I will wait and see what happens but so long as they say the main thing is exploration and there is 100 planets I cant help but think the same issues with DA:I will arise again.
I really agree with you. Even with all the running around I've done - and I do have completionist PTs - I have heard such a small part of the banter that even calling it 1 hour is insanely generous.
And I get like one banter in every 3 hours.. so I'm missing lot of content ^^;
I thought I have banter issue as well... It took me whole one and a half PT (some 200-250? hours) when I realised that the problem is in my playing style - quicksafe, quickload (for I cannot play in "peace" in a row during night - small children 
and I wanted to have an overall view of real time played). And everything "saved" before load doesn't count. The banter countdown starts anew. Conversations and browsing inventory and such don't count as well. Too bad :/
So I have spent my final hours (literally) running through various environments, killing innocent creatures to kill time when I was waiting for specific banter. And it came - every 15 min +- 3 min. Only Western Approach is bugged.
Poor quest design would be a throwback to ME1. But I think we'll see better design. I'd wager DAI had such poor quests because of poor resource allocation resulting from all the redoes they had and all the content thrown away. So basically exactly like ME1.
I would prefer a 100hr game full of solid content rather than a 200hr game that feels empty with the idea it's focused on exploration.
Traveling for 20-30mins with nothing going on and nothing to do gets boring real quick.
Sure the scenery can look nice but that doesn't keep a player entertained.
And hopefully as they get to know the frostbite system better they will improve their animations and maybe pay a female model so the women don't move like men or gorillas lol.
But on topic:
I hope the romance is meaningful in the next DA (or ME title) and they could make it even relate to the storyline in some way like Morrigan and the Warden.
I thought I have banter issue as well... It took me whole one and a half PT (some 200-250? hours) when I realised that the problem is in my playing style - quicksafe, quickload (for I cannot play in "peace" in a row during night - small children
So I have spent my final hours (literally) running through various environments, killing innocent creatures to kill time when I was waiting for specific banter. And it came - every 15 min +- 3 min. Only Western Approach is bugged.
If their system is borked with frequent saving, then I'll just never enjoy banter. I'm not about to risk losing an hour of gameplay because of shoddy design.
I would prefer a 100hr game full of solid content rather than a 200hr game that feels empty with the idea it's focused on exploration.
Traveling for 20-30mins with nothing going on and nothing to do gets boring real quick.
Sure the scenery can look nice but that doesn't keep a player entertained.
And hopefully as they get to know the frostbite system better they will improve their animations and maybe pay a female model so the women don't move like men or gorillas lol.
I agree with you (well, maybe except for the fact that I don't think a game can have 100 hours of meaningful content without boring filler); all I mean is that ME1 was the game that started with the pointless fetch quests with 0 cutscenes and dialogue.
I'm gonna barge back in a bit and say, that while i like the romance in BW games, it is the spice to the main dish that is story and characters. It should make sense story-wise, I don't want the game to become a dating sim, nor do I want it to be detrimental to the platonic friendships (as in "a relationship doesn't have meaning until they bang"). That being said, I think that all this people making threads whining about uneven romance options, or why isn't character X straight/gay/lesbian/bi or whatever, will eventually make BW give up on the romance altogether, unfortunately.
Could not agree more with the bolded part. I don't like how they treat sex like the most important part of the romances (or at least put too much emphasis on it), even to the point of getting achievements only after that happens. I also feel sad because I feel like I didn't get to the level of friendship I wanted to with Cassandra, Dorian, Cole, Varric and Cullen, all to varying degrees. I feel like Bioware doesn't let you forge strong, loving, platonic friendships enough, at least in DA:I. I maintain my position that hugs would have helped 
And hopefully as they get to know the frostbite system better they will improve their animations and maybe pay a female model so the women don't move like men or gorillas lol.
I vehemently disagree with you 
I agree with you (well, maybe except for the fact that I don't think a game can have 100 hours of meaningful content without boring filler); all I mean is that ME1 was the game that started with the pointless fetch quests with 0 cutscenes and dialogue.
All games have some filler which is ok but when it becomes 90% filler and 10% story we have a problem lol
I vehemently disagree with you
What part do you disagree with? Animation or models?
See the magic man at 1:33? lol
What part do you disagree with? Animation or models?
I disagree that males and females walk inherently differently, among other things, and that they need to have separate animations. If you'd like me to go into detail, I have a wall-of-text prepared on the subject 
I disagree that males and females walk inherently differently, among other things, and that they need to have separate animations. If you'd like me to go into detail, I have a wall-of-text prepared on the subject
Bring it!
