I don't understand. What do you have against bisexual characters, to the point where you want bisexual love interests to have their bisexuality so inconspicuous that you can pretend they're straight? No amount of smiley faces is going to make that seem less prejudiced.
(This question is specifically directed at the people who have stated they feel that way, and I'm just too lazy to figure out how to quote)
I don't understand. What do you have against bisexual characters, to the point where you want bisexual love interests to have their bisexuality so inconspicuous that you can pretend they're straight? No amount of smiley faces is going to make that seem less prejudiced.
(This question is specifically directed at the people who have stated they feel that way, and I'm just too lazy to figure out how to quote)
I have nothing against bisexual characters. It's just that in DA2 and the sexually ambiguous LIs were just the only time in Bioware games I felt my sexuality was represented, but then Bioware pulled the rug out from under me with their confirmation. I never saw them as straight though, so don't know how much this was at me but felt like an explanation should be given.
I don't understand. What do you have against bisexual characters, to the point where you want bisexual love interests to have their bisexuality so inconspicuous that you can pretend they're straight? No amount of smiley faces is going to make that seem less prejudiced.
(This question is specifically directed at the people who have stated they feel that way, and I'm just too lazy to figure out how to quote)
It's not prejudice it's personal taste.
Like how I have a bi friend that I supported when she was still "in the closet" and went to gay clubs with her, even danced with gay men.
But at no time did it cross my mind to sleep with my friend or a gay man because that isn't my taste.
Some white girls I know are very friendly with black guys but will never sleep with one does that make them prejudice or racist?
No, it's just personal taste.
If I am aware that you will sleep with a man and a woman I mite feel put off by that as somewhere in my mind I aint 100% sure where I stand with you.
Like "Am I really something you desire? Will it work? or will you prefer a girlfriend that can relate better or understand you better because she is a woman?"
So when it comes to a game I am just personally put off with characters like Isabella that are openly bi.
I have nothing against you being bi, I just wouldn't go out with you is all lol.
And personally I don't like being forced and prefer choice to choose a straight female so if the topic of her being bi is never raised while playing the game as a male then that is fine by me, as I wont be playing as a woman anytime soon. 
I have nothing against bisexual characters. It's just that in DA2 and the sexually ambiguous LIs were just the only time in Bioware games I felt my sexuality was represented, but then Bioware pulled the rug out from under me with their confirmation. I never saw them as straight though, so don't know how much this was at me but felt like an explanation should be given.
Isn't bisexuality separate from demisexuality though? Couldn't Merrill still be bi-demisexual?
Isn't bisexuality separate from demisexuality though? Couldn't Merrill still be bi-demisexual?
Well Demisexual's are not set to bi, hetero or gay.
They just build love for those they share a close bond to which isn't restricted to male or female as far as I know
There is actually different types of demisexuality, but it's not too hard to figure out. Romance or romantic feelings doesn't automatically lead to sex.
Hetero-romantic: You're can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the opposite sex.
Bi-romantic: You're can develop deep romantic feelings for both sexes.
Gay/Lesbian-romantic: You can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the same sex.
They aren't bisexual, any more than every average person with a sex drive is bisexual.
For DA:I, I've been supportive of a bi-romantic demisexual for the next game. I know the writers haven't talked about demisexuality specifically, but I think it's because they might not have heard of demisexuality. I didn't until about a year ago, and I know I'm not alone. So I'm not going to condemn the writing team for something that they might not know about. Merrill wasn't asexual, as I've talked to ace posters that have been married a long time and still don't have a sex drive. Despite how much their love their spouses. Yes, some of them did have marriage troubles, but not as many as you might think.
Anyway, Merrill wasn't an asexual and the writers knew what that was. They called her bisexual, but she fits the description of a bi-romantic demisexual very well. I think, if the devs take the time to read Hana's thread, they will not only be willing, I think they would enjoy doing it. The current lead writer did say he was interested in doing an asexual romance, and I think demisexuality would be a great place for BioWare to go. 
There is actually different types of demisexuality, but it's not too hard to figure out. Romance or romantic feelings doesn't automatically lead to sex.
Hetero-romantic: You're can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the opposite sex.
Bi-romantic: You're can develop deep romantic feelings for both sexes.
Gay/Lesbian-romantic: You can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the same sex.
They aren't bisexual, any more than every average person with a sex drive is bisexual.
