Agree.
Not good. She commits murder.
Agree.
I know what you're doing.
You know my views on him. On the scale though, agree.
So...bad? If so, agree.
Probably should've asked for who you thought was good.
Who hasn't in DA honestly?
No I did that because He was a "Grey Warden" and Grey heh 
Solas I guess could be bad, depending on what he's trying to do
As for Good:
Cassandra, Cole, Cullen, Josie. Leliana, Varric, and Iron Bull is also Grey
I don't see what you are talking about. I've read the all the codex entries regarding the Chevaliers. I don't think you have at all. There is nothing there that says that the Chevaliers have to commit murder. Period. Also, make up your mind. Is it murder or murdering city elves? See, I saw nothing that stated in the lore outside of one Chevalier (Michel's boss) that says you have to do that.
I see you throwing an entire group under the bus based upon the words of one book. No one can be individuals in your eyes if they apart of this group. Let me break back down the list, and I'll focus on examples of the negative aspects.
Templars--Several examples in the games and the EU of how awful they can be. Mages made tranquil as punishment, and sometimes for folks like Alrik to take advantage of.
Circle Mages, including the various different factions--You've read Asunder, which among many included the dubious act of Adrian framing Rhys for murder. That book pretty much showed all sides of Circle mages, good and bad. Enough said.
The Seekers--Lambert, Cassandra's boss and plenty of others I could dig up.
Chantry brothers and sisters--Blood thirsty easily led mob against the Qunari by Patrice in DA2, among too many other greedy, selfish or murderous members in the EU and games to count.
The Qunari--The Arishok in DA2, the use of Qamek and being made into a mindless drone. The comics got a little dark in parts.
The Wardens--Even prior to this game, you had people like Avernus, and I'm sorry but using blood magic for a couple hundred years is pretty damned brutal, even if it was for good intentions.
Edit: How could I forget Tevinter--The slavers in Origins and then Danarius in DA2.
All of these formal groups have had exceptions to the rule being shown as party members, advisers and/or major NPCs in the games/books/comics. So we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Who hasn't in DA honestly?
A lot of people. But we're stuck with mainly the "Murder is A-OK" crowd with companions.
As for Good:
Cassandra, Cole, Cullen, Josie.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Cole: No, he committed murder. He's sorry now, but still did it.
Cullen: Supported abuse of mages for years.
Josephine: Agreed.
Guest_Mlady_*
Who hasn't in DA honestly?
No I did that because He was a "Grey Warden" and Grey heh
Solas I guess could be bad, depending on what he's trying to do
As for Good:
Cassandra, Cole, Cullen, Josie. Leliana, Varric, and Iron Bull is also Grey
Lol there were times I kept side-glancing at Leliana. I swear when Varric said he wasn't sure about her, it was like he was reading my thoughts. I worked hard to keep her from becoming Princess Stabbity because I feared for my life!
Lol there were times I kept side-glancing at Leliana. I swear when Varric said he wasn't sure about her, it was like he was reading my thoughts. I worked hard to keep her from becoming Princess Stabbity because I feared for my life!
Yeah, I have to agree here. I was startled by Leliana in this game. I would say that she starts off as rather grey and if you have a world state that had the Warden defeat her, she's extremely cold. I don't, but I've seen footage.
I don't see what you are talking about. I've read the all the codex entries regarding the Chevaliers. I don't think you have at all. There is nothing there that says that the Chevaliers have to commit murder. Period. Also, make up your mind. Is it murder or murdering city elves? See, I saw nothing that stated in the lore outside of one Chevalier (Michel's boss) that says you have to do that.
I see you throwing an entire group under the bus based upon the words of one book. No one can be individuals in your eyes if they apart of this group. Let me break back down the list and I'll point out this time what some of the group's more dark aspects are.
Templars--Several examples in the games and the EU of how awful they can be. Mages made tranquil as punishment, and sometimes for folks like Alrik to take advantage of.
Circle Mages, including the various different factions--You've read Asunder, which among many included the dubious act of Adrian framing Rhys for murder. That book pretty much showed all sides of Circle mages, good and bad Enough said.
The Seekers--Lambert, Cassandra's boss and plenty of others I could dig up.
Chantry brothers and sisters--Blood thirsty easily led mob against the Qunari by Patrice in DA2, among too many to count.
The Qunari--The Arishok in DA2, the use of Qamek and being made into a mindless drone. The comics got a little dark in parts.
The Wardens--Even prior to this game, you had people like Avernus, and I'm sorry but using blood magic for a few hundred years is pretty damned brutal, even if it was for good intentions.
All of these formal groups have had exceptions to the rule being shown as party members, advisers and/or major NPCs. So we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
I have read the Codex entries, yes.
It is stated in a book. Did they not do what they did to Loghain's mother, dog, and countless others simply because it isn't in the Chevalier Codex entries? And there is nothing at all that says they don't have to do that. So there is a piece of evidence saying they do, and none saying they don't. One is greater than zero, so until there is evidence stating it isn't mandatory, the only logical result is that it is. Thus yes I will throw the organization under the bus because every member of the organization is guilty of it.
Since you also brought up the wiki to support your side, from the Chevalier page:
Do any of those other orders have an initiation that involves committing murder? If so, then none of the members of it are good either.