Wait a sec are you saying male and females DON'T need to have different animations?
Bring it!
Wait a sec are you saying male and females DON'T need to have different animations?
Yes, that's actually exactly what I'm saying. Different animations for different sized people are necessary, but in DA:I, men and women are the same height. I'll get into that below.
I maintain my unpopular opinion that males and females don't sit or walk inherently differently. There are some valid complaints here, I just don't think these are one of them. And don't get me wrong, I'm annoyed that they make everything default to male, then try (or sometimes not even try at all) to adapt those things for female use, ex Formal Attire. It's clearly made for a male human Inquisitor and "stretched" for females and other races.
I agree it's a problem with skirts, obviously
I didn't mean to come off badly, sorry. I just haven't responded to this discussion yet and all my thoughts piled out
I still disagree that there is anything wrong or masculine about sitting without your legs locked together. It only matters if you're not wearing pants. Do you guys never relax and sit comfortably? I'm really not trying to pick a fight, just asking.
Agree on the first point; it's really annoying that they design outfits for males first, instead of from a neutral standpoint. Have to vehemently disagree on the second point though. Of course, everyone has their own definition of "masculinity" and "femininity", but I don't identify as butch and sit like the Inquisitor sometimes. I mean, I don't spread my legs out a ridiculous amount or anything, but still. I don't think it's "sitting like a man" either.
Perhaps we need a general option for animations either in the CC, or based on dialogue, kind of like how the Inquisitor sits differently depending on your first line in judgements. 3 options should suffice. At the very least, I'd just like the option for running. It's clear you are annoyed at being forced into a certain style of animations just as much as I'm annoyed at being forced into another style. Sort of like if we'd been forced into a dress during the ball. Some people wanted that, I'd have hated it. Options are always good. I just think if they aren't going to have options for whatever reason, they should be neutral, and the Formal Attire did a satisfactory job of that. I also agree the difference is jarring between adventuring and cutscenes, for 2 reasons. One is the style is hugely different, obviously. The other is that even though it's very extreme, the super-dainty catwalk is at least fluid and contrasts with the clunky animations of cutscene movement.
The bold what I'm trying to say. If they don't have options (I'm all for more options as character customization gets deeper) they should strive to have a solid neutral tone. If you want exaggerated hip-sway, choose it - for males or females. I'm just annoyed when I can't choose and it's not at all neutral. And I definitely agree that Bioware, unfortunately, tends to choose extremes and ends up with very exaggerated results. Also, your last line, is exactly what I mean. Some women sway their hips like that (which seriously must require conscious effort) but not most.
TL;DR: Bioware, improve your animations in general for the next game please. It was fine in 2007, but is starting to fall a bit behind.
I disagree completely, for reasons stated previously. I'd rather they have neutral animations and allocate resources to something more important, or if they're not going to do that, have 3 options for styles of animation.
This is what I was getting at. Those models are trying to walk like that. It's not a normal walk.
Yes, that's actually exactly what I'm saying. Different animations for different sized people are necessary, but in DA:I, men and women are the same height. I'll get into that below.
I think you are confused with what you are trying to say.
And I quote...
"But I agree, whatever they do with hip-swaying etc, bad posture is just bad."
A male cannot hold a woman's posture.
Even the most camp male as our bone structures are different.
THAT is what makes us look different when performing the same actions.
If you look at Leilana at the ball in the formal wear you can see her head is too small for her body because her body is mapped to a man's frame.
Just like the video above the women to try can compensate with the body frame difference their shoulders are pushed forwards to try make their frame look smaller.
Hence they walk funny and unnaturally lol.
Warrior women should have more "manly" movements (for those that want to call it that) but general women don't move like that especially in that medieval type setting as they are "Ladies" thus are supposed to move with "Grace." These things matter.
Having legs open when wearing trousers is not a problem and acting overly feminine with the "sexy walk" with strong hip swaying is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about the basic issue of the male and female's frame is different even if the same height which then effects movement differently but cannot be captured in animation if only a male model is used.
But yes all animation needs improving which was my first point lol.
While there are some differences in how men and women move, there's a lot of crossover. A good set of gender neutral animations would work fine for both sexes. Instead we've got exaggerated gender specific animations that don't even work for many people of the relevant gender (the male animation looks bad on many men [not all of us are overloaded with gratuitous amounts of testosterone], likewise the female animations on many women [I'm yet to meet someone who walks around normally with their hips moving like that...]), and to top it off, women sometimes get the male animation.