For DA:I, I've been supportive of a bi-romantic demisexual for the next game. I know the writers haven't talked about demisexuality specifically, but I think it's because they might not have heard of demisexuality. I didn't until about a year ago, and I know I'm not alone. So I'm not going to condemn the writing team for something that they might not know about. Merrill wasn't asexual, as I've talked to ace posters that have been married a long time and still don't have a sex drive. Despite how much their love their spouses. Yes, some of them did have marriage troubles, but not as many as you might think.
Anyway, Merrill wasn't an asexual and the writers knew what that was. They called her bisexual, but she fits the description of a bi-romantic demisexual very well. I think, if the devs take the time to read Hana's thread, they will not only be willing, I think they would enjoy doing it. The current lead writer did say he was interested in doing an asexual romance, and I think demisexuality would be a great place for BioWare to go.
Thanks for some clarifications. I hadn't heard of it until I read Hanako's thread. I guess I'm still a little confused though. Are you saying that I was wrong to call Merrill bi-demisexual?
Thanks for some clarifications. I hadn't heard of it until I read Hanako's thread. I guess I'm still a little confused though. Are you saying that I was wrong to call Merrill bi-demisexual?
There's been some people who have done hybrid sexualities like that, like for example demibisexual or aheterosexual.
It depends on how one views the sexuality spectrum I guess.
I know the writers haven't talked about demisexuality specifically, but I think it's because they might not have heard of demisexuality.
Mike Laidlaw answered a tweet that said he doesn't know what it is a couple days ago.
Thanks for some clarifications. I hadn't heard of it until I read Hanako's thread. I guess I'm still a little confused though. Are you saying that I was wrong to call Merrill bi-demisexual?
I honestly don't think so. That sounds about right, and less of a mouthful than "bi-romantic demisexual." 
@Hana: I thought I caught that. Hey, they might not know what it is, but he seemed willing to learn. You know I'm behind your idea 100% and anyone that doesn't like it can kiss my tush.
There is actually different types of demisexuality, but it's not too hard to figure out. Romance or romantic feelings doesn't automatically lead to sex.
Hetero-romantic: You're can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the opposite sex.
Bi-romantic: You're can develop deep romantic feelings for both sexes.
Gay/Lesbian-romantic: You can only develop deep romantic feelings for members of the same sex.
They aren't bisexual, any more than every average person with a sex drive is bisexual.
I disagree as you wouldn't romance someone you are not attracted to.
And concerning the labels (bi/hetero/gay) IF you are a certain type you are aware of this "attraction" to the gender/s that you like beforehand which makes you gay, hetero or bi.
But a demisexual only feels attraction once that bond is formed and it is not specific to a gender.
So I would say the natural type (if you want to call it that) of demisexual would be bi as they are open to feel attracted to any gender once that bond is formed.
Quote:
"In general, demisexuals are not sexually attracted to anyone of any gender; however, when a demisexual is emotionally connected to someone else (whether the feelings are romantic love or deep friendship), the demisexual experiences sexual attraction and desire, but only towards the specific partner or partners."
That's my understanding anyway.
I think tags like "Demi-heterosexual" are only used after the fact as no-one knows what gender the demisexual will end up with as it all comes down to forming that bond which then leads to sexual attraction which is not set to a specific gender.
There's been some people who have done hybrid sexualities like that, like for example demibisexual or aheterosexual.
It depends on how one views the sexuality spectrum I guess.
Mike Laidlaw answered a tweet that said he doesn't know what it is a couple days ago.
Just out of curiosity, what would an aheterosexual be? A hetero-romantic asexual? A person who is asexual only with the opposite gender (gay)? Either one seems redundant but I may not have guessed the answer correctly.
I honestly don't think so. That sounds about right, and less of a mouthful than "bi-romantic demisexual."
@Hana: I thought I caught that. Hey, they might not know what it is, but he seemed willing to learn. You know I'm behind your idea 100% and anyone that doesn't like it can kiss my tush.
Thanks Well, that confirms what I already knew: The devs really don't get any information from the forums 
I think they should have a demisexual romance too. Mix things up a little.
I disagree as you wouldn't romance someone you are not attracted to.
That's a fallacy. Asexual people can still have romantic tendencies, so of course someone can want to romance someone they might not be sexually attracted to. Likewise, demisexuals can want romance before they feel attraction to someone, I would assume. Either way, being demisexual doesn't mean you'll be attracted to both sexes once a bond is formed. Some will, and some will only be attracted to one sex. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. I hate to be wrong about stuff like this because I know how it feels when people don't understand your sexuality etc.
(Bear in mind, I'm only talking about sexual orientation, not gender identity, which is a different kettle of fish altogether).
