1591 réponses à ce sujet

[Ilwerin]

Romances are definitely spice of BioWare games. Building relationships and knowing better our companions are the main reasons why I love them so much. But I have to agree with DSiKn355 and CathyMe. 

 

These games are for adults and I really don't understand why romances have so little space. Is it an issue in USA or what? I have a feeling that love (and I am not even saying sex) is considered worse (in rating anyway) than actual violence... So, do you want to cut someone's throat? No problem! But if you want to hug your LI, take his hand or say something sweet (instead of quite frequent really awkward attempts to flirt)... well, you just have to hope that in the next game this will be better. I don't know, but I see very little if any progress at all in this... OK, we got rid of ridiculous underwear... 

 

Relationships should go more to depth. Now in DA:I it seems like I am everyone's friend and I know so little of them. I enjoy talking with them and there should be more conversations. And far more dialogs with LI. Some courting from both sides (Why I always have to make the first step?), maybe some uncertainty at the beggining. Anything which could prevent me from impression that LI is of course interested and nothing but waiting for me all his life...

And of course there should be more interactions, dialogs and even romances between companions as well (I almost regret I always romance Garrus, Tali is so... drunk again ).

[DSiKn355]

Romances are definitely spice of BioWare games. Building relationships and knowing better our companions are the main reasons why I love them so much. But I have to agree with DSiKn355 and CathyMe. 

 

These games are for adults and I really don't understand why romances have so little space. Is it an issue in USA or what? I have a feeling that love (and I am not even saying sex) is considered worse (in rating anyway) than actual violence... So, do you want to cut someone's throat? No problem! But if you want to hug your LI, take his hand or say something sweet (instead of quite frequent really awkward attempts to flirt)... well, you just have to hope that in the next game this will be better. I don't know, but I see very little if any progress at all in this... OK, we got rid of ridiculous underwear... 

 

Relationships should go more to depth. Now in DA:I it seems like I am everyone's friend and I know so little of them. I enjoy talking with them and there should be more conversations. And far more dialogs with LI. Some courting from both sides (Why I always have to make the first step?), maybe some uncertainty at the beggining. Anything which could prevent me from impression that LI is of course interested and nothing but waiting for me all his life...

And of course there should be more interactions, dialogs and even romances between companions as well (I almost regret I always romance Garrus, Tali is so... drunk again ).

 

"It's an induction port" lol.

 

But yeah DA:I was just lacking depth in general for every character.

 

I mean after playing it what can you tell me about your inquisitor? The main character lol.

And everyone else is even worse.

 

You never really get indepth discussions in DA:I so it feels like the characters aren't really thought out so much.

 

And yeah with romances it's the maintenance and reward aspects that are most important.

 

The building is the players desire to get whoever the love interest is but the options during maintaining keeps the romance alive and then the reward for it i.e engagement talk, confession of deeper feelings, marriage, children etc is the actual reward and "icing on the cake" if you will regarding that romance.

 

Otherwise it's "I got it but made nothing of it"

 

Maybe having a dating system would be good.

 

Each location has a dating hotspot to which you can take your Love interest and certain spots work best for certain LI's.

But these places are only available once a relationship is established.

 

And yeah your possible LI can make a move on you if they are an assertive time or curious type that want to know where they stand or how you feel towards them.

 

Just give us more BioWare as romance has become a key part of BioWare games.

 

Having the option to have children would be a step up from skyrim's child adoption   *nudge nudge wink wink*

[Ilwerin]

Having children would be a problem when you play as a female actually But no problem with adopting some Krogan babies

But I am really interested in their contraception method... with Iron Bull for example, while they are so... active (not my concern, I need more so I am romancing Solas or Cullen ).

[BansheeOwnage]

Look, I love having romances in the games (and I don't even like any of the options!), but it doesn't need to be a dating simulator. They can definitely improve aspects though. Main one on my list is being able to show how much you care about people, and not just romances.

[Steelcan]

I stand by my belief that the romances are more trouble than they are worth.

 

They quickly devolve characters into "can I bump uglies with them or not?" and end up with the Josephine/Cassandra issues that have plagued this forum since they were both announced as LI's.

[DSiKn355]

Having children would be a problem when you play as a female actually But no problem with adopting some Krogan babies

But I am really interested in their contraception method... with Iron Bull for example, while they are so... active (not my concern, I need more so I am romancing Solas or Cullen ).

LMAO

 

IB: "It appears they don't have them in my size... No Matter even if they did I am too manly to be stopped by this simple material"

 

ROFLPMSL

 

it does take 9 months for a child to be born (ideally) so you could make the decision complete the main quests and then be rewarded with a ending with your new family.

 

Look, I love having romances in the games (and I don't even like any of the options!), but it doesn't need to be a dating simulator. They can definitely improve aspects though. Main one on my list is being able to show how much you care about people, and not just romances.