So yeah, if we can't have gender specific animations that aren't a: not exaggerated and b: applied inconsistently, I'd much prefer just having a single set of gender neutral ones. Ideally, we'd get better gender specific ones and a neutral one to chose if we so desired (hey, one can dream....).
I think you are confused with what you are trying to say.
And I quote...
"But I agree, whatever they do with hip-swaying etc, bad posture is just bad."
A male cannot hold a woman's posture.
Even the most camp male as our bone structures are different.
THAT is what makes us look different when performing the same actions.
If you look at Leilana at the ball in the formal wear you can see her head is too small for her body because her body is mapped to a man's frame.
Just like the video above the women to try can compensate with the body frame difference their shoulders are pushed forwards to try make their frame look smaller.
Hence they walk funny and unnaturally lol.
Warrior women should have more "manly" movements (for those that want to call it that) but general women don't move like that especially in that medieval type setting as they are "Ladies" thus are supposed to move with "Grace." These things matter.
Having legs open when wearing trousers is not a problem and acting overly feminine with the "sexy walk" with strong hip swaying is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about the basic issue of the male and female's frame is different even if the same height which then effects movement differently but cannot be captured in animation if only a male model is used.
But yes all animation needs improving which was my first point lol.
As far as I know, Leliana has the same body as almost every other human female, so if her head looks small, so must Cassandra's, Josephine's, Vivienne's, and the Inquisitor's. But they don't, so I'm thinking it's just a matter of perspective. Her outfit is not mapped over a man's frame, in fact it's the opposite: The clothing made for a male is mapped to a female frame, making it look a bit odd, as I talked about previously.
Only women in high positions (or trying to please the ones in high positions) are going to walk "gracefully" as Morrigan and Vivienne do. And even then, we only know this is important in Orlais. I honestly doubt it applies in Ferelden or Tevinter, so don't assume what the cultural standards of Thedas are. I would actually say Morrigan walking that way proves my point. She doesn't naturally walk that way; she was raised in the wilds! She learns to move that way, for a purpose. It's not natural. If there were options for animation style, and you wanted to move like that, say to RP a noble with a strict upbringing, that's cool, but it's still instilled, not inherent.
The only reason I mentioned posture was because that quote was originally posted in a thread relating to posture. Why can't a man have the same posture as a woman? Posture =/= body shape. If a man can slouch or sit up straight, so can a woman, etc. PhroXenGold, above, talked about crossover between how men and women move, and that applies to bone-structure as well. There is a lot of crossover between bone-structures in males and females and therefore even more crossover in movement.
I think what me and them are trying to say is that there is so much crossover, so little true and noticeable variation, that having one (good) set of animations for both genders would be ideal given that the thought of having a choice between 3 styles of animation is somewhat idealistic.
While there are some differences in how men and women move, there's a lot of crossover. A good set of gender neutral animations would work fine for both sexes. Instead we've got exaggerated gender specific animations that don't even work for many people of the relevant gender (the male animation looks bad on many men [not all of us are overloaded with gratuitous amounts of testosterone], likewise the female animations on many women [I'm yet to meet someone who walks around normally with their hips moving like that...]), and to top it off, women sometimes get the male animation.
So yeah, if we can't have gender specific animations that aren't a: not exaggerated and b: applied inconsistently, I'd much prefer just having a single set of gender neutral ones. Ideally, we'd get better gender specific ones and a neutral one to chose if we so desired (hey, one can dream....).
Agreed. Bioware has a habit of having extreme solutions that don't really solve anything. In this case, animations.
As far as I know, Leliana has the same body as almost every other human female, so if her head looks small, so must Cassandra's, Josephine's, Vivienne's, and the Inquisitor's. But they don't, so I'm thinking it's just a matter of perspective. Her outfit is not mapped over a man's frame, in fact it's the opposite: The clothing made for a male is mapped to a female frame, making it look a bit odd, as I talked about previously.
Only women in high positions (or trying to please the ones in high positions) are going to walk "gracefully" as Morrigan and Vivienne do. And even then, we only know this is important in Orlais. I honestly doubt it applies in Ferelden or Tevinter, so don't assume what the cultural standards of Thedas are. I would actually say Morrigan walking that way proves my point. She doesn't naturally walk that way; she was raised in the wilds! She learns to move that way, for a purpose. It's not natural. If there were options for animation style, and you wanted to move like that, say to RP a noble with a strict upbringing, that's cool, but it's still instilled, not inherent.