The thing is, and I don't want to seem insensitive saying this, before participating in this forum, I didn't have any idea demisexuality existed. And I like to think that I'm as liberal-minded as they come. Granted, I knew that sexuality is a spectrum and people should be respected for whatever orientation they most identify with.
Another thing is that there are individuals who could identify as demisexual, but don't know it because they're just not exactly aware themselves. They probably just assume themselves to be questioning and have low sex drives, at least. So I think that there should be more people who are self-aware and identify as demisexual making themselves heard, before that aspect of sexuality could be written well with a degree of respect and sensitivity. More people are now aware of what asexuality means and what that entails for a person who identifies as such, when in the past, it was very probably rare to hear of such thing. So it's probably only a matter of time until demisexuality is put more to the forefront.
However, as context is crucial, I see the similar unfortunate implications people would assume for demisexual characters as they would for bisexual characters. That people would misconstrue it as "oh, he was just experimenting, he's actually gay" or "oh, she's really straight, she was just confused". And that was what the problem was with DA2- that people assume heterosexuality or homosexuality for any of the four base-game romances, when they were really, in actuality, as confirmed by the writers, they were neither homosexual nor heterosexual. You don't want people to assume you're heterosexual when you're in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, when you're really bisexual. And I can only assume that would be the same for demisexual people in real life (assume being a keyword here, though).
And so for someone who has never known or heard of the concept of demisexuality before, that would be hard to write in- at least respectfully. So they need to be made aware- and the more people who say so, the better. But, there are still writers (or people in general) trying to grasp the idea of bisexuality and are still wrestling with the prejudice that just because the "selection pool is doubly wider" doesn't determine their ability/inability to remain faithful.
Anyway, there was a companion like Merrill, so surely they could do it again... but how they write them and how they put that sexual orientation in context, we shall see.
However, as context is crucial, I see the similar unfortunate implications people would assume for demisexual characters as they would for bisexual characters. That people would misconstrue it as "oh, he was just experimenting, he's actually gay" or "oh, she's really straight, she was just confused". And that was what the problem was with DA2- that people assume heterosexuality or homosexuality for any of the four base-game romances, when they were really, in actuality, as confirmed by the writers, they were neither homosexual nor heterosexual. You don't want people to assume you're heterosexual when you're in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, when you're really bisexual. And I can only assume that would be the same for demisexual people in real life.
I love this entire post, but particularly this part here. You made me think, which always nets a like from me. That is something that I should have thought about, and as a bisexual woman, I feel kinda silly for not considering it. I've been subject to that my own life, so I should have considered it. Thank you very much for the food for thought. 
Another thing is that there are individuals who could identify as demisexual, but don't know it because they're just not exactly aware themselves. They probably just assume themselves to be questioning and have low sex drives, at least. So I think that there should be more people who are self-aware and identify as demisexual making themselves heard, before that aspect of sexuality could be written well with a degree of respect and sensitivity. More people are now aware of what asexuality means and what that entails for a person who identifies as such, when in the past, it was very probably rare to hear of such thing. So it's probably only a matter of time until demisexuality is put more to the forefront.
Great post, but I wanted to echo this part in particular I wish there was more exploration of these things in school. It's very true that some people who would identify as certain things may not find out about those things for a long time. People who wouldn't identify as those things may have more trouble accepting those people because they don't know about these things. Both are bad, and I hope this becomes basic education as we move forward. And by this, I mean how everyone is different and that's okay. It's great, in fact. Hope that made sense, I feel like I phrased it poorly.
That's a fallacy. Asexual people can still have romantic tendencies, so of course someone can want to romance someone they might not be sexually attracted to. Likewise, demisexuals can want romance before they feel attraction to someone, I would assume. Either way, being demisexual doesn't mean you'll be attracted to both sexes once a bond is formed. Some will, and some will only be attracted to one sex. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. I hate to be wrong about stuff like this because I know how it feels when people don't understand your sexuality etc.
You are trying to use asexual as a demisexual which isn't right.
i mean by what you are saying if someone asked me right now "Is there anyone you fancy?" and I said "no" does that make me an asexual at that given moment?
Of course not.
Demisexual's are not asexuals so it doesn't work the same way so using an asexual as an example is wrong I believe.
I love this entire post, but particularly this part here. You made me think, which always nets a like from me. That is something that I should have thought about, and as a bisexual woman, I feel kinda silly for not considering it. I've been subject to that my own life, so I should have considered it. Thank you very much for the food for thought.
