1591 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

First of all.... I think you have been the most civil person and understanding that I have spoken to on here so thank you lol.

 

I genuinely try to be civil and logical, so I'm glad it's appreciated.  I've also been accused at times of being condescending, so I'm glad it's not coming off that way because it's not my intention.

 

Like I said about mixed race characters/couples. It just doesn't happen unless it is on their "white supremacist" terms.( don't be alarmed now people lol)

If we look at slavery times it was ok for the white guy to sleep with the black woman right? But a black man could never do the same right?

Then we have your Vivienne x Bastian example which still follows this trend. But when will we see a black man with a white woman?

 

Anyone remember the reaction in the US to the Cheerios advert with the mixed race child?

That is how bad it is for mixed race people like me to be recognized as "acceptable" lol.

 

And me waiting for mixed race relationships and options just won't happen in my lifetime so at least you folks of the LGBTQ have it better than some lol

 

I know the mixed race thing is slightly OT, but I think it's a more interesting conversation, so I'm happy to continue on that line of thinking for a bit.  OP, feel free to tell me (us?) to get back on topic if we stray too far.

 

I agree that white man/black woman is more common and has it's origins back to a white dominance that comes from slavery.  I totally see that.

 

I'm trying to think of examples of black men with white women in any Bioware games and the only one that I can think of is Master Dennett (the horsemaster in the Hinterlands) and his wife in DA: I.  I'm sure that there are others, but that's the only one that's coming to my mind (which actually eluded me earlier).

 

I will say that represention for mixed race couples is about the same as gay and lesbian couples, though.  Outside of the PC, I can only think of a very small number (slightly higher than mixed race couples, but not by much) of NPCs that are in gay and lesbian relationships.  However, there is a much greater opportunity to create your own mixed race couple with the PCs since you can do that in every single LI in every single game, but there are only a small percentage of gay/lesbian PC options out there. 

 

I'd like to see both sides get more representation where they need it:  more mixed race NPC couples and more gay/lesbian LI options. 

[carlo angelo]

Obviously it is my perogative, as always the case, but the point was, can I do without being met with accusations of bigotry and such from people such as yourself?

That depends. Why would that matter to you? I just think it's funny to dislike someone less because their sexuality doesn't resonate with yours. But that's your call to make.

[daveliam]

Understandable. I do see that.

To rephrase, it's acceptable for me to appreciate straight male characters more, yes?

 

Yes.  I think that's acceptable.  It's only natural to appreciate characters that speak to you more.  And for many people, one's sexuality is a factor that allows that to happen. 

 

For example, when Kaidan was revealed to be bisexual in ME3, it made me like him more because I could understand some of his motivations better and I think it added an interesting depth to his character that wasn't there for me earlier.  I still liked him both ways, but I liked him better when I knew he was bisexual.

 

That's very different, to me, than someone saying, "I liked Kaidan less because he's bisexual because I am not interested in male/male romances."

[DSiKn355]

I genuinely try to be civil and logical, so I'm glad it's appreciated.  I've also been accused at times of being condescending, so I'm glad it's not coming off that way because it's not my intention.

 

 

I know the mixed race thing is slightly OT, but I think it's a more interesting conversation, so I'm happy to continue on that line of thinking for a bit.  OP, feel free to tell me (us?) to get back on topic if we stray too far.

 

I agree that white man/black woman is more common and has it's origins back to a white dominance that comes from slavery.  I totally see that.

 

I'm trying to think of examples of black men with white women in any Bioware games and the only one that I can think of is Master Dennett (the horsemaster in the Hinterlands) and his wife in DA: I.  I'm sure that there are others, but that's the only one that's coming to my mind (which actually eluded me earlier).

 

I will say that represention for mixed race couples is about the same as gay and lesbian couples, though.  Outside of the PC, I can only think of a very small number (slightly higher than mixed race couples, but not by much) of NPCs that are in gay and lesbian relationships.  However, there is a much greater opportunity to create your own mixed race couple with the PCs since you can do that in every single LI in every single game, but there are only a small percentage of gay/lesbian PC options out there. 