You were talking about how you wanted a lesbian warrior love interest, then talk about liking her and "wanting to have her babies", implying sex. Forgive me for thinking you were on the same train of thought as your previous posts.
I said her because Mlady mentioned avvar and i remembered her. Not that i'd like her to be a future romance, i'm not that desperate. I just said that i like her and i would've loved a lady avvar with a personality similar to hers.
I don't see what you are talking about. I've read the all the codex entries regarding the Chevaliers. I don't think you have at all. There is nothing there that says that the Chevaliers have to commit murder. Period. Also, make up your mind. Is it murder or murdering city elves? See, I saw nothing that stated in the lore outside of one Chevalier (Michel's boss) that says you have to do that.
I see you throwing an entire group under the bus based upon the words of one book. No one can be individuals in your eyes if they apart of this group. Let me break back down the list, and I'll focus on examples of the negative aspects.
Templars--Several examples in the games and the EU of how awful they can be. Mages made tranquil as punishment, and sometimes for folks like Alrik to take advantage of.
Circle Mages, including the various different factions--You've read Asunder, which among many included the dubious act of Adrian framing Rhys for murder. That book pretty much showed all sides of Circle mages, good and bad. Enough said.
The Seekers--Lambert, Cassandra's boss and plenty of others I could dig up.
Chantry brothers and sisters--Blood thirsty easily led mob against the Qunari by Patrice in DA2, among too many other greedy, selfish or murderous members in the EU and games to count.
The Qunari--The Arishok in DA2, the use of Qamek and being made into a mindless drone. The comics got a little dark in parts.
The Wardens--Even prior to this game, you had people like Avernus, and I'm sorry but using blood magic for a couple hundred years is pretty damned brutal, even if it was for good intentions.
All of these formal groups have had exceptions to the rule being shown as party members, advisers and/or major NPCs in the games/books/comics. So we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
/drops mic
A lot of people. But we're stuck with mainly the "Murder is A-OK" crowd with companions.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Cole: No, he committed murder. He's sorry now, but still did it.
Cullen: Supported abuse of mages for years.
Josephine: Agreed.
You mainly focus on their past, I don't
Guest_Mlady_*
You mainly focus on their past, I don't
I would agree with Cole if the third option they made for the game would have happened. You had the option to have him kill the Templar and he would later become binded to Cory and fight you. In fact, part of the dialogue remains in the game.
You see everything waaaaaay too black/white, hanako.
Why is that a problem? It's kept me safe and done me well for years now.
You mainly focus on their past, I don't
A person is the sum of their past.
You mainly focus on their past, I don't
Also, completely ignore reasons to why people kill: see Sera. She isn't a murderer, she never once said about killing nobles but this one killed someone innocent in front of her and admitted in front of her that he doesn't even care about killing the downtrodden. Errr, even my quizzy would've killed him or shove him to a prison and rot there. (too bad this wasn't an option)
Also, completely ignore reasons to why people kill: see Sera. She isn't a murderer, she never once said about killing nobles but this one killed someone innocent in front of her and admitted in front of her that he doesn't even care about killing the downtrodden. Errr, even my quizzy would've killed him or shove him to a prison and rot there. (too bad this wasn't an option)
Quite. Sera screwed with and embarrased nobles, but she sure as hell never killed any of them.
Not all the time and not every person
Everything isn't as black and white
Black and white is easy and safe.
A person is the sum of their past.
No it's not. And don't generalize, pls. People are different.
Not all the time and not every person
Everything isn't as black and white
I'd say that a person's past shapes who they are and someone healthy doesn't allow their past to define them. Given my own history with drug and alcohol abuse, I know what I'm talking about. Those aren't the summation of who I will always be (15 years meth free and 4 years drink free,) but those experiences and then getting/staying clean did shape me into the person I am today.
I'd say that a person's past shapes who they are and someone healthy doesn't allow their past to define them. Given my own history with drug and alcohol abuse, I know what I'm talking about. Those aren't the summation of who I will always be (15 years meth free and 6 years drink free,) but those experiences and then getting/staying clean did shape me into the person I am today.
Amen.
Also, completely ignore reasons to why people kill: see Sera. She isn't a murderer, she never once said about killing nobles but this one killed someone innocent in front of her and admitted in front of her that he doesn't even care about killing the downtrodden. Errr, even my quizzy would've killed him or shove him to a prison and rot there. (too bad this wasn't an option)
No, she committed murder. She intentionally killed someone who was not endangering her or someone else's life at that moment. That is a legal definition of murder.
Quite. Sera screwed with and embarrased nobles, but she sure as hell never killed any of them.
Minus the one she does in both her recruitment and possibly personal quests. And that's just the ones we are there to witness.
No, she committed murder. She intentionally killed someone who was not endangering her or someone else's life at that moment. That is a legal definition of murder.
Minus the one she does in both her recruitment and possibly personal quests. And that's just the ones we are there to witness.
Say that to the poor sod he killed, and others. What about them?
Say that to the poor sod he killed. What about him?
He was also the victim of murder. But murdering a murderer doesn't mean what you did isn't still murder.
hm, can't tell if I should run away or stay......
It's also generalizing and unfair
Can be, but not always. And even when it is, sometimes it is required and better than the alternatives.
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