 

not asking for a dating sim just more meaningful romances that matter.

 

So you have maintenance options and a end game reward for it.

 

Especially when the game is a solo game like DA series games are. (warden in DA:O but not in any other DA game unlike the ME series)

 

And having a meaningful relationship can help work as a distraction if the story is written poorly lol.

It's just another aspect to be immersed with really but it has to be detailed to work just like the open world aspect of DA:I.

 

Open world of DA:I didnt work well because the details were weak and mostly pointless/meaningless quest that didnt matter to the story.

So i am saying to do this same mistake with the romance by making it underplayed or meaningless with just no point to it.

 

Make it stand for something with its own rewards and the player will feel rewarded for it thus a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment will be born from it that will please players. Which will be another aspect of the game players will feel happy about ...

 

And dont forget...

 

These are OPTIONS so you don't have to go in depth with your relationship but as a result it will only end up as a casual fling as opposed to a serious relationship.

And if you do things that your LI don't agree with it could end up a on and off relationship or even a break up lol.

 

It may seem a lot of focus on relationships but i would prefer an extra 30hrs on companions and LI's rather than 30hrs of fetch quests.

I prefer to connect than just mindlessly play

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And of course there should be more interactions, dialogs and even romances between companions as well (I almost regret I always romance Garrus, Tali is so... drunk again ).

No.

[In Exile]

I stand by my belief that the romances are more trouble than they are worth.

They quickly devolve characters into "can I bump uglies with them or not?" and end up with the Josephine/Cassandra issues that have plagued this forum since they were both announced as LI's.

"Romance" in the sense of romantic content I think is great. It adds to the story. TW2 with Triss is a good example. My favourite examples though are both Obsidian titles - KoTOR2 and POE. Both use (the potential for) a romance in interesting ways with Atris and [redacted for POE spoilers, see below].

Spoiler

With Atris you can have an interesting subplot about her being in love with the Exile as a driving force behind her growing madness. And with POE, well, it's all about those past memories with a certain heretic. That's romance done right IMO

[Steelcan]

"Romance" in the sense of romantic content I think is great. It adds to the story. TW2 with Triss is a good example. My favourite examples though are both Obsidian titles - KoTOR2 and POE. Both use (the potential for) a romance in interesting ways with Atris and [redacted for POE spoilers, see below].

Spoiler

With Atris you can have an interesting subplot about her being in love with the Exile as a driving force behind her growing madness. And with POE, well, it's all about those past memories with a certain heretic. That's romance done right IMO

and I have no issue with using romantic content to further characters, established relationships, and so on.  But when, as in my opinion BioWare has done, they become romances for romances sake, we start running into issues

[Uirebhiril]

 

And of course there should be more interactions, dialogs and even romances between companions as well (I almost regret I always romance Garrus, Tali is so... drunk again ).

 

That I agree with. It would be awesome to travel with characters that are already together as a couple, or married, or who otherwise fall in love while they are part of our team. Why shouldn't they? It's strange that everyone would remain chaste and disinterested for everyone but the PC. Gender/race preferences notwithstanding. 

 

Even a case of someone being part of the group who has a wife and kids at home would work. Let us see they had a life outside of our little corner of the world.

[Grieving Natashina]

and I have no issue with using romantic content to further characters, established relationships, and so on.  But when, as in my opinion BioWare has done, they become romances for romances sake, we start running into issues

I liked this because I agree that romances for romances sake are a bad approach and that it shouldn't be done.  That being said, I disagree with your opinion here.  I don't think BioWare is doing romances for romances sake, but that's just my opinion.  I respect where you're coming from though.  

 

For the record, if the new IP that David Gaider is working on doesn't open the "Pandora's Box" of romance content (his words, not mine,) I wouldn't care.  I know the friendships are going to be pretty solid and the rest of the story is going to be compelling enough to get me to check it out.  I would prefer that they not take it out of any future Dragon Age or Mass Effect games though.  I've enjoyed those romance arcs quite a bit, and I'd be pretty sad to see them go away.  Still, if they decided to save themselves the stress and not go that route for any new IPs that they are creating, I would be fine with it.  

[AresKeith]

I liked this because I agree that romances for romances sake are a bad approach and that it shouldn't be done.  That being said, I disagree with your opinion here.  I don't think BioWare is doing romances for romances sake, but that's just my opinion.  I respect where you're coming from though.  

 

I'd say that's more of Bioware's fanbase (mainly BSN and Tumblr) overplaying romances more than they are

[BansheeOwnage]

That I agree with. It would be awesome to travel with characters that are already together as a couple, or married, or who otherwise fall in love while they are part of our team. Why shouldn't they? It's strange that everyone would remain chaste and disinterested for everyone but the PC. Gender/race preferences notwithstanding. 