 

I'd like to see both sides get more representation where they need it:  more mixed race NPC couples and more gay/lesbian LI options. 

 

Well you have been just fine my friend

 

Well the mixed race thing is still kinda on topic as its still romance related unless on topic only consists of romance sexuality and not race?

 

Yeah Master Dennet is probably the only one I can think of too.

 

Yeah I guess the option is there to create mixed race couples which are black male and white female (Leliana,Morrigan,Ashley,Miranda,Cassandra) over the course of the 6 games I have played (DA,ME). But being able to have a mixed race heritage would be nice too but I would probably have to just headcanon that tbh lol.

 

I would like to see more mixed race species in general as I think a mixed Elf Qunari with the Dalish tribal markings would look awesome.

Or a mixed ELf Dwarf would look kinda similar to a goblin lol.

 

It would be interesting and would personally make me happy to see mixed races in general more accepted on a whole.

 

I was kinda upset my dalish elf warden and Morrigan's child had no elf features like the mixed race child in DA2 (let alone any colour lol) but oh well.

[DSiKn355]

Cassandra's a woman?!?!!?!?  But have you seen that jawline.......?

 

 

Two words...

 

Minnie Driver

 

Spoiler

 

 

Lmao

[WikipediaBrown]

 

It would be interesting and would personally make me happy to see mixed races in general more accepted on a whole.

 

I was kinda upset my dalish elf warden and Morrigan's child had no elf features like the mixed race child in DA2 (let alone any colour lol) but oh well.

 

I'm biracial too so I can understand what you are saying, but Thedas is not the real world. I've not seen any indication that people are treated any differently for their skin color there and I would prefer it remains that way. I do not want to see overwrought storylines about people's families rejecting them for their interracial luuuuuv.

 

In Inquisition there is one white man/black woman couple and one black man/white woman couple, so I'm not sure why you say that is more common? I would expect to see more mixed race couples if the game was set in Rivain or nearby areas, so maybe you will see more in the future. 

 

I read somewhere that the elf/human child in DA2 was not supposed to look "elfy" it was an oversight and that half elves were supposed to look fully human like Alistair. 

[DSiKn355]

I'm biracial too so I can understand what you are saying, but Thedas is not the real world. I've not seen any indication that people are treated any differently for their skin color there and I would prefer it remains that way. I do not want to see overwrought storylines about people's families rejecting them for their interracial luuuuuv.

 

In Inquisition there is one white man/black woman couple and one black man/white woman couple, so I'm not sure why you say that is more common? I would expect to see more mixed race couples if the game was set in Rivain or nearby areas, so maybe you will see more in the future. 

 

I read somewhere that the elf/human child in DA2 was not supposed to look "elfy" it was an oversight and that half elves were supposed to look fully human like Alistair. 

 

1. "I do not want to see overwrought storylines about people's families rejecting them for their interracial luuuuuv." Is NOT what I said or asked for lol.

 

2. "I would expect to see more mixed race couples if the game was set in Rivain or nearby areas, so maybe you will see more in the future." Possibly maybe.

 

3. "I read somewhere..." Doesn't matter. It's what we got that matters.That is the visual we have for that world's mixed elf and human race.

[WikipediaBrown]

1. "I do not want to see overwrought storylines about people's families rejecting them for their interracial luuuuuv." Is NOT what I said or asked for lol.

 

2. "I would expect to see more mixed race couples if the game was set in Rivain or nearby areas, so maybe you will see more in the future." Possibly maybe.

 

3. "I read somewhere..." Doesn't matter. It's what we got that matters.That is the visual we have for that world's mixed elf and human race.

 

http://raptr.com/Bio...c39a86d6b4051e3

 

Found the Raptr Q&A with Bioware about that if you are curious. 

