1591 réponses à ce sujet

[SardaukarElite]

Yes and the setting of DA has it more "natural" for a man to be a fighter as opposed to a woman as that is the type of medieval fantasy setting it has.

 

You're missing the point. That more men in our world or Thedas fight doesn't make fighting manly it just means that more men fight than women do.

 

In our world most fighter pilots are male, and yet the best female fighter pilot in history was a 5' tall, thin, woman who dyed her hair blonde, kept it in curls, adjusted her uniform to make it more feminine and loved flowers. She fought in a male dominated role without becoming typically manly.

 

I really don't care about calling you sexist or anything else you've been going on about, I'm just sick of this inane attitude that becoming a fighter requires one to become more masculine.

[BansheeOwnage]

Right hold the phone!!!!

 

 

Is a woman naturally as strong as a man?

Does a woman's body naturally have as much muscle mass as a man?

 

Just think about that. And remember what you said about the expression "That depends how you interpret it"

 

And just for experimental sake...

 

Can you think of a sexist expression against a man? just out of curiosity because I find it hard to think of one personally lol.

I'm not a biologist and if someone is, please correct me, but my interpretation of muscle-mass was as follows:

 

Testosterone helps build muscle. Estrogen helps build fat. Because of this, women generally need to put more effort into achieving equal muscle mass to a man. However, men aren't born having gone to the gym. The man in this scenario would also have had to train, but it would be somewhat easier. I honestly don't know about total possible (or plausible) muscle mass and if testosterone increases the maximum, so I can't comment on that.

 

Anyway, yes, women are as strong as men, assuming neither of them work out and there likely wouldn't be a huge disparity even if they both did. But your whole point is moot because you're assuming strength is the only factor in being a good fighter, or even very important at all. I'm no sword fighter, but I was under the impression strength was of little meaning in that field.

 

Can I think of a sexist expression demeaning men? Yes. "Men are pigs."

[BansheeOwnage]

Really?

 

Remind me again whats the ratio of male fighters to female fighters?

 

How many female companions have there been compared to male companions?

 

Obviously the ratio must be even just like the number of companions lol

I never mentioned a ratio (even if it's pretty even). It's not important. You were talking about whether fighting was masculine. See Sardaukar's post.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This probably should get back on the topic of romances, everyone. 

[DSiKn355]

You're missing the point. That more men in our world or Thedas fight doesn't make fighting manly it just means that more men fight than women do.

 

In our world most fighter pilots are male, and yet the best female fighter pilot in history was a 5' tall, thin, woman who dyed her hair blonde, kept it in curls, adjusted her uniform to make it more feminine and loved flowers. She fought in a male dominated role without becoming typically manly.

 

I really don't care about calling you sexist or anything else you've been going on about, I'm just sick of this inane attitude that becoming a fighter requires one to become more masculine.

 

Riiiiight...

 

duly noted

 

I'm not a biologist and if someone is, please correct me, but my interpretation of muscle-mass was as follows:

 

Testosterone helps build muscle. Estrogen helps build fat. Because of this, women generally need to put more effort into achieving equal muscle mass to a man. However, men aren't born having gone to the gym. The man in this scenario would also have had to train, but it would be somewhat easier. I honestly don't know about total possible (or plausible) muscle mass and if testosterone increases the maximum, so I can't comment on that.

 

Anyway, yes, women are as strong as men, assuming neither of them work out and there likely wouldn't be a huge disparity even if they both did. But your whole point is moot because you're assuming strength is the only factor in being a good fighter, or even very important at all. I'm no sword fighter, but I was under the impression strength was of little meaning in that field.

 

Can I think of a sexist expression demeaning men? Yes. "Men are pigs."

 

No sorry you are wrong.

 

A man's frame is built different, not only has a man got more muscle than a girl he also has a more dense bone structure.

 

A natural untrained punch of a man will hit harder and heavier than that of a natural untrained girl.

 

So again it all depends how you interpret the expression. It's just that "girl" is in the expression that it becomes sexist but when it is "mouse" it's ok because it is just a reference to something naturally weaker.

 

"Men are pigs" lol

[BansheeOwnage]

I actually disagree with this, cause feminine and masculine are adjectives that include some other attributes so I don't see them as gender restricted, not all women are feminine or men masculine. Well, my take on those words at least. Mannish in other hand is just insult used when someone doesn't like that woman can be masculine (similar as "gay" used as insult about feminine men although it shouldn't be used that way).

I think we disagree because we're using different definitions for masculine and feminine. Everyone has different ones, after all. For the sake of my post, my definition was something like "The physical qualities of a man or a woman." Nothing to do with personality or actions, etc. In that case, I view any woman to appear feminine, physically, and sound feminine. Because they are a woman, those traits have to be feminine (or possibly androgynous if you want a more complicated discussion). Do you agree with that?