 

Even a case of someone being part of the group who has a wife and kids at home would work. Let us see they had a life outside of our little corner of the world.

I agree. I'm not sure why companions shouldn't go off and do their own thing. The player should not be in charge of their every move, and they shouldn't exist in a vacuum. Right now, for the most part, they exist when the player wants to talk to them and for the player talking to them.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'd say that's more of Bioware's fanbase (mainly BSN and Tumblr) overplaying romances more than they are

Agreed.  This happens far too often.  Some of the stuff from pre-launch comes to mind.  

 

DG, at the very end of an interview about Dorian, where he talks about the character (not Dorian's sexuality) and why he wrote him at length: "He's the first fully gay companion."

 

Cue the torches and pitchforks.

 

Enraged Group A: "BioWare is spending too much ad time talking about romances all because Dorian is gay!  Why are gay people so special?"

Enraged Group B: "Fully gay?  What kind of wording is that?  I'm gay, but what does fully gay mean? Why did they go there!"

Me: "By the love of Odin, nobody reads outside of a TL;DR anymore." 

[DSiKn355]

Agreed.  This happens far too often.  Some of the stuff from pre-launch comes to mind.  

 

DG, at the very end of an interview about Dorian, where he talks about the character (not Dorian's sexuality) and why he wrote him at length: "He's the first fully gay companion."

 

Cue the torches and pitchforks.

 

Enraged Group A: "BioWare is spending too much ad time talking about romances all because Dorian is gay!  Why are gay people so special?"

Enraged Group B: "Fully gay?  What kind of wording is that?  I'm gay, but what does fully gay mean? Why did they go there!"

Me: "By the love of Odin, nobody reads outside of a TL;DR anymore." 

 

Well I am "fully" straight and "fully" convinced the romance needs improving in all aspects lol

[Uirebhiril]

Well I am "fully" straight and "fully" convinced the romance needs improving in all aspects lol

 

I think they have been improving. Maybe the average gamer guy hasn't noticed the leaps and bounds that have been made, but the rest of us surely do. We now all have at least two options for a romance, representation of different sexualities, and characters with romance arcs that plays out differently, giving both replayability and the option for people to select a character that they can be comfortable with. There's plenty of credit to offer for what they have given us so far. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, but they only get once every 3-4 years to show us any changes made from previous feedback. As long as the feedback makes a good point, I expect they'll take it into consideration.

[Grieving Natashina]

I think they have been improving. Maybe the average gamer guy hasn't noticed the leaps and bounds that have been made, but the rest of us surely do. We now all have at least two options for a romance, representation of different sexualities, and characters with romance arcs that plays out differently, giving both replayability and the option for people to select a character that they can be comfortable with. There's plenty of credit to offer for what they have given us so far. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, but they only get once every 3-4 years to show us any changes made from previous feedback. As long as the feedback makes a good point, I expect they'll take it into consideration.

I like you.  You understand.  

 

Spoiler

[DSiKn355]

I think they have been improving. Maybe the average gamer guy hasn't noticed the leaps and bounds that have been made, but the rest of us surely do. We now all have at least two options for a romance, representation of different sexualities, and characters with romance arcs that plays out differently, giving both replayability and the option for people to select a character that they can be comfortable with. There's plenty of credit to offer for what they have given us so far. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, but they only get once every 3-4 years to show us any changes made from previous feedback. As long as the feedback makes a good point, I expect they'll take it into consideration.

 

So I am average? And I thought I was special   

 

Leaps and bounds have not been made.

 

DA:O had gay and bi romance choices too right?

 

But DA:O had more options to maintain your romance and even offered an end game reward for your romance.

 

So.... i would say they have regressed not progressed.

 

Announcing a "fully Gay" character isn't really a bench mark or noteworthy as Anders in DA2 was "fully gay"  lol.

 

So that's 3-4 years of planning and still getting things wrong or lacking substance which they previously had?

 

Again that aint progress.

 

ME2 after finishing the main quests you could still interact with your LI.

DA:I your LI has reverted back to their default state or disappeared once your main quest is complete.

 

Characters always romance differently in every game so again this isn't progress it's just a standard thing.

 

But I am saying up the quality.

 

Give more options,

make decisions effect things more,

don't make romance blatant (heart sign)

Make LI's come to you (like DA2) and not you have to do everything

More options with maintaining the relationship so to make it matter if you want to make the relationship progress more.

depending on choices and decisions relationships can be:

On and off

fail

casual fling

steady

heavy (leading to engagement, marriage or kids etc)

 

Make the romance option matter and mean something other than being just a mini moment of fun with no real impact.

 

That is what I would call improvements.

[midnight tea]

Give more options,

make decisions effect things more,

don't make romance blatant (heart sign)

Make LI's come to you (like DA2) and not you have to do everything

More options with maintaining the relationship so to make it matter if you want to make the relationship progress more.

depending on choices and decisions relationships can be:

On and off

fail

casual fling

steady

heavy (leading to engagement, marriage or kids etc)

 

Is that a list of improvements for DA 4 or Sims 5???