[Felya87]

 

3. "I read somewhere..." Doesn't matter. It's what we got that matters.That is the visual we have for that world's mixed elf and human race.

 

The writers said it was an oversight. All others characters that have one elven parents are full humans. Alistair, Michel, (probably) Slim Couldry. And in Masked Empire is described even better.

[DSiKn355]

http://raptr.com/Bio...c39a86d6b4051e3

 

Found the Raptr Q&A with Bioware about that if you are curious. 

 

 

The writers said it was an oversight. All others characters that have one elven parents are full humans. Alistair, Michel, (probably) Slim Couldry. And in Masked Empire is described even better.

 

I see so that elf mage Fiona that I met in Orlais is Alistair's mother.

 

I guess that one boy was a mistake on their part then?

[Felya87]

I see so that elf mage Fiona that I met in Orlais is Alistair's mother.

 

I guess that one boy was a mistake on their part then?

 

Yes. He came out with bigger eyes that it was intended, I guess. If you take away that particular, he is simply very similar to his father, who have a long face too.

[DSiKn355]

Yes. He came out with bigger eyes that it was intended, I guess. If you take away that particular, he is simply very similar to his father, who have a long face too.

 

He also had elf ears iirc

 

Or maybe not lol

[Felya87]

He also had elf ears iirc

 

not if you look at DA2 elven ears.

[Ilwerin]

As for black man and white woman - you forgot Anderson and Kahlee Sanders.

[DSiKn355]

As for black man and white woman - you forgot Anderson and Kahlee Sanders.

How true I totally forgot that cheers

[Felya87]

Actually, even if they are never seen together...Adaia and Cyrion, the City Elf parents in Origins. And Duncan was the son of a Fereldan and a Rivaini woman who lived in Orlais, if I remember right from The Calling.

[DSiKn355]

Actually, even if they are never seen together...Adaia and Cyrion, the City Elf parents in Origins. And Duncan was the son of a Fereldan and a Rivaini woman who lived in Orlais, if I remember right from The Calling.

How do you know that about the city elf if the parents were never seen?

Never read/played the calling. Is it set before origins or something?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How do you know that about the city elf if the parents were never seen?

Never read/played the calling. Is it set before origins or something?

You do see the City Elf's parents. 

 

The father you see in the base game, and the mom you see in the DLC Leliana's Song. 

 

The City Elf's mom Adaia:

 

The City Elf's dad Cyrion: 

[Felya87]

How do you know that about the city elf if the parents were never seen?

Never read/played the calling. Is it set before origins or something?

 

they where never seen together: Adaia was in the DLC Leliana's Song, and Cyrion in DAO, when he is a widow, since Adaia was killed by human guards years prior DAO.

 

The Calling is the second book of the DA serie, and talk of king Maric (Alistair's father), the Architect, Fiona and Duncan.

[DSiKn355]

You do see the City Elf's parents. 

 

The father you see in the base game, and the mom you see in the DLC Leliana's Song. 

 

The City Elf's mom Adaia:

 

 

The City Elf's dad Cyrion: 

 

 

 

they where never seen together: Adaia was in the DLC Leliana's Song, and Cyrion in DAO, when he is a widow, since Adaia was killed by human guards years prior DAO.

 

The Calling is the second book of the DA serie, and talk of king Maric (Alistair's father), the Architect, Fiona and Duncan.

 

I see thank you very much the both of you.

 

I have never read a book or comic pertaining to the DA series or ME series.

just dunno where to find them lol.

 

Are there audiobooks uploaded to youtube does anyone know?

[Felya87]

I see thank you very much the both of you.

 

I have never read a book or comic pertaining to the DA series or ME series.

just dunno where to find them lol.

 

Are there audiobooks uploaded to youtube does anyone know?

 

The books are easy to find. I found my copies in a library and on Amazon. I have no idea for audiobooks...

