at all.  The OP isn't suggesting that numerical equality is the end all be all (and thank Odin for that.)  The first post was a little rough, but there has been some awesome lore discussions in the thread.  I was concerned at first too, but the thread has turned out much better than I thought.  The OP is alright and not like a certain other poster that is obsessive about this.


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#300
Hanako Ikezawa

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Indeed. I was not unhappy to see that (though it totally caught me off guard in my first playthrough)! :wub: I was like, "Nudity? In my Dragon Age game? It's more likely than you think I'm glad I'll be sticking with Dorian." On that note, I was also pleased to discover that Josie's is a chaste relationship (at least onscreen, thankfully), so she's my go-to for my lesbian Inquisitor. ^_^

Yeah, Josephine was a godsend in terms of romances for me. Made DAI the first Bioware game in over a decade where my canon self-insert character would actually romance someone since I wouldn't be forced into a premarital sexual relationship. 

 

Just got to ignore the whole her and Rainier thing. 


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