[Grieving Natashina]

Here's your culprit why there isn't more of those details:  Word budget.  Every game has an X allotted amount of dialogue that they can have.  This is a total amount that it's allowed for the entire game.  BioWare doesn't go, "Oh, we have X budget for the story and Y budget for the romances."  It's all considered a part of the dialogue.  This stuff is expensive, especially when you account for animation, pacing, writing, ect.  In fact, last year at Gaymer X David Gaider (along Patrick and Karen Weekes) addressed a person that asked about polyarmorous relationships for DA.  They said that they had tried to do that, but it just killed their word budget.  They weren't opposed to the idea at all, but there was just too much dialogue and coding and animation in order to pull that off well.  If you're curious, it's up on youtube.  The whole panel is worth the watch.

 

This is why the DA team was careful to state that all the LIs had equal dialogue and content time.  Before a DLC is suggested, I need to point out that as much as the fans enjoy the romances, not all players are that invested in having them.  I'd say that from reviews not based out of the BSN or tumblr or the like emphasize the rest of the story and gameplay.  It not only makes sense financially, but also creatively to focus more on a larger story versus just the romance.  I would love for them to make some room for a little expanded romance content in a DLC, and I really hope they will.  I'd like to actually see Iron Bull dance, or go back to that lake with Cullen.  I don't want the DA team to make that a focus of a DLC though, because for a lot of people the romances aren't the majority of what a good BioWare game is all about.  

[DSiKn355]

Is that a list of improvements for DA 4 or Sims 5???

 

well it beats 100+ hrs of fetch quests right?

[DSiKn355]

Here's your culprit why there isn't more of those details:  Word budget.  Every game has an X allotted amount of dialogue that they can have.  This is a total amount that it's allowed for the entire game.  BioWare doesn't go, "Oh, we have X budget for the story and Y budget for the romances."  It's all considered a part of the dialogue This stuff is expensive, especially when you account for animation, pacing, writing, ect.  In fact, last year at Gaymer X David Gaider (along Patrick and Karen Weekes) addressed a person that asked about polyarmorous relationships for DA.  They said that they had tried to do that, but it just killed their word budget.  They weren't opposed to the idea at all, but there was just too much dialogue and coding and animation in order to pull that off well.  If you're curious, it's up on youtube.  The whole panel is worth the watch.

 

This is why the DA team was careful to state that all the LIs had equal dialogue and content time.  Before a DLC is suggested, I need to point out that as much as the fans enjoy the romances, not all players are that invested in having them.  I'd say that from reviews not based out of the BSN or tumblr or the like emphasize the rest of the story and gameplay.  It not only makes sense financially, but also creatively to focus more on a larger story versus just the romance.  I would love for them to make some room for a little expanded romance content in a DLC, and I really hope they will.  I'd like to actually see Iron Bull dance, or go back to that lake with Cullen.  I don't want the DA team to make that a focus of a DLC though, because for a lot of people the romances aren't the majority of what a good BioWare game is all about.  

 

 

So like DA:I if the graphics are (supposedly) better then the content and dialogue suffers greatly due to this lack of budget?

 

So it would be best never to purchase a BioWare game again then lol

 

And why is it when people read what I put they always miss the word "options" meaning optional, not a must, do if you want. lol

[midnight tea]

well it beats 100+ hrs of fetch quests right?

 

I'm starting to think that some people have no idea what "fetch quest" is...

[Grieving Natashina]

So like DA:I if the graphics are (supposedly) better then the content and dialogue suffers greatly due to this lack of budget?

 

So it would be best never to purchase a BioWare game again then lol

No.  This isn't something new.  In fact, this has been going on for years in games, long before voice acting or anything past Apple II/E or NES graphics.  Cost is relative, and while the price for making a AAA game has risen a bunch, it's always been comparatively expensive.  BioWare isn't the first or the last company with a word budget. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I would love for them to make some room for a little expanded romance content in a DLC, and I really hope they will.  I'd like to actually see Iron Bull dance, or go back to that lake with Cullen.  I don't want the DA team to make that a focus of a DLC though, because for a lot of people the romances aren't the majority of what a good BioWare game is all about.  

I still want a Wintersend DLC, Citadel style. That must have had a huge word budget for a DLC, but I have a theory that it was 2 DLCs to begin with, so that might explain it. Anyway, maybe have a goofy plot about bad things happening on Wintersend, maybe a more serious one. I don't mind. I just want to have lots of content with the inner circle. Obviously, that would include romances. I feel like we didn't have enough time to get to know these companions, and especially the advisors, so this would be my ideal DLC. I keep wanting to make a thread about it, but writing all that text is so daunting