The only reason I mentioned posture was because that quote was originally posted in a thread relating to posture. Why can't a man have the same posture as a woman? Posture =/= body shape. If a man can slouch or sit up straight, so can a woman, etc. PhroXenGold, above, talked about crossover between how men and women move, and that applies to bone-structure as well. There is a lot of crossover between bone-structures in males and females and therefore even more crossover in movement.
I think what me and them are trying to say is that there is so much crossover, so little true and noticeable variation, that having one (good) set of animations for both genders would be ideal given that the thought of having a choice between 3 styles of animation is somewhat idealistic.
But you will always need gender specific animation as not all females will act in that neutral way.
And are you then speculating how all of Thedas acts too?
And it's not just high class with with grace as that era even the common folk would have the women acting more feminine as parents would tailor them to be a wife.
Those kind of women should be there.
Leilana is a SPY she should BLEND IN. If in orlais women act feminine then Leilana should be doing the same just like Morrigan was trying to do.
But you are ignoring the bad animations still with the hunched shoulders.
Bad animation is bad animation.
Neutral animations will only work for certain situations.
Some situations a woman may want to act feminine possibly because she is a LI trying to get your attention perhaps? Trying to charm you perhaps? Maybe a thief trying to distract you perhaps.
There are many instances which would require a gender specific animation.
Not everything can be covered with neutral animations.
But I can see you feel strongly about this lol
P.S males and females of the same race are NOT the same height
If they made neutral animations you'd get a set of people wanting very "feminine" or girly animations, since people expect women to have a sway to their hips. They add those, people either think it's too absurd and overstated or still think it's too "manly." They've been through that with several games, and no matter which why they go they can't seem to win.
If they made neutral animations you'd get a set of people wanting very "feminine" or girly animations, since people expect women to have a sway to their hips. They add those, people either think it's too absurd and overstated or still think it's too "manly." They've been through that with several games, and no matter which why they go they can't seem to win.
I guess animations come down to preference so no point debating it as no-one can actually win lol
Just general improvements would be nice. Increased frames to make it more smooth also
P.S males and females of the same race are NOT the same height
I might get to the rest later (this stuff drains me so much) but yes, they are. Go stand next to Cullen or Alistair or Cassandra (but make sure no one is standing on a plank of wood, they like to). All humans are the same height in DA:I.
Well no, they are not - sometimes they're also a bit more sunken into the floor or stuff. They're also visibly not of equal size in cutscenes.
Well no, they are not - sometimes they're also a bit more sunken into the floor or stuff. They're also visibly not of equal size in cutscenes.
Great, now we have people claiming they are, and they're not. I should have taken screenshots. Well, I'll be back in a bit then! *sigh*
If they made neutral animations you'd get a set of people wanting very "feminine" or girly animations, since people expect women to have a sway to their hips. They add those, people either think it's too absurd and overstated or still think it's too "manly." They've been through that with several games, and no matter which why they go they can't seem to win.
I don't agree. BioWare has always used clumsy, exaggerated animations. Their men move like apes with skeletal defects and their women move like sidewinders. I think if they tried actually neutral animations (or just understated gender different animations) then most people wouldn't find something to object to.
Doubtless someone would complain, but it is the internet. Some complaint doesn't equate to a loss.
Warrior women should have more "manly" movements
*sigh*
I might get to the rest later (this stuff drains me so much) but yes, they are. Go stand next to Cullen or Alistair or Cassandra (but make sure no one is standing on a plank of wood, they like to). All humans are the same height in DA:I.
^Here
^And here from 4:50 it is clearly noticeable
And during cutscenes is when animation matters most right as our little debate is about animation of the male/female form right? 
*sigh*
Ever hear the expression "You punch like a girl" or "you hit like a pansy"?
That's because the attack is not done in a "manly" form and is weak.
So if a woman is trained to hit efficiently then her movement of attack should be considered "manly"
But that is only a warrior type or double knife rogue as they have direct attacks.
I hope you understand lol
I don't agree. BioWare has always used clumsy, exaggerated animations. Their men move like apes with skeletal defects and their women move like sidewinders. I think if they tried actually neutral animations (or just understated gender different animations) then most people wouldn't find something to object to.
Doubtless someone would complain, but it is the internet. Some complaint doesn't equate to a loss.
ME1 had neutral animations if I recall correctly, and that was great in my opinion. Apparently though, people didn't like that so they exaggerated everything after. Too bad. Also, I couldn't agree more with your sigh.
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