[Grieving Natashina]

It's kinda off topic, but for those that might go looking for the stuff DG said on his old tumblr blog, try here:

 

http://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/

 

For the article about Anders, go here:

 

http://the-gaider-ar...tions-on-anders

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

That's a pretty terrible argument.  Yes, it's reality and 'to be expected'.  But that doesn't mean that people who aren't in the majority group should be expected to just "roll with it".  In fact, if anything, the fact that it's just played off as 'expected' by the majority is exactly why people in the minority should challenge it to some extent.

 

 

I agree that I'd like to see more mixed race human couples in DA.  It's not uncommon to see in Mass Effect, but there aren't that many that I can think of off the top of my head in DA.  Outside of Vivienne and Bastien, obviously. 

 

 

 

While you might not understand the writer's intention while experiencing it the first time, it doesn't negate that intention altogether.  Particularly when they make that intention public.  You can choose to ignore any clarifications on intention if you choose to, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist and are, in fact, reality.  In this case, you might have perceived Anders as straight, but he was always bisexual.  Perception is not, in fact, reality when it comes to situations like this.

 

 

I have seen a ton of complaints about Steve and Kaidan in ME 3 as well.  Neither of them have 'forced' rivalry points/consequences.

 

I think it's interesting to look at the trends across the characters.  There have only been 8 gay or bisexual male LI's in Bioware games ever.  (To put it in perspective, there are more than that just for straight men in SWTOR alone....)  Of those, there are regular complaints about how 'forced' the interactions with Steve, Kaidan, Dorian, and Anders are.  There are not those same complaints about Sky, Zevran, Bull, and Fenris.  To me, the difference is that the first group is the group that has the 'audacity' to openly flirt with male characters without being prompted by the PC.  That's the issue.  What's being 'forced' is simply the acknowledgement that there are men who are attracted to men.  We don't see the same complaints about Fenris because he doesn't talk about his sexuality at all if you don't romance him.  And you don't see the same complaints about Zevran because he actually asks for permission before he flirts with you (outside of the guys who agree to have a 'backrub' from him in their tent and then get up in arms that it's not just a 'backrub'......smh).

 

Basically, my point is this:  what's good for the straight goose is good for the gay goose (since ganders aren't really relevant in this metaphor.....).  If it's okay to have a bunch of lady characters flirt with male PCs without prompting, then it's okay for male characters to flirt with male PCs without prompting too.  The only people who should have problems with male characters flirting with their male PCs are the people who have problems with any character flirting with their PCs.  Otherwise, my advice to them is suck it up, buttercup.  At least that's my view on it. 

 

Actually a gander is a male goose

 

That aside, the problem with Ander's so-called flirt scene wasn't that he was firting with a dude, despite all the silly complaints about that. The problem was that you were given 2 options, which, to a new player, appear to be saying initiate a romance or </3 abandon all hope for a romance, shortly after meeting the charcter. Add on top  of that the fact that Anders was possessed and clearly off balance emotionally.

 

Contrac that to Isabela who also flirts with Hawke. She suggests Hawke meet her in the Hanged man for 'company'. A suggestion that was used in the demo as a clear ploy to sucker in hormonal teenaged boys.

 

To compare to Anders scene, Isabela would have given 2 options (and 2 options only): Giggity, see you there or </3 Get a way from me you skanky pirate.

 

Ander's scene would have been improved simply by giving the player more choice in responding. If they had, no-one would have complained.

 

 

That said, I don't really understand everyone's praise on how Bioware handles 'diversity'. They kind of suck at it. Plainly LBGT people were the flavour of the day for this game, which is fine, but they could have still had all that content and still had a more diverse world than what they did.

 

Funny thing is, everyone sees the game as reflecting the majority genetic makeup of America, which is great for Americans, but what about everyone else? A full third of the population of the planet is not represented, but hey, we have 2 gay characters! Look how awesome they are!!