I'm just sorry that bisexual people (and by extension, people who don't neatly go under the monosexual labels of heterosexuality and homosexuality) go through some shitty preconceived notions made by both heterosexual people as well as those from the LGBTQ community (I mean, what does the 'b' stand for? Bananas?). "Oh, that man is bisexual- can't trust him to be in a relationship and have any sense of fidelity." "Oh, she's bisexual- you know what that means? Threesome, anyone?" And that bleeds over onto stories and fictional characters- we're not talking Bioware games, here, but stories in general. I've kind of lost track of how many times I've come across the "Depraved Bisexual" trope. Good thing in Dragon Age, we've got characters like Leliana and Josephine, so there's this wider breadth of characters who are written as bisexual, when compared to other stories out there.
I'm just sorry that bisexual people (and by extension, people who don't neatly go under the monosexual labels of heterosexuality and homosexuality) go through some shitty preconceived notions made by both heterosexual people as well as those from the LGBTQ community (I mean, what does the 'b' stand for? Bananas?). "Oh, that man is bisexual- can't trust him to be in a relationship and have any sense of fidelity." "Oh, she's bisexual- you know what that means? Threesome, anyone?" And that bleeds over onto stories and fictional characters- we're not talking Bioware games, here, but stories in general. I've kind of lost track of how many times I've come across the "Depraved Bisexual" trope. Good thing in Dragon Age, we've got characters like Leliana and Josephine, so there's this wider breadth of characters who are written as bisexual, when compared to other stories out there.
It's posts like this that make me realize why I come back to the forums. Despite some of the, er, less than friendly folks around here.
You are trying to use asexual as a demisexual which isn't right.
i mean by what you are saying if someone asked me right now "Is there anyone you fancy?" and I said "no" does that make me an asexual at that given moment?
Of course not.
Demisexual's are not asexuals so it doesn't work the same way so using an asexual as an example is wrong I believe.
I wasn't trying to equate them, only highlight a similarity for an explanation. The similarity being that neither would need to feel sexual attraction upon entering a romantic relationship, and the explanation being that there are indeed people who would want to romance someone they aren't sexually attracted to. Does that make sense?
It's posts like this that make me realize why I come back to the forums. Despite some of the, er, less than friendly folks around here.
This place is a haven for me. There are idiots here, like everywhere, but so much fewer. On the opposite end, you don't just have a bunch of neutral people, but a higher-than-average number of supportive ones. Yay! High-five to all of those people.
This place is a haven for me. There are idiots here, like everywhere, but so much fewer. On the opposite end, you don't just have a bunch of neutral people, but a higher-than-average number of supportive ones. Yay! High-five to all of those people.
Back at ya lady.
I wasn't trying to equate them, only highlight a similarity for an explanation. The similarity being that neither would need to feel sexual attraction upon entering a romantic relationship, and the explanation being that there are indeed people who would want to romance someone they aren't sexually attracted to. Does that make sense?
Yes I understand what your saying.
It's like when I was young and I would be in love with a girl but then put her in this mental bubble of purity in which there could never be any kind of sexual act and she couldn't possibly think of wanting to do such things as it would "spoil" her lol.
That kind of thing right?
No, they weren't "technically straight" just because you can't play as both a male and female in the same playthrough. That's not how bisexuality works. A bisexual woman married to a man isn't "technically straight". Similarly, a bisexual romance with an opposite sex PC isn't "technically straight".
This is how it works in real life, not in DA2 (and I was talking only about DA2). We have vast imnprovements in DA:I, that's great and I really appreciate them, but in DA2 sexuality of characters seemed to be "cut off" their personality. They were available as romance options for both sexes, but it doesn't make them necessarily bisexual. Anders is proof - if he was so bisexual, why would he haven't mention Karl as his lover to femHawke? I was just saying, that in DA2 it was up to player and his/her preferences. For me, Fenris was straight (so yes, I found a clearly straight oprion in DA2), for someone else, he was gay and for the other one he was bisexual.
We have a nice saying, I try to loosely translate "to myself I judge yourself" - and it applies every day and every time... but unfortunately often in the wrong way...
@Hana: I thought I caught that. Hey, they might not know what it is, but he seemed willing to learn. You know I'm behind your idea 100% and anyone that doesn't like it can kiss my tush.
Yeah, he was at least not dismissive of it.
There is also the writer Sylvia, who wrote Josephine in DAI, who when asked about if it was alright to see Josephine as abisexual or demibisexual said it was completely fine for people to see her as asexual or demisexual as well as bisexual. So it's headcanon, but writer-accepted headcanon.
Just out of curiosity, what would an aheterosexual be? A hetero-romantic asexual? A person who is asexual only with the opposite gender (gay)? Either one seems redundant but I may not have guessed the answer correctly.
If the person in question was a man, they would be someone who is attracted to a woman but isn't attracted to them sexually. Or to use the Primary Attraction/Secondary Attraction/Primary Desire/Secondary Desire model, they would only feel Secondary Sexual Desire for that woman, as in would only desire to have sex for reasons like wanting her to feel good, procreation, etc.
Not this again. Edit #2: This isn't directed at Hana's post.
The writers had mentioned that, for whatever reason, Anders would be not be comfortable with telling a Fem Hawke about Karl. It was dumb, but that's the reason they gave. Ladies such as myself were not only quick to point out how stupid that was, but that it was adding to bi-erasure. The idea that we don't exist because we're not gay or straight. DG himself later admitted that he wouldn't have done that again.
All of the LIs in DA2 are bisexual. Period, full stop. You can ignore WoG if you wish, and your headcanon is your own. However, that is not what the DA team thinks, and in fact, has stated repeatedly that since they have more resources for romances, they aren't going back to that system again. It's time to accept this and move on.
Again, there is no playersexuality. I think that some people find it soooo hard to believe that bisexuals don't always talk about being attracted to the same sex. Please, stop this. Seriously, stop this. It's a fallacy that actually happens in real life, and the last thing any LGBT+ DA fan needs is someone insisting on this bit of ignorance. "Well, if I date a bisexual woman, then they are really straight to me!" Yes, I have heard that directly. "If a character is bisexual and doesn't announce it, then they are gay or straight depending upon the player." This not true.
Besides, Fenris being bi and not straight or gay shouldn't affect your judgement. Also, I don't know why it would be a big deal that he is bi. Did you enjoy the romance? Did you like the character? Then why can't someone accept that Fenris is bisexual? We can be loyal just like anyone else. We don't all enjoy a lot of sex. We don't have the highest rates of STDs (that belongs to the aging Baby Boomers in retirement communities.) Why on earth does it matter so much if he was gay or straight? I liked characters like Fenris, Josie and Merrill. I see characters more like 'Bela and Bull all the time. It was nice having bisexuals that didn't constantly need to reassure the audience that they weren't straight.
Yes, it was your preferences. You were the straight, gay, lesbian or bisexual character. You did not magically change their sexuality by rolling such a character. They were always bisexual.
Secondly, most bisexuals don't go around shouting to the heavens, "I like both genders!" Not all bisexuals talk much about their previous romantic relationships with the same sex. Some of them don't because they don't like being told, "Oh, so you were into the same sex, but now you're into me. You're straight now, because you fell in love with someone of the opposite sex." Or vice versa.
Folks need to accept that there is no such thing as playersexuality. That the writers, including Mike Laidlaw, hate the term and it didn't exist for them. They intended to be like the real world, in the sense that some bisexuals are very open like Bela, less sexually active but still openly bisexual characters like Leliana, and others are much closer to characters like Fenris and Merrill.
And anyone that thinks it wasn't completely obvious that Leliana was bisexual definitely ignored most of her conversations and skipped her personal quest.
I've known men that were bisexual that weren't too dissimilar than Fenris when it came to not talking about their sexuality. I don't know why this is so hard to accept. It's right up there with, "Oh, you're actually gay/straight. Bisexuality is a phase, but when you meet the right man/woman, you'll be gay/straight."
It's not just in our world. The writers have stated that, whether or not some folks don't like it, or refuse to accept it, they never intended playersexuality. I'm asking anyone that really buys into the playersexuality crap to please stop. My sexual identity isn't a game mechanic, and just because all LIs were bisexual in one game doesn't change that fact.
Edit: Anders relationship with Karl got added to the official DA timeline.
Not this again...
Well you absolutely didn't understand what I was trying to say... again. But ok. I am used to it, it is hard to express exactly what I want in language which lacks so many expressions I am used to use Let's move on
I haven't read about them from writers - thanks for clarification. It was very unlucky decision in DA2, at least we agree on that.
I don't mind what are their preferences, I am fine with romancing bisexual - but I understand those who aren't - and it is their right no matter what others think. And you have to accept, that there are players who just would like more straight options like Cass or Cullen. That is all...
And as for "real life sexuality" - I am not saying you are straight because you are married to a man. I am not saying you "erased" who you are by the wedding day. That's nonsense. You know who you are and that's all that matters, no? Or you have a feeling you have to somewhat "justify" yourself? I know you had to overcome many difficulties in your life, that you have met a lot of thickheaded people, but maybe you should stop kicking around you... no one here is "judging" or mocking you or your sexual preferences 
We are just talking, right?
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