[DSiKn355]

I think we disagree because we're using different definitions for masculine and feminine. Everyone has different ones, after all. For the sake of my post, my definition was something like "The physical qualities of a man or a woman." Nothing to do with personality or actions, etc. In that case, I view any woman to appear feminine, physically, and sound feminine. Because they are a woman, those traits have to be feminine (or possibly androgynous if you want a more complicated discussion). Do you agree with that?

 

Does Bart Simpson sound feminine?

 

 

Or does Edna from "The Incredibles" sound masculine?

 

[BansheeOwnage]

Yeah, but it also evolved into this 600+ page conversation that was talking about women's representation in video games, comics and other "geek" media as well.  It was a damned good thread, it just petered out after release.  Oftentimes, the conversation about the use of language and focusing too heavily on "what's girly/manly" came up.  This went from "you fight like a girl," to (imho) ridiculous products like special pink and purple legos for girls and why putting too much gender into toys, comics and games was detrimental in several ways.  

 

I was happy the walk animation didn't have those pendulum hips like they did in DA2.  I've also posted my own thoughts about it, several times.  I'll say I agree your points and kinda leave it at that.      Anyway, a lot of the same arguments and counterpoints were in those debates as here.  The walk animation came up, but that ended up the focus of it's own thread.

That does sound like an interesting thread! I have to comment about the colours, just because it's so hilariously arbitrary. In the middle of this century, the masculine and feminine labels of pink and blue were reversed. Originally, pink was considered masculine due to being a shade of red, being related to blood, warriors, blah blah. Of course, all of that reasoning is beyond stupid too, but I thought it was funny how society just... I don't know, takes its own word for things having to be a certain way. I agree it's detrimental.

 

Thanks! Yeah, I'm kind of sick of the topic now too.

[Grieving Natashina]

That does sound like an interesting thread! I have to comment about the colours, just because it's so hilariously arbitrary. In the middle of this century, the masculine and feminine labels of pink and blue were reversed. Originally, pink was considered masculine due to being a shade of red, being related to blood, warriors, blah blah. Of course, all of that reasoning is beyond stupid too, but I thought it was funny how society just... I don't know, takes its own word for things having to be a certain way. I agree it's detrimental.

 

Thanks! Yeah, I'm kind of sick of the topic now too.

I was wrong, it hit page 373 before it petered out.  Here it is, if you want to read.  It's not locked, but since the thread topic was originally about ad-time pre-release for the lady Inquisitor, I wouldn't recommend bumping it.  Some of the people I started talking to in there are forum buddies of mine to this day.

 

http://forum.bioware...ady-inquisitor/

[Panda]

I think we disagree because we're using different definitions for masculine and feminine. Everyone has different ones, after all. For the sake of my post, my definition was something like "The physical qualities of a man or a woman." Nothing to do with personality or actions, etc. In that case, I view any woman to appear feminine, physically, and sound feminine. Because they are a woman, those traits have to be feminine (or possibly androgynous if you want a more complicated discussion). Do you agree with that?

 

No, I pretty much disagree with that definition, cause to me femininity and masculinity aren't gender restricted and I would call for example myself more masculine as woman than feminine. I guess the thought behind is same though, that it's okay for both genders to have attributes that stereotypically belong to other gender (like short hair, low or high voice, using make-up.. stuff like that).

[BansheeOwnage]

Does Bart Simpson sound feminine?

 

Or does Edna from "The Incredibles" sound masculine?

Interesting question. I'm going to say he sounds feminine because he's played by a woman, but also androgynous. Preteens have not been subjected to hormones, so their voices haven't shifted and all sound androgynous anyway.

[DSiKn355]

Interesting question. I'm going to say he sounds feminine because he's played by a woman, but also androgynous. Preteens have not been subjected to hormones, so their voices haven't shifted and all sound androgynous anyway.

 

lol ok and nothing about Edna? I provided videos lol

 

But on topic:

 

Make romances more meaningful if chosen or integral to a story if chosen like Warden x Morrigan could become important to the story.

[BansheeOwnage]

I was wrong, it hit page 373 before it petered out.  Here it is, if you want to read.  It's not locked, but since the thread topic was originally about ad-time pre-release for the lady Inquisitor, I wouldn't recommend bumping it.  Some of the people I started talking to in there are forum buddies of mine to this day.

 

http://forum.bioware...ady-inquisitor/

Thanks. Yeah, not going to bump it. I remember them saying they would feature the male and female inquisitors equally in promotional material for DA:I. (I mean, it took them til ME3 to do it at all!) And they did better, yeah, but it was nowhere near equal.

 

No, I pretty much disagree with that definition, cause to me femininity and masculinity aren't gender restricted and I would call for example myself more masculine as woman than feminine. I guess the thought behind is same though, that it's okay for both genders to have attributes that stereotypically belong to other gender (like short hair, low or high voice, using make-up.. stuff like that).