 

So we have 2 gay, 2 bi characters, a scattered few references to LBGT issues. Great, but where are the asians? How many people in this entire thread have even brought this up? I'm guessing not many as Asians don't make any noise about it. Add a few few cameos of women in power, so no need to have very many women as any of the inner circle! One black character, one of each thedas race, and the rest are white dude(ette)s. Yeah real diverse Bioware (clap clap)

 

As for mixed race relationships, I don't see why this is even an issue. Are Americans really still so hung up on mixed race couples? I thought that went away in the 80's.As someone who is in a mixed race relationship, I really didn't notice, nor do I care if a game has mixed race couples in it. I did notice, however, that I can't make my wifes face in the CC due to it being pretty much impossible to make any character look like anything but Caucasian or African. (yes I've seen peoples attempts and was less than impressed.)

[BansheeOwnage]

 

I mean you can see how some feel about BI people "letting their selves be known beforehand" right?

Now imagine the response to a straight guy romancing what he believes to be a female and then it guts to the romance scene and he sees it's a guy....

Ouch.

I know we've moved past this, but I need to say, there is no way you could get to that point in a romance with Mae without learning she's transgender. So that's a non-issue. Also, I know you probably didn't mean it badly, but try to avoid phrasing like "It's a guy".

 

 

Guys, we're veering off course again:

 

Wow, sometimes I say that in my head, but I never knew it was actually a meme

 

So we have 2 gay, 2 bi characters, a scattered few references to LBGT issues. Great, but where are the asians? How many people in this entire thread have even brought this up? I'm guessing not many as Asians don't make any noise about it. Add a few few cameos of women in power, so no need to have very many women as any of the inner circle! One black character, one of each thedas race, and the rest are white dude(ette)s. Yeah real diverse Bioware (clap clap)

To be fair, as much as it's kind of annoying that there are so few women as companions in DA:I (and only one I like), it's the exception to the rule. All the other Bioware games I've played have been pretty equal when it comes to gender in your party.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

To be fair, as much as it's kind of annoying that there are so few women as companions in DA:I (and only one I like), it's the exception to the rule. All the other Bioware games I've played have been pretty equal when it comes to gender in your party.

This was DG's response to a post of mine about that:

 

http://forum.bioware...4#entry16479270

 

I'll just jump in and say this:

 

There seems to be quite the laser-like focus on party members. Understandable, perhaps, considering those are the characters with whom you spend a great deal of time...but if we're to talk in terms of representation I'm a bit uncertain why 5:4 would be awesome and 6:3 somehow equates to horribleness on our part. Naturally your mileage will vary, in terms of what you want to see, and I won't tell you what that should be.

 

We. however, approach the equation a little differently. We come up with roughly even numbers in our concepts, even across gender lines, across racial lines as well as across classes. We (as in the team, not just the writers) pick the concepts that we like the most, and while there's always a point where we discuss diversity, there are many points of diversity we have to consider. Class diversity is perhaps highest on the list (in terms of gameplay utility), along with a diversity of viewpoints and how they intersect with the story. Gender diversity is also considered, but when we look at it in terms of representation, we look at it in terms of representation across the entire story—not just in the party.

 

Considering Inquisition takes place in a world where many (if not most) of the world's power players are female (the ruler of Orlais, the head of the Chantry and the Circle of Magi, possibly the ruler of Ferelden and others...not to mention the many characters outside of the party with whom you will also be deeply involved. I can honestly say I don't think we're doing badly on that front, not enough to feel we should switch the gender of a character concept we like to hit an arbitary number in this one group of characters. It sounds like it might be easy to do, but that's never been how character concepts come to be--we're not just flipping switches on a variety of grids until we hit some perfect balance for every desire and then writing interesting stories.

 

If you disagree, and feel we've done poorly even short of seeing the rest of the cast, then so be it. I completely understand.

 

Insofar as the OP's desire for a Qunari female character—I hear you, believe me. Sometimes it seems like we can never fit enough awesome concepts in one game.