To be honest I try to do-away with those terms as much as I can. I agree with you 100% that the things that are associated with masculinity or femininity (like the ones you listed) are not and should not be gender-restricted. But if you think about it, you should develop new labels altogether (or scrap them) in that case, because if they're not gender-restricted, they shouldn't have a gender associated with their label to begin with.

 

Edit: Yeah, sorry, I'll head back on topic, although, this comment is fairly on-topic even if it's tangential.

[SardaukarElite]

I was wrong, it hit page 373 before it petered out.  Here it is, if you want to read.  It's not locked, but since the thread topic was originally about ad-time pre-release for the lady Inquisitor, I wouldn't recommend bumping it.  Some of the people I started talking to in there are forum buddies of mine to this day.

 

Cracking skulls and discussing fashion. Good times.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd like to have a romance that does the whole "no sex until marriage" mindset. DAI was the first game since KOTOR where in the romances premarital sex wasn't mandatory(not counting the chaste Sebastian). 

[Panda]

Thanks. Yeah, not going to bump it. I remember them saying they would feature the male and female inquisitors equally in promotional material for DA:I. (I mean, it took them til ME3 to do it at all!) And they did better, yeah, but it was nowhere near equal.

 

To be honest I try to do-away with those terms as much as I can. I agree with you 100% that the things that are associated with masculinity or femininity (like the ones you listed) are not and should not be gender-restricted. But if you think about it, you should develop new labels altogether (or scrap them) in that case, because if they're not gender-restricted, they shouldn't have a gender associated with their label to begin with.

 

Edit: Yeah, sorry, I'll head back on topic, although, this comment is fairly on-topic even if it's tangential.

 

Well that's true also, feminine and masculine are pretty gender associated. I guess that's why there is disparity on how people should define them too ^^

[Grieving Natashina]

Cracking skulls and discussing fashion. Good times.

Funny, you were one of the people I was thinking about.  

[DSiKn355]

 

 

To be honest I try to do-away with those terms as much as I can. I agree with you 100% that the things that are associated with masculinity or femininity (like the ones you listed) are not and should not be gender-restricted. But if you think about it, you should develop new labels altogether (or scrap them) in that case, because if they're not gender-restricted, they shouldn't have a gender associated with their label to begin with.

 

Edit: Yeah, sorry, I'll head back on topic, although, this comment is fairly on-topic even if it's tangential.

 

Yeah again that's society for you.

 

I guess political correctness is trying to change labels but it's kind of hard to change a way that has been running since before women got their right to vote.

 

There are plenty of stereotypical labels I would like to see gone (I am mixed Black/White and endure many daily lol) but such is life.

I don't expect the world view to change over night and I accept some people just see things that way... It can't be helped lol.

[Panda]

I'd like to have a romance that does the whole "no sex until marriage" mindset. DAI was the first game since KOTOR where in the romances premarital sex wasn't mandatory(not counting the chaste Sebastian). 

 

I don't think sex was mandatory in DAO either? Like companions do want it, but you can't at least continue romance even without having sex with them.

 

But I guess no sex until marriage would be good approach to take as well, not one I'd chose, but nice to have as option.

[DSiKn355]

I'd like to have a romance that does the whole "no sex until marriage" mindset. DAI was the first game since KOTOR where in the romances premarital sex wasn't mandatory(not counting the chaste Sebastian). 

I slept with Cassandra and I think Iron bull has sex too and so does Sera iirc

wait... They might all do lol

[DSiKn355]

I don't think sex was mandatory in DAO either? Like companions do want it, but you can't at least continue romance even without having sex with them.

 

But I guess no sex until marriage would be good approach to take as well, not one I'd chose, but nice to have as option.

 

Didn't you have sex to confirm your romance? Pretty sure you don't get any romance trophy until you sleep with your LI in DA:O

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think sex was mandatory in DAO either? Like companions do want it, but you can't at least continue romance even without having sex with them.

 

But I guess no sex until marriage would be good approach to take as well, not one I'd chose, but nice to have as option.

I've never seen how, and I've tried. 

 

Yeah, just as an option. But sadly Bioware seems to have no interest in doing it. 

 

I slept with Cassandra and I think Iron bull has sex too and so does Sera iirc

wait... They might all do lol

Josephine was purposefully written so the level of physical intimacy was ambiguous. 

[Panda]

Didn't you have sex to confirm your romance? Pretty sure you don't get any romance trophy until you sleep with your LI in DA:O

 

Oh you might be right. I just know that you can continue at least Zevran's romance without having sex even once.. but the trophies seem to be tied up with sex. Which is pretty akward.. but I guess you have to tie them to sth.

[DSiKn355]

 

Josephine was purposefully written so the level of physical intimacy was ambiguous. 

 

So only one ambiguously then and not actually set as no sex before marriage then?

 

So DA:I only has an option for it if you interpret it that way.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So only one ambiguously then and not actually set as no sex before marriage then?

 

So DA:I only has an option for it if you interpret it that way